What translation, or versions of the bible do you like to use and why?

Silly Uncle Wayne

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Both NIV and ESV assume that the virgin talked about is the man's fiancée, but this is most likely, according to many commentaries, the wrong interpretation.

Most likely, the virgin talked about is the man's daughter. In ancient cultures, the father's approval is essential for marriage.

But NIV & ESV accommodate modern cultural sensibilities where the father's approval of the marriage is no longer relevant.

Considering these 3 translations, I encourage you to stick with the NKJV if you can tolerate its somewhat wooden language. It is more trustworthy.

And this is in addition to the manuscript issue that your friends addressed.
I'd use NET in preference to all where the translation notes are available, but if you are using commentaries the NKJV isn't necessary.
 
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Andrewn

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I'd use NET in preference to all where the translation notes are available, but if you are using commentaries the NKJV isn't necessary.
I have the NET, also, and appreciate very much the notes. I own a lot of different versions. All my adult life, I've been looking for the perfect translation and haven't decided on one.

Now, I mostly use the Old Jerusalem Bible (you can't buy it anywhere) for the OT and the Evangelical Heritage Bible for the NT. But I by no means to depend on their translations. I compare many translations online, as well as commentaries.

Do you mostly use the NET?
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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I have the NET, also, and appreciate very much the notes. I own a lot of different versions. All my adult life, I've been looking for the perfect translation and haven't decided on one.

Now, I mostly use the Old Jerusalem Bible (you can't buy it anywhere) for the OT and the Evangelical Heritage Bible for the NT. But I by no means to depend on their translations. I compare many translations online, as well as commentaries.

Do you mostly use the NET?
At the moment, though Have access to over 20 translations as well as an interlinear Greek and the NIV exhaustive concordance. NET for general reading, then a bunch of others for study (mostly ESV, NIV & CSB at the moment).
 
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Andrewn

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At the moment, though Have access to over 20 translations as well as an interlinear Greek and the NIV exhaustive concordance. NET for general reading, then a bunch of others for study (mostly ESV, NIV & CSB at the moment).
The problem with versions like NIV, and similar translations, is that they give the false impression the meaning of the passage is obvious and easy to understand, so one might not even bother to read commentaries. Take for example Joh 19:14:

NKJV 14 Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, “Behold your King!”

NIV 14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon. “Here is your king, ”Pilate said to the Jews.

NET 14 (Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover, about noon.) Pilate said to the Jewish leaders,“Look, here is your king!”

CSB 14 It was the preparation day for the Passover, and it was about noon.Then he told the Jews, “Here is your king!”

About noon is absolutely wrong!!!
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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The problem with versions like NIV, and similar translations, is that they give the false impression the meaning of the passage is obvious and easy to understand, so one might not even bother to read commentaries. Take for example Joh 19:14:

NKJV 14 Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, “Behold your King!”

NIV 14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon. “Here is your king, ”Pilate said to the Jews.

NET 14 (Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover, about noon.) Pilate said to the Jewish leaders,“Look, here is your king!”

CSB 14 It was the preparation day for the Passover, and it was about noon.Then he told the Jews, “Here is your king!”

About noon is absolutely wrong!!!
Why is about noon absolutely wrong? Surely it is approximately six hours after dawn on a spring day, which starts at 6:11 this weekend, which is using daylight saving, so 5:11 in real money. Which means the sixth hour is about 11:11, noon is a good enough approximation for people who have clocks, let alone those that don't.

Unless you find some significance in 'the sixth hour' it is more meaningful to say noon, which the sixth hour is indicating anyway.
 
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Andrewn

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Why is about noon absolutely wrong?
According to Joh 19:14 in NIV et al, Pilate sent the Lord to be crucified around noon.

According to Mar 15:25 in NIV et al, they crucified the Lord around 9 am.

Obviously, the Lord was sentenced to death _before_ He was crucified.

He could not have been sentenced to death at noon then crucified at 9 am.

Both statements cannot be true. So, which one is correct?

According to Mat 27:45; Mar 15:33; Luk 23:44, from noon onward, the sun stopped shining. Darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon.

Before darkness came, they had seized the Lord and took Him to Calvary, then tried to give Him sour wine, then took off his clothes, then crucified Him, then He talked w/ the Father, then talked w/ the repentant thief, then talked w/ his mother and John.

All this must have taken place before noon. So, which of the 2 statements is correct?

I'd say that the Lord was crucified around 9 am, as per Mark, and was sentenced to death by Pilate at a time before 9 am to allow for what took place after sentencing.

This does not mean that John's Gospel is wrong.
 
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Jared MacNeill

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Let’s stop fighting about time , for all we know their watches could have been broken!


The point of importance is Jesus was crucified by Pontius pilot, died ,was buried and rose again on the third day.

and I think we need to put more emphasis on the tomb. Because without the empty tomb the would be no victory over death
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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According to Joh 19:14 in NIV et al, Pilate sent the Lord to be crucified around noon.

According to Mar 15:25 in NIV et al, they crucified the Lord around 9 am.

Obviously, the Lord was sentenced to death _before_ He was crucified.

He could not have been sentenced to death at noon then crucified at 9 am.

Both statements cannot be true. So, which one is correct?

According to Mat 27:45; Mar 15:33; Luk 23:44, from noon onward, the sun stopped shining. Darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon.

Before darkness came, they had seized the Lord and took Him to Calvary, then tried to give Him sour wine, then took off his clothes, then crucified Him, then He talked w/ the Father, then talked w/ the repentant thief, then talked w/ his mother and John.

All this must have taken place before noon. So, which of the 2 statements is correct?

I'd say that the Lord was crucified around 9 am, as per Mark, and was sentenced to death by Pilate at a time before 9 am to allow for what took place after sentencing.

This does not mean that John's Gospel is wrong.
Oh, I see you are reconciling gospel accounts. However you don't get away with it by using the NKJV. The sixth hour is still awkward to explain in the light of what you have revealed.... since it refers to 'about noon' :)
 
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Andrewn

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Oh, I see you are reconciling gospel accounts. However you don't get away with it by using the NKJV. The sixth hour is still awkward to explain in the light of what you have revealed.... since it refers to 'about noon' :)
No, I don't get away with it by using the NKJV. But the NKJV translates the NT as it is written in Greek: Jesus was sentenced to death around the 6th hour according to John and was crucified around the 3rd hour according to Mark.

The issue can be easily reconciled when we notice that the Synoptics call Sea of Galilee is called Lake Tiberius in John. What does this have to do with anything?

The Synoptics were written earlier and to congregations with a lot of Jews. They used Jewish terminology. The 3rd hour for the Jews is 9 am, counting 3 hours from 6 am.

But John was written later, to mostly Greek congregations. The Romans counted the day from midnight, as we still do. So, the 6th hour in John's Gospel, when Jesus was sentenced to death, is 6 am, while the 6th hour in the Synoptics, when darkness came over the whole land, is 12 noon :).
 
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Jared MacNeill

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Oh, I see you are reconciling gospel accounts. However you don't get away with it by using the NKJV. The sixth hour is still awkward to explain in the light of what you have revealed.... since it refers to 'about noon' :)

No, I don't get away with it by using the NKJV. But the NKJV translates the NT as it is written in Greek: Jesus was sentenced to death around the 6th hour according to John and was crucified around the 3rd hour according to Mark.

The issue can be easily reconciled when we notice that the Synoptics call Sea of Galilee is called Lake Tiberius in John. What does this have to do with anything?

The Synoptics were written earlier and to congregations with a lot of Jews. They used Jewish terminology. The 3rd hour for the Jews is 9 am, counting 3 hours from 6 am.

But John was written later, to mostly Greek congregations. The Romans counted the day from midnight, as we still do. So, the 6th hour in John's Gospel, when Jesus was sentenced to death, is 6 am, while the 6th hour in the Synoptics, when darkness came over the whole land, is 12 noon :).

men! Listen we are supposed to lead by example here, not argue or fighting.

If a non believer who is searching for the answer was to stumble over this mess it might just be enough to completely discourage them from finding Christ!
 
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Andrewn

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men! Listen we are supposed to lead by example here, not argue or fighting.

If a non believer who is searching for the answer was to stumble over this mess it might just be enough to completely discourage them from finding Christ!
We're not arguing or fighting at all. We're having a friendly conversation and any seeker of truth should be interested in understanding how John's Gospel does _not_ contradict the Synoptics.

Only a person who is interested in proving that the Bible contradicts itself would be happy with modern translations of the discussed passage.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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According to Joh 19:14 in NIV et al, Pilate sent the Lord to be crucified around noon.

According to Mar 15:25 in NIV et al, they crucified the Lord around 9 am.

Obviously, the Lord was sentenced to death _before_ He was crucified.

He could not have been sentenced to death at noon then crucified at 9 am.

Both statements cannot be true. So, which one is correct?

According to Mat 27:45; Mar 15:33; Luk 23:44, from noon onward, the sun stopped shining. Darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon.

Before darkness came, they had seized the Lord and took Him to Calvary, then tried to give Him sour wine, then took off his clothes, then crucified Him, then He talked w/ the Father, then talked w/ the repentant thief, then talked w/ his mother and John.

All this must have taken place before noon. So, which of the 2 statements is correct?

I'd say that the Lord was crucified around 9 am, as per Mark, and was sentenced to death by Pilate at a time before 9 am to allow for what took place after sentencing.

This does not mean that John's Gospel is wrong.
Albert Barnes (1798-1870) wrote in his commentary on Mark,


Mark 15:25

And it was the third hour ... - In Joh_19:14 it is said, “And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour, etc. Much difficulty has been felt in reconciling these passages, and infidels have usually adduced them to prove that the evangelists have contradicted themselves. In reconciling them the following remarks may perhaps make the matter clear:

(1) The Jews divided both the night and the day into four equal parts of three hours each. See the notes at Mat_14:25. The first division of the day commenced at six o’clock in the morning, and ended at nine; the second commenced at nine and ended at twelve, etc. “The third” hour mentioned by Mark would therefore correspond with our nine o’clock; the “sixth” hour mentioned by John would correspond with our twelve, or noon.

(2) Mark professes to give the time accurately; John does not. He says “it was about the sixth hour,” without affirming that this was exactly the time.

(3) A mistake in “numbers” is easily made; and if it should he admitted that such an error had crept into the text here, it would be nothing more than has occurred in many ancient writings. It has been proved, moreover, that it was common not to write the “words” indicating numbers at “length,” but to use “letters.” The Greeks designated numbers by the letters of the alphabet, and this mode of computation is found in ancient manuscripts. For example, the Cambridge manuscript of the New Testament has in this very place in Mark, not the word “third” written at length, but the Greek letter gamma (γ), the usual notation for third. Now it is well known that it would be easy to mistake this for the Greek letter sigma (ς), the mark denoting “six.” An error of this kind in an early manuscript might be extensively propagated, and might have led to the present reading of the text. Such an error is actually known to exist in the “Chronicon” of Paschal, where Otho is said to have reigned ς, (six) months, whereas it is known that he reigned but three, and in this place, therefore, the γ, three, was mistaken for ς, six.

(4) There is some external authority for reading “third” in Joh_19:14. The Cambridge manuscript has this reading. Nonnus, who lived in the fifth century, says that this was the true reading (Wetstein). Peter of Alexandria, in a fragment concerning the Passover, as quoted by Usher, says, “It was the preparation of the Passover, and about the “third” hour, as,” he adds, “the most accurate copies of the Bible have it; and this was the handwriting of the evangelist (John), which is kept, by the grace of God, in his most holy church at Ephesus” (Mill). It is to be admitted, however, that no great reliance is to be placed on this account. That a mistake “might” have occurred in the early manuscripts is not improbable. No man can “prove” that it did “not” so occur, and so long as this cannot be proved, the passages should not be adduced as conclusive proof of contradiction.

After all, perhaps, without the supposition that there is any error in the text, the whole difficulty may be removed by the following statements:

(1) Calvary was “without” the walls of Jerusalem. It was a considerable distance from the place where Jesus was tried and condemned. Some time, more or less, would be occupied in going there, and in the preparatory measures for crucifying him.

(2) It is not necessary to understand “Mark” as saying that it was precisely nine o’clock, according to our expression. With the Jews it was six until seven; it was the third hour until the fourth commenced; it was the ninth until it was the tenth. They “included” in the “third” hour the whole time from the third to the fourth. The same mode they adopted in regard to their days. See the notes at Mat_12:40.

(3) It is not unduly pressing the matter to suppose that Mark spoke of the time when the process for crucifixion commenced - that is, when he was condemned - when they entered upon it - when they made the preparation. Between that and the time when he was taken “out” of Jerusalem to Mount Calvary, and when he was actually nailed to the tree, there is no improbability in supposing that there might have been an interval of more than an hour. Indeed, the presumption is that considerably more time than that would elapse.

(4) John does not profess, as has been remarked, to be strictly accurate. He says “it was about the sixth hour,” etc.

(5) Now suppose that John meant to indicate the time when he was “actually” suspended on the cross - that he spoke of the “crucifixion” denoting the “act of suspension,” as it struck “him” - and there is no difficulty. Any other two men - any witnesses - might give just such an account now. One man would speak of the time when the process for an execution commenced; another, perhaps, of the very “act” of the execution and would “both” speak of it in general terms, and say that a man was executed at such a time; and the circumstantial variation would “prove” that there was no collusion, no agreement to “impose” on a court - that they were honest witnesses. That is “proved” here.

(6) That this is the true account of the matter is clear from the evangelists themselves, and “especially from Mark.” The three first evangelists concur in stating that there was a remarkable “darkness” over the whole land from the “sixth” to the “ninth” hour, Mat_27:45; “Mar_15:33;” Luk_23:44. This fact - in which Mark concurs - would seem to indicate that “the actual crucifixion” continued only during that time - that he was, in fact, suspended at about the sixth hour, though the preparations for crucifying him had been going on (Mark) for two hours before. The fact that Mark Mar_15:33 mentions this darkness as commencing at the “sixth” and not at the “third” hour, is one of the circumstances undesignedly occurring that seems to signify that the crucifixion then had “actually” taken place, though the various arrangements for it Mar_15:25 had been going on from the “third” hour.

One thing is conclusively proved by this - that the evangelists did not “conspire together” to impose on the world. They are independent witnesses, and they were honest men; and the circumstance adverted to here is one that is allowed to be of great value in testimony in courts of justice - “circumstantial variation with essential agreement.”
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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Only a person who is interested in proving that the Bible contradicts itself would be happy with modern translations of the discussed passage.
Or someone who doesn't really care about so-called contradictions
 
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HIM

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I love the KJV and prefer translations from the Byzantine text. However Most often I use Greek and Hebrew Interlinears of the Holy Writ. Compiled with an extensive Lexicon collection to grasp an even deeper look into His Word.
 
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BPPLEE

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Different people prefer to use different bible translations as those which they find most appropriate for them. I realise that not everyone is necessarily going to agree with each other about there own personal likes, dislikes and doctrinal understandings, but please be nice to each other and allow each other to have our differences and respect those differences. I am a someone who uses a number of different bibles, but not always for any reasons, which might be all that obvious. Some of my bibles have cross references, or study aids, which I find helpful. Some are particular translations, which I like and there are other translations which I choose not to have as I even dislike certain translations.

I don't like translations where the translators have added their own doctrinal bias to them. I guess that some might even call me a bit old fashioned in my thinking and theology, but I still have quite a fair number of modern bible translations as well. I like the king james version, but I am not one of those, who is from the king james only persusion. I also like some literal translations, but not all are particularly enjoyable to read. Some of these literal versions may be considered by some as being technically advantageous, but I can find some of these very dry to use for just reading God's word. I need to be inspired by what I read and some translations just don't do that for me. So what are your preferred translations and why?

This does not need to be too theoretical. personal preferences and likes are dislikes are good enough. I hope the everyone will feel free to just be themselves and express their own feelings, if that's what feels right! Thanks.
Modern versions relied on the work of Westcott and Hort who preferred two corrupted documents over the majority of texts available therefore modern versions omitted many verses which they say were added because they are not in the oldest documents. But older isn't necessarily better when the oldest texts are corrupted. You can Google verses not in the NIV and find many examples. So for serious study I use the New King James version but if I'm just reading I often read the New Living Translation keeping in mind it's a paraphrase and checking the footnotes to see when something was omitted
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Modern versions relied on the work of Westcott and Hort who preferred two corrupted documents over the majority of texts available therefore modern versions omitted many verses which they say were added because they are not in the oldest documents. But older isn't necessarily better when the oldest texts are corrupted. You can Google verses not in the NIV and find many examples. So for serious study I use the New King James version but if I'm just reading I often read the New Living Translation keeping in mind it's a paraphrase and checking the footnotes to see when something was omitted
The New Testament in the so-called “modern versions” is translated from Greek texts that reflect the results of very technical textual studies that that were completed long after Westcott and Hort died.
 
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BPPLEE

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The New Testament in the so-called “modern versions” is translated from Greek texts that reflect the results of very technical textual studies that that were completed long after Westcott and Hort died.
And mostly agree with their work. They prefer the Alexandrian text type because they are older and they reject the majority of texts.
 
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BPPLEE

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The New Testament in the so-called “modern versions” is translated from Greek texts that reflect the results of very technical textual studies that that were completed long after Westcott and Hort died.

Most modern versions of the Bible are based on the Alexandrian manuscripts because they are the oldest. The experts say the Majority Text (the Byzantine type) are corrupted and these verses missing from the Alexandrian texts were added later to the Byzantine texts (the Majority). They say the Byzantine texts should not even be considered. But the evidence is that the Alexandrian texts are corrupt.

There remains a persistent bias against the Byzantine Text type in Critical Text advocates. Here’s Dan Wallace – arguably the most respected New Testament textual critic alive today – talking about one of our oldest manuscripts, the Codex Alexandrius.

“Codex Alexandrius is a very interesting manuscript in that in the Gospels, it’s a Byzantine text largely, which means it agrees with the majority of manuscripts most of the time. While as, in the rest of the New Testament, it is largely Alexandrian. These are the two most competing textual forms, textual families, text types if you want to call them that, that we have for our New Testament manuscripts. So when you get outside the Gospels, Alexandrius becomes very important manuscript.” – Dan Wallace

Source: YouTube. (Only 1:35 long, starting at about 0:53)



Please notice the casual dismissal of the Byzantine text type by one of the most respected textual critics of our age. I’m honestly not sure why it’s dismissed so easily. Codex Alexandrius is the third oldest (nearly) complete manuscript, dating from the early 400s. Why dismiss the Gospels just because they are a different text type?


We have 5000+ manuscripts of the New Testament, though many are smaller fragments. In the last ~140 years since the Westcott & Hort 1881 Critical Text, we’ve discovered Papyri from the 300s, 200s, and even a few from the 100s. Despite this, the Critical Text of the New Testament remains virtually unchanged from ~140 years ago. Because they prefer the Alexandrian text types.

The following is regarding the Alexandrian text type manuscripts.

However, the antiquity of these manuscripts is no indication of reliability because a prominent church father in Alexandria testified that manuscripts were already corrupt by the third century. Origen, the Alexandrian church father in the early third century, said:

“…the differences among the manuscripts [of the Gospels] have become great, either through the negligence of some copyists or through the perverse audacity of others; they either neglect to check over what they have transcribed, or, in the process of checking, they lengthen or shorten, as they please.”

( From Bruce Metzger, The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration, 3rd ed. (1991), pp. 151-152). (Bruce Metzger was one of the editors of the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament that is the basis for modern translations.)


Origen is of course speaking of the manuscripts of his location, Alexandria, Egypt. By an Alexandrian Church father’s own admission, manuscripts in Alexandria by 200 AD were already corrupt. Irenaeus in the 2nd century, though not in Alexandria, made a similar admission on the state of corruption among New Testament manuscripts. Daniel B. Wallace says, “Revelation was copied less often than any other book of the NT, and yet Irenaeus admits that it was already corrupted — within just a few decades of the writing of the Apocalypse.

There’s an argument to be made that the Alexandrian Text type was corrupted very early.

So the same argument they use against The Majority Text can be used against the Alexandrian Texts. Alexandria was the center for Gnosticism. Isn’t it more likely that scriptures were removed to align with their Gnostic heresy than that they were added later and copied to a majority of the texts? Does the majority mean anything?
 
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