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What think ye of Ezekiel's Temple?

David Kent

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Daniel 11:36-45 This powerful world ruler will do as he pleases, he will promote himself as god, Revelation 13:13-15, uttering terrible blasphemies. Things will go well for him until the time of wrath is completed. [The Great Tribulation of the Seven Trumpets and Seven Bowls] Near the end, the leader of a Southern confederation will attempt to attack him, so he storms out in full force, sweeping all before him, including the holy Land. He will take control of all Arabia and take their treasure. Then, alarmed by rumors from the North and East, he will hurriedly go back to Israel and camp in the valley of Megiddo, where he will meet his end. Daniel 7:11, Revelation 19:17-21

Daniel 11, a continuation of Daniel 10, and all part of Daniel's last prophecy. The background is the Greek kingdom from Alexander followed by the four kingdoms That succeeded him, tkingoms of his four generals. The prophecy concerns two of those kingdoms, the King of the North, that is Antioch, and the King of the South, Egypt. It follows those kingdoms up to verse 35 when it covers the beginning of the Roman influence in the Holy Land, the Romans then havingconquered Syria,
 
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claninja

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Wills are under probate until all the conditions are settled.
The conditions for the conferment of the New Covenant remain unfulfilled until all the Lord's faithful Christian people are living in all of the holy Land, as all of Jeremiah 30 and 31 attests.

Wills are enacted upon death. Thus Jesus' will became effective upon his death

Hebrews 9:16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to establish the death of the one who made it, because a will does not take effect until the one who made it has died; it cannot be executed while he is still alive.

Under the new covenant, which is the true reality, we now come to the true promise land, of which the earthly land of Israel was only a shadow.

Hebrews 11:16 Instead, they were longing for a better country, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Hebrews 12:22 Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem

Galatians 4:24-26 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.

So, again I will ask. If you can, please provide New testament scripture that shows earthly Israel is our promiseland and animal sacrifices will reinstate.
 
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David Kent

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Daniel 11:36-45 This powerful world ruler will do as he pleases, he will promote himself as god, Revelation 13:13-15, uttering terrible blasphemies. Things will go well for him until the time of wrath is completed. [The Great Tribulation of the Seven Trumpets and Seven Bowls] Near the end, the leader of a Southern confederation will attempt to attack him, so he storms out in full force, sweeping all before him, including the holy Land. He will take control of all Arabia and take their treasure. Then, alarmed by rumors from the North and East, he will hurriedly go back to Israel and camp in the valley of Megiddo, where he will meet his end. Daniel 7:11, Revelation 19:17-21

Daniel 11, a continuation of Daniel 10, and all part of Daniel's last prophecy. The background is the Greek kingdom from Alexander followed by the four kingdoms That succeeded him, tkingoms of his four generals. The prophecy concerns two of those kingdoms, the King of the North, that is Antioch, and the King of the South, Egypt. It follows those kingdoms up to verse 35 when it covers the beginning of the Roman influence in the Holy Land, the Romans then having conquered Syria became the King of the North.

The last Greek 'king' was Cleopatra and when she and Antony were defeated it was the end of the Greek kingdom. Verse 40, the time of the end, the end of the Greek kingdom, that Romans under Augustus, came like a whirlwind.

And then in chap 12: 1 we read:
  • 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book
Michael, the Lord Jesus, standing up for his People, and then we have the great tribulation, the same as in Matthew Mark and Luke when all Daniel's people, the Jewish Christians whose names were in the Book of Life, escaping the city according to the Lord's command.

No Jumping about in the prophecy it is an orderly history, so accurate that unbelievers and doubters have said Daniel must have been written after it.
 
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David Kent

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Can anyone tell me who fulfilled each of these six points that were determined, or who will fulfill them

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
1 to finish the transgression, and
2 to make an end of sins, and
3 to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
4 to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
5 to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
6 to anoint the most Holy.

Thanks

I didn't see any actual replies to my request, so I will ask agaiin and now give my answer.


Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
1 to finish the transgression, and
2 to make an end of sins, and
3 to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
4 to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
5 to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
6 to anoint the most Holy.

The were all fulfilled in the earthly ministry of Christ.
 
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David Kent

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Thus, the only alternative for interpreting the "temple of God" Paul was revealing the man of sin will sit in to play God, is that it will be a literal physical temple built in Jerusalem for the last days of this present world, in the generation that will see Christ's 2nd coming.
Again you are taking a verse out of context and putting it into the future when it has long past history. The generation was the generation that saw the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem, the generation that all the woes in Matthew 23 came on. Those who filled up the measures of their fathers, by cucfying their Messiah.
 
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ebedmelech

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Another blast of hot air!
I posted the facts of scripture. Many prophesies that clearly talk about a new Temple in Jerusalem.
A Temple to be built by the Lord's Christian people, then living in all of the holy Land.
You may think it's hot air...but let's just take one of those passages you used and point out the facts:

Jeremiah 17:24-26 Now, if you obey the Lord’s Commandments, then a ruler will again occupy David’s throne and Jerusalem will be inhabited forever. Then people will come bringing whole offerings, sacrifices as thank offerings to the Lord’s House.

This passage is taken out of context entirely. Anyone who reads the context would know this is not prophetic. It is a conditional text that give the people a choice, which is why God said "IF". He gave the people a choice through Jeremiah. At the time Jeremiah said this Solomon's temple was still standing.

The opposite of what God said through Jeremiah is in 17:27

27 But if you do not listen to Me to keep the sabbath day holy by not carrying a load and coming in through the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day, then I will kindle a fire in its gates and it will devour the palaces of Jerusalem and not be quenched.”’”


The result is God destroyed the temple, sent them into captivity, and made the land rest 70 years!!! Daniel prayed about that punishment in Daniel 9:1-14!!!
You, like most here, confuse the current situation, where we Christians are the Spiritual Temple of the Lord. This isn't permanent, and as the Church age draws to a close, it will change; just as prophesied.
I just showed it's you that have the "hot air" Keras...cherry picking the scriptures won't make your case with those who study the words carefully holding context!!!
 
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συνείδησις

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I didn't see any actual replies to my request, so I will ask agaiin and now give my answer.


Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
1 to finish the transgression, and
2 to make an end of sins, and
3 to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
4 to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
5 to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
6 to anoint the most Holy.

The were all fulfilled in the earthly ministry of Christ.

I would ask, how were all of those things not fulfilled in Christ?
 
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jgr

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Wills are under probate until all the conditions are settled.

The first legal requirement upon a death is to identify the most current legally recognized will and testament of the deceased. Once this is established, any and all other wills and testaments are deemed irrevocably null and void.

Thereafter, probate proceeds according to the legally identified and established, sole and exclusive, will and testament.

The conditions for the conferment of the New Covenant remain unfulfilled until all the Lord's faithful Christian people are living in all of the holy Land, as all of Jeremiah 30 and 31 attests.

Jeremiah 30 and 31 are found in the old will and testament.

We're living under the New.
 
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jgr

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This is how we can know that whoever came up with that idea that Paul was speaking of the spiritual temple in 2 Thess.2:4, that they were pushing a doctrine of devils, because the coming Antichrist playing God cannot sit in the spiritual temple in Heaven which only Christ Jesus can reside over. It should be very simple to know that point.

Every other reference to a temple in Paul's epistles is to the "naos" spiritual temple of the believer, collectively, the Church.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 is the same, consistent with all other occurrences where Paul referred to the temple.

History proved Paul correct, entirely as expected since his prediction was issued under the divine inspiration of all Scripture.
 
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Biblewriter

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Let's take Jesus' words at face value:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

If I read this at face value, it literally reads as if when I believe in Jesus, I will not die but live forever.

I know a lot of believers who have died. So should we take this at face value or do we have to interpret this.

All scripture must be interpreted. The Jews, reading scripture at face value, didn't realize who Jesus was and rejected him.
What Jesus said here was literally true. For believers do not die. They only sleep in Christ. Only unbelievers die.
The first legal requirement upon a death is to identify the most current legally recognized will and testament of the deceased. Once this is established, any and all other wills and testaments are deemed irrevocably null and void.

Thereafter, probate proceeds according to the legally identified and established, sole and exclusive, will and testament.



Jeremiah 30 and 31 is found in the old will and testament.

We're living under the New.

Your argument is faulty on two counts. First, you are using human reasoning to resolve spiritual issues, a principle which will never work. And second, the Old Covenant was the law of Moses, and the promises of a future restoration of Israel were made after God had already announced their destruction due to the fact that they had broken the covenant.
 
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claninja

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What Jesus said here was literally true. For believers do not die. They only sleep in Christ. Only unbelievers die.

What you have said is absolutely true. But that is because you have interpreted it. You understand spiritual life and spiritual death, you understand the concept of the resurrection.

To someone who does not know those things, at face value it literally reads you will not die if you believe in jesus.

It does not say believers will sleep and live again, as you are interpreting it to mean.
 
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jgr

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Your argument is faulty on two counts. First, you are using human reasoning to resolve spiritual issues, a principle which will never work.

The definition, meaning, and operation of a will and testament first appear in Scripture, and their application in the temporal affairs of humankind is a continuation thereof. You're welcome to describe any fundamental way in which the two differ.

And second, the Old Covenant was the law of Moses, and the promises of a future restoration of Israel were made after God had already announced their destruction due to the fact that they had broken the covenant.

Then one would expect those promises to be present in God's New Will and Testament.

They are not.
 
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Biblewriter

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The definition, meaning, and operation of a will and testament first appear in Scripture, and their application in the temporal affairs of humankind is a continuation thereof. You're welcome to describe any fundamental way in which the two differ.



Then one would expect those promises to be present in God's New Will and Testament.

They are not.

The fact that you choose to deny that they are repeated in the New Testament does not mean they are not there. For it is not only the Old Testament that declares that Israel will eventually be restored. The New Testament also teaches this, both in the direct words of our Lord himself, and in the words of the Holy Spirit, given through the Apostles. We read, for instance, that Jesus said:

“37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” (Matthew 23:37-39)

And:

“34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! 35 See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” (Luke 13:34-35)

We need to notice what was addressed here. These words were not addressed to the individuals standing around. Nor were they addressed to the priests that had rejected Him. Nor to the Pharisees and Sadducees. They were addressed, and specifically addressed, to a city, Jerusalem. Jesus said, “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!” (And in both passages, the wording of this sentence is identical.) The fact that Jesus accused Jerusalem of killing “the prophets” and of stoning “those who are sent to her,” Jesus was unquestionably addressing the city of Jerusalem in a multi-generational sense.

Why is this important? Because Jesus did not say that Jerusalem would see Him no more “unless” they said “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!” He said it would see Him no more “till” or “until” until it said this. The Greek word translated “till” in Matthew 23:39 is the same one translated “until” in Luke 13:35. This is the Greek word “heos” (word number 2193 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary.) In the KJV, this Greek word is translated “till” 39 times, “until” 25 times, “unto” 27 times, and “to” 16 times. This Greek word does not imply that the event referred to “might” happen. It implies that the event “will” eventually happen. This is not interpretation. It is the basic meaning of the Greek word used in these two scriptures. So Jesus was unquestionably saying that there was a time coming, in which this wicked and rebellious city would finally say, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!” (And again, in this sentence as well, the wording of both of these passages is identical.)

So from these two passages alone, we know that there will be a day when Jerusalem will say, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!” This would be plain even if no other passage spoke of it. But that is not all we see in these passages. We also see, in the words of our Lord Jesus himself, that although Israel is now rejected, that rejection is only temporary, and will end when they finally say “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord”

Again, we read:

“24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24)

And:

“25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” (Romans 11:25)

Again, the Greek word translated “until” in these two passages is also the same. But for these two passages, the Greek word is “achri.” (word number 891 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary) In the KJV, this word is translated “until” 16 times, “unto” 13 times, “till” 6 times, and “even to” 2 times. (It is also translated “while” 2 times, but only if accompanied by the Greek word “hos,” word number 3739 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary, which means “who,” “which,” “what,” or “that.”)

But again, we need to notice the subject of these two pronouncements. The first pronouncement is, as in the first two passages we noticed, about the city of Jerusalem. Now some want to pretend that the words, “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled,” refer to the events of A.D.70, when the Romans sacked Jerusalem. There can be zero doubt that the entire preceding part of this paragraph referred to this time. For it says:

“20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles.” (Luke 21:20-24a)

But we need to notice that the time specified by the words “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” does not end at the fall of Jerusalem. Instead of ending at that time, it begins at that time, running forward to an undefined later time. (I speak here only of the specific wording of this sentence. For the ending of that time is indeed specified, and clearly specified, in other scriptures.) So again this statement, which speaks of the city of Jerusalem over a period of time that is not defined in this passage, is again speaking of that city in a multi-generational sense.

But what of the second of the two pronouncements we are currently discussing? In Romans 11:25 we read that “blindness in part has happened to Israel.” Now many want to insist that in the New Testament, “Israel” means “the church.” But this passage is clearly not saying that “blindness in part” has happened to “the church.” Such an idea would be contrary to many other scriptures, such as John 16:13, where we read, “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth.” So this passage is clearly speaking of the physical nation of Israel.

This is indeed made crystal clear when the entirety of this very long passage is considered. For it begins three chapters earlier by clearly speaking of Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites.” (Romans 9:3-4a) So this pronouncement is very unquestionably about the nation of Israel. And it unquestionably speaks of a judicial “ blindness” inflicted upon that ancient and evil nation. But that “blindness”is is only “in part,” and this “blindness” is unquestionably temporary. For rather than being permanent, it is only “until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” And this word “until” clearly speaks of a time when that Judicial blindness will end. It could hardly be more obvious that this time has not yet come, for the vast bulk is that nation remains partially blinded to spiritual truth, even to the present day. But when “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,” that judicially inflicted blindness will come to an end.

When Luke 21:24 and Romans 11:25 are examined together, it becomes obvious that they both refer to the same time, that is, that the time when “the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled,” or the time when “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” So we see that both of these passages say, in one case, that “Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles,” or, in the other case, “Israel” is inflicted with a judicial “blindness,” until that time. And that time is when “the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled,” or when “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.”

Both of the two Greek words translated “till” or “until” in these four passages, clearly indicate a temporary condition, that will have a distinctive ending. Their difference is that “heos,” which is used in Matthew 23:39 and Luke 13:35, stresses that the condition described will continue until the time is reached, while “achri,” which is used in Luke 21:24 and Romans 11:25, stresses that the condition described will end at a specific time.

So now we have seen four different places in the New Testament, all of which clearly show that the current rejection of Israel is only temporary, and that it will end at a specific time, which is still future even now, nearly two thousand years since these pronouncements were made.

But now we need to go back and re-consider the last of these four passages we have noticed.

“25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” (Romans 11:25)

For this passage continues as follows:

“26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ‘The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.’ 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:26-29)

The context of this entire passage, Romans 11:25-29, existing as it does in immediate connection with verse 25, highlights its unified message. The judicial “blindness” inflicted upon Israel is only temporary, “and so all Israel will be saved.” “For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.” Between these statements we read that even though “they are enemies for your sakes,” they yet remain “beloved for the sake of the fathers.” That is, this passage is not speaking of that portion of Israel that has come to faith in Crist, but of that portion of that ancient and rebellious nation that have rejected the message of the gospel. This is the context of both the statement that “all Israel will be saved” and the statement that “the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.” This message is stated so clearly that nothing but prejudice can keep a person from understanding it.

(continued)
 
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Biblewriter

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(continued from post #373)

This is also stated in Romans 9, where we read:

“25 As He says also in Hosea: ‘I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved.’ ‘26 And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, “You are not My people,” There they shall be called sons of the living God.’ ” (Romans 9:25-26)

In the very place “where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.” That is the context given by the Holy Spirit himself, speaking through the Apostle Paul, for the words “I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved.”

Now we are not told exactly where Hosea was standing when God told him, “Call his name Lo-Ammi, For you are not My people, And I will not be your God.” (Hosea 1:9) But as he was a prophet of Judah, this would have been said somewhere in Judea, the country now called Israel. So here, in Romans 9:25, which is a quotation from Hosea 1:10, the Holy Spirit clearly said that there was a day coming when, within the physical borders of the modern nation of Israel, the people of Israel “shall be called sons of the living God.”

But this brings us back to the beginnings of this ninth chapter of Romans, where we read:

“1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.” (Romans 9:1-5)
We noticed earlier that this passage clearly defines the people under discussion as Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites.” Thus, there can be zero question that the people group under discussion is the individuals that made up the fleshly nation of Israel. There is absolutely no way this can be rationally “spiritualized” to mean “the church.” Yet this same people group remains the subject throughout these entire three chapters, for we read of them again in chapter eleven, that, “Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.” (Romans 11:28)

So this entire three chapter section (Romans 9-11) is about the fleshly nation of Israel, who were “enemies” “concerning the gospel.” That is, the people under discussion had not accepted the gospel, and were on their way to a lost eternity. But, even though tthey were “enemies,” yet they were still “beloved for the sake of the fathers.” And then comes a stunning declaration, which is the death forever for the claim that god has permanently rejected Israel. “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:29)

We need to notice that the context of this declaration that “the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” is the fact that Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites,” are “enemies” “concerning the gospel.” Yet they “are beloved for the sake of the fathers.”

We are not only explicitly told of the temporary nature of Israel’s rejection, we are also told the reason for this. And again, the words are too plain to misunderstand, unless they are approached by a prejudiced mind. God did not reject Israel in condemnation, but to provoke them to jealousy. This is not a tactic of someone who has stopped loving someone and turned to another. It is a tactic of someone who is still in love, and who is working to win back the love of whoever had spurned their love. So we read:

“19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says: ‘I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.’ ” (Romans 10:19)

And again we read:

“11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! 13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?” (Romans 11:11-15)

So God has not only clearly told us that the reason for Israel’s rejection is only to woo them back to himself. He has just as clearly told us that when he has accomplished that purpose, the result of Israel’s restoration will not mean a loss of blessing to the gentiles, but rather, as it were, a very revival of “life from the dead.”

And we need to notice that this eventual restoration of Israel is not stated here as a new revelation, but rather referred to as a well established fact. The Holy Spirit does not say, “if they are revived, it will be life from the dead,” but “what will their acceptance be but life from the dead.” That is, the Christian’s prior knowledge of this acceptance is simply assumed in this scripture.

And why would this knowledge of Israel’s eventual acceptance be simply assumed here? Because it had already been stated, and explicitly stated, in too many places to count.

A great many of these explicit statements that God will indeed accomplish this purpose of winning back their hearts are in the Old Testament. So they are outside of the subject matter of this article. But concerning these very many Old Testament statements about this, we need to notice what Jesus said concerning the rich man and Lazarus:

“29Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ” (Luke 16:29-31)

So the scriptures warn us that we are responsible to heed the words of “Moses and the prophets.” And in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit clearly refers to these Old Testament prophecies, saying, “19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19-21)

This future period is here called two things. It is first called “times of refreshing” and then called “the times of restoration of all things.” The Greek word here translated “of refreshing” is “anapsuxeos,” (word number 403 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which properly means a “recovery of breath,” and thus figuratively means “revival.” And the Greek word translated “of restoration” is “apokatastaseos,” (word number 605 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which means “reconstitution.” What we need to realize from this, is that neither of these words means, or even implies, a time of judgment. Both of these words mean a restoration, not a time of destruction. That is, the Holy Spirit, here quoting Peter through Luke, is specifically saying that there is a time coming when all things will be restored, and then explicitly says that this is the time of “which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.”

So here we have a NEW TESTAMENT statement, made after the new covenant was ALREADY in force, that the things “which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began” are still in the future, and will still happen. That is, these MANY promises still apply. These are the promises which, as we previously saw in Romans 9:3-4, still “pertain” to Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites.”

And finally, there is one more New Testament scripture that mentions this future restoration of Israel.
“27Then Peter answered and said to Him, ‘See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?’ 28So Jesus said to them, ‘Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.’ ” (Matthew 19:27-28)

The Greek word here translated “regeneration” is “paliggenesia.” (word number 3824 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary) In the Greek this is a compound word made by connecting the Greek word “palin,” (word number 3825 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which means “once more,” and the Greek word “genesis,” (word number1078 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which means “nativity,” or “birth.” So once again, this word clearly speaks of a time of restoration, not a time of destruction. But in this time the twelve Apostles “will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” Thus we clearly read, in the New Testament, of a future rebirth, in which the twelve apostles will judge “the twelve tribes of Israel.” Not just Judah, but all twelve tribes, just as repeatedly promised in the Old Testament.

So in conclusion, there is simply no rational escape from the fact that, not just the Old Testament, but also the New Testament, clearly and repeatedly states that there is a time coming in the future, in which the ancient nation of Israel will be restored.
 
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jgr

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(continued from post #373)

This is also stated in Romans 9, where we read:

“25 As He says also in Hosea: ‘I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved.’ ‘26 And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, “You are not My people,” There they shall be called sons of the living God.’ ” (Romans 9:25-26)

In the very place “where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.” That is the context given by the Holy Spirit himself, speaking through the Apostle Paul, for the words “I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved.”

Now we are not told exactly where Hosea was standing when God told him, “Call his name Lo-Ammi, For you are not My people, And I will not be your God.” (Hosea 1:9) But as he was a prophet of Judah, this would have been said somewhere in Judea, the country now called Israel. So here, in Romans 9:25, which is a quotation from Hosea 1:10, the Holy Spirit clearly said that there was a day coming when, within the physical borders of the modern nation of Israel, the people of Israel “shall be called sons of the living God.”

But this brings us back to the beginnings of this ninth chapter of Romans, where we read:

“1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.” (Romans 9:1-5)
We noticed earlier that this passage clearly defines the people under discussion as Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites.” Thus, there can be zero question that the people group under discussion is the individuals that made up the fleshly nation of Israel. There is absolutely no way this can be rationally “spiritualized” to mean “the church.” Yet this same people group remains the subject throughout these entire three chapters, for we read of them again in chapter eleven, that, “Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.” (Romans 11:28)

So this entire three chapter section (Romans 9-11) is about the fleshly nation of Israel, who were “enemies” “concerning the gospel.” That is, the people under discussion had not accepted the gospel, and were on their way to a lost eternity. But, even though tthey were “enemies,” yet they were still “beloved for the sake of the fathers.” And then comes a stunning declaration, which is the death forever for the claim that god has permanently rejected Israel. “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:29)

We need to notice that the context of this declaration that “the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” is the fact that Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites,” are “enemies” “concerning the gospel.” Yet they “are beloved for the sake of the fathers.”

We are not only explicitly told of the temporary nature of Israel’s rejection, we are also told the reason for this. And again, the words are too plain to misunderstand, unless they are approached by a prejudiced mind. God did not reject Israel in condemnation, but to provoke them to jealousy. This is not a tactic of someone who has stopped loving someone and turned to another. It is a tactic of someone who is still in love, and who is working to win back the love of whoever had spurned their love. So we read:

“19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says: ‘I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.’ ” (Romans 10:19)

And again we read:

“11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! 13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?” (Romans 11:11-15)

So God has not only clearly told us that the reason for Israel’s rejection is only to woo them back to himself. He has just as clearly told us that when he has accomplished that purpose, the result of Israel’s restoration will not mean a loss of blessing to the gentiles, but rather, as it were, a very revival of “life from the dead.”

And we need to notice that this eventual restoration of Israel is not stated here as a new revelation, but rather referred to as a well established fact. The Holy Spirit does not say, “if they are revived, it will be life from the dead,” but “what will their acceptance be but life from the dead.” That is, the Christian’s prior knowledge of this acceptance is simply assumed in this scripture.

And why would this knowledge of Israel’s eventual acceptance be simply assumed here? Because it had already been stated, and explicitly stated, in too many places to count.

A great many of these explicit statements that God will indeed accomplish this purpose of winning back their hearts are in the Old Testament. So they are outside of the subject matter of this article. But concerning these very many Old Testament statements about this, we need to notice what Jesus said concerning the rich man and Lazarus:

“29Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ” (Luke 16:29-31)

So the scriptures warn us that we are responsible to heed the words of “Moses and the prophets.” And in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit clearly refers to these Old Testament prophecies, saying, “19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19-21)

This future period is here called two things. It is first called “times of refreshing” and then called “the times of restoration of all things.” The Greek word here translated “of refreshing” is “anapsuxeos,” (word number 403 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which properly means a “recovery of breath,” and thus figuratively means “revival.” And the Greek word translated “of restoration” is “apokatastaseos,” (word number 605 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which means “reconstitution.” What we need to realize from this, is that neither of these words means, or even implies, a time of judgment. Both of these words mean a restoration, not a time of destruction. That is, the Holy Spirit, here quoting Peter through Luke, is specifically saying that there is a time coming when all things will be restored, and then explicitly says that this is the time of “which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.”

So here we have a NEW TESTAMENT statement, made after the new covenant was ALREADY in force, that the things “which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began” are still in the future, and will still happen. That is, these MANY promises still apply. These are the promises which, as we previously saw in Romans 9:3-4, still “pertain” to Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites.”

And finally, there is one more New Testament scripture that mentions this future restoration of Israel.
“27Then Peter answered and said to Him, ‘See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?’ 28So Jesus said to them, ‘Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.’ ” (Matthew 19:27-28)

The Greek word here translated “regeneration” is “paliggenesia.” (word number 3824 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary) In the Greek this is a compound word made by connecting the Greek word “palin,” (word number 3825 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which means “once more,” and the Greek word “genesis,” (word number1078 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which means “nativity,” or “birth.” So once again, this word clearly speaks of a time of restoration, not a time of destruction. But in this time the twelve Apostles “will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” Thus we clearly read, in the New Testament, of a future rebirth, in which the twelve apostles will judge “the twelve tribes of Israel.” Not just Judah, but all twelve tribes, just as repeatedly promised in the Old Testament.

So in conclusion, there is simply no rational escape from the fact that, not just the Old Testament, but also the New Testament, clearly and repeatedly states that there is a time coming in the future, in which the ancient nation of Israel will be restored.

There is nothing to be seen regarding the carnal restoration of national Israel.

All promises relate to the spiritual remnant exclusively, the "all Israel" of true believers.

Romans 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Romans 9:27
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
 
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BABerean2

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Why did millions of Christian Martyrs die undef the hands of a "church" if the spiritual temple had not been corrupted?

Because nobody can be a part of the "Church" without being "born again" of the spirit of God.

When Cornelius tried to bow down to Peter, Peter stopped him.

Any man who allows Christians to bow down to him cannot be of God.


.
 
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BABerean2

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So this entire three chapter section (Romans 9-11) is about the fleshly nation of Israel, who were “enemies” “concerning the gospel.” That is, the people under discussion had not accepted the gospel, and were on their way to a lost eternity. But, even though tthey were “enemies,” yet they were still “beloved for the sake of the fathers.” And then comes a stunning declaration, which is the death forever for the claim that god has permanently rejected Israel. “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:29)


In Romans 11:1-5 Paul starts the chapter with two different groups of Israelites during the time of Elijah.
Most had turned from God, but a faithful remnant of 7,000 had not bowed down to Baal.

Paul ends the chapter in the same way with two different groups of Israelites.
There were "they" who were the enemies of Christ, and there was another group of "they", who were the "election", who accepted Christ.

Rom 11:28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.


The same unfaithful group is found below.


Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?


.
 
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keras

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How long is "everlasting"?
Depends when the Covenant actually commences.
What accusation? I simply asked you to provide scripture, within the context of Daniel 9, that shows the temple and jerusalem are rebuilt a second time to support the claim that the temple in Daniel 9:26 is different than Daniel 9:27. This you still haven't done, by the way.
I have done it. The new Temple is amply prophesied OT and NT = 2Thessalonians 2:4, Revelation 11:1-2
 
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David Kent

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Let's take Jesus' words at face value:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

If I read this at face value, it literally reads as if when I believe in Jesus, I will not die but live forever.

I know a lot of believers who have died. So should we take this at face value or do we have to interpret this.

All scripture must be interpreted. The Jews, reading scripture at face value, didn't realize who Jesus was and rejected him.

Only begotten son. Even at school when we actually had scripture lessons in the late 1940's and early 1950's we were told that it was wrong to say "only son" and it should always be "Only begotten son." Adam was a "son of God."
 
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claninja

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Why is this important? Because Jesus did not say that Jerusalem would see Him no more “unless” they said “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!” He said it would see Him no more “till” or “until” until it said this

"blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord" is from Psalm 118. Psalm 118 is part of the Hallel. This psalm was still recited, even after Jesus prophesied this, many times every year in Israel, especially during Passover, pentacost, and tabernacles, as pilgrims made their way to Jerusaelm. It was part of tradition during the temple times. Psalm 118 is still today recited every year.

So I don't think your interpretation is correct, otherwise those living in Jerusalem would have literally seen Jesus again with their eyes the next they recited psalm 118 at a festival.

We noticed earlier that this passage clearly defines the people under discussion as Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites.” Thus, there can be zero question that the people group under discussion is the individuals that made up the fleshly nation of Israel. There is absolutely no way this can be rationally “spiritualized” to mean “the church.” Yet this same people group remains the subject throughout these entire three chapters, for we read of them again in chapter eleven, that, “Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.” (Romans 11:28)

So this entire three chapter section (Romans 9-11) is about the fleshly nation of Israel, who were “enemies” “concerning the gospel.” That is, the people under discussion had not accepted the gospel, and were on their way to a lost eternity. But, even though tthey were “enemies,” yet they were still “beloved for the sake of the fathers.” And then comes a stunning declaration, which is the death forever for the claim that god has permanently rejected Israel. “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”

In one instance, paul states only a remnant will be saved:
Romans 9:27
Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.

But paul also says, All israel will be saved:
Romans 11:25 and so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

So how can only a remnant be saved, but also ALL israel be saved? Because not all Israel is true Israel. When God saves his remnant, his elect, he saves all of them. and by this, he saves all of israel.
Romans 9:6 t is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

But what of the second of the two pronouncements we are currently discussing? In Romans 11:25 we read that “blindness in part has happened to Israel.” Now many want to insist that in the New Testament, “Israel” means “the church.” But this passage is clearly not saying that “blindness in part” has happened to “the church.” Such an idea would be contrary to many other scriptures, such as John 16:13, where we read, “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth.” So this passage is clearly speaking of the physical nation of Israel.

The old covenant had been made obsolete at the death of Christ, for those who were in Christ. According to paul and the author of hebrews, the old covenant was obsolete AND about to vanish. In other words, even though Christ made it obsolete, it was still present in the 1st century even after the death of Christ. This was symbolized by the then still standing temple

2 Corinthians 3:11 For if what is being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.
Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 9:8 By this the Holy Spirit indicates that the way into the holy places is not yet opened as long as the first tabernacle is still standing (which is symbolic for the present age).

The old covenant, even though obsolete, still had its subjects and those subjects would remain under the law until they turned to the Lord

2 Corinthians 3:15-16 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when onec turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.

And the Jews who did not die to law, remained under that law
Romans 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.

Your argument relies on those who did not trust in the Lord as being true Israel, but they are not and scripture clearly tell us that they are not.

the body of Christ is the true Israel, God's true chosen people. Those Jews who did not turn to Lord and kept the veil over their eyes, were not true Israel. Only those who turn to the Lord are true Israel. First from the Jew and then the Gentile.
 
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