What Power Does Satan Have?

[Ben12]

Revelation is APOCALYPTIC . . . it is a TYPE of prophecy. Same with portions of Daniel.

Anyway, it is indeed proleptic in that it anticipates the future return of Christ.

Show me in scriture????? Revelation is the most spiritual Book in the Bible.

Revelations is a book of symbolism; and is not literal. Yes there are literal Churches or assemblies; but there is a deep spiritual hidden message under the surface. Look closely at that first chapter and there are all kinds of foundations that establish revelations in this context. Many brother’s in the Lord try to spiritualize one part of Revelations, and then they will literalize another section when it fits their understanding; I see it totally as a spiritual book even when I am unsure of some of its meaning. Book of Revelations is the Revelation’s of Jesus Christ with in us; not without.

Revelations 1:1​

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:​

This one little word is so reverent to the whole book Revelations; ‘signified” or signs and symbols. The Book Revelations can only be understood not as a book of prophecy, or literally; but as a very deep and awesome spiritual book by using signs and symbols that can only be found in the Bible.

John was in Spirit on the Lord's day.

I truly believe God’s Word is hidden for many reasons; that is why there are so many creed, religion and understandings in the Bible. If it were possible I believe if man could put the understandings in full understanding of the Book of Revelations in writing it would fill a library. When I see a symbol and apply to Revelations it needs to be used over and over again thought out the Bible; the lampstand is one small example: What an important symbol and I believe it has much to do with Isaiah 11:2 and the seven spirits of God that God has ordained to give us understanding. But there is so much more just pertain to this one simple symbol.

 

[squint]

I do not believe that Satan is Lucifer,

Lucifer in the Isaiah statement fell from heaven and made the world as a wilderness. Do the math.

nor do I believe he is a man; but a spirit.

Satan is an anti-Christ spirit by "nature." That is the way he was made.

The “man of sin”; is the Adamic nature in all of us.

How you blame and accuse your fellow man is of no interest to me. That itself is a working of the anti-Christ spirit in the flesh and mind.

God in Christ does not count sins against mankind.

In referring to Matthew 25:41 the last two words should read “his messengers”

Angel and messenger is the same word. If you don't get that simplicity yet you probably never will.

enjoy!

squint

 

[Ben12]

Lucifer in the Isaiah statement fell from heaven and made the world as a wilderness. Do the math.



Satan is an anti-Christ spirit by "nature." That is the way he was made.


How you blame and accuse your fellow man is of no interest to me. That itself is a working of the anti-Christ spirit in the flesh and mind.

God in Christ does not count sins against mankind.



Angel and messenger is the same word. If you don't get that simplicity yet you probably never will.

enjoy!

squint

First of all I have done the math and no one yet has proven Lucifer is the devil using the Bible. He cannot not be both a murderer, liar etc in his beginning and a perfect angel (it does not add up; there is your math) Show me in scripture…..; God anoints men not Satan; show me Satan being anointed????? This looks interesting???

I think I posted the following already to you. Anti Christ means anti anointing or against the anointing; I believe there is a real spiritual Church; I also believe there are also carnal churches, intercultural churches, and intellectual churches and the list goes on. God is a spirit not a brain. BUT what does the Bible say how God choices his anointed?

David was king; He was God’s anointed King; not like Saul who was also anointed by God; but chosen by the people; like many ministries in the church (little c) realm today. David was one of those special people God called, anointed and was anointed as child. Today’s ministry is chosen by men. I have found men of God that I know anointed by the deepness of their understanding not because they have been voted in or out by some church committee. David walked for many years and knew He had an anointing; but he kept it to himself and understood that Saul was God’s anointed; that is until the appointed time. I think we are better off to wait for God to anoint God’s chosen vessel then to anoint our own. Also let us not forget Solomon who was also anointed of God; but because of his marring and turning his heart to false idols he became corrupt. Reminds me of all the different religions out there that man has married into; there is only one way; Christ with in.

 

[squint]

First of all I have done the math and no one yet has proven Lucifer is the devil using the Bible. He cannot not be both a murderer, liar etc in his beginning and a perfect angel

Who said Satan was EVER perfect???

Being created a PERFECT DEVIL in NO WAY equates to ever being "holy."

(it does not add up; there is your math) Show me in scripture…..; God anoints men not Satan; show me Satan being anointed????? This looks interesting???

Follow the little bouncing ball here.

ALL mankind are stated to be GOD'S OFFSPRING in scriptures. REFERENCE Acts 17:23-29 OR for ALL OF ISRAEL being God's children REFERENCE Deut. 14:1 or Psalm 82:6.

Now you would have to be nearly BLIND to NOT SEE Satan and devils UPON MANKIND in the New Testament. Jesus showed us this exceptionally clearly....did He NOT?

So you have God's offspring/children, and ALL of them "except Jesus" are under the covering of that DARK ANGEL/MESSENGER...

because

All have SINNED.

All have SIN as a present tense indwelling.

Those who commit sin are OF THE DEVIL.

So the DEVIL/Satan is directly implicated in ALL SIN.

I think I posted the following already to you. Anti Christ means anti anointing or against the anointing;

Are you seriously trying to separate Jesus from Christ? lol

Scripture does teach us that there are ANTI-Christ spirits...and if JESUS was/IS The Christ...then those ANTI-Christ spirits would be ANTI---whatEVER Jesus Christ IS.

Where Jesus is THE LIFE...the anti-Christ spirits would be the ANTI-life...You may also see Satan/the DEVIL with the "power of death..." bingo!

Where Jesus said "I Am The Truth" then THEY are the ANTI-TRUTH. Since Satan had NO TRUTH in him...bingo, direct hit AGAIN.

And these anti-Christ spirits are not just floating around in the atmosphere. They are shown to be UPON or COVERING mankind. Literally IN mankind's flesh and MIND. You and I are NO exception.

I believe there is a real spiritual Church; I also believe there are also carnal churches, intercultural churches, and intellectual churches and the list goes on. God is a spirit not a brain. BUT what does the Bible say how God choices his anointed?

Ultimately it is God who "directs" and "deals" with ALL forms of Spirits/anti-Christ spirits. There is no need to MIX these two types of spirits. Both can be "angelic" yet one form, the ANTI-Christ spirits do not have to be HOLY. An "annointing" also does not have to be a HOLY annointing. It can in fact be the OPPOSITE.

David was king; He was God’s anointed King; not like Saul who was also anointed by God; but chosen by the people; like many ministries in the church (little c) realm today. David was one of those special people God called, anointed and was anointed as child.

David was no exception to the rule. Even David was declared to be a SON OF BELIAL in the O.T. and that was a TRUTHFUL STATEMENT that David did not DENY.

Why? Because DAVID also had SIN INDWELLING his flesh and mind which same was OF THE DEVIL. And God deals with THAT entity class entirely DIFFERENTLY than how He deals with His children.

Paul taught this same principal extensively in Romans. Jesus showed us this as well in His example with PETER. Peter spoke truth in one instance and in nearly the next breath SATAN spoke THROUGH Peter. This is a foundational principal of the scriptures and a vital KEY to understandings. Yet without that KEY to DIVIDE mankind from SATANkind...there is only confusions and errant judgment.

Today’s ministry is chosen by men. I have found men of God that I know anointed by the deepness of their understanding not because they have been voted in or out by some church committee.

I generally agree with that statement and am not a "denominational" adherent myself.

David walked for many years and knew He had an anointing; but he kept it to himself and understood that Saul was God’s anointed; that is until the appointed time. I think we are better off to wait for God to anoint God’s chosen vessel then to anoint our own. Also let us not forget Solomon who was also anointed of God; but because of his marring and turning his heart to false idols he became corrupt.

Look Ben, it's easy to MARK your fellow man as sinners or to smear Saul. It will become a true test of your own faith to come to grips with the fact of sin indwelling your own flesh and mind and THAT being of the DEVIL. You cannot pinpoint that apart from God's Help and Disclosure.

Paul came to that conclusion when he found in Romans 7 that "whenever" he desired to do good, EVIL was present with him. This is not a pretty picture, but it IS the truth. When you realize this you will NEVER blame your fellow man again and you WILL walk in proper judgment.

But in any case, sooner or later, death releases us all from sins grip. (Romans 6:7)

enjoy!

squint

 

[mattlock73]

Support it; your eyes are closed that is obvious to anything outside your religious preconceived box. If Lucifer is the Devil then show me in scripture; that simple. Don’t quote some long dead doctrine or creed; show it to me in scripture. All I have seen from all of you so far is traditional understanding with no facts. (Just like the Jews) You say it does not matter what you call him; I disagree and have showed you how relevant a name is in scripture.

What I see in most religions today is closed minded religious people no longer seeking truth, they already have the truth……. They are never wrong; there is plenty of that going on in religion today; how about adding carnal, bias, and the list goes on. I am not much of a literalist in anything to do with God's Word (His Word is Spirit and Life); but I know one simple fact; it at least has to be there. God hides himself from man be they carnal or religious....

Thank you for at least admitting that we have discussed no doctrine on this thread that would support your argument. I hold to no religion, I have a relationship with my Lord. I simply disagree with your childish assumption that Satan is not real, so you attack me personally. Names are relevant, I never said they weren't, but so are the names that are given today. Whether you call Satan Lucifer or the Prince of Darkness or the Angel of Light or Beelzebub, we all know who is being spoken of, that is my point, and one you seem to fail to understand. Scripture says that Satan is a fallen angel, not a personification of sin. You can try to twist it anyway you like, but there it is.

 

[Ben12]

Thank you for at least admitting that we have discussed no doctrine on this thread that would support your argument. I hold to no religion, I have a relationship with my Lord. I simply disagree with your childish assumption that Satan is not real, so you attack me personally. Names are relevant, I never said they weren't, but so are the names that are given today. Whether you call Satan Lucifer or the Prince of Darkness or the Angel of Light or Beelzebub, we all know who is being spoken of, that is my point, and one you seem to fail to understand. Scripture says that Satan is a fallen angel, not a personification of sin. You can try to twist it anyway you like, but there it is.

I hold to no religion either; I do not believe in doctrine; I believe in Christ.

Where did I say Satan was not real????

If scripture declares Satan a fallen angel; please show me; that is all I have ever asked…. I have shown you that his beginnings was a liar, a murderer (nothing about to link Lucifer with Satan) show me the link????

Until you show me the proof you are the one twisting scripture, defending bias. As I mentioned before: Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word.

 

[Ben12]

[/SIZE][/FONT]

Who said Satan was EVER perfect???

Being created a PERFECT DEVIL in NO WAY equates to ever being "holy."

[/SIZE]

Follow the little bouncing ball here.

ALL mankind are stated to be GOD'S OFFSPRING in scriptures. REFERENCE Acts 17:23-29 OR for ALL OF ISRAEL being God's children REFERENCE Deut. 14:1 or Psalm 82:6.

Now you would have to be nearly BLIND to NOT SEE Satan and devils UPON MANKIND in the New Testament. Jesus showed us this exceptionally clearly....did He NOT?

So you have God's offspring/children, and ALL of them "except Jesus" are under the covering of that DARK ANGEL/MESSENGER...

because

All have SINNED.

All have SIN as a present tense indwelling.

Those who commit sin are OF THE DEVIL.

So the DEVIL/Satan is directly implicated in ALL SIN.

[/FONT][/SIZE]

Are you seriously trying to separate Jesus from Christ? lol

Scripture does teach us that there are ANTI-Christ spirits...and if JESUS was/IS The Christ...then those ANTI-Christ spirits would be ANTI---whatEVER Jesus Christ IS.

Where Jesus is THE LIFE...the anti-Christ spirits would be the ANTI-life...You may also see Satan/the DEVIL with the "power of death..." bingo!

Where Jesus said "I Am The Truth" then THEY are the ANTI-TRUTH. Since Satan had NO TRUTH in him...bingo, direct hit AGAIN.

And these anti-Christ spirits are not just floating around in the atmosphere. They are shown to be UPON or COVERING mankind. Literally IN mankind's flesh and MIND. You and I are NO exception.

[/FONT]

Ultimately it is God who "directs" and "deals" with ALL forms of Spirits/anti-Christ spirits. There is no need to MIX these two types of spirits. Both can be "angelic" yet one form, the ANTI-Christ spirits do not have to be HOLY. An "annointing" also does not have to be a HOLY annointing. It can in fact be the OPPOSITE.

[/SIZE][/FONT]

David was no exception to the rule. Even David was declared to be a SON OF BELIAL in the O.T. and that was a TRUTHFUL STATEMENT that David did not DENY.

Why? Because DAVID also had SIN INDWELLING his flesh and mind which same was OF THE DEVIL. And God deals with THAT entity class entirely DIFFERENTLY than how He deals with His children.

Paul taught this same principal extensively in Romans. Jesus showed us this as well in His example with PETER. Peter spoke truth in one instance and in nearly the next breath SATAN spoke THROUGH Peter. This is a foundational principal of the scriptures and a vital KEY to understandings. Yet without that KEY to DIVIDE mankind from SATANkind...there is only confusions and errant judgment.



I generally agree with that statement and am not a "denominational" adherent myself.



Look Ben, it's easy to MARK your fellow man as sinners or to smear Saul. It will become a true test of your own faith to come to grips with the fact of sin indwelling your own flesh and mind and THAT being of the DEVIL. You cannot pinpoint that apart from God's Help and Disclosure.

Paul came to that conclusion when he found in Romans 7 that "whenever" he desired to do good, EVIL was present with him. This is not a pretty picture, but it IS the truth. When you realize this you will NEVER blame your fellow man again and you WILL walk in proper judgment.

But in any case, sooner or later, death releases us all from sins grip. (Romans 6:7)

enjoy!

squint

No one is separating Jesus from the Christ; but there is Christ the head; as well as Christ the body. My point is the anti-Christ spirit is in all of us. man follows religion; dogma/ creeds and rejects God's anointing.

 

[squint]

No one is separating Jesus from the Christ; but there is Christ the head; as well as Christ the body. My point is the anti-Christ spirit is in all of us. man follows religion; dogma/ creeds and rejects God's anointing.

Nice shortline version to dodge the obvious points.

IF there is a SEPARATE ENTITY class called "anti-Christ" spirits

AND IF that entity class has ANY sway over mankind, which is rather pointless to deny from a scriptural perspective...

THEN it becomes rather pointless to rail against the captives...

 

[Ben12]

Nice shortline version to dodge the obvious points.

IF there is a SEPARATE ENTITY class called "anti-Christ" spirits

AND IF that entity class has ANY sway over mankind, which is rather pointless to deny from a scriptural perspective...

THEN it becomes rather pointless to rail against the captives...

Avoid the point? Is that not what you been doing when it comes to Lucifer being the devil. Where is the scriptural proof???? I have lost track of the number of times I have asked you and many others to show it to me in scripture? You can’t so you go off in some tangent. Where do you get this SEPARATE ENTITY class; the anti Christ spirit is in all of us. Happened in the Garden of Eden; and it is still happening.

-"It takes the illumination of the Holy Spirit, (not the Baby-ian Spirit) imparting divine revelation, to discern between the true and the false. So CONFUSED has it all become, so interwoven is truth with error, that the nominal church-goer is not even aware of how much of his religion is actually anti-christ, against the truth. Only those who are "initiated" into God's Kingdom will be able to see clearly how vast Nimrod's kingdom has become.

Furthermore, today Babylon is a union of religious, political, and economical mire-- expressed through three different avenues, yet all under the same Anti-Christ spirit. Catholicism, with all of her

Protestant daughters, bespeak of the religious part of Babylon. Socialism, expressed through its various forms, has gripped all governments. While Zionism has certainly grabbed hold of the economical realm. All three are very intertwined: money, politics, religion all go hand in hand.

This is evident in the little community church at the crossroads, to the vast denominations of our times. One man enterprises, to the vast
dictatorial regimes.

The spirit of antichrist ( Babylon ) has infiltrated all areas of our society. It is present in our religion, economics, and politics. It is a spirit that says, … I WANT TO MAKE A NAME FOR MYSELF, MY DENOMINATION, MY FORTUNE, AND MY POLITICAL AGENDA. This spirit can be traced all the way back to the book of Genesis. Genesis 11:4-9 tells us of the story of Nimrod, his kingdom, and of the Tower of Babel. The word "Babel" that is used in this passage of scripture means: confusion ( by mixing ). The word "Babylon" comes from the word "Babel" and means the same thing. The people spoken of in Genesis 11:4-9 wanted to build a city and a tower, whose top would reach unto heaven. They did all this that they might MAKE A NAME FOR THEMSELVES.

The Lord stopped their plans of building a physical tower, but mankind has continued to go forward with the spirit of Babylon in his heart.

-The city of Babylon was once a literal city. It is now a spiritual city that is made up of one man. That man is ADAM. "Babylon" represents the flesh, the efforts and thoughts of human intellect, and the carnal mind. It speaks of the spirit of antichrist that now operates in the children of disobedience ( Ephesians 2:1,2 ). We must stop looking to the Middle East for a literal city called Babylon. As well, we must stop looking for the rise of one literal man who is supposed to be “The Antichrist”. LOOK TO YOURSELVES ( 2nd John 1:8 )!!!

-It is time for the body of Christ to awaken to a proper understanding of Babylon (confusion) and the spirit of antichrist. It is time to hear the Father’s call … COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE ( Revelation 18:4 )!!! Let us come out of the confusion of the Babylonian church system and into the revelation truth of our Heavenly Father!

 

[mattlock73]

Avoid the point? Is that not what you been doing when it comes to Lucifer being the devil. Where is the scriptural proof???? I have lost track of the number of times I have asked you and many others to show it to me in scripture? You can’t so you go off in some tangent. Where do you get this SEPARATE ENTITY class; the anti Christ spirit is in all of us. Happened in the Garden of Eden; and it is still happening.

-"It takes the illumination of the Holy Spirit, (not the Baby-ian Spirit) imparting divine revelation, to discern between the true and the false. So CONFUSED has it all become, so interwoven is truth with error, that the nominal church-goer is not even aware of how much of his religion is actually anti-christ, against the truth. Only those who are "initiated" into God's Kingdom will be able to see clearly how vast Nimrod's kingdom has become.

Furthermore, today Babylon is a union of religious, political, and economical mire-- expressed through three different avenues, yet all under the same Anti-Christ spirit. Catholicism, with all of her

Protestant daughters, bespeak of the religious part of Babylon. Socialism, expressed through its various forms, has gripped all governments. While Zionism has certainly grabbed hold of the economical realm. All three are very intertwined: money, politics, religion all go hand in hand.

This is evident in the little community church at the crossroads, to the vast denominations of our times. One man enterprises, to the vast
dictatorial regimes.

The spirit of antichrist ( Babylon ) has infiltrated all areas of our society. It is present in our religion, economics, and politics. It is a spirit that says, … I WANT TO MAKE A NAME FOR MYSELF, MY DENOMINATION, MY FORTUNE, AND MY POLITICAL AGENDA. This spirit can be traced all the way back to the book of Genesis. Genesis 11:4-9 tells us of the story of Nimrod, his kingdom, and of the Tower of Babel. The word "Babel" that is used in this passage of scripture means: confusion ( by mixing ). The word "Babylon" comes from the word "Babel" and means the same thing. The people spoken of in Genesis 11:4-9 wanted to build a city and a tower, whose top would reach unto heaven. They did all this that they might MAKE A NAME FOR THEMSELVES.

The Lord stopped their plans of building a physical tower, but mankind has continued to go forward with the spirit of Babylon in his heart.

-The city of Babylon was once a literal city. It is now a spiritual city that is made up of one man. That man is ADAM. "Babylon" represents the flesh, the efforts and thoughts of human intellect, and the carnal mind. It speaks of the spirit of antichrist that now operates in the children of disobedience ( Ephesians 2:1,2 ). We must stop looking to the Middle East for a literal city called Babylon. As well, we must stop looking for the rise of one literal man who is supposed to be “The Antichrist”. LOOK TO YOURSELVES ( 2nd John 1:8 )!!!

-It is time for the body of Christ to awaken to a proper understanding of Babylon (confusion) and the spirit of antichrist. It is time to hear the Father’s call … COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE ( Revelation 18:4 )!!! Let us come out of the confusion of the Babylonian church system and into the revelation truth of our Heavenly Father!

Lol, OK time to get out the tinfoil hats. Let me know when you've taken your meds Benny, and then maybe we can have a rational discussion.

 

[squint]

Avoid the point? Is that not what you been doing when it comes to Lucifer being the devil. Where is the scriptural proof????

Lucifer is a term used only ONE TIME in the Bible and that is not enough to form a "doctrine" about Lucifer. Lucifer is often "equated" with SATAN "because" (follow closely here Ben) HE FELL FROM HEAVEN...

There are other statements in Isaiah that could lead to the conclusion that Lucifer (no king of Babylon that we know if is named LUCIFER) as well. Being the "king" of "Babylon," "weakening the nations," "the man that made the earth to tremble," being the seed of "evildoers" etc. etc.

But if you don't see it, WHO CARES? Satan is STILL Satan/THE DEVIL..the ANTI-CHRIST spirit.

I have lost track of the number of times I have asked you and many others to show it to me in scripture? You can’t so you go off in some tangent.

I could care LESS about how you see LUCIFER. It is NOT uncommon that LUCIFER is believed to be SATAN...and for good enough cause...Men as we know them don't FALL FROM HEAVEN...

Where do you get this SEPARATE ENTITY class; the anti Christ spirit is in all of us.

You can read and comprehend right?

All have SINNED...

EVIL is "present" with us.

"He who commits sin is OF THE DEVIL."

The DEVIL is THE ANTI-CHRIST spirit.

You don't have to be a raging genius to connect the dots here Ben.

-"It takes the illumination of the Holy Spirit, (not the Baby-ian Spirit) imparting divine revelation, to discern between the true and the false. So CONFUSED has it all become, so interwoven is truth with error, that the nominal church-goer is not even aware of how much of his religion is actually anti-christ, against the truth.

Well just WHERE would you expect to find the WORKING OF SATAN except IN THE CHURCHES Ben? Even John the Apostle pointed that out clearly in Rev. 2-3 when writing to them.

And we know that wherever the WORD is sown, SATAN comes to steal same...which puts Satan in pretty close proximity eh?

Only those who are "initiated" into God's Kingdom will be able to see clearly how vast Nimrod's kingdom has become.

Mystery Babylon is NOT a nation that can be seen with eyes of flesh...we may see the workings of Mystery Babylon in the flesh, but we do NOT see the controllers of Mystery Babylon...who are the Devil and his messengers.

But you do understand that those entities were clearly shown to be WITHIN mankind...???

Jesus showed this fact on nearly every page of the N.T.

Furthermore, today Babylon is a union of religious, political, and economical mire-- expressed through three different avenues, yet all under the same Anti-Christ spirit. Catholicism, with all of her

Protestant daughters, bespeak of the religious part of Babylon. Socialism, expressed through its various forms, has gripped all governments. While Zionism has certainly grabbed hold of the economical realm. All three are very intertwined: money, politics, religion all go hand in hand.

You merely rant against the slaves and against your fellow man when there are much more obvious parties involved. Please be advised that anyone who picks of the Word of God will find SATAN coming to STEAL...

This is evident in the little community church at the crossroads, to the vast denominations of our times. One man enterprises, to the vast
dictatorial regimes.

The spirit of antichrist ( Babylon ) has infiltrated all areas of our society.

Well BRAVO for that fact!

Now I hope you are not going to start SMEARING your fellow man as being the spirit of the anti-Christ???

It is present in our religion, economics, and politics. It is a spirit that says, … I WANT TO MAKE A NAME FOR MYSELF, MY DENOMINATION, MY FORTUNE, AND MY POLITICAL AGENDA. This spirit can be traced all the way back to the book of Genesis. Genesis 11:4-9 tells us of the story of Nimrod, his kingdom, and of the Tower of Babel. The word "Babel" that is used in this passage of scripture means: confusion ( by mixing ). The word "Babylon" comes from the word "Babel" and means the same thing. The people spoken of in Genesis 11:4-9 wanted to build a city and a tower, whose top would reach unto heaven. They did all this that they might MAKE A NAME FOR THEMSELVES.

The Lord stopped their plans of building a physical tower, but mankind has continued to go forward with the spirit of Babylon in his heart.

-The city of Babylon was once a literal city. It is now a spiritual city that is made up of one man. That man is ADAM. "Babylon" represents the flesh, the efforts and thoughts of human intellect, and the carnal mind. It speaks of the spirit of antichrist that now operates in the children of disobedience ( Ephesians 2:1,2 ). We must stop looking to the Middle East for a literal city called Babylon. As well, we must stop looking for the rise of one literal man who is supposed to be “The Antichrist”. LOOK TO YOURSELVES ( 2nd John 1:8 )!!!

Paul taught us this fact exceptionally well, and I will not be so ignorant to be looking at the flesh when I should be perceiving the anti-christ spirits that CANNOT be seen with eyes of flesh.

-It is time for the body of Christ to awaken to a proper understanding of Babylon (confusion) and the spirit of antichrist. It is time to hear the Father’s call … COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE ( Revelation 18:4 )!!! Let us come out of the confusion of the Babylonian church system and into the revelation truth of our Heavenly Father!

God's children have no problem SEPARATING THEMSELVES from "iniquity" when they see the REAL CAUSE OF SAME...and know that THEY are not THEM.

enjoy!

squint

 

[Ben12]

So where do you tie Satan in with Lucifer; Satan was a liar from his beginning; how can you fall from heaven if you are already a murderer; a liar from the BEGINNING. You cannot show Satan has anything to do with Lucifer so obvious you do not care.
Talk about the spirit of Baby-lon
Revelation 3:15-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=2
15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Show me in scriture????? Revelation is the most spiritual Book in the Bible.

Revelations is a book of symbolism; and is not literal. Yes there are literal Churches or assemblies; but there is a deep spiritual hidden message under the surface. Look closely at that first chapter and there are all kinds of foundations that establish revelations in this context. Many brother’s in the Lord try to spiritualize one part of Revelations, and then they will literalize another section when it fits their understanding; I see it totally as a spiritual book even when I am unsure of some of its meaning. Book of Revelations is the Revelation’s of Jesus Christ with in us; not without.

Revelations 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:​

This one little word is so reverent to the whole book Revelations; ‘signified” or signs and symbols. The Book Revelations can only be understood not as a book of prophecy, or literally; but as a very deep and awesome spiritual book by using signs and symbols that can only be found in the Bible.

John was in Spirit on the Lord's day.

I truly believe God’s Word is hidden for many reasons; that is why there are so many creed, religion and understandings in the Bible. If it were possible I believe if man could put the understandings in full understanding of the Book of Revelations in writing it would fill a library. When I see a symbol and apply to Revelations it needs to be used over and over again thought out the Bible; the lampstand is one small example: What an important symbol and I believe it has much to do with Isaiah 11:2 and the seven spirits of God that God has ordained to give us understanding. But there is so much more just pertain to this one simple symbol.

The things in revelation that are typological are evident. There are other things that are QUITE literal. Besides none of this matters anyway. What SIGNIFIES Satan and his host is a LARGE DRAGON . . . and they are called ANGELS. Whether the passage is symbolic or not (I believe it is) IT STILL CALLS SATAN AND ANGEL and there is NO typology in that. Period. So to wax eloquent about our common misinterpretations of Revelation matters little in the portion in question. It says what it says.

 

[Ben12]

The things in revelation that are typological are evident. There are other things that are QUITE literal. Besides none of this matters anyway. What SIGNIFIES Satan and his host is a LARGE DRAGON . . . and they are called ANGELS. Whether the passage is symbolic or not (I believe it is) IT STILL CALLS SATAN AND ANGEL and there is NO typology in that. Period. So to wax eloquent about our common misinterpretations of Revelation matters little in the portion in question. It says what it says.

Just like Lucifer; SHOW me in SCRIPTURE???????

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Just like Lucifer; SHOW me in SCRIPTURE???????

I never espoused the "lucifer" issue. I am just contending that Satan is an angel and a real entity.

 

[Ben12]

I never espoused the "lucifer" issue. I am just contending that Satan is an angel and a real entity.

But he is not an angel; he is a liar. All I have seen here is traditional understanding with NO substance. Without God's Word all you have is dead dogma, religous tradition. Lucifer fell from heaven and that makes him the devil.

Adam fell from heaven; Adam talked and walked with God in the spirit of the day. Read Psalm 82.

 

[Ben12]

One made after God’s image (spirit) and one who God changed to a living soul and later carnal flesh.

Gen 1:26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Then in the next chapter and who how short or long this period is:
Gen. 2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Then we get the deep sleep:
Gen: 2:21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 3:6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat

 

[squint]

Just like Lucifer; SHOW me in SCRIPTURE???????

Well BEN, who do YOU think Lucifer was? Just a man/king who fell from heaven???

It's easy to whine about the connection of Lucifer to Satan when you have no position on the table.

In advance, if you are like many "universalists" you will try to make some bizarre connection to Adam...but hey, surprise me.

 

[armothe]

Well BEN, who do YOU think Lucifer was? Just a man/king who fell from heaven??

Actually, that's exactly what the text speaks of.

Chapter 13 begins a long section of the book known as "Oracles Against Foreign Nations." and begins by declaring judgment against Babylon. Babylon is denounced for her arrogance and lack of concern for other nations as she built her empire. It is interesting that in 13:10, specific mention is made of the failure of the Babylonian gods (constellations, sun, moon) to help them when God calls then to accountability.

Chapter 14 then begins with the promise of Israel’s return from Babylonian exile. Part of that return would involve the downfall of the tyrant king of Babylon (v. 4; probably Nebuchadrezzer). In that context, verses 12-21 are a poetic picture of that downfall. Helel, morning star, and Shahar, dawn, then, are references to the Babylonian gods who could not save the king, and are themselves to be cast down. In fact, there is probably a reference here to the habit of ancient Near Eastern kings proclaiming themselves incarnations of the gods; with the fall of the kings, the gods also fell, often physically as the images that represented them were pulled down and destroyed.

-A

 

[squint]

Actually, that's exactly what the text speaks of.

Chapter 13 begins a long section of the book known as "Oracles Against Foreign Nations." and begins by declaring judgment against Babylon. Babylon is denounced for her arrogance and lack of concern for other nations as she built her empire. It is interesting that in 13:10, specific mention is made of the failure of the Babylonian gods (constellations, sun, moon) to help them when God calls then to accountability.

Chapter 14 then begins with the promise of Israel’s return from Babylonian exile. Part of that return would involve the downfall of the tyrant king of Babylon (v. 4; probably Nebuchadrezzer). In that context, verses 12-21 are a poetic picture of that downfall. Helel, morning star, and Shahar, dawn, then, are references to the Babylonian gods who could not save the king, and are themselves to be cast down. In fact, there is probably a reference here to the habit of ancient Near Eastern kings proclaiming themselves incarnations of the gods; with the fall of the kings, the gods also fell, often physically as the images that represented them were pulled down and destroyed.

-A

Well, unfortunately for that opinion, Lucifer was called a MAN...not a set of constellations.