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Ben12
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This has nothing to do with Universalism; it has to do with facts in scripture; something I have been presenting in comparison with you presenting religious assumptions. You say I whine; but you have given no substance to you religious fallacy. I have shown by using scripture not some dead religious hocus-pocus that Satan/the devil was a murderer, liar and the truth was not in him from his beginning.
Adam and Lucifer are the same. When Adam fell from Gods grace in The Garden of Eden; He fell from a place of grace and became as a carnal beast or flesh (same as the Beast or its mark in Book of Revelations). We all got that bestial nature in us; God gave it to us when we received the curse.
Adam was a son of God; just like Jesus who is the second Adam. Religion looks for answers everywhere they can find them, be it the natural world, human history or tradition. The answer to the Bible is the Bible; just got to let the Spirit of Truth open the mystery; then it is no longer a mystery.
Adam it could be said: no corrupt and dying blood flowed in the veins of these inhabitants of Paradise. No death-dealing carnal mind corrupted them to bring their members under the power of death and sin. They lived in a realm long since closed to the human race. They were clothed upon not with garments of wool and cotton or even seamless robes, but, because of their heavenly brightness and their blessed communion with God, they lived in a realm of transfiguration and were no more in need of earthly garments than an angel. All creatures of that perfumed, effulgent paradise were under their wise and loving control. No timid creature raced in terror from snarling ravenous beasts. The pitiful cry of a dying thing was never heard. Peace reigned supreme and love without alloy. Had this blessed son in his unfallen state walked the earth centuries later, he, too, would have stilled the waves, raised the dead, and healed diseases as did Christ, the last Adam. But this was not God's plan. George Hawtin
God wanted/ordained Adam to sin; so that Gods people will be changed/mature and grow.
God walked with Adam in the cool (spirit) of he day.
Genesis 3: 8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool (or spirit of the day)of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
I might add, the word breath or cool; same word as in Genesis 3:8 according to Strongs OT:7307: ruwach (roo'-akh); from OT:7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a senible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):
Where Satan was created a liar, not an angel of light and a murderer not a shining star; from the beginning of source; from his beginning; from his beginning.
Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and
I have created the waster to destroy. (nothing about an angel of light) (See God created Satan to blow coals on the fire ( nothing about any kind of angel)
Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!------13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will belike the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms
Adam was clothed by Gods glory before the fall. By eating of the tree of Good and Evil he was brought down to the realm of death (fell from heaven). Adam died when he partook of the fruit in the garden; he did not die physically until he was 930 years old. (Gen. 5.5) He died spiritually. In Adams mind he was deceived to believe something he already was; instead of doing only Gods will like Jesus. Adam did Adams will.
There is no light in Satan; but that is what Lucifer means; now Adam was a son of Godat fell from heaven) (there is your light t; just like Jesus (born in Gods image.) Genesis 1:26
Tradition teaches that Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word. Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"
I have always found Job is speaking of the sons of Elohim (God) this is not Satan it is Adam.
Psalm 82: 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. (notice little g or Elohim) 2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said, Ye are gods (Elohim); and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, (Satan did not die Adam did) and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Sons of god are men (Elohim Little g god); men have fallen not Satan; he was created by God as a waster, destroyer, murderer, liar from his beginning. So far you have shown me nothing to prove that Lucifer is Satan; and you cannot because it is not in scripture; but only in the minds of religious man; their creeds and dogma.
Adam:
Adam and Lucifer are the same. When Adam fell from Gods grace in The Garden of Eden; He fell from a place of grace and became as a carnal beast or flesh (same as the Beast or its mark in Book of Revelations). We all got that bestial nature in us; God gave it to us when we received the curse.
Adam was a son of God; just like Jesus who is the second Adam. Religion looks for answers everywhere they can find them, be it the natural world, human history or tradition. The answer to the Bible is the Bible; just got to let the Spirit of Truth open the mystery; then it is no longer a mystery.
Adam it could be said: no corrupt and dying blood flowed in the veins of these inhabitants of Paradise. No death-dealing carnal mind corrupted them to bring their members under the power of death and sin. They lived in a realm long since closed to the human race. They were clothed upon not with garments of wool and cotton or even seamless robes, but, because of their heavenly brightness and their blessed communion with God, they lived in a realm of transfiguration and were no more in need of earthly garments than an angel. All creatures of that perfumed, effulgent paradise were under their wise and loving control. No timid creature raced in terror from snarling ravenous beasts. The pitiful cry of a dying thing was never heard. Peace reigned supreme and love without alloy. Had this blessed son in his unfallen state walked the earth centuries later, he, too, would have stilled the waves, raised the dead, and healed diseases as did Christ, the last Adam. But this was not God's plan. George Hawtin
God wanted/ordained Adam to sin; so that Gods people will be changed/mature and grow.
God walked with Adam in the cool (spirit) of he day.
Genesis 3: 8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool (or spirit of the day)of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
I might add, the word breath or cool; same word as in Genesis 3:8 according to Strongs OT:7307: ruwach (roo'-akh); from OT:7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a senible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):
Where Satan was created a liar, not an angel of light and a murderer not a shining star; from the beginning of source; from his beginning; from his beginning.
Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and
I have created the waster to destroy. (nothing about an angel of light) (See God created Satan to blow coals on the fire ( nothing about any kind of angel)
Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!------13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will belike the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms
Adam was clothed by Gods glory before the fall. By eating of the tree of Good and Evil he was brought down to the realm of death (fell from heaven). Adam died when he partook of the fruit in the garden; he did not die physically until he was 930 years old. (Gen. 5.5) He died spiritually. In Adams mind he was deceived to believe something he already was; instead of doing only Gods will like Jesus. Adam did Adams will.
There is no light in Satan; but that is what Lucifer means; now Adam was a son of Godat fell from heaven) (there is your light t; just like Jesus (born in Gods image.) Genesis 1:26
Tradition teaches that Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word. Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"
I have always found Job is speaking of the sons of Elohim (God) this is not Satan it is Adam.
Psalm 82: 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. (notice little g or Elohim) 2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said, Ye are gods (Elohim); and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, (Satan did not die Adam did) and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Sons of god are men (Elohim Little g god); men have fallen not Satan; he was created by God as a waster, destroyer, murderer, liar from his beginning. So far you have shown me nothing to prove that Lucifer is Satan; and you cannot because it is not in scripture; but only in the minds of religious man; their creeds and dogma.
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