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What of these passages, do they make you think?

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There is no doubt that Gallatians harshly condemns Judaizing, or arguing that ANY Christian should keep the Mosaic Law. And that includes the Sabbath. Acts 15 gives Gentile Christians just four things to do, and does not include the Sabbath.

Logically, there is NO WAY to advocate Sabbath Keeping without making it an issue of Salvation. It ALWAYS leads to that conclusion. VictorC just posted some lengthy excerpts from Ellen White that clearly demonstrates where this leads. Elder111 was caught red handed in lying that his Church does not teach that Sabbath Keeping is a requirement for Salvation.

Sabbath Keeping is just incompatible with the Gospel and the Resurrection. There is 2,000 years of Christian History that demonstrates this.
IMO the Mosaic Law is like one of those leg irons chained to a ball used for keeping people from running away to keep them enslaved. It stifles love as people end up wasting their time and concentration making sure they are keeping the 600+ laws properly instead of taking the time to love those around them they spend friday getting ready for the sabbath and saturday keeping it. Jesus condemned the pharisees saying it is right to do good on the sabbath equating they wouldn't hesitate to pull a donkey from a ditch on that day. I can't believe that SDA preacher didn't go ahead and help that kid if he knew the Bible he could have used Jesus own words to justify helping the kid on the Sabbath. I think that these folks are spoon fed doctrine such that they cannot possibly learn it the way it is really written and be lead "astray" of SDA theology.
 
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The Sabbath was never, ever commanded in the new testament? Where is it ever, ever forbidden in the new testament? Is the issue in the new testament or anywhere in the Bible in reality about it being impossible to actually keep?

That is quite an interpretation of what I see for the sabbath. I have already posted, a number of times now, that I don't see this having anything to do with salvation, which is only through the Lord Jesus Christ according to our faith, repenting and coming to him. And way to throw out "But what about the children, won't someone think of the children" for argument. That could be thrown at every family that believes differently than you.

What fingerprints are there of Seventh Day Adventists? I am just a Christian believer, finding something in the Bible, asking a question, and yet to get a satisfying response that really answers.
That's pretty good. Open with a statement and punctuate it with a ?. Then ask a rhetorical question you know there's no positive answer for. It changes the issue. We never argued in this forum anywhere the Sabbath is forbidden. Yet its argued its mandatory for the Christian. There's nothing to back that up with in the New Covenant. The best you can hope to do is show its a choice. There's no way to show not keeping the 7th day Sabbath is a sin in the New Testament.
 
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LarryP2

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IMO the Mosaic Law is like one of those leg irons chained to a ball used for keeping people from running away to keep them enslaved. It stifles love as people end up wasting their time and concentration making sure they are keeping the 600+ laws properly instead of taking the time to love those around them they spend friday getting ready for the sabbath and saturday keeping it. Jesus condemned the pharisees saying it is right to do good on the sabbath equating they wouldn't hesitate to pull a donkey from a ditch on that day. I can't believe that SDA preacher didn't go ahead and help that kid if he knew the Bible he could have used Jesus own words to justify helping the kid on the Sabbath. I think that these folks are spoon fed doctrine such that they cannot possibly learn it the way it is really written and be lead "astray" of SDA theology.

Ugly, anti-Christian behavior like that on the Sabbath is the rule rather than the exception. I have personally witnessed many THOUSANDS of instances of horrifying behavior like that by Seventh Day Adventists on the Sabbath. And they are certainly disobedient to the Great Commandments of Christ when they behave that way. Simply put, Christianity has known for thousands of years that the Sabbath is incompatible with the Gospel, the Resurrection and the Great Commandments of Christ:

Synod of Laodicea (4th Century)

Canon 29


"Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ."

Christianity well-knew that the results of the Sabbath Keeping heresy would ALWAYS be the destruction of Christ's Great Commandments.
 
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This is a lame argument..... it is called arguing from silence. We don't see a lot of thing forbidden in the new testament it doesn't mean we are supposed to DO them. The Sabbath isn't commanded of Christians whatsoever, in fact it isn't even mentioned as a valid thing for Gentiles to even consider and there are a lot of things mentioned in the New Testament that are argued to try and support the silence of the Sabbath command therein.
I don't see anyone arguing here that people of their free will can keep the sabbath at all, we don't mind you keeping the Sabbath what we do mind is you arguing or even trying to convince others that we should keep it. Once you equate it is something you NEED to do then the argument invariably works its way back to the true reason... why? If you don't lose salvation by NOT keeping the Sabbath then why keep it? Once this argument is encountered one must invariably agree the Sabbath is voluntary and not mandatory OR equate on loses their "Christianity" by not participating in it.

Invariably those who promote Sabbath Keeping EVEN if it is supposedly not tied into salvation rely on the arguments the SDAs use, the same proof texts and invariably read the same garbage online that they also read and spew it out and about promoting it here and there.
At what percentage does one have to agree with the SDA church do they become as far as those who are generically labeling them..... another SDA clone? You tell us. The old saying if it walks like a duck and speaks like a duck and ducks seem to agree with them perhaps it IS a duck.
Ducks quack where I live.
 
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FredVB

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The Book of Galatians and Colossians 2:13-18 were the "first shots" in Christianity's fierce all-out war against the Judaizing heresy.
I already know you think you are much much smarter than the heroic Bishops that were gathered at that Church Council, so no need for you to explain your position.

As long as you completely ignore the prohibition against "work" by your "manservant and maidservants" on the Sabbath, which is actually probably about 75 percent of the actual real-world modern difficulty and effort of Sabbath Keeping. Given globalization (which was not in existence during the Bible years), either you buy NOTHING that is made on the Sabbath, which requires boycotting ANYTHING produced in a factory that works 7 days a week. Or, you can completely ignore it and then hypocritically smear Christians of being "lawless," when in point of fact, you have demonstrated a FAR higher level of willful "lawlessness" by ignoring most of what you gloatingly announce you are "keeping."

It inevitably and logically leads to an impossible Salvation by Works scheme and ultimately, rejection of the Resurrection.
1000's of Sabbath threads and posts on this website!

I have read the Bible, as a believer, for several decades. I know about what is said in Galatians and Colossians, and we went to such passages earlier in this thread. They speak to legalism, and also being intolerant, they don't say something to forbid any from observing sabbath rests.

It is not that I say that I am smarter than any speaking for godliness and Christianity through history, but it is smart to stick with what is actually said in the Bible, it has the real basis for Christianity. There is something tragic in the institutionalization of Christianity with its decisions agreed on after being made the official religion of the empire. Though some who suffered persecution against Christians still remained, there was new persecutions, against any that disagreed on what was thought essential, this persecution would not be legal in modern western civilization now.

I have rejected the argument that I have servants. Any that I would have I would tell to do things, that is the meaning of one having servants. But you have already listed injustices in certain areas of the workforce. What are you doing with your choices about that? It would be inexcusable with the knowledge to not decide anything differently. But you suggest knowing something about what things I purchase. But I can warn you, if you want to list it, you will get it wrong. You will have no way to get close to what I actually purchase.

Where in anything that I posted have I said anything that would smear Christians? It is assumed evidently, with this anti-SDA position, that this is what is promoted in my posts. Again I say, I am not Seventh Day Adventist. I have nothing against them as such. I know little about them. I have seen what Walter Martin wrote of them, and I have run across some material on observing sabbath. But I only left it to what I would find in having Bible readings, to speak to this. And I never ran across anything saying it is wrong for any to observe rest with the sabbath in old or new testaments of the Bible. Much is said for keeping it. But I see how gentile Christians are not to have it required, or to be judged. And I am not doing so. But though I see how it might be desirable for myself, there is condemnation for what I say, and what is read into what I say, though I asked about a Bible passage, and never said anything for requirements to any.

Those thousands of posts you mentioned are not mine. I did not ever post anything promoting Seventh Day Adventism, which I don't know enough about, and I don't see any fingerprints of them in what I posted.

This is a lame argument..... it is called arguing from silence. We don't see a lot of thing forbidden in the new testament it doesn't mean we are supposed to DO them. The Sabbath isn't commanded of Christians whatsoever, in fact it isn't even mentioned as a valid thing for Gentiles to even consider and there are a lot of things mentioned in the New Testament that are argued to try and support the silence of the Sabbath command therein.
I don't see anyone arguing here that people of their free will can keep the sabbath at all, we don't mind you keeping the Sabbath what we do mind is you arguing or even trying to convince others that we should keep it. Once you equate it is something you NEED to do then the argument invariably works its way back to the true reason... why? If you don't lose salvation by NOT keeping the Sabbath then why keep it? Once this argument is encountered one must invariably agree the Sabbath is voluntary and not mandatory OR equate on loses their "Christianity" by not participating in it.

At what percentage does one have to agree with the SDA church do they become as far as those who are generically labeling them..... another SDA clone? You tell us. The old saying if it walks like a duck and speaks like a duck and ducks seem to agree with them perhaps it IS a duck.

I see argument from silence in the opposing posts, saying there is not commandment for the Sabbath in the new testament. If the old and new testaments of the Bible are silent on anything involving some thing, then I font think that thing is sin. Though something may be thought to be sin, it is God's word that has the authority to say so.

Why observe it? God said it is holy. So it would be better to, or to at least try. But no it doesn't effect salvation.

I don't have anything to do with others saying so. I don't let others speaking about what is said for us from the Bible to have priority over what I see from the Bible myself. So how am I a clone of anything?
 
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LarryP2

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. I have read the Bible, as a believer, for several decades. I know about what is said in Galatians and Colossians, and we went to such passages earlier in this thread. They speak to legalism, and also being intolerant, they don't say something to forbid any from observing sabbath rests.

There is a solid wall of Church history that forbids Christians from keeping the Sabbath. Christianity needs no help from you or I to define itself. That it has ALWAYS condemned Sabbath Keeping as an anti-Christian heresy could not be any clearer.

It is not that I say that I am smarter than any speaking for godliness and Christianity through history, but it is smart to stick with what is actually said in the Bible, it has the real basis for Christianity.

It is always so fascinating to hear someone say that: indicating 100 percent trust in the Church Fathers who compiled the Biblical Canon. They have unwavering and complete faith that those Church Fathers were doing the Will of God when they put the Bible together. Yet they at the same time argue that those very same people are 100 percent wrong on what they said about the Sabbath being an anti-Christian heresy!

It is just so fascinating!

There is something tragic in the institutionalization of Christianity with its decisions agreed on after being made the official religion of the empire. Though some who suffered persecution against Christians still remained, there was new persecutions, against any that disagreed on what was thought essential, this persecution would not be legal in modern western civilization now.

LOL.....and many of those "persecutions against any that disagreed on what was essential" were people who disagreed with the Bible as you know it now, and wanted additional books put in it! And part of the BIG "institutionalization of Christianity" that you decry involved putting together the Bible......"the institutionalization of the final Biblical Canon!"

I have rejected the argument that I have servants. Any that I would have I would tell to do things, that is the meaning of one having servants. But you have already listed injustices in certain areas of the workforce. What are you doing with your choices about that? It would be inexcusable with the knowledge to not decide anything differently. But you suggest knowing something about what things I purchase.

For one thing I don't go around hypocritically announcing that I keep the Sabbath, when I actually do not. And your reading of the 4th Commandment completely flies in the face of this:

Nehemiah 13:15-22
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 In those days I saw in Judah some who were treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sacks of grain and loading them on donkeys, as well as wine, grapes, figs and all kinds of loads, and they brought them into Jerusalem on the Sabbath day. So I admonished them on the day they sold food. 16 Also men of Tyre were living [a]there who imported fish and all kinds of merchandise, and sold them to the sons of Judah on the sabbath, even in Jerusalem. 17 Then I reprimanded the nobles of Judah and said to them, “What is this evil thing you are doing, [c]by profaning the sabbath day? 18 Did not your fathers do the same, so that our God brought on us and on this city all this trouble? Yet you are adding to the wrath on Israel by profaning the sabbath.”

19 It came about that just as it grew dark at the gates of Jerusalem before the sabbath, I commanded that the doors should be shut [d]and that they should not open them until after the sabbath. Then I stationed some of my servants at the gates so that no load would enter on the sabbath day. 20 Once or twice the traders and merchants of every kind of merchandise spent the night outside Jerusalem. 21 Then I [e]warned them and said to them, “Why do you spend the night in front of the wall? If you do so again, I will [f]use force against you.” From that time on they did not come on the sabbath. 22 And I commanded the Levites that they should purify themselves and come as gatekeepers to sanctify the sabbath day. For this also remember me, O my God, and have compassion on me according to the greatness of Your lovingkindness.

And I never ran across anything saying it is wrong for any to observe rest with the sabbath in old or new testaments of the Bible. Much is said for keeping it. But I see how gentile Christians are not to have it required, or to be judged. And I am not doing so. But though I see how it might be desirable for myself, there is condemnation for what I say, and what is read into what I say, though I asked about a Bible passage, and never said anything for requirements to any.

LOL....the very same people that you have 100 percent faith in the way they put together the Biblical Canon and chose what would be in it; are the very same people you have 100 percent NO FAITH in when it comes to whether the Sabbath should be kept!

Synod of Laodicea (4th Century)

Canon 29


Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.
CHURCH FATHERS: Synod of Laodicea (4th Century)

It is just fascinating how you can endorse those people 100 percent for the way they chose the biblical canon, yet you denounce them 100 percent for the way they expelled Judaizing heretics from Christianity. It is just Fascinating!

But I can warn you, if you want to list it, you will get it wrong. You will have no way to get close to what I actually purchase.
I am 100 percent sure that you are connected to an internet provider and an electric company that keeps your internet and your electricity up and running 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. The money that you pay your bills to these companies goes directly to salaries that pay people for breaking the Sabbath that you proclaim you are "keeping," notwithstanding the crystal clear prohibition against doing PRECISELY that. This is precisely why the First and Second Century Christians had a one-word description of the heretics that attempted to revive the Dead and Obsolete Mosaic Law:

"Hypocrites."

I see argument from silence in the opposing posts, saying there is not commandment for the Sabbath in the new testament. If the old and new testaments of the Bible are silent on anything involving some thing, then I font think that thing is sin. Though something may be thought to be sin, it is God's word that has the authority to say so.

Christianity abandoned Sabbath Keeping immediately after the Resurrection on the instruction of the Apostles and the First and Second Century Christian Fathers. It was excommunicated as an anti-Christian heresy. The First and Second Century Christian Fathers were direct disciples of the Apostles. They did NOT make this up themselves. There is a clear, unambiguous and unequivocal condemnation of Sabbath Keeping among those Early Christians. No sizable group of Christians kept the Sabbath until the Seventh Day Baptists revived the practice in the 1650's.

Why observe it? God said it is holy. So it would be better to, or to at least try.

Or what?

"So it would be better to, or to at least try." That sounds like the PRECISE reason that Christianity excommunicated Sabbath Keeping as a destructive anti-Christian heresy. And why they called them "hypocrites." Trying to put the yoke of the useless and obsolete Mosaic Law back onto Christians is a horrible sin. Paul made that absolutely crystal clear in Galatians. Just that one statement alone indicates a lack of faith in the Resurrection and the Gospels. Sabbath Keeping ALWAYS leads to a denigration of the Resurrection and the Gospels. History is on my side on that statement. Seventh Day Adventism is just the logical and inevitable end result of this thinking: Complete rejection of the Divinity of Christ and the Trinity; Complete rejection of a Full Atonement on the Cross; Complete rejection of the Resurrection.
 
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LarryP2

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But no it doesn't effect salvation.
And yet that is precisely where it always ends. The following is the answer to the "or what" question that was asked in the last post:

Testimonies for the Church
Volume Two, page 693, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: No Probation After Christ Comes

As we have followed down the chain of prophecy, revealed truth for our time has been clearly seen and explained. We are accountable for the privileges that we enjoy and for the light that shines upon our pathway. Those who lived in past generations were accountable for the light which was permitted to shine upon them. Their minds were exercised in regard to different points of Scripture which tested them. But they did not understand the truths which we do. They were not responsible for the light which they did not have. They had the Bible, as we have; but the time for the unfolding of special truth in relation to the closing scenes of this earth's history is during the last generations that shall live upon the earth. Special truths have been adapted to the conditions of the generations as they have existed. The present truth, which is a test to the people of this generation, was not a test to the people of generations far back. If the light which now shines upon us in regard to the Sabbath of the fourth commandment had been given to the generations in the past, God would have held them accountable for that light. When the temple of God was opened in heaven, John saw in holy vision a class of people whose attention was arrested and who were looking with reverential awe at the ark, which contained the law of God. The special test upon the fourth commandment did not come until after the temple of God was opened in heaven. Those who died before the light was given upon the law of God and the claims of the fourth commandment were not guilty of the sin of violating the seventh-day Sabbath. The wisdom and mercy of God in dispensing light and knowledge at the proper time, as the people need it, is unsearchable. Previous to His coming to judge the world in righteousness, He sends forth a warning to arouse the people and call their attention to their neglect of the fourth commandment, that they may be enlightened, and may repent of their transgression of His law, and prove their allegiance to the great Lawgiver. He has made provision that all may be holy and happy if they choose. Sufficient light has been given to this generation, that we may learn what our duties and privileges are, and enjoy the precious and solemn truths in their simplicity and power.

To show Ellen's dependence on 1844, I will include this quote from Early Writings, Pg 42-43:
Sabbath, March 24, 1849, we had a sweet and very interesting meeting with the brethren at Topsham, Maine. The Holy Ghost was poured out upon us, and I was taken off in the Spirit to the city of the living God. Then I was shown that the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ relating to the shut door could not be separated, and that the time for the commandments of God to shine out with all their importance, and for God’s people to be tried on the Sabbath truth, was when the door was opened in the most holy place in the heavenly sanctuary, where the ark is, in which are contained the ten commandments. This door was not opened until the mediation of Jesus was finished in the holy place of the sanctuary in 1844. Then Jesus rose up and shut the door of the holy place, and opened the door into the most holy, and passed within the second veil, where He now stands by the ark, and where the faith of Israel now reaches.

I saw that Jesus had shut the door of the holy place, and no man can open it; and that He had opened the door into the most holy, and no man can shut it (Revelation 3:7, 8); [see page 86. See also appendix.] and that since Jesus has opened the door into the most holy place, which contains the ark, the commandments have been shining out to God’s people, and they are being tested on the Sabbath question.

I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened. I saw that Satan was tempting some of God’s people on this point. Because so many good Christians have fallen asleep in the triumphs of faith and have not kept the true Sabbath, they were doubting about its being a test for us now.
Ellen White's soteriology revolves around the Sabbath she failed to keep Holy according the Law that ordained it. This is evident in these quotes provided below that show the Adventist formula for 'salvation' to be compliance with the old covenant from Mount Sinai you don't acknowledge God's redemption from:
No one is saved who is a transgressor of the law of God, which is the foundation of his government in heaven and in earth. {RH June 17, 1890, par. 8}

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." 1 Samuel 2:30. {6T 356.4}

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}

“God requires of all His subjects obedience, entire obedience to all His commandments. He demands now as ever perfect righteousness as the only title to heaven. Christ is our hope and our refuge. His righteousness is imputed only to the obedient!” (Review & Herald, Sept. 21, 1886)

"Christ does not lessen the claims of the law. In unmistakable language He presents obedience to it as the condition of eternal life—the same condition that was required of Adam before his Fall. The Lord expects no less of the soul now than He expected of man in Paradise, perfect obedience, unblemished righteousness. The requirement under the covenant of grace is just as broad as the requirement made in Eden—harmony with God’s law, which is holy, just, and good." (Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 391)

And if you are going to keep the Sabbath, the standard is very clear: "Your righteousness MUST EXCEED the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees". (Matthew 5:17-20). Here is a good start on developing your Sabbath Keeping techniques, written by modern-day pharisees. You should note that throwing a light switch requires imposition of the Death Penalty:

https://www.rabbinicalassembly.org/...020/electrical-electronic-devices-shabbat.pdf

No two ways around it: The Early Christians saw the PRECISE danger in not vigorously expelling the Sabbath Keeping heresy from the Church. It is incompatible with the Gospel, the Full Atonement of the Cross, and the Resurrection:

"Seventh Day Adventists deny the resurrection by observing the Sabbath. We come to church on Sunday, the Lord's Day, to worship Him who "died for our sins, and rose again for our justification." We worship a living Savior, and with thanksgiving, can sing:
"He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today!"
If I worship Christ on Saturday I deny that His work is finished, that He is a resurrected, living Savior. "
http://www.abaptistvoice.com/English/Articles/Miscelanous/WhyIAmABaptist.htm



The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians
For if we still live according to the Jewish law, we acknowledge that we have not received. grace. ...... If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day...."

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0105.htm

"They teach that because Christ rose on the first day of the week, Sunday (Matt. 28), then this is the "New Day" of rest and worship, in honor of the Resurrection and the finished work of Redemption. They also point out that the first out-pouring of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:1-4) was on Sunday. They refer to Sunday as "The Lord's Day"."
http://www.williambranhamhomepage.org/truesabb.htm

It's remarkable when it is pointed out to Sabbath Keepers what is actually entailed by "the Keeping of the Sabbath," they ALWAYS have the fascinating response that it does not jibe with their own interpretation of what is required! And yet Jesus declared that you must EXCEED the standard of the Pharisees. No personal interpretation that falls below the Pharisees is permissible. And all modern fraudulent Sabbath "Keepers" fall hopelessly below the standard.
 
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FredVB

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My original post with starting this thread was a question, and that regarding something in the Bible. I never saw that there was anything wrong with a Christian asking others about something in the Bible. But there are these who are argue with me and I am accused of things, about who I am and what I am doing. What I asked with wanting explanation from the Bible never yet gets answered, though I still mentioned it. Nothing seems to be in the Bible to address it. So instead with the arguments things are said about me, and history is appealed to, even with credit to the Eastern Orthodox church for our new testament of the Bible. And no one contests that. Why? Though there were councils, many of the churches well before a council defined it were using the same new testament books that we do now, it needed to be defined as some churches still had some difference in what they regarded for the new testament books. God provides it so that we have it now, not the church or council itself. And no one contests that support for the Eastern Orthodox church is used as the basis of arguing. Why? The arguments are as if what the Bible says has no importance except with those who compiled it, as if what they said did not need basis from the Bible. There is something wrong with that.

Everything argued, though it is off-topic, is about what is wrong with Seventh Day Adventism, though I have been clarifying that I am not Seventh Day Adventist. It does not address the original post. Sabbath rest itself should not lead to that Adventism. It wouldn't for me. What is the position on Seventh Day Baptists, what issue is there with them? Why are they around now as Baptists if their practice leads to being Adventists? It just doesn't.

I was warning with what I said that it is not known what I am doing, and that it is not good to judge what I am purchasing, and listing it would get it wrong. And yet saying it was 100% certain that I do some things was still said, though I warned to not judge. And what was said had it wrong. It clearly was not certain. No, I don't even have my own computer access. Why with that certainty that is claimed should I then give credence to other claims from the same?

And so there was accusation that I was hypocritical, and I never said anything about myself, there was only that which was said about me. I am not the one judging others, and I never said something for that. There is the question I asked, that does not get answered using scripture that applies to it.

And injustices are listed, nothing is done differently with knowing that? That is wrong.

I don't know why the passage from Nehemiah was shown. Is it being said Nehemiah was a hypocrite?

The first Christians were observing the Sabbath. They went to the Temple. And there was observation continuing up to Acts 15:21.

I don't even see Sunday being definitely mentioned for believers to be observing. But I am not saying anything critical of that observance.

It would be wrong to say someone is saved with worshiping on Sundays.

There is no claim, from my question or my communication, that with not observing sabbaths there is not salvation. Nothing I said is with another gospel, it is all with salvation through Christ.

When Christ said that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven, it doesn't apply to you?
 
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LarryP2

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God provides it so that we have it now, not the church or council itself. And no one contests that support for the Eastern Orthodox church is used as the basis of arguing. Why? The arguments are as if what the Bible says has no importance except with those who compiled it, as if what they said did not need basis from the Bible. There is something wrong with that.

The Church Councils made decisions on whether certain doctrines comported with orthodox christianity, as taught by the Apostles. They also made the decisions on which books and epistles belonged in the Bible. Amazingly, there is NO dispute that they did their job correctly with the biblical canon. The christian orthodox church has NEVER relied solely upon the Biblical texts for doctrinal support. Sabbath Keeping is one in particular: The Apostles and their followers jettisoned Sabbath Keeping the morning of the Resurrection and orthodox Christianity has ALWAYS celebrated the Resurrection on Sundays. They were no longer Jews, obviously, but a whole new belief system had taken root. The Sabbath was obsolete and dead and moldy. The central doctrine of orthodox christianity was declared at the first Christian Council: the Nicene Creed. They declared at the Council of Laodicea that Sabbath Keeping was an anti-Christian heresy that must be vigorously excommunicated from orthodox Christianity. Councils had both the right and the duty to define orthodox Christianity, based on the commission that Jesus gave his disciples. What is very ODD, though, is that the same people who think the Councils got it 100 percent right when it came to the biblical canon; are just as sure those councils got it 100 percent WRONG on Sabbath Keeping. That is a remarkable feat: given that the very same Bishops made the decision on both!

What is the position on Seventh Day Baptists, what issue is there with them? Why are they around now as Baptists if their practice leads to being Adventists? It just doesn't.

SDB is probably the only Sabbatarian organization I would call orthodox christian in all of its doctrines. It has successfully managed to walk "the tightrope" between legalism and Christianity. The rest of the Baptists in the world look at this strange and rather useless "accomplishment" of the Seventh Day Baptists and wonder: "Why do they bother?"


I don't know why the passage from Nehemiah was shown. Is it being said Nehemiah was a hypocrite?

To show Nehemiah's scathing denunciation of hypocritical Sabbath "Keepers" causing their "manservants and maidservants" to work on Sabbath, all the time pretending that 75 percent of the 4th Commandment does not apply to them. Sabbath Keepers as a rule, tend to fairly ooze with self-righteous, unctuous and dishonest hypocrisy.

The first Christians were observing the Sabbath. They went to the Temple. And there was observation continuing up to Acts 15:21.

Sabbath keeping was jettisoned on the morning of the Resurrection by Christianity. That is a matter of undisputed historical record. Christians NEVER as a group "observed the Sabbath," they were at the Temple only to evangelize. Acts 15 removed any doubt that Gentile Christians would not keep the Mosaic Law, including the Sabbath. Gentiles never kept the Sabbath before, during or after the time of Christ, since they were under their own set of laws that had nothing to do with the Mosaic Covenant, the 7 Noahide Laws.

I don't even see Sunday being definitely mentioned for believers to be observing. But I am not saying anything critical of that observance.

History is absolutely clear: Christianity jettisoned Sabbath Keeping the morning of the Resurrection, and did so on the command of the Apostles. The First and Second Century Christian Fathers were unanimous and vocal: Sabbath Keeping is an anti-Christian heresy that is in total opposition to the Gospel. That is a matter of undisputed history. Seventh Day Adventism has well known these facts for over 140 years, and have never acknowledged, let alone addressed, let alone contested, let alone disputed, let alone refuted them!

Maybe they know something you don't! Maybe their absolute silence in the face of these facts being racked down their throat for 140 years says a LOT about the credibility of Sabbath Keeping.


There is no claim, from my question or my communication, that with not observing sabbaths there is not salvation. Nothing I said is with another gospel, it is all with salvation through Christ.

Actually, even posting a thread that discusses the decision of an orthodox Christian Council - accepted by all of mainstream Christianity - calling Sabbath Keeping an anti-Christian heresy gets the following response from the unhinged, satanic, rabid, Salvation by Perfect Sabbath Keeping crowd. Don't kid yourself how the complete rejection of the Resurrection and Grace flows directly from Sabbath Keeping:

You are going to the lake of fire for this thread.

Nice, huh? Not only is Perfect Sabbath Keeping required by this insane lunatic, but even truthfully stating what a Church Council has said about the Sabbath means you are going to burn! That's the nasty, evil, Pharisaic and dishonest attitude that you get from perfect Sabbath Keeping! And here's another example, even after it has been demonstrated that Sabbath Keeping was seen unanimously by the First and Second Century Fathers as completely incompatible with Grace:

Im not even going to comment on this thread, it is too blasphemous. I shocked the mods are evenly allowing this nonsense.

"Blasphemy" = "honestly citing history!" That just goes to show how Sabbath Keeping is - with a few exceptions like SDB - the lunatic product of modern-day Hitler-wannabees spewing foul and dishonest evil.


99.99999999 percent of Sabbath Keepers, except for Seventh Day Baptists, say that Sabbath Keeping is a condition of Salvation. That is PRECISELY why the Council of Laodicea declared that Sabbath Keeping was an anti-Christian heresy that must be excluded from the Body of Christ. The chances of any Sabbath Keeper ending up as a Seventh Day Baptist instead of one of the noxious Sabbatarian cults is either slim or none.

When Christ said that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven, it doesn't apply to you?

He was referring to ANYONE that attempts to gain salvation by following the law, instead of following Christ and the Gospel. The Grace that he provided did away with any need to keep the law better than the scribes and Pharisees. Here's a great article explaining how orthodox Christians should look at the 4th Commandment:

We see the "first fruits" of that new creation in Christ's resurrection. So on Sunday, we reflect on the fact that God has purposes for us and for creation. And that is exciting! As a Christian, you know that God is going to raise your body from the dead, and that resurrection body is going to be much better than the current body you have now—no sickness, no deformities. The earth is going to go through the same resurrection process. Think about this—What does a resurrected Grand Canyon look like?
Second, in Jesus' resurrection, we see God's "rest" from redemption, or "new creation." But then Adam fell into sin, and so God got up from His Sabbath rest, and He started to work again—this time His work was not on creation but on redemption, toward a new creation. And when Jesus rose from the dead, that work was completed. So, Jesus' resurrection was a new Sabbath, a rest from the work of redemption. 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2014/may/sabbath-jesus-and-christians.html

I have never met a Sabbath Keeper that was remotely capable of grappling with the full effects of the Resurrection.99.99999999 percent of time, Sabbath Keeping is a thinly-disguised and transparent rejection of the Resurrection, the New Covenant, Grace, and Salvation by Faith.
 
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from scratch

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My original post with starting this thread was a question, and that regarding something in the Bible. I never saw that there was anything wrong with a Christian asking others about something in the Bible. But there are these who are argue with me and I am accused of things, about who I am and what I am doing. What I asked with wanting explanation from the Bible never yet gets answered, though I still mentioned it. Nothing seems to be in the Bible to address it. So instead with the arguments things are said about me, and history is appealed to, even with credit to the Eastern Orthodox church for our new testament of the Bible. And no one contests that. Why? Though there were councils, many of the churches well before a council defined it were using the same new testament books that we do now, it needed to be defined as some churches still had some difference in what they regarded for the new testament books. God provides it so that we have it now, not the church or council itself. And no one contests that support for the Eastern Orthodox church is used as the basis of arguing. Why? The arguments are as if what the Bible says has no importance except with those who compiled it, as if what they said did not need basis from the Bible. There is something wrong with that.

Everything argued, though it is off-topic, is about what is wrong with Seventh Day Adventism, though I have been clarifying that I am not Seventh Day Adventist. It does not address the original post. Sabbath rest itself should not lead to that Adventism. It wouldn't for me. What is the position on Seventh Day Baptists, what issue is there with them? Why are they around now as Baptists if their practice leads to being Adventists? It just doesn't.

I was warning with what I said that it is not known what I am doing, and that it is not good to judge what I am purchasing, and listing it would get it wrong. And yet saying it was 100% certain that I do some things was still said, though I warned to not judge. And what was said had it wrong. It clearly was not certain. No, I don't even have my own computer access. Why with that certainty that is claimed should I then give credence to other claims from the same?

And so there was accusation that I was hypocritical, and I never said anything about myself, there was only that which was said about me. I am not the one judging others, and I never said something for that. There is the question I asked, that does not get answered using scripture that applies to it.

And injustices are listed, nothing is done differently with knowing that? That is wrong.

I don't know why the passage from Nehemiah was shown. Is it being said Nehemiah was a hypocrite?

The first Christians were observing the Sabbath. They went to the Temple. And there was observation continuing up to Acts 15:21.

I don't even see Sunday being definitely mentioned for believers to be observing. But I am not saying anything critical of that observance.

It would be wrong to say someone is saved with worshiping on Sundays.

There is no claim, from my question or my communication, that with not observing sabbaths there is not salvation. Nothing I said is with another gospel, it is all with salvation through Christ.

When Christ said that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven, it doesn't apply to you?
Who's hosting the pity party for you that you keep inviting us to and what should we bring if anything? Is it RSVP?
 
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FredVB

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My original post with starting this thread was a question, and that regarding something in the Bible. I never saw that there was anything wrong with a Christian asking others about something in the Bible. But there are these who are argue with me and I am accused of things, about who I am and what I am doing. What I asked with wanting explanation from the Bible never yet gets answered, though I still mentioned it. Nothing seems to be in the Bible to address it.

The Church Councils made decisions on whether certain doctrines comported with orthodox christianity, as taught by the Apostles. They also made the decisions on which books and epistles belonged in the Bible. Amazingly, there is NO dispute that they did their job correctly with the biblical canon. The christian orthodox church has NEVER relied solely upon the Biblical texts for doctrinal support. Sabbath Keeping is one in particular: The Apostles and their followers jettisoned Sabbath Keeping the morning of the Resurrection and orthodox Christianity has ALWAYS celebrated the Resurrection on Sundays. They were no longer Jews, obviously, but a whole new belief system had taken root. The Sabbath was obsolete and dead and moldy. The central doctrine of orthodox christianity was declared at the first Christian Council: the Nicene Creed. They declared at the Council of Laodicea that Sabbath Keeping was an anti-Christian heresy that must be vigorously excommunicated from orthodox Christianity. Councils had both the right and the duty to define orthodox Christianity, based on the commission that Jesus gave his disciples. What is very ODD, though, is that the same people who think the Councils got it 100 percent right when it came to the biblical canon; are just as sure those councils got it 100 percent WRONG on Sabbath Keeping.

SDB is probably the only Sabbatarian organization I would call orthodox christian in all of its doctrines. It has successfully managed to walk "the tightrope" between legalism and Christianity.

To show Nehemiah's scathing denunciation of hypocritical Sabbath "Keepers" causing their "manservants and maidservants" to work on Sabbath, all the time pretending that 75 percent of the 4th Commandment does not apply to them. Sabbath Keepers as a rule, tend to fairly ooze with self-righteous, unctuous and dishonest hypocrisy.

Sabbath keeping was jettisoned on the morning of the Resurrection by Christianity. That is a matter of undisputed historical record. Christians NEVER as a group "observed the Sabbath," they were at the Temple only to evangelize. Acts 15 removed any doubt that Gentile Christians would not keep the Mosaic Law, including the Sabbath.

Actually, even posting a thread that discusses the decision of an orthodox Christian Council - accepted by all of mainstream Christianity - calling Sabbath Keeping an anti-Christian heresy gets the following response from the unhinged, satanic, rabid, Salvation by Perfect Sabbath Keeping crowd. Don't kid yourself how the complete rejection of the Resurrection and Grace flows directly from Sabbath Keeping

Nice, huh? Not only is Perfect Sabbath Keeping required by this insane lunatic, but even truthfully stating what a Church Council has said about the Sabbath means you are going to burn! That's the nasty, evil, Pharisaic and dishonest attitude that you get from perfect Sabbath Keeping!

"Blasphemy" = "honestly citing history!" That just goes to show how Sabbath Keeping is - with a few exceptions like SDB - the lunatic product of modern-day Hitler-wannabees spewing foul and dishonest evil.

99.99999999 percent of Sabbath Keepers, except for Seventh Day Baptists, say that Sabbath Keeping is a condition of Salvation.

The chances of any Sabbath Keeper ending up as a Seventh Day Baptist instead of one of the noxious Sabbatarian cults is either slim or none.

He was referring to ANYONE that attempts to gain salvation by following the law, instead of following Christ and the Gospel.

I have never met a Sabbath Keeper that was remotely capable of grappling with the full effects of the Resurrection.99.99999999 percent of time, Sabbath Keeping is a thinly-disguised and transparent rejection of the Resurrection, the New Covenant, Grace, and Salvation by Faith.

You will have your opinion, but I will side with believers who have the word of God, the Bible, as their source of doctrine. There were hundreds of years between Christ's resurrection, and the Council of Nicea. I looked at information on it online and nothing of the Sabbath is mentioned. The Council of Laodicea was not the same council, being later on. Though they made a definitive statement on what are the books of the new testament of the Bible, it affected a few churches, but there were many that were already using those books for the new testament, for a long time. The councils did not put it together. The word of God was always the word of God, since first being written.

Since Seventh Day Baptists are orthodox, as you say, when I merely ask about passages speaking of gentiles in latter times observing Sabbath, why is there then just argument against Adventism? It is evidently your background, which you wish to reject with effective argument, but I have kept saying that is not my position. Even if overwhelming numbers saying something for the Sabbath are Adventist, it does nothing to answer my questions. So you would say, when I asked about it, chances are slim to none that I won"t wind up in a Sabbath keeping cult. But I am a Christian believer that believes and talks about the the gospel of Christ, with the needed faith and repentance, including the atonement and the resurrection. I don't buy it that true believers lose the essential faith and with it their salvation. I even expressed interest to know if Seventh Day Baptists are in my area. So what basis is there to say that about the likelihood of how I will wind up? There is no rejection, disguised or transparent, of the Resurrection, the New Covenant, Grace, and Salvation by Faith.

Your definitions are as legalistic as they can be, and in no way resemble things Christ has said. As Nehemiah criticized those who made servants work on the sabbath, he did not fault people who actually observed sabbath with resting. So it is indeed wrong for one to make servants work when they shouldn't. It may apply to those actually having servants, but it doesn't apply for servants of those who do not actually have servants. It is stretched too far to say all have servants, it is legalism as that of the Pharisees, but not the way Christ will define things. But with any abuse that comes to be known of others that is involve with choices, yours or mine, that should stop, with our choices to not support that anymore, and to be vocal for it to stop.

Though it is repeated that Sabbath keeping was jettisoned the morning of the Resurrection, that is missing in accounts shown in the Bible. If there is reference to Acts 15, with saying it shows gentiles would not observe anything of the Sabbath, then verse 21 in the chapter is not really dealt with.

The gentile believers would have gone to synagogues on the Sabbath. It was with what apostles said, with the Spirit of God, applying it to gentile believers, in Acts 15:21:

"For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

It would have been beyond useless to say this if it was not for gentile believers who were discussed there to do.

Though some speak with abuse, nothing coming from me is being abusive, and I don't condone it.

You said, "Don't kid yourself how the complete rejection of the Resurrection and Grace flows directly from Sabbath Keeping." With my interest, and asking questions, I never said anything for rejecting the Resurrection, or Yahweh God's grace. If that automatically follows, why has it not happened with Seventh Day Baptists? It just doesn't necessarily.
When Christ said that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven, it doesn't apply to you?
"He was referring to ANYONE that attempts to gain salvation by following the law, instead of following Christ and the Gospel."

So as it is for having Christ's righteousness, not to gain salvation by following law, why is that the case for you, and assumed not to be the case for me? Careful with the assumptions.
 
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FredVB

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The previous was very inappropriate. I have said nothing of what I do, or if I observe anything for sabbath. I have said nothing suggesting involvement with any organization. Nothing that I said suggests that I say what others should do, I am not even saying things about what I do. If I did say something as I asked in response about SDB it may just be for the seventh day, but speaking about sabbaths is from that word in the Bible passage. With it not answered I have thought a little about just reposting the OP. Response is basically against Adventism with rejecting that which was experienced earlier in life, assuming any discussion relating to the subject from the passage to be from involvement with that, or some cult as that is assumed to be.

What I did communicate was a question about a scripture passage, and saying that what councils said hundreds of years after Christ came is not adequately answering the question if there is not basis from the Bible, with it not authoritative on what the first generation of Christians did. Why should it not happen that someone, as I said I did, would read the Bible, and with not excluding sections, come across a passage, as I did, and choose to ask about it in forums that are for that, which are already being used?

There is no organization, or anything here in which to funnel anyone. And I am getting no messages about it. And that does not concern me. I just would have been content to have answers with scripture passages to have conclusions about the scripture passages I ask about.

What "decision" was reached, I don't know it from what Jesus said, what is it that was said, where is it found? And from Paul it was said there is not something in these things binding on all of us in Christ, but that we should in no way judge each other in these things, what more of any "decision" was from him?

And I said nothing about not liking Christ's righteousness, that was an assumption being made.
 
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Sophrosyne

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People who tell me the Sabbath is Holy as an argument to keep it and then when we question them find out they literally throw out anything in the process of keeping it that makes it a very hard perhaps even impossible task so they can comfortable be seen as keeping it are like someone who comes to the altar and when asked if they have any sins (regarding the Sabbath) they smile and say no.... I'm the best at keeping the Sabbath, the top 1% on making it absolutely Holy to the Utmost. I make sure every jot and tittle of the Sabbath is done properly...

To put it simple I find it hypocritical to come here and tell people we need to keep the Sabbath when these people are partially responsible for at the least encouraging and the most FORCING others to break the Sabbath because of their actions/habits/needs. In other words the bit about not allowing slaves to work is because if you BELIEVE keeping the Sabbath is proper you should BELIEVE that no actions you are involved in will have ANYONE else breaking it.

What we have to these folks is two sabbaths... one for them and one for everyone else. The one for them must be kept the one for everyone else can be broken because these folks are already breaking the sabbath making them break it even more is no big deal.

I've seen these Sabbath promoters put the Sabbath on the level of Thievery, Adultery, even Murder. If they are equating it as the same then they are encouraging others who are murdering (Sabbath breaking) to murder even more (break the Sabbath worse) after all one more murder isn't going to make any different to these people (Sabbath breaking). You can swap in stealing, adultery, and other of the 10 commandments in the equation for effect.

Hypocrisy abounds on what Holy means concerning the Sabbath.
 
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FredVB

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from scratch said:
No but there are certain undeniable evidences for those who understand.

Of course this didn't apply to anything.

Sophrosyne said:
People who tell me the Sabbath is Holy as an argument to keep it and then when we question them find out they literally throw out anything in the process of keeping it that makes it a very hard perhaps even impossible task so they can comfortable be seen as keeping it are like someone who comes to the altar and when asked if they have any sins (regarding the Sabbath) they smile and say no.

This neglects that it is not merely people saying the Sabbath is holy, Yahweh said exactly that as shown in scriptures, in various place, as it is in Exodus 16:23, Exodus 20:11, and Exodus 31:15. This means there is something holy about the time itself for our observation to Yahweh, regardless of whether any do something or anything for it or how they do it. It is said in the scriptures.

When I started the thread I was asking about passages, I had some uncertainty, and wanted answers fron others to weigh them out. I didn't get answers to understand the passages differently, I got accusations instead about an agenda, none of which was true, and ultimately, while I started trying to be more careful with what I do on the Sabbath, I became more seriously taking it into account, as those against it weren't answering what I asked for but only accusing, so it drove me to being careful with it that way.


To put it simple I find it hypocritical to come here and tell people we need to keep the Sabbath when these people are partially responsible for at the least encouraging and the most FORCING others to break the Sabbath because of their actions/habits/needs. In other words the bit about not allowing slaves to work is because if you BELIEVE keeping the Sabbath is proper you should BELIEVE that no actions you are involved in will have ANYONE else breaking it.

What we have to these folks is two sabbaths... one for them and one for everyone else. The one for them must be kept the one for everyone else can be broken because these folks are already breaking the sabbath making them break it even more is no big deal.

I've seen these Sabbath promoters put the Sabbath on the level of Thievery, Adultery, even Murder. If they are equating it as the same then they are encouraging others who are murdering (Sabbath breaking) to murder even more (break the Sabbath worse) after all one more murder isn't going to make any different to these people (Sabbath breaking). You can swap in stealing, adultery, and other of the 10 commandments in the equation for effect.

Hypocrisy abounds on what Holy means concerning the Sabbath.

This is the accusatory approach I was dealing with. I came to this to figure out what I should do, with legitimate questions, and had these things said that were not true about me. I will still say it was said Sabbath is holy, but I don't tell others what to do.

As I do say, I seek basing all the things that are according to faith on all that I can gather from the scriptures, and when talking with other Christians about any of those things, they would argue contrary to such with an understanding of just a few passages, with those out of context or otherwise with faulty interpretation that would be contrary to other things shown for us in the scriptures. It applies to such as this.
 
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Joelthe vicious

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We get it, you guys are experts on prophesies. (because you have an extra prophet;))
If you or BobRyan had explained from Isa 56, about when God accepted burnt offering and sacrifices, you might understand what covenant age this prophesy is talking about.
All you see is the word Sabbath and you can add commentary as if covenants don't specify what God requires for righteousness.

The mention of God accepting burnt offerings and that His righteousness as 'soon to be revealed", puts that prophesy before God revealed righteousness by faith through Paul.

The fact being reveal to you today by clear scriptures is this truth; God's revealed righteousness is the gospel of Jesus Christ. God requires that men are to have faith. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation.
By failing to understand that the cross bridges the gap between the covenants
You have no choice but to serve under requirements of the law. The shameful fact is; You cant find Sabbath or the law as requirements under the New Covenant.
God said that no one would teach their neighbor what to believe, and only He would write directions and laws on every heart.

Eph 3:5

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Eph 3:6

That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

You don't like the Sabbath, hey?

Then don't like it and see from your not liking it how much you like or dislike the Lord of the Sabbath Day.
 
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Joelthe vicious

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When I started the thread I was asking about passages, I had some uncertainty, and wanted answers fron others to weigh them out. I didn't get answers to understand the passages differently, I got accusations instead about an agenda, none of which was true, and ultimately, while I started trying to be more careful with what I do on the Sabbath, I became more seriously taking it into account, as those against it weren't answering what I asked for but only accusing, so it drove me to being careful with it that way.

This is the accusatory approach I was dealing with. I came to this to figure out what I should do, with legitimate questions, and had these things said that were not true about me. I will still say it was said Sabbath is holy, but I don't tell others what to do.

As I do say, I seek basing all the things that are according to faith on all that I can gather from the scriptures, and when talking with other Christians about any of those things, they would argue contrary to such with an understanding of just a few passages, with those out of context or otherwise with faulty interpretation that would be contrary to other things shown for us in the scriptures. It applies to such as this.

Out of 221 words, 16 are the word ‘I’.
Out of 221 words, 2 times ‘I’ is not written but is supposed.
Out of 221 words, 22 are Auxiliary Verbs with Subject ‘I’.
Out of 221 words, 16 are Verbs / Participles with Subject ‘I’.
Out of 221 words, 4 are ‘about me’.
Out of 221 words, 60 words are about ‘I’ or ‘me’.
That is about every fourth word is about ‘I’ or ‘me’.
 
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Cribstyl

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You don't like the Sabbath, hey?

Then don't like it and see from your not liking it how much you like or dislike the Lord of the Sabbath Day.
Clue: I rest in the Lord of the Sabbath. As a Christian I know for sure that Sabbath is a sign of the Mosaic Covenant.
Day or days of worship and addressed by Paul several times. Hey Joelthe vicious,Let's have a conversation before you misrepresent me.
 
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FredVB

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Joelthe vicious said:
Out of 221 words, 16 are the word ‘I’.

Out of 221 words, 2 times ‘I’ is not written but is supposed.

Out of 221 words, 22 are Auxiliary Verbs with Subject ‘I’.

Out of 221 words, 16 are Verbs / Participles with Subject ‘I’.

Out of 221 words, 4 are ‘about me’.

Out of 221 words, 60 words are about ‘I’ or ‘me’.

That is about every fourth word is about ‘I’ or ‘me’.

Joelthe vicious said:
You don't like the Sabbath, hey?

Then don't like it and see from your not liking it how much you like or dislike the Lord of the Sabbath Day.

Cribstyl said:
Clue: I rest in the Lord of the Sabbath. As a Christian I know for sure that Sabbath is a sign of the Mosaic Covenant.

Day or days of worship and addressed by Paul several times. Hey Joelthe vicious,Let's have a conversation before you misrepresent me.

There is this basis to avoid the involvement with trolls. They are not good for actual engagement, if avoided they will just move on, and be gone, they come intending really to cause discord.

To focus on the OP about use of pronouns, happening after a great deal of false accusations, which really were false, with avoidance of dealing with what is actually said in verses that were mentioned, really doesn't deal with the topic of the thread at all.

When the thread was started there really was this sincere question, with desire to hear how others understood the verses with their beliefs. Since no one dealt with those, to show that Sabbath for future time including gentiles coming to Yahweh isn't meant in that way, not having any church to guide that way, it left it to be concluded that the verses do show this and there is no reason to say it is not meant.

From Isaiah 56:6 especially,
Also the foreigners who join themselves to Yahweh,
to serve him,
and to love Yahweh’s name,
to be his servants,
everyone who keeps the Sabbath from profaning it,
and holds fast my covenant;
I will bring these to my holy mountain,
and make them joyful in my house of prayer.

It was claimed that saying Sabbath is holy is pushed on others. But verses show Sabbath is already holy. How could it be holy? It only makes sense for it being holy to come to Yahweh, which isn't done as well when working on things distracting from that. So there is to be rest, but only in Christ is that really possible, as called for. So it is that Christ is Lord of the Sabbath.

My church hasn't been like that. But there were other reasons, not just this at all, to be looking to other churches. An SDA church was tried but it wasn't right, and another church that is right hasn't been found. And there was a Seventh Day Baptist that could be visited, but it is quite far to justify that, it didn't seem right for other reasons as well. So there is the same church to go to still, sometimes, while looking around at others.
 
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