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What is your Eschatological viewpoint? [Poll]

What is your Eschatological viewpoint?


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linux.poet

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No just pre-mill?
Yeah, I unfortunately had to compromise because of the limited amount of poll options and pre-mil got cut. In my mind if you believe in Pre-Millenialism you're likely to believe in Pre-trib, Mid-trib, Post-Trib, etc.
 
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Timtofly

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Yeah, I unfortunately had to compromise because of the limited amount of poll options and pre-mil got cut. In my mind if you believe in Pre-Millenialism you're likely to believe in Pre-trib, Mid-trib, Post-Trib, etc.
Thanks.

Yes, the Second Coming is pre-trib and premil. The church will not be here for either event. Otherwise the church would be taken away post millennium.
 
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linux.poet

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Yes, the Second Coming is pre-trib and premil. The church will not be here for either event. Otherwise the church would be taken away post millennium.
I think you mean the the Rapture is pretrib and premil?

My understanding of it is that the Church is Raptured pre-trib and returns at the Second Coming with Jesus. The Church is part of Christ's admin team to rule the world when he comes back at the Second Coming. Then the Millennium occurs with the Church ruling and reigning with Christ.

But perhaps we have different beliefs.
 
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keras

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the Church is Raptured pre-trib and returns at the Second Coming with Jesus.
Such a thing is never stated in the Bible.
To be 'raptured to heaven', means a human must become immortal, which does not happen until the Judgment after the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15
Any transformation of our mortal bodies before then; before the Book of Life is opened, is impossible.
 
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linux.poet

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Such a thing is never stated in the Bible.
To be 'raptured to heaven', means a human must become immortal, which does not happen until the Judgment after the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15
Any transformation of our mortal bodies before then; before the Book of Life is opened, is impossible.
Those who take the Pre-tribulation position believe that it is stated here:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 said:
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

Thus, we believe that those of us who are "alive and remain" will be transmuted into immortality at the Rapture and given glorified bodies.
 
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Timtofly

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I think you mean the the Rapture is pretrib and premil?

My understanding of it is that the Church is Raptured pre-trib and returns at the Second Coming with Jesus. The Church is part of Christ's admin team to rule the world when he comes back at the Second Coming. Then the Millennium occurs with the Church ruling and reigning with Christ.

But perhaps we have different beliefs.
That is why I am not pre-trib.

You all call it the rapture.

It is the Second Coming.

There is no verse in Scripture that separates the rapture from the Second Coming.
 
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keras

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Those who take the Pre-tribulation position believe that it is stated here:

Thus, we believe that those of us who are "alive and remain" will be transmuted into immortality at the Rapture and given glorified bodies.
Then you have believed a fable. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The Bible plainly tells us that we must endure until the end, which means until Jesus Returns. Then: only He is immortal during the Millennium.
ONLY after the Mill, when God sits in Judgment and the Book of Life is opened, will anyone receive immortality. For Eternity.
 
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linux.poet

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The Bible plainly tells us that we must endure until the end, which means until Jesus Returns. Then: only He is immortal during the Millennium.
ONLY after the Mill, when God sits in Judgment and the Book of Life is opened, will anyone receive immortality. For Eternity.
Can you cite Scripture references for this please?

If the Bible plainly says this, it shouldn't be hard to produce a quote of it plainly telling me said thing.
 
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keras

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Can you cite Scripture references for this please?

If the Bible plainly says this, it shouldn't be hard to produce a quote of it plainly telling me said thing.
Isaiah 65:20 ..a man aged 100 who dies, will be considered to have died in his youth...... Zechariah 8:4-5, Micah 4:1-5, +

All of Isaiah 65:18-25 prophesies about the Millennium period. People will be mortal and will be born and die, albeit without disease and as long lived as the Patriarchs.
Do not confuse Isaiah 65 :17 with the Millennium, that verse refers to Eternity, AFTER the Millennium. Basically verse 17, is a Promise of the new heavens and earth to come; After Jesus has reigned for a thousand years, Revelation 21:1

The teaching of anyone receiving immortality or 'glorified bodies', when Jesus Returns is not scriptural. ONLY at the GWT Judgment, after the Mill, and the Book of Life is opened, will anyone receive immortality. There cannot be mortal and immortal humans together.
 
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Zao is life

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The Eschatological viewpoints that are offered as poll options are derived from the Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose. So if you are confused about which one you believe, consulting that topic may be helpful.

As for me, I believe in Pre-tribulation - Futurism above because of Mark 13:32 and Matthew 24:36-37:



But perhaps you believe differently than me about this. What do you believe?
It's very difficult to give my beliefs a category.

I believe in a post-tribulation because the tribulation of apostles or saints is mentioned in Matthew 13:21 (Parallel: Mark 4:17); Matthew 24:9, 21 & 29 (Parallel Mark 13:19, 24); John 16:33; Acts 11:19; Acts 14:22; Acts 20:23; Romans 5:3; Romans 8:35; Romans 12:12; 2 Corinthians 1:4, 6 & 8; 2 Corinthians 2:4; 2 Corinthians 4:8; 2 Corinthians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 6:4; 2 Corinthians 7:4-5; 2 Corinthians 8:2; Ephesians 3:13; Philippians 1:16; Philippians 4:14; Colossians 1:24; 1 Thessalonians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 3:3-4 & 7; 2 Thessalonians 1:4, 6-7; 2 Timothy 1:8; 2 Timothy 3:11; 2 Timothy 4:5; Hebrews 10:32-33; 1 Peter 5:9; Revelation 1:9; Revelation 2:9-10, 22; Revelation 7:14;

The persecution of Jesus and of saints is mentioned in John 5:16; Matthew 5:10-12; John 15:20; Acts 22:4; Acts 26:11; 1 Corinthians 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:9; 2 Corinthians 4:9; Galatians 1:13 & 23; Galatians 4:29; Galatians 5:11; and of the woman who gave birth to the Messiah in Revelation 12:13.

Great tribulation (megas thlipsis) is only mentioned 3 times, and twice unambiguously in reference to the tribulation of the saints: Revelation 2:22; Revelation 7:14; 'Olivet Discourse': Matthew 24:21.

Tribulation experienced by non-Christians is only mentioned twice in the New Testament:-

1. Of all who do evil: Romans 2:9.
2. Of the world as repayment for bringing tribulation upon the saints: 2 Thessalonians 1:6.

(Sorry but you asked for scriptures, so you got scriptures :liturgy:)

So I believe that calling God's wrath that is to come upon the world by the term "the great tribulation" is a complete misnomer.

I'm a futurist who believes that the resurrection from the dead, the appearance of the man of sin, and most of the events written about in the Revelation lie in the future,

but I'm a historicist who believes that many Old Testament prophecies telling of the destruction of Babylon etc have been fulfilled in history and are not still future just because the same metaphor of sun being darkened, moon turning to blood and stars falling from heaven etc (among other metaphors) are used again in reference to the events leading to the return of Christ.

So I see the destruction of Babylon in history as a type of the destruction of Babylon the Great, etc, and I see Daniel 9:26-27 as referring directly to the destruction of both city and sanctuary and the crucifixion of the Messiah in the midst of the 70th week, so I see that historically too.

I believe that the AoD to come (Matthew 24:15) is one that will take place in the New Testament temple, and brought about by the man of sin, because the word hieron refers to the temple building in Jerusalem but the word naos referred to its actual sanctuary (holy place and holiest place), and the last time naos is used in reference to that temple is in the verses talking about the tearing of the veil in that holy place. After this naos is only used in reference to the New Testament temple (whenever it's referring to the temple of God). And the man of sin will seat himself up in the naos.

I believe in a literal millennium that will follow the return of Christ, but unlike most other Premillennialists, I believe it will commence at the same time as the NHNE.

So this forum doesn't have a category for me.
 
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Douggg

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Isaiah 65:20 ..a man aged 100 who dies, will be considered to have died in his youth...... Zechariah 8:4-5, Micah 4:1-5, +

All of Isaiah 65:18-25 prophesies about the Millennium period. People will be mortal and will be born and die, albeit without disease and as long lived as the Patriarchs.
Do not confuse Isaiah 65 :17 with the Millennium, that verse refers to Eternity, AFTER the Millennium. Basically verse 17, is a Promise of the new heavens and earth to come; After Jesus has reigned for a thousand years, Revelation 21:1

The teaching of anyone receiving immortality or 'glorified bodies', when Jesus Returns is not scriptural. ONLY at the GWT Judgment, after the Mill, and the Book of Life is opened, will anyone receive immortality. There cannot be mortal and immortal humans together.
Paul in 1Corinthians15:51-55 does not say that the change into incorruptible eternal life bodies happens after the millennial rule of Jesus.

The rapture/resurrection into incorruptible eternal life bodies happens before the great tribulation begins.
 
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keras

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Paul in 1Corinthians15:51-55 does not say that the change into incorruptible eternal life bodies happens after the millennial rule of Jesus.

The rapture/resurrection into incorruptible eternal life bodies happens before the great tribulation begins.
I and the scriptural truths, disagree with you.
Paul says that at the time of people receiving immortality, Death will be no more, Revelation 21:4 says that Death will be no more when the New heavens and Earth come.
Therefore; there will be death for humans until after the Millennium and Eternity begins.

It is not logical, sensible or scriptural for anyone to become immortal before Eternity.
 
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Douggg

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Paul says that at the time of people receiving immortality, Death will be no more,
Paul did not say Death in general will be no more in 1Corthinians15:51-55, but specifically to them who are changed into immortal eternity life bodies, Death is swallowed up in victory.
 
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keras

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Paul did not say Death in general will be no more in 1Corthinians15:51-55, but specifically to them who are changed into immortal eternity life bodies, Death is swallowed up in victory.
It is impossible for mortals to live alongside immortal people. Think about it - procreators living with people who cannot have children ; disease, accident prone people living with those who cannot die? Such a scenario cannot happen, because the former is in the physical world, and the latter is in the Spiritual world.
Your fanciful beliefs of a transformation to immortality for people when Jesus Returns, is false and can never happen.
 
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Douggg

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It is impossible for mortals to live alongside immortal people. Think about it - procreators living with people who cannot have children ; disease, accident prone people living with those who cannot die? Such a scenario cannot happen, because the former is in the physical world, and the latter is in the Spiritual world.
So you don't believe that Jesus is going live and reign, physically present, on this present earth, for a thousand years?

The issue of humans in mortal bodies and humans in immortal bodies, sexually interactive, resulting in having children is not addressed one way or the other.
 
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linux.poet

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I really don't think that immortal bodies can have sexual interactions with mortal ones.

Matthew 22:30 said:
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

The verses about children during the Millennium refer to the mortal, and likely Jewish, Tribulation survivors under the Pre-Trib model, and not to the Raptured Church. I think @keras ideas are interesting, but I'm not sure I can subscribe to them.
 
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keras

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So you don't believe that Jesus is going live and reign, physically present, on this present earth, for a thousand years?
Yes I do; that is exactly what will happen!
Jesus will Return and gather His people to Him , including the resurrected GT martyrs and reign for the next thousand years. Most, I think: all of those people, inc; those martyrs, will die before the end of the Millennium. That is the main reason that so many will fall for Satans lies when he is released. Revelation 20:7-8
The issue of humans in mortal bodies and humans in immortal bodies, sexually interactive, resulting in having children is not addressed one way or the other.
Because such a thing is so unreal and impossible, it didn't need to be.
I think @keras ideas are interesting, but I'm not sure I can subscribe to them.
What I present is what the Bible tells us. I an a messenger, what my name means.
Believe what the Bible says, not any so called; teacher. Sheep in wolves clothing, who want God to whisk them away from any trials and testing, who reject the Millennium reign of Jesus., and many other unbiblical fables.
 
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Douggg

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Yes I do; that is exactly what will happen!
Jesus, Who is eternal, will be living amongst mortals. So there goes your theory.
 
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Douggg

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Because such a thing is so unreal and impossible, it didn't need to be.
So why do you bring up something that has no bearing on when the rapture/resurrection into immortal eternal life bodies takes place?
 
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keras

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Jesus, Who is eternal, will be living amongst mortals. So there goes your theory.
Yes, He will reside in the Temple on Mt Zion. People will go to Him for instruction. Isaiah 2:1-5
But all of the rest of people and animals in the Millennium, must be mortal. Proved by Isaiah 65:20-25
So why do you bring up something that has no bearing on when the rapture/resurrection into immortal eternal life bodies takes place?
Because that does not happen until AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
 
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