What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[enoob57]

Is that sarcasm or do you really believe that?

That's the doctrine of Calvinism and no I do not believe in it.... I am a provisionist
SOTERIOLOGY 101 – A Professor and former 5-Point Calvinist Discussing the Doctrines of Salvation, Election, Predestination, and God's Amazing Grace.

 

[RickReads]

That's the doctrine of Calvinism and no I do not believe in it.... I am a provisionist
SOTERIOLOGY 101 – A Professor and former 5-Point Calvinist Discussing the Doctrines of Salvation, Election, Predestination, and God's Amazing Grace.

Those who did not know Jesus in life will be judged based on what they knew.

The downside is that they do not get the immunity given to believers.

 

[Clare73]

Why are you evasive about your denominational affiliation?

I enjoy telling people that I'm a Baptist Berean Charismatic Apostolic Pentecostal Church of God Mountain Assembly Pauline Quaker Messianiac.

Quaker? Do you pray out loud?

Theologically I am an (original Westminster Confession) Presbyterian.

Fellowship wise, I am a Southern Baptist. . .love those Baptists!

In case you didn't know a Messianiac is a Baptecostal Holy Roller who likes Jewish things and enjoys calling Jesus by His Hebrew transliterated name.

And FYI Calvin isn't misunderstood, he was wrong.

Calvinism is a non-Biblical doctrine that is foisted upon the Scriptures...

I'll have to take your word for it, since I don't know it anywhere well enough to argue for it.

 

[Clare73]

All men go to hell no matter what (Romans 5:18), except for the mercy of God to some.

You may believe what ever you like about God but we all will answer to the Scriptures

John 12:48 (KJV)
[48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

and the scripture is very clear about God's intent to fallen man

Ezekiel 18:32 (KJV)
[32] For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

and if God claims He has no pleasure in a thing then God did not do it or have responsibility of it

Isaiah 46:9 (KJV)
[9] Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
[10] Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
[11] Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Are you saying my statement is incorrect or untrue?

 

[RickReads]

Quaker? Go you pray out loud.

Theologically I am an (original Westminster Confession) Presbyterian.

Fellowship wise, I am a Southern Baptist. . .love those Baptists!

I'll have to take your word for it, since I don't know it anywhere well enough to argue for it.

Praise Jesus. LOL!

I love the Quakers. They worship God in stillness and complete silence. I felt the Holy Spirit in that church as intensely as I have anywhere else

 

[Clare73]

Calvinism is a non-Biblical doctrine that is foisted upon the Scriptures...

And FYI Calvin isn't misunderstood, he was wrong.

Can I rely on either of you to give me a precise statement of his that is contra-Biblical?

 

[misput]

Esau became a great nation. He's ok for a whacko.

Esau was no more whacko than you or I. If you know his history, he ended up loving Jacob. Even Pharoah was chosen for a purpose. None of this has anything to do with anyone being predestined for salvation or not. Only in the mind of the egotistical ignorant do we find those who believe God predestines individual salvation.

 

[RickReads]

Can I rely on either of you to give me a precise statement of his that is contra-Biblical?

I`m sure I could find things to hammer him about. I can do that to pretty much anyone. But I`m not interested. Theology of man is just too boring to get that carried away.

One thing I saw recently on this board is, It is alleged that Calvin doesn't talk about love.
Which would make sense since they see the election as a lottery.

 

[Clare73]

I`m sure I could find things to hammer him about. I can do that to pretty much anyone. But I`m not interested. Theology of man is just too boring to get that carried away.

One thing I saw recently on this board is, It is alleged that Calvin doesn't talk about love.
Which would make sense since they see the election as a lottery.

Okay, even if correct (though a red herring) that doesn't make him contra-Biblical.

 

[RickReads]

Esau was no more whacko than you or I. If you know his history, he ended up loving Jacob. Even Pharoah was chosen for a purpose. None of this has anything to do with anyone being predestined for salvation or not. Only in the mind of the egotistical ignorant do we find those who believe God predestines individual salvation.

Well, it's also found in the gospel and your remark illustrates why up till now I`ve always rejected the view that predestination is about events.

 

[RickReads]

Okay, even if correct (though a red herring) that doesn't make him contra-Biblical.

A couple of things come to mind but I don't feel like chasing it down today.

 

[misput]

The downside is that they do not get the immunity given to believers.

Where do you find this?

 

[RickReads]

Where do you find this?

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

[misput]

Well, it's also found in the gospel and your remark illustrates why up till now I`ve always rejected the view that predestination is about events.

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[misput]

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Sorry, I don't see the connection. Maybe you could explain.

 

[RickReads]

Sorry, I don't see the connection. Maybe you could explain.

Jesus is our propitiation. He gives us immunity from the penalties for our sins. Someone who never knew about Jesus doesn't get this benefit.

 

[enoob57]

Can I rely on either of you to give me a precise statement of his that is contra-Biblical?

I am speaking of the theological aspects of tulip... where would you like to start?
Total depravity is the first?

 

[enoob57]

Those who did not know Jesus in life will be judged based on what they knew.

The downside is that they do not get the immunity given to believers.

We know all know, have knowledge of, God by what He has made Romans 1:18-22 and I leave all judgment to the Son as The Father has...

 

[Clare73]

I am speaking of the theological aspects of tulip... where would you like to start?
Total depravity is the first?

Thanks, I was hoping for some specific statements of his that were contra-Biblical.

Or is it just his conclusions to which others object?

I just want to see what all the fuss is about.

As I understand it, Calvin's account of election and predestination is not original with him, but is found also in Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas, Luther and others.

So why is everyone on his case?

 

[enoob57]

Thanks, I was hoping for some specific statements of his that were contra-Biblical.

Or is it just his conclusions to which others object?

I just want to see what all the fuss is about.

As I understand it, Calvin's account of election and predestination is not original with him, but is found also in Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas, Luther and others.

So why is everyone on his case?

I am only against the doctrine that everyone calls calvinism= tulip ... you are correct about Augustine that is the origination of the doctrine and his roots were gnostic Manicheism. EDD exhaustive divine determinism is the foundational blocks of tulip. Everything is God's doing even sin...