What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[iwbswiaihl]

One reason I believe in Meticulous Providence is because Jesus Christ Meticulously orchestrated the Crucifixion himself. For this reason, I think you should also agree in Meticulous Providence...

Would you say that God Providentially determined the Selling of Joseph into Slavery? I would. Would you say that the Offering of the Children was Providentially governed by the Providence of God? I suspect you will agree...

Doesn't God do this in a way he is not the Author of Sin? How much Sovereignty is involved in God's Providence?

I will give you a chance to show off/ there is a direct Meticulous Providence verse to show your point on Joseph is true from scripture, where is it found? I will give you a hint, it contains two 00 in it.

 

[Cormack]

I will give you a chance to show off/ there is a direct verse to show your point is true from scripture, where is it found? I will give you a hint, it contains two 00 in it.

Acts chapter 2

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:​

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Acts chapter 4

The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
​

I’ll save @ReverendRV the googling effort.

 

[iwbswiaihl]

Acts chapter 2

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:​

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:​

I’ll save @ReverendRV the googling effort.

Not to be picky, but that misses the mark or the one I happen to memorized years ago and use quite often as a proof text on a point that is being made in the verse. Give another clue, It is about Joseph also. I will add another clue soon, the word I show will lead you right to it, MAYBE, and maybe is not the clue.

Ok, don't want to drag this out too long; the word for the final clue is about brothers

 

[iwbswiaihl]

Not to be picky, but that misses the mark or the one I happen to memorized years ago and use quite often as a proof text on a point that is being made in the verse. Give another clue, It is about Joseph also. I will add another clue soon, the word I show will lead you right to it, MAYBE, and maybe is not the clue.

Ok, don't want to drag this out too long; the word for the final clue is about brothers

Did you see the new clue at the end of the post: if not the clue is brothers You will love this verse, give up, I will tell you

 

[iwbswiaihl]

I'm sorry that you feel that way but I'm honestly not sure what you referring to. Can you clarify the comments you are referring to?

I am sorry, I was just funny you about the book. I should not have butted in on your conversation.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

You got it right bubba, makes more sense than anything I have heard on this thread lately : )

Ditto

 

[ReverendRV]

I see some copies of the Bible going very cheap tbh, but I’d say they’re worth every penny and wouldn’t make too many negative assumptions on that basis.



Okay. You believe in meticulous providence, then it’s very unfortunate and misleading to also write:



You believe God brought about the crucifixion first by general providence, and later you insist he did these things by meticulous providence. You can’t have it both ways though, reading up on the two terms helps show that.

General providence

the only wise God has chosen to exercise general rather than meticulous providence, allowing space for us to operate and for God to be creative and resourceful in working with us. It was solely God’s decision not to control every detail that happens in our lives.
​

Meticulous providence

According to meticulous providence, God ordains everything that happens. Even acts that we view as evil happen because God wants them to happen and serve a good purpose in God’s plan. Thus there are no such things as accidents or tragedies.
​

There’s no such thing as general providence if you already hold to meticulous providence, as meticulous providence covers absolutely everything. So yes, you do appear to believe in “sovereignty” how Calvinists misdefine that word, and yes you must believe that your choice to believe in Calvinism was in reality caused by the Primary mover, meaning God.

You’re blessed to be best, as I’ve shared before. God’s acted on your life and choices in a meticulous fashion so that you’re drawn into the great spiritual institute of Calvinism. You’re ontologically superior by virtue of Gods grace over and above the rest of the Christian world.

You might not feel this way, for example, a man might insist that he’s a very special boy, and he’s not a determinist, so this man can be mistaken about being a very special boys while rejecting Calvinism, and you could be extremely humble while “believing” in Calvinism.

Though it’s not an example of the Calvinist being logically consistent, because the logically consistent Calvinists have the arrogance problem I’ve already shared via Desiring God and other Calvinist groups.



Not “meticulously,” that’s the point where we don’t agree, you’re using general providence and meticulous providence as synonyms as if you can jump between either phrase, that’s not helpful though. You have denied general providence in favour of meticulous providence, that’s okay though, because that’s Calvinism.

I’m going to have to press you again though, because I need you to carry the weight of conversation clash by responding to many of my answered points. You could start with that post you’ve neglected (#525,) since I’m not one to let go of my own points while throughly answering yours.

No, I argue in Sequence. I can talk about General and Meticulous Providence and go back and forth in sequence...

 

[ReverendRV]

I will give you a chance to show off/ there is a direct Meticulous Providence verse to show your point on Joseph is true from scripture, where is it found? I will give you a hint, it contains two 00 in it.

Friend, I'm not here to show off. You will get to know me...

 

[misput]

Friend, I'm not here to show off. You will get to know me...

Anyone who takes on titles like reverend or father automatically sets of a red flag for me RV.

 

[enoob57]

I have read through this entire thread and the problem with it all is there are no absolutes assigned to terms... one claims to be a five point calvinist then denies the systematic of tulip being EDD exhaustive devine determinism... I would suppose this problem is found everywhere where as: I think, I feel, I see etc... God's Word is given in an objective source where we can leave subjectivity out but most do not...

 

[Clare73]

I have read through this entire thread and the problem with it all is there are no absolutes assigned to terms... one claims to be a five point calvinist then denies the systematic of tulip being EDD exhaustive devine determinism... I would suppose this problem is found everywhere where as: I think, I feel, I see etc... God's Word is given in an objective source where we can leave subjectivity out but most do not...

"I see" in regard to text can be Biblically demonstrated otherwise if one feels such is not correct.
In the absence of such demonstration, the meaning presented governs its discussion.

 

[misput]

Not when you link it back. . .

Same old song and dance. PS: You really think everyone who commits suicide is hell bound? Very shallow thinking Clare. I guess every girl who gets an abortion is hell bound also. Only David who is given plenty of time and a special visit from a prophet of God gets a free pass. This is why my mother often said, "me, myself and I, my son John, us 4 and no more " mocking people who though they were the only ones who had everything right. According to you, heaven is a very tiny place : )

 

[Clare73]

Same old song and dance. PS:
You really think everyone who commits suicide is hell bound?

Do I?. . .perhaps you could quote me.

Red herring.

Still falls somewhat short of Biblical demonstration giving merit to your assertion of my error in post #445. . .

 

[misput]

Not me brother I`m special.

These woods are full of them : )

 

[RickReads]

Anyone who takes on titles like reverend or father automatically sets of a red flag for me RV.

I think the initials RV are especially sinister and suspicious. Keep an eye on him.

 

[iwbswiaihl]

Friend, I'm not here to show off. You will get to know me...

I really wasn't disrespecting you with the words, show off, I noticed you had mentioned something about Joseph being Meticulous Providence and I don't know if you found the verse I said would prove you right

I'm sorry that you feel that way but I'm honestly not sure what you referring to. Can you clarify the comments you are referring to?

I think that twice I sent you something that was meant for another post, I will be more careful, I will quit teasing unless I know who for sure I am posting a reply to. Have a good night.

 

[RickReads]

I really wasn't disrespecting you with the words, show off, I noticed you had mentioned something about Joseph being Meticulous Providence and I don't know if you found the verse I said would prove you right


I think that twice I sent you something that was meant for another post, I will be more careful, I will quit teasing unless I know who for sure I am posting a reply to. Have a good night.

You're ok, I deserve it.

 

[RickReads]

.

 

[iwbswiaihl]

Friend, I'm not here to show off. You will get to know me...

I had noticed you had made a statement or someone may have mentioned you use Meticulous Providence about Joseph, and I wondered if you could tell me the verse that made you say that because I had memorized a verse that would prove your statement, I don't know if you saw my post on that, I just sat down, been out cutting grass. Anyway, here is the verse I am talking about when Joseph is talking to his brothers after they had come to Egypt for supplies, they thought because of what they had done that He was fixing to get his revenge, but instead he said this in Gen 50:20 But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive. This is one of my favorite verses to demonstrate Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

 

[misput]

oops, wrong post