What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[RickReads]

He is a staunch Arminian and a nice guy . He is just as dogmatic about his beliefs as most Calvinists.

Sounds like he has more to fear from Cormack. LOL!

 

[ReverendRV]

Whereas God would have not simple pity, but favour upon the Calvinist, wouldn’t he, @ReverendRV.

He has deterministically given those people the rare spiritual blessing of Calvinism, an ability to discern spiritual truths the likes of which most Christians worldwide have never received.
__________
Responding to that would probably be the easiest thing to write about.

Yes, Calvinists believe we're Saved by the Unmerited Favor of God, all Evangelicals believe this. Pity and Favor being mentioned, is not an assertion that the two Alone are the only factors. Thus there shouldn't be an assumption that when Pity Alone is mentioned by me, this means that I think it is the Lone factor of Election. I think it's safe to say that Pity was the motive for Election at least once. We could debate about the Logical Order of Pity and Favour, but do we have to? If Pity can be the reason for Election once, it can be a reason for Election every time. Never-the-less, there are reasons for Election. Perhaps you would say it's Faith; that's a possible reason. But I think it's not the reason because we are Chosen before we have done anything Good to deserve Election; and Believing is something Good we do. I think people Conflate Justification with Election. Justification is about our choice for God, but Election is about God's choice of us...

I would answer No to your second question. I usually don't like to discuss more than one Topic at a time...

 

[bmjackson]

I'm not an Arminian, and go with the early Quakers on this who said that God enlightens every man who comes into the world as meaning that every man gets a chance but they are called when God chooses. Then they operate their free will to respond or turn away.

 

[bmjackson]

I found out recently that one dark side of Calvinism that is kept quiet, is that God ordains some Christians to believe they are elect when they are not and they will find out presumably when it us too late. Nice.

 

[ReverendRV]

it will be ok even if he does. You've missed some pretty good Calvin roasts around here.

I don't talk to him. It will be up to y'all what to think about him. In my opinion, he is one reason that CARM is a bad place...

 

[RickReads]

I don't talk to him. It will be up to y'all what to think about him. In my opinion, he is one reason that CARM is a bad place...

You can put him on ignore. that sounds like the best course of action to me.

 

[Cormack]

Yes, Calvinists believe we're Saved by the Unmerited Favor of God, all Evangelicals believe this.

That’s not my point. I’m not asking about whether or not God saved you, my point is that God has sovereignly (how Calvinists use the word sovereign) chosen to save you into Calvinism.

He didn’t just choose that you’re to be saved, rather he decided to illuminate these deep soteriological facts to you, facts that the majority of the church can’t understand.

It’s not just that we don’t get it, we can’t get it. I’ve written a good few messages on this already in the topic, if you’d like you could find them.

You are ontologically and spiritually superior to your peers, wouldn’t you agree?

If you’re tempted to answer no, and then to point to the graceful means by which you learned about Calvinism, please check back at the how vs that problem I’ve already outlined.

How you have gained your superior spiritual life does not discount that you have gained superior spiritual life.

I hope someone can respond to the content of this argument. . .finally.

 

[ReverendRV]

He is a staunch Arminian and a nice guy . He is just as dogmatic about his beliefs as most Calvinists.

Tom?? He's a staunch Traditionalist. He is in no way Arminian. If you are talking about someone else, please forgive me...

 

[RickReads]

I don't talk to him. It will be up to y'all what to think about him. In my opinion, he is one reason that CARM is a bad place...

And who knows, depending on what he says I might stick up for you.

 

[ReverendRV]

That’s not my point. I’m not asking about whether or not God saved you, my point is that God has sovereignly (how Calvinists use the word sovereign) chosen to save you into Calvinism.

I wouldn't say that God Sovereignly chose to Save me into Calvinism; that doesn't make sense to me...

Jesus is YHWH, perhaps you could explain to him I am different?

 

[RickReads]

Tom?? He's a staunch Traditionalist. He is in no way Arminian. If you are talking about someone else, please forgive me...

Let's wait and see what happens. I`m not against you I just want to help you see who you really are.

 

[ReverendRV]

And who knows, depending on what he says I might stick up for you.

Y'all would be on similar sides, so it would take a while for you to notice why Calvinists don't like him...

 

[RickReads]

Y'all would be on similar sides, so it would take a while for you to notice why Calvinists don't like him...

Relax, I worked at a psychiatric hospital for 30 years. Reading people was part of my job.

 

[ReverendRV]

Relax, I worked at a psychiatric hospital for 30 years. Reading people was part of my job.

That's like a Super Power...

 

[Cormack]

I wouldn't say that God Sovereignly chose to Save me into Calvinism;

You believe there are actions and decisions that you have made outside of Gods sovereignty? I’m confident Calvinists believe God is “sovereign” over your choices.

 

[RickReads]

That's like a Super Power...

It's nothing without the help of the spirit of Christ.

 

[ReverendRV]

You believe there are actions and decisions that you have made outside of Gods sovereignty? I’m confident Calvinists believe God is “sovereign” over your choices.

I am not your average Calvinist. Anyway, the WCF CH 3 P1 says the Liberty of the Will is established as a Secondary Cause. Secondary or not, it is a distinct Causation; because although Primary and Secondary Causation agree the One deed will be committed, the motive of Primary and Secondary Causations can differ regarding the reason the One deed should be done. This demands that they be distinct; yet flow Concurrently...

 

[bmjackson]

I strongly recommend this book:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07VTS48L6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is dirt cheap and gives all the relevant ECF's quotes.

 

[Cormack]

I am not your average Calvinist. Anyway, the WCF CH 3 P1 says that the Liberty of the Will is established as a Secondary Cause.

Could you answer my question more plainly? I’ve asked if you believe that God’s sovereign over your choices and actions, which would include that moment where you became “not your average Calvinist.”

Yes or no, then your rational behind the whole point.

because although Primary and Secondary Causation agree about committing the One deed, the motive of the Primary and Secondary Causations can differ regarding the One deed.

Like saying “you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good.” I’m not meaning to upset that applecart of definitions, it’s here and it’ll be here for many generations to come, that doesn’t change the fact that God deterministically has his way when I reject Calvinism, and when you embrace what you call Calvinism.

Wouldn’t you agree to that? If you do, then yes, yes you believe that God is sovereign over your actions and choices, mine too.

You wouldn’t want to attribute your coming to Calvinism as a product of your own wisdom, intellect or righteousness, having these things over and above Christians who don’t want Calvinism.

 

[misput]

Are you sure about that?

So what is the context of Romans 5:12-21?
It would be the unrighteousness of all mankind (demonstrated in Romans 1:18-3:8 and concluded in Romans 3:9-20) and God's gift of righteousness, of "sin reigning in death (per Romans 6:23), and grace reigning through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 5:21)

And the unrighteousness of all mankind is due to the imputed guilt of Adam to all mankind (Romans 5:18), as demonstrated in Romans 5:12-14; i.e., all death is caused by sin against (covenantal) law (Romans 6:23), yet all died because of the guilt of sin when there was no covenantal law (i.e., Genesis 2:17; Mosaic law) to sin against causing their death.
So of what were they guilty which caused their deaths?
They were guilty of the imputed guilt of Adam, causing the condemnation of all mankind (Romans 5:18).
All those born of (the first) Adam are condemned by the imputed guilt of (the first) Adam, just as
all those reborn of (the second Adam) Christ, by faith are redeemed by the imputed righteousness of (the second) Adam (Romans 5:18-19), the first Adam being the pattern for the second Adam (!), Christ (Romans 5:14).
When corrupt human reasoning misappropriates the words of other humans, it is not surprising when it also misappropriates the word of God in Romans 5:12-21.

Methinks the pot is calling the kettle black ("out of context misinterpretation").

"Perdition" refers to spiritual and eternal destruction (Matthew 7:13; 2 Thessalonians 2:3),

He committed suicide in despair, murdering himself and breaking another commandment.

Only when murder is an act of repentance.

Agreed.
But it is in the job description of the word of God written where it does do so.

Literalism? . . .as in taking Scripture at its word.
Indeed, I am!

And finally, it falls to you to Biblically demonstrate your assertion of Biblical error, if it is to have any Biblical merit.

This is why I hang my hat on belief in the Lord, not on any interpretation of man, including me, who chase their tails like a bunch of dogs, no reflection on dogs : )