What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[QvQ]

Sin & guilt has the connotation we have done something wrong. When God said everything was very good we must understand that for there to be good there must be bad, just as for there to be up there must be down, positive vs negative. That is why God said He created evil,

If a person is born into darkness, he learns to operate, survive and even thrive in the dark by obeying the rules of darkness. There isn't any light or dark, there are only degrees of darkness. Being too dark gets him thumped whereas being just dark enough to get away with it is just for fun and profit.

Now he has it all figured out, how to play the game by the rules of dark. So one day while he is sitting around scheming on ways to win the lottery or make a killing on the stock market so he can buy a better class of friends, out of the corner of his eye he sees a flash of light . It captures his attention. It is fascinating and compelling. One fine day he wakes up, the sun is shining and he asks "Why me, Lord? What did I ever do to deserve loving you?"

 

[zoidar]

You are on the right track. Sin & guilt has the connotation we have done something wrong. When God said everything was very good we must understand that for there to be good there must be bad, just as for there to be up there must be down, positive vs negative. That is why God said He created evil, evil is just another word for bad, depending on how it is used. It is the natural order of all things.

Thanks!

I don't think there has to be bad for there to be good. I mean in heaven there will only be good. Also I don't believe God created evil. If the story of Lucifer is correct, he was the creator of evil.

Is it Isa 45:7 you think says God created evil?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
- KJV

I think the KJV's translation is an unfortunate one. I rather go with NASB.

The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.
— Isaiah 45:7

 

[Fervent]

Acknowledged.

To avoid creating a “wall of text”, I restricted the search to two specific criteria … the word “love” and the four Gospels. John 3:16 does not say “love”, it says “loved” so it was not quoted.

However, I did offer a nod to John 3:16 in the statement:

You may be able to produce a verse that either appears to say “God loves all men without exception” or may actually say “God loves all men without exception”.​

We could revisit the well worn arguments about the exact meaning of “world” in John 3:16 which COULD mean all men, but that is not the only legitimate honest exegetical reading of the text. Some respectable theologians believe “God loves his creation”, and other theologians believe that “God loves Jews (the chosen people) and non-Jews” (some from every nation, tribe and tongue rather than all without exception).

So even if John 3:16 is included, it is not as explicit a statement that God loves all as some think and claim.
1 Timothy 2:1-7 makes a better argument for “God loves everyone”.

That seems...rather thin, especially considering your inclusion of the rich young ruler which also properly says "loved," though the translation you selected renders it "felt a love." Restricting to a particular lexical form doesn't really seem to me to be a legitimate restriction if the goal is to establish what the gospels say about God's love, especially since you appear to have filtered it conceptually not purely lexically given the restriction of God's love.

As for whether it means God loves all or not, the discussions over what is entailed by "world" seem to me to be more driven by attempts to preserve a theology than to naturally hold much weight. The arguments that restrict it always seem to work backwards from the interpretation rather than being drawn from within the text.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Thanks!

I don't think there has to be bad for there to be good. I mean in heaven there will only be good. Also I don't believe God created evil. If the story of Lucifer is correct, he was the creator of evil.

Is it Isa 45:7 you think says God created evil?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
- KJV

I think the KJV's translation is an unfortunate one. I rather go with NASB.

The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.
— Isaiah 45:7

Correct since God is good and immutable there was no darkness prior to creation while God at the same time was/ is Good, Light, Love etc …

 

[misput]

Thanks!

I don't think there has to be bad for there to be good. I mean in heaven there will only be good. Also I don't believe God created evil. If the story of Lucifer is correct, he was the creator of evil.

Is it Isa 45:7 you think says God created evil?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
- KJV

I think the KJV's translation is an unfortunate one. I rather go with NASB.

The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.
— Isaiah 45:7

I like the NASB, probably the best translation we have. You are right about Heaven but the last time I checked this world is not heaven. I wish it were. What is the difference between calamity and evil or bad? Who created Lucifer?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I like the NASB, probably the best translation we have. You are right about Heaven but the last time I checked this world is not heaven. I wish it were. What is the difference between calamity and evil or bad? Who created Lucifer?

Everything God created was good , no exceptions. As free will agents both angels and man has the ability to love and obey God or rebel . Both angels and man chose to rebel which resulted in the fall, sin , evil etc …. That’s it in a nutshell . You can get real philosophical about it with lots of conjecture on the things scripture is silent on but when it’s silent I choose not to speculate. Otherwise it leads into much human philosophy as per Colossians 2:8.

hope this helps !!!

 

[misput]

Everything God created was good , no exceptions. As free will agents both angels and man has the ability to love and obey God or rebel . Both angels and man chose to rebel which resulted in the fall, sin , evil etc …. That’s it in a nutshell . You can get real philosophical about it with lots of conjecture on the things scripture is silent on but when it’s silent I choose not to speculate. Otherwise it leads into much human philosophy as per Colossians 2:8.

hope this helps !!!

Please explain what God meant when He said: The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.

 

[QvQ]

The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.

Please, if you please, include chapter and verse. I don't recognize that verse so I have no way to read it in context . Many of us use different Bibles and I like to read the verse in context in the Bible version I prefer
Thank you

 

[Fervent]

Please explain what God meant when He said: The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.

You have to remember who he was addressing, which is Cyrus who believed in a dualistic religion. God's words there are to state that He alone is God, nothing happens apart from His will.

Even what we consider evil is caused by God, but it is not actually evil in a moral sense because there is no evil in Him. So there God is saying all disasters and hardship are by His hand, because He alone is in control.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Please explain what God meant when He said: The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.

Darkness was created , not sin .

 

[misput]

Everything God created was good , no exceptions. As free will agents both angels and man has the ability to love and obey God or rebel . Both angels and man chose to rebel which resulted in the fall, sin , evil etc …. That’s it in a nutshell . You can get real philosophical about it with lots of conjecture on the things scripture is silent on but when it’s silent I choose not to speculate. Otherwise it leads into much human philosophy as per Colossians 2:8.

hope this helps !!!

Scripture is not silent on anything but we are blind and deaf on many things. Do you believe the Holy Spirit helps us to understand the word of God? I am certain He does me, otherwise I could never know what I Know. Not saying I have it all figured out but He is helping me in that direction.

 

[zoidar]

I like the NASB, probably the best translation we have. You are right about Heaven but the last time I checked this world is not heaven. I wish it were. What is the difference between calamity and evil or bad? Who created Lucifer?

Calamity is like an illness or earthquake that causes harm. It does not have to be of opposition to God. Evil on the other hand is always in opposition to God, doing what it can to destroy God's good work.

As the story goes God created Lucifer good, but he rebelled because of pride and fell, became evil - the accuser.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

When the angels were created the Bible is silent on unlike the creation of man which has much detail in the 6 days of . creation . This is one example and there are many others . Elijah and Enoch were taken up to heaven without dying yet scripture says it’s appointed once for man to die. Those details are not described in scripture.

 

[misput]

You have to remember who he was addressing, which is Cyrus who believed in a dualistic religion. God's words there are to state that He alone is God, nothing happens apart from His will.

Even what we consider evil is caused by God, but it is not actually evil in a moral sense because there is no evil in Him. So there God is saying all disasters and hardship are by His hand, because He alone is in control.

Good post. I have always thought it means God created the ability/likelihood for evil/sin/calamity/bad, not that He sinned Himself.

 

[misput]

Darkness was created , not sin .

Darkness is just another word for evil/bad/calamity/sin. God created Adam and Adam sinned. Is it called guilt by association? But I think it was just part of God's plan, which we must believe is a very good plan.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Darkness is just another word for evil/bad/calamity/sin. God created Adam and Adam sinned. Is it called guilt by association? But I think it was just part of God's plan, which we must believe is a very good plan.

It is sometimes but not all the time . Context determines its meaning .

darkness below has nothing to do with your definition above

Genesis 1:1-2
the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty,darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

 

[Fervent]

Good post. I have always thought it means God created the ability/likelihood for evil/sin/calamity/bad, not that He sinned Himself.

That's a fair interpretation as well. Though context wise, it's likely addressing the Persian view that evil exists because of a cosmic struggle between two equivalent forces. The thrust of that section in general is God's superiority over claimed gods, with the fact that He called Cyrus by name 150 years before he was born showing that He is capable where the idols of the people are impotent.

 

[misput]

Please, if you please, include chapter and verse. I don't recognize that verse so I have no way to read it in context . Many of us use different Bibles and I like to read the verse in context in the Bible version I prefer
Thank you

Isiah 45:7

 

[zoidar]

It is sometimes but not all the time . Context determines its meaning .

darkness below has nothing to do with your definition above

Genesis 1:1-2
the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty,darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

I think of darkness as night, and light as day.

Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
— Genesis 1:3-5

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I think of darkness as night, and light as day.

God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.
— Genesis 1:16-18

Ditto it has a variety of meanings just like many other words in scripture.