Hm, even if the apostles agree on it?
I understand what you are saying and I agree.
Haha! Good point!
No, I'm not saying that. Why would God need to wait? God knows our free will decisions outside of time.
Maybe a better way I could have said it is, does God depend on us to make our decisions, so that he can make his?
And do you see how that makes chance a determiner —a cause?
Aha, I see! But if you see that determinism (that was the only word I could come up with to describe your view. Feel free to correct me.) isn't Biblically possible, then what?
Well, sure. If I could see that determinism (or anything else, for that matter) is Biblically impossible, then I could admit it is wrong. (Lol, good luck with that!)
I just believe Adam's sinful nature was inherited, not that Adam's guilt was imputed. Like I said, that sounds, and not only sounds but is from reason unjust to me.
I expect you mean to say, then, that wherever scripture obviously refers to imputation of Adam's sin, it is referring to the inherited fallen nature.
How is mere imputation any more unjust than to apply Adam's sinful nature to people (by 'inheritance' or whatever means he does so), so that they become actual sinners? Did they choose to inherit that sin? Neither is unjust. God has the right. But to claim that either is unjust, is to claim to understand God's level of justice. "Who are you, oh man, to talk back to God?" We are not his peers.
I don't remember if it was to you that I said this to, too, that God may see us corporately more than we want to admit to. One of the things humans tend to do in their self-interest is to separate themselves as individuals when it suits them, and to unite with humanity when it suits them. God doesn't do that to us when it suits us. Adam, as 'federal head' of corporate humanity, sinned, and so humanity corporately, and thus as individuals, are under condemnation.
While I don't claim to have worked out all the specifics of the "death" part of the condemnation, in which I've heard arguments of whether this death referred to is death of this body, or death of the spirit or both or what, I'm pretty sure that too will back up one view or the other between you and me, since, from how I understand things, the imputation of Adam's sin has everything to do with the command that Adam broke, that came with the statement that on the day he disobeys that command, he will surely die. And so, through the sin of one man, Adam, death came upon all.
He also chose from corporate fallen humanity, individuals who comprise the corporate church. And when we are in Heaven, he will absolutely love his Bride, even every individual part of her.
