What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[SkyWriting]

Deal with what? Explain what you are saying. I don't like guessing what someone means.

Proverbs 16:9
The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.

Proverbs 16:1
The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

I agree with these passages.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Exactly why I reject Calvinism. Either
a)Calvinism is false as my reason, my studies of the Scripture, and my base experience tell me.

of

b) Calvinism is true and God has willed that I not believe it so it is outside my power to believe.

No need to even bother considering it further.

I mean you no insult when I say: It seems by your words that you are the fatalistic one.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Proverbs 16:9
The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.

Proverbs 16:1
The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

I agree with these passages.

Repetition doesn't explain anything.

 

[misput]

OOPS : )

 

[misput]

Are you preterist in your eschatology?

I lean that way. Do you? Why do you ask?

 

[misput]

Interesting thought. I admit I had not thought about this, to study the notion, in years. Nice! Thanks.

Do you think it can be both, or are they mutually exclusive?

I don't know much about "where" or heaven but the cross and preparing us I can see.

 

[misput]

No, matter of fact, I did not ignore it, but answered it in another post.

Thanks.

Just out of curiosity. What are your thoughts on the two trees, the snake and the "mark" of Cain in Genesis?

 

[SkyWriting]

Repetition doesn't explain anything.

Those passages don't repeat.

 

[SkyWriting]

Repetition doesn't explain anything.

OK

Philippians 2:13
for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Jeremiah 10:23
I know, O Lord, that the way of man is not in himself, that it is not in man who walks to direct his steps.

Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will.

I'm flattered you think I could explain it better.

Proverbs 20:24
A man's steps are from the Lord; how then can man understand his way?

 

[zoidar]

Yet, (I hope), you do not think how people react or think as relevant to the accuracy of doctrine. Yet, as to that, I could probably show you one for one, those who are discouraged, fearful, confused and dismayed by the notion that it is their decision for Christ that made all the difference, when their own sin appears before them unconquerable. How can they believe their own sincerity when they repent, or make promises to God? It's enough to drive one crazy, or to abandon the faith altogether!

Lutheranism can be of great help in this regard. Lutherans do hold to that it's not our choice to repent that matters, but what God has done for us. How much do you know of Lutheranism?

 

[Mark Quayle]

I lean that way. Do you? Why do you ask?

I'm a little surprised, is all. Not that it matters to me. From my small experience in pursuing questions of eschatology, it seems to me Preterism in different degrees to be most usually an eschatology held to by Reformed believers. (Not that it is a Reformed teaching, as such.)

Myself, I don't know, and don't hold to any one view. I was brought up more or less dispensational, with a few misgivings which were later borne out to be valid. But, for example, I do see Rev 21 and 22 as real, not allegorical, and the destruction of the earth (and maybe even the universe) and the New Heavens and New Earth as real. I also tend to think of the thousand-year reign of Christ as real, non-allegorical. But I expect to be wrong about some of it, certainly I have no idea what some of these things will be like, in the end.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I'm a little surprised, is all. Not that it matters to me. From my small experience in pursuing questions of eschatology, it seems to me Preterism in different degrees to be most usually an eschatology held to by Reformed believers. (Not that it is a Reformed teaching, as such.)

Myself, I don't know, and don't hold to any one view. I was brought up more or less dispensational, with a few misgivings which were later borne out to be valid. But, for example, I do see Rev 21 and 22 as real, not allegorical, and the destruction of the earth (and maybe even the universe) and the New Heavens and New Earth as real. I also tend to think of the thousand-year reign of Christ as real, non-allegorical. But I expect to be wrong about some of it, certainly I have no idea what some of these things will be like, in the end.

When I was a calvinist I was just like MacArthur in my eschatology, pre-tribulation, premillennial, dispensationalist. I still hold those eschatological views but I'm not dogmatic about them. I believe the whole point is to be ready/prepared at all times that His return is immanent. Jesus had much to say in His parables about our readiness. When one has that view I believe it has a direct effect on how one lives their christian life.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Clare73]

I have a tendency to consider some things more literal than what we can understand at present. I think there is a structure, but it is not built with human hands, nor is it built with building materials as we conceive of them, but it is surely the Dwelling Place of God. To me, to call it figurative assumes too much of an understanding of what it will be like, when we surely do not understand what it will be like, for all the prophetic descriptions we get as to its particulars, figurative or otherwise.

I certainly do look forward to laughing with you when we look upon the facts there!

I'm counting on you to look me up. . .I'll be in the Baptist section, waving the TX flag.

 

[misput]

I'm a little surprised, is all. Not that it matters to me. From my small experience in pursuing questions of eschatology, it seems to me Preterism in different degrees to be most usually an eschatology held to by Reformed believers. (Not that it is a Reformed teaching, as such.)

Myself, I don't know, and don't hold to any one view. I was brought up more or less dispensational, with a few misgivings which were later borne out to be valid. But, for example, I do see Rev 21 and 22 as real, not allegorical, and the destruction of the earth (and maybe even the universe) and the New Heavens and New Earth as real. I also tend to think of the thousand-year reign of Christ as real, non-allegorical. But I expect to be wrong about some of it, certainly I have no idea what some of these things will be like, in the end.

I am sketchy on Revelations and kind of astonished at folks who run headlong to it when they are so sketchy on the first few chapters of Genesis but none of it is a deal breaker as far as salvation goes, thank God!

 

[Mark Quayle]

I don't know much about "where" or heaven but the cross and preparing us I can see.

Do you consider the preparing us to be ONLY spiritual improvement? Or specific things in life to which we adapt and even our personality changes? When I think of his preparing us, I think of a whole different person each of us becomes, instead of cookie-cutter Christians. To me, that makes more sense and yet still fits the general statements of Scripture, such as 'growing in grace' and 'maturity' etc.

 

[misput]

I'm counting on you to look me up. . .I'll be in the Baptist section, waving the TX flag.

Who could have guessed you are more literal!!! You do realize heaven is going to be a 1500 mile square cube that plops down on Jerusalem and does not throw the earth out of balance one bit, right lol lol

 

[Der Alte]

Who could have guessed you are more literal!!! You do realize heaven is going to be a 1500 mile square cube that plops down on Jerusalem and does not throw the earth out of balance one bit, right

Since God can stop the sun I don't think He will have any problem handling the balance situation.

 

[misput]

Do you consider the preparing us to be ONLY spiritual improvement? Or specific things in life to which we adapt and even our personality changes? When I think of his preparing us, I think of a whole different person each of us becomes, instead of cookie-cutter Christians. To me, that makes more sense and yet still fits the general statements of Scripture, such as 'growing in grace' and 'maturity' etc.

A better person hopefully but still plagued by that old fleshly nature.

 

[misput]

Since God can stop the sun I don't He will have any problem handling the balance situation.

That sure takes a load off my mind : )

 

[Mark Quayle]

Thanks.

Just out of curiosity. What are your thoughts on the two trees, the snake and the "mark" of Cain in Genesis?

Funny, or strange, how the Tree of Life is there in Heaven/New Jerusalem, not to mention the weird concepts the description of it forms in the mind.

But I'm not sure what you are asking me, what are my thoughts on that.

One thought on it has to do with the concept of 'Allegory' or 'Symbolism' that people more and more seem to take to. Apparently their concept of 'literal' means that this all happened in our current 'way of things'. But I have noticed that we almost always see things backwards. One of my ways of thinking is that much of what people consider symbolic or allegorical, etc, is because they can't match what they read with their current temporal worldview, which they consider ontological reality.

Thus, to me, if what happens in Revelation or Daniel's prophecy, for example, is REAL, or literal, it is not according to this mode that we know of as reality, but as THE REAL, to which this is, according to Scripture, like a vapor. (Credit CS Lewis for giving my mind a working concept of this notion). So also, with the Eden story. We really don't know much. To us they apply perhaps allegorically, but present day existence is not the standard by which to interpret Scripture, even though we are stuck in it. In other words, a healthy skepticism of our thinking, particularly of our presuppositions, is in order.