What is "true" Islam?

[lismore]

Is "compassion and forgiveness" at the heart and central to "true" Islam, and are the atrocities committed by extremists a perversion and distortion of Islamic teaching?

I would say you would have to look at the teachings and example of the founder of Islam, Mohammed, whose life is fairly well documented.

Was he a compassionate and forgiving teacher or was he a warlord who spread his doctrine at the point of a sword?

 

[King Mob]

I would say you would have to look at the teachings and example of the founder of Islam, Mohammed, whose life is fairly well documented.

Was he a compassionate and forgiving teacher or was he a warlord who spread his doctrine at the point of a sword?

So which then?

 

[Dale]

True islam is marrying 4 women, fighting/Jihad'ing "In sabil allah" (in the name of God to promote Islam) and being unequal to women.

In Islam, four wives means four wives at one time. Divorce is at the pleasure of the husband. There is no limit on the number of wives in a lifetime.


Take Ibn Saud, onetime King of Saudi Arabia.


“By the time he was fifty Ibn Saud proudly claimed he had married 135 virgins and enjoyed concubines without number. While he never exceeded the four wives allowed to him by Koranic law, he often tired of them rapidly after the wedding night; some he divorced without even bothering to remove their veils.”




See p. 176-177
Russell Miller, The House of Getty
New York: Henry Holt & Co., 1985


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[TheyCallMeDavid]

According to a member of the Muslim community in Salford interviewed on BBC News this morning (in light of the Alan Henning killing) "true" Islam is about "compassion and forgiveness".

But I ask the question, is this actually "true" Islam or is this what (arguably most) Muslims would like Islam to be?

Is "compassion and forgiveness" at the heart and central to "true" Islam, and are the atrocities committed by extremists a perversion and distortion of Islamic teaching?

Or is it the opposite? Are the extremists actually more au fait with "true" Islam, and those Muslims talking about "compassion and forgiveness" quite distanced and removed from the truth of Islam?

Are there clear passages in the Qu'ran and Hadith to support either "compassion and forgiveness" OR are there passages which might support the darker side of Islam?

I watched a TV program that exposes Islam and the Quran as NOT being the often purported 'compassionate and forgiving' Religion that its members claim it is. Thruout the Quran, there are many verses that speak to silencing adversaries to Islam using force / getting even / retaliation / all in the name of Allah. On the surface, Muslims seem to be neutral people who are like most other people, but, their 'Holy' Book teaches them a darker side of dealing with those that come against or denounce Islam.

I think we can get a good idea by Mohammeds fruit that he showed during his life as to the religion he started . A google will show that this person whom Muslims claim is the greatest prophet , was anything but an impeccable moral Fellow .

While not every Muslim is a Terrorist, every Terrorist is a Muslim ; its telling that they share the same Quran , the same Prophet, and a distortion on who God really is . My personal opinion is to be very skeptical of any Muslim for you never know the depth that they take forceful retaliation seriously.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

While not every Muslim is a Terrorist, every Terrorist is a Muslim

That is one of the most ill-educated, bigoted statements I've seen in a very long time. Do you seriously believe it?

 

[lismore]

That is one of the most ill-educated, bigoted statements I've seen in a very long time. Do you seriously believe it?

Well, we know what the gentleman's meaning was. Here's what I took from it:

'While not all muslims are fundamentalist, radicalised members of Islamic terrorist organisations all fundamentalist, radicalised members of Islamic terrorist organisations are muslim'

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Well, we know what the gentleman's meaning was. Here's what I took from it:

'While not all muslims are fundamentalist, radicalised members of Islamic terrorist organisations all fundamentalist, radicalised members of Islamic terrorist organisations are muslim'

So a badly worded statement of the obvious? All members of Islamic terrorist groups are muslims? Could be. But I still wonder about the end of that paragraph.

 

[King Mob]

Was he a compassionate and forgiving teacher or was he a warlord who spread his doctrine at the point of a sword?

Would he be comparable to the Israeli government then?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

That is one of the most ill-educated, bigoted statements I've seen in a very long time. Do you seriously believe it?

Yes, precisely as explained in Post #26

 

[theFijian]

...every Terrorist is a Muslim...

This demonstrably untrue, I don't know what you think you gain by stating such a blatant falsehood

 

[Genersis]

This demonstrably untrue, I don't know what you think you gain by stating such a blatant falsehood

Eh, probably good language for riling up and rallying people.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

This demonstrably untrue, I don't know what you think you gain by stating such a blatant falsehood

Al Queda and ISIS both profess Islam . All the Terrorists Groups in the Middle East we hear about on TV today, are Muslims (albeit extremist) .

The Quran (Islams most Holy Book to live by) is read by both Terrorists Muslims AND non Terrorist Fundamentalist Muslims ; heres over 100 passages from the Quran encouraging and endorsing violence as a Muslim lifestyle . Were you aware of these facts ? : http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

Can you please explain why you think I speak 'a blatant falsehood' ? Thanks.

 

[Miser]

While not every Muslim is a Terrorist, every Terrorist is a Muslim

Does nobody remember the IRA?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Does nobody remember the IRA?

I was making reference to PRESENT DAY TERRORISTS especially those from the Middle East..the stuff we hear on TV these days. Read my post above on the encouraged violence messages the 'Holy' Book pronounces to Muslims of every kind.

 

[Miser]

the stuff we hear on TV these days.

I wouldn't hold too much faith in what you hear on TV.

Also see below terrorist pie chart from CIA figures from 1980 to 2005

 

[Dale]

What is true Islam? Ever heard of Uthman ibn Affan?


Encarta Encyclopedia:


“After Umar's death in 644, Uthman ibn Affan, Muhammad's son-in-law and one of his first converts, was appointed the third caliph by a panel of six Meccan electors.
...
Uthman also antagonized the Islamic preachers by issuing an official text of the Qur'an (Koran), with an accompanying order to destroy all other versions. Rebellious Muslim troops from Al Kūfah (Iraq) and Egypt besieged Uthman in Medina and assassinated him in 656.”




So Caliph Uthman ordered competing versions of the Koran destroyed.
The Koran around today is Uthman's version.




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[TheyCallMeDavid]

I wouldn't hold too much faith in what you hear on TV.

Also see below terrorist pie chart from CIA figures from 1980 to 2005

Have you got a Pie Chart from 2010-2014 ??? Ill bet its changed drastically.

What do u think about the Muslims Quran encouraging / endorsing over 100 passages of proactive violence from a book Muslims consider the highest of divine instructions for living ?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Have you got a Pie Chart from 2010-2014 ??? Ill bet its changed drastically.

Look through the list here. You'll see that the majority of terrorist organisations in the world are still not islamist. Politics is still the largest cause for terrorism.

What do u think about the Muslims Quran encouraging / endorsing over 100 passages of proactive violence from a book Muslims consider the highest of divine instructions for living?

I suggest you read your Bible before you go casting aspersions on the Quran for promoting violence.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Look through the list here. You'll see that the majority of terrorist organisations in the world are still not islamist. Politics is still the largest cause for terrorism.


I suggest you read your Bible before you go casting aspersions on the Quran for promoting violence.

In the site you provided, there sure were ALOT of 'Al ____' indicating solidarity with Islam .

As for the Bible, Jesus encouraged Christians pray for their enemies / treat those who are hostile toward us with respect / don't shed innocent blood / treat others as we would want to be treated / not to retaliate and leave wrath to God / etc.... Have you got an issue with any of these then ?

 

[Dale]

I wouldn't hold too much faith in what you hear on TV.

Also see below terrorist pie chart from CIA figures from 1980 to 2005

The statistics on terrorists given in the chart above are impossible to believe.
Here's the official list of foreign organizations designated as terrorists by the US State Department.
A quick glance shows that the vast majority are Islamic.




Current List of Designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations

1. Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
2. Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
3. Aum Shinrikyo (AUM)
4. Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
5. Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group)
6. HAMAS
7. Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
8. Hizballah (Party of God)
9. Kahane Chai (KACH)
10. Kurdistan Workers' Party (Kongra-Gel, PKK)
11. Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
12. National Liberation Army (ELN)
13. Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
14. Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
15. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
16. PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)
17. Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
18. Revolutionary Organization 17 November (17N)
19. Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
20. Shining Path (SL)
21. Al-Qa’ida (AQ)
22. Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
23. Real Irish Republican Army (RIRA)
24. United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)
25. Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)
26. Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LeT)
27. Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMB)
28. Asbat al-Ansar (AAA)
29. Al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)
30. Communist Party of the Philippines/New People's Army (CPP/NPA)
31. Jemaah Islamiya (JI)
32. Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LJ)
33. Ansar al-Islam (AAI)
34. Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
35. Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG)
36. Al-Qa’ida in Iraq (AQI)
37. Islamic Jihad Group (IJU)
38. Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B)
39. Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP)
40. Jundallah
41. Army of Islam (AOI)
42. Indian Mujahidin (IM)
43. Jemaah Anshorut Tawhid (JAT)
44. Abdallah Azzam Brigades (AAB)
45. Haqqani Network (HQN)
46. Ansar al-Dine (AAD)
47. Boko Haram
48. Ansaru
49. al-Mulathamun Battalion
50. Ansar al-Shari'a in Benghazi
51. Ansar al-Shari'a in Darnah
52. Ansar al-Shari'a in Tunisia

Link:
http://www.nctc.gov/site/other/fto.html


NCTC is the National Counterterrorism Center.


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