• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

what is the whole law?

what is the law spoken of in the NT

  • the law of Moses

  • the law of Abraham

  • I am not sure

  • other


Results are only viewable after voting.

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
K4c....the law referenced in this thread is the WHOLE law, which you do not endorse keeping.
This was a post by another member and rather than sidetracking that thread, I would like to ask others view of what exactly is meant by "the whole Law". Thanks

(NKJV) James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point,] he is guilty of all.

Textus Rec.) James 2:10 ostiV gar olon ton nomon thrhsei ptaisei de en eni gegonen pantwn enocoV
 
F

from scratch

Guest
This was a post by another member and rather than sidetracking that thread, I would like to ask others view of what exactly is meant by "the whole Law". Thanks

(NKJV) James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point,] he is guilty of all.

Textus Rec.) James 2:10 ostiV gar olon ton nomon thrhsei ptaisei de en eni gegonen pantwn enocoV
Great idea for a thread. I didn't vote because there wasn't a reasonable choice than other. I would have voted for an option that stated the law of Moses includes the 10 Cs as the whole law. The Torah or Pentateuch is the law of Moses and does contain the 10 Cs. The phrase the law refers to the Torah. James specifically shows the law to be a single undividible unit. Paul does the same. Jesus refered to the law as something other than the 10 Cs.
 
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Site Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
32,691
6,107
Visit site
✟1,050,110.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In the context of that discussion the person who posted that Paul was keeping "the law" was referring to the entire Israelite law (in this case Acts 21 was in view which included vows, sacrifices, etc.)

Adventists on the other hand generally advocate the ten commandments, but not all the law of Moses as something still to be kept. Some may also include food and hygeine laws. They do not however keep feasts, new moons, etc.

There are a minority of Adventists who do keep feasts,but they are not the norm.


When dealing with conversations that involve both MJ and SDA it is sometimes necessary to remind the SDA that they are not of the same position as the Messianics in regards to the law. So when a Messianic posts that Paul kept the law, and an SDA says "amen", they are often saying "amen" to something different than they first thought.

Adventists often think of the 10 commandments as enduring moral law, and make a vast distinction between the 10 on stone and the book of Moses.

But then when Adventists see "the law" they tend to read back in only the ten commandments. That is often not accurate.


For instance, Adventists may often quote Matthew 5 to demonstrate that the law has not passed away. But in doing so they overlook that Jesus quotes not just from the 10 commandments, but other sections of the law.

Yes, Jesus references the commandments about murder and adultery. But He also talks about oaths, eye for eye, etc.



Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The words apply to the whole law, not just the ten commandments.

Murder


Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.
Mat 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
Mat 5:25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison.
Mat 5:26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.


Jesus shows that behind the command against murder, one of the ten, is also the principle of reconciling with your brother and not hating your brother.

Adultery

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Mat 5:31 "It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Another of the 10 is enlarged upon. Lust is adultery of the heart. Even thoughts matter.

But then Jesus turns to some issues from other commands.

Oaths


Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.'
Mat 5:34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
Mat 5:35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 Let what you say be simply 'Yes' or 'No'; anything more than this comes from evil.


This command is from the OT law, but not the ten commandments.

Compare:

Num 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

Lev 19:12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.


So when Jesus speaks of the law He does not refer only to the ten.

Eye for Eye

Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
Mat 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Mat 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
Mat 5:42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Compare:

Exo 21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Exo 21:25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.


Again Jesus references parts of the law not in the ten.



Not only that, sometimes the word law means the whole first five books, and when paired with "the prophets" can indicate OT scripture. We also see this in Matt. 5:17


Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.


Both the law and prophets are involved. Likely this is a reference to the whole of the OT scriptures.
 
Upvote 0

Zeek

Follower of Messiah, Israel advocate and Zionist
Nov 8, 2010
2,888
217
England
✟19,164.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
what is the whole law?

Every part of Mosaic Law that applies to each individual in whatever service they find themselves in....thus the Law for a woman will be different to that of a man....and the Law for a Priest or Levite will be different again.
 
Upvote 0

Harry3142

Regular Member
Apr 9, 2006
3,749
259
Ohio
✟27,729.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
One of the reasons why the Mosaic Law is seen as a spiritual 'bear trap' is due to its insistence that ignorance is not an excuse for breaking one of those laws. In chapters 4, 5, and 6, of Leviticus we see the penitential sacrifices that are to be made by certain ranks of men in Hebrew society once they have found out that they had sinned. In those chapters it is made quite clear that the fact of their being ignorant of having committed a sin did not lessen their guilt.

It's also to be seen as an abject warning to all those who believe that they can justify themselves through the keeping of the law. It's not the laws that they've known about that have the potentiality of condemning them; it's the laws that they didn't even realize were there that can condemn them.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
One of the reasons why the Mosaic Law is seen as a spiritual 'bear trap' is due to its insistence that ignorance is not an excuse for breaking one of those laws. In chapters 4, 5, and 6, of Leviticus we see the penitential sacrifices that are to be made by certain ranks of men in Hebrew society once they have found out that they had sinned. In those chapters it is made quite clear that the fact of their being ignorant of having committed a sin did not lessen their guilt.

.
Interesting choice of words :D :p

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number H1677 matches the Hebrew דֹּב (dob), which occurs 12 times in 12 verses in the Hebrew concordance

Hosea 13:8 I shall meet them as a bear bereaved of her whelps, and will rend enclosure of their heart;
and I shall devour them there as a great-lion, animal of the field she shall rend them
[Daniel 7:5/Reve 13:2]

Reve 13:2 And the beast I saw was like a leopard, and the feet of it as of bear, and the mouth of it as mouth of lion.
And the dragon gives to it the power of him and the throne of him and great authority.
[Daniel 7:5]

Beware the circumcision!

A RC Priest, a Pentecostal Preacher and a Rabbi...
...all served as chaplains to the students of Northern Michigan University in Marquette. They would get together two or three times a week for coffee and to talk shop.
One day, someone made the comment that preaching to people isn't really all that hard. A real challenge would be to preach to a bear.

One thing led to another, and they decided to do a seven-day experiment. They would all go out into the woods, find a bear, preach to it, and attempt to convert it. Seven days later, they're all together to discuss the experience.

Father Flannery, who has his arm in a sling, is on crutches, and has various bandages, goes first.
"Well," he says, "I went into the woods to find me a bear. And when I found him I began to read to him from the Catechism. Well, that bear wanted nothing to do with me and began to slap me. So I quickly grabbed my holy water, sprinkled him and, Holy Mary Mother of God, he became as gentle as a lamb. The bishop is coming out next week to give him first communion and confirmation."

Reverend Billy Bob spoke next. He was in a wheelchair, with an arm and both legs in casts, and an IV drip. In his best fire and brimstone oratory he proclaimed, "Well, brothers, you know that we don't sprinkle...we dunk! I went out and I found me a bear. And then I began to read to him from God's holy word! But that bear wanted nothing to do with me. So I took hold of him and we began to wrestle. We wrestle down one hill, up another and down another until we came to a crick. So I quickly dunked him and baptized his hairy soul. And just like you said, he became as gentle as a lamb. We spent the rest of the week in fellowship, feasting on God's holy word, and praising Jesus."

They both looked down at the rabbi, who was lying in a hospital bed. He was in a body cast and traction with IV's and monitors running in and out of him. He was in bad shape.

The rabbi looks up and says, "Oi, you fellows don't know what trouble is until you try to circumcise one of those hairy buggers.
 
Upvote 0

Mr Dave

God Save The Queen!
Apr 2, 2010
7,223
762
Sheffield
✟33,210.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Is there a difference between the law of Moses and the law of Abraham?

The law of Abraham I would have said is the Decalogue and that bit in Exodus. The Law of Moses is euphemistic for the Torah/Pentateuch, so the law of Abraham is part of the law of Moses.

Or did I miss something.
 
Upvote 0

Frogster

Galatians is the best!
Sep 7, 2009
44,343
3,067
✟81,817.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
Is there a difference between the law of Moses and the law of Abraham?

The law of Abraham I would have said is the Decalogue and that bit in Exodus. The Law of Moses is euphemistic for the Torah/Pentateuch, so the law of Abraham is part of the law of Moses.

Or did I miss something.

yes.

15 To give a human example, brothers:[f] even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
something to flee.....:D

heb 6;18so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us
:)
Flee from the OC Jerusalem below to the NC Jerusalem above :pray:

Luke 21:20 Whenever yet ye may be seeing Jerusalem being encompassed by armies, then be ye knowing! that nigh Her desolation.
21 Then they who are in Judea let them be fleeing/departing/ekcwreitwsan <1633> (5720)! into the mountains, and they in midst of Her let be coming out! and they who are in the fields no let them be entering into Her
[Zechariah 14:5/1 Thess 3:13]

1633. ekchoreo ek-kho-reh'-o from 1537 and 5562; to depart:--depart out.
5562. choreo kho-reh'-o from 5561; to be in (give) space, i.e. (intransitively) to pass, enter, or (transitively) to hold, admit (literally or figuratively):--come, contain, go, have place, (can, be room to) receive.
 
Upvote 0

Frogster

Galatians is the best!
Sep 7, 2009
44,343
3,067
✟81,817.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
:)
Flee from the OC Jerusalem below to the NC Jerusalem above :pray:

Luke 21:20 Whenever yet ye may be seeing Jerusalem being encompassed by armies, then be ye knowing! that nigh Her desolation.
21 Then they who are in Judea let them be fleeing/departing/ekcwreitwsan <1633> (5720)! into the mountains, and they in midst of Her let be coming out! and they who are in the fields no let them be entering into Her
[Zechariah 14:5/1 Thess 3:13]

1633. ekchoreo ek-kho-reh'-o from 1537 and 5562; to depart:--depart out.
5562. choreo kho-reh'-o from 5561; to be in (give) space, i.e. (intransitively) to pass, enter, or (transitively) to hold, admit (literally or figuratively):--come, contain, go, have place, (can, be room to) receive.

like a texas lizard, on a hot day! fast>>>>>>>
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Is there a difference between the law of Moses and the law of Abraham?

The law of Abraham I would have said is the Decalogue and that bit in Exodus. The Law of Moses is euphemistic for the Torah/Pentateuch, so the law of Abraham is part of the law of Moses.

Or did I miss something.
Good point bro :thumbsup: :angel:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7436472/
Luke 16:26 and the great "chasm/gulf".

Luke 16:26 And upon all of these between us [faith of Abraham] and ye[faith of Moses]a great chasm hath been established
So that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye no may be able, neither thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276> (5725)

Hebrews 11:29 By faith they crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru dry,
which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
The Law of the Jews developed in their culture over thousands of years, maybe.
Mainly thru the rabbinic Talmud perhaps, since they no longer have a Preisthood?
Thks for posting :)

Young) John 18:31 Pilate therefore said to them "take ye Him--ye--and according to your law judge Him;'
the Jews therefore said to him, "it is not lawful to us to put any one to death"
 
Upvote 0
F

from scratch

Guest
Is there a difference between the law of Moses and the law of Abraham?

The law of Abraham I would have said is the Decalogue and that bit in Exodus. The Law of Moses is euphemistic for the Torah/Pentateuch, so the law of Abraham is part of the law of Moses.

Or did I miss something.
Yes there is. The law came after Abraham. The law includes some basic history for foundation.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Yes there is. The law came after Abraham. The law includes some basic history for foundation.
Like the one our bro Paul lays for us?
Interesting this word for foundation is use only in Luke of the 4 Gospels :eek:

1 Corin 3:10 According to the grace of the GOD the being given to me as a wise chief-artificer a foundation/qemelion <2310> I lay, another yet is building on it,
each one yet let be heeding! how he is building on it.

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G2310 matches the Greek &#952;&#949;&#956;&#8051;&#955;&#953;&#959;&#962; (themelios), which occurs 16 times in 15 verses in the Greek concordance
 
Upvote 0