What is the strong delusion God will send in the end time?

Bible2 · Feb 24, 2014

Ronald said in post 140:

In the end times, the RESTRAINER will be taken out of the way. The Holy Spirit restrains evil. When the church is raptured, nothing will restrain evil and man will be left to his own demise, understandings and beliefs.

The restrainer of the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8) could be a powerful, good angel, like the one who will restrain Satan at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 20:1-3). The restrainer can't be the Holy Spirit, because in the future the restrainer will be removed (2 Thessalonians 2:7b), whereas the Holy Spirit can never be removed because he is always omnipresent (Psalms 139:7-10). Similarly, the restrainer can't be the church, or the Holy Spirit in the church, because the church won't be removed (John 17:15,20, Proverbs 10:30), and there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5), and now no one can be a believer without the Spirit (Romans 8:9); and the Antichrist will be allowed to physically overcome believers in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), just as, for example, the Roman emperors and Satan were allowed to physically overcome believers in the first century AD (e.g. Revelation 2:10).

Alfred Persson · Feb 24, 2014

SG9 said:
Easy to say IMO but how does he accomplish it? I suppose that's not in the OP question then, my bad.

I don't see any benefit in what it is as we are proof of a strong delusion by all of the confusion in the world; I am more interested in knowing how God administers the delusion. I'm using your post as an example, only. Thanks

That is an excellent question. Are theological disputes about the same text a result of the strong delusion.

James attributes these to fallen human nature, not God:

Where do the conflicts and where do the quarrels among you come from? Is it not from this, from your passions that battle inside you? (Jam 4:1 NET)

The Strong Delusion in 2 Thessalonians arises from permitting the mystery of lawlessness, which is spiritism, to be unrestrained.

It is similar to how God hardened Pharaoh's heart, by allowing his magicians do signs and wonders that convinced Pharaoh he could successfully resist God's demands:

11 But Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers; so the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
12 For every man threw down his rod, and they became serpents. But Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.
13 And Pharaoh's heart grew hard, and he did not heed them, as the LORD had said. (Exo 7:11-13 NKJ)

But the choice to resist God remained Pharaoh's:

14 So the LORD said to Moses: "Pharaoh's heart is hard; he refuses to let the people go. (Exo 7:14 NKJ)

15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the LORD had said. (Exo 8:15 NKJ)

So God hardened Pharaoh's heart by creating the environment where he believed he could fight God and win, and then Pharaoh hardened his own heart and chose to fight God.

God doesn't override free will, there was no "hardening energy" going from God to Pharaoh's heart.

Christ alluded to the same dichotomy, they chose to close their eyes:

15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.' (Mat 13:15 NKJ)

To sum up, these didn't love the truth, and chose to take pleasure in unrighteousness, that is why God sends the strong delusion, they choose to believe it rather than the truth of God:

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Th 2:9-12 NKJ)

They did not receive the love of the truth, it does not say God didn't send it to them. IN other words, He tried, but they rejected therefore God sends them an alternative, and THAT they choose to accept:

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2Pe 3:9 NKJ)

Ronald · Feb 24, 2014

Bible2 said:
Bible2 said:

The restrainer of the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8) could be a powerful, good angel, like the one who will restrain Satan at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 20:1-3).

The restrainer can't be the Holy Spirit,

Click to expand...

because in the future the restrainer will be removed (2 Thessalonians 2:7b), whereas the Holy Spirit can never be removed because he is always omnipresent (Psalms 139:7-10). Similarly, the restrainer can't be the church, or the Holy Spirit in the church, because the church won't be removed (John 17:15,20, Proverbs 10:30), and there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5), and now no one can be a believer without the Spirit (Romans 8:9); and the Antichrist will be allowed to physically overcome believers in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), just as, for example, the Roman emperors and Satan were allowed to physically overcome believers in the first century AD (e.g. Revelation 2:10).

Click to expand...

Sorry, beg to differ with you. "The Restrainer can't be the Holy Spirit". ??? Whose power is it? God's.
God restrains evil, through the church, through government, etc. In the end times, the church will be removed. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit and the temple will then be in heaven. Of course God is everywhere, but He releases His restraint (power) and lets evil run its course.
When Jesus was on earth prior to His death, He said He would send another Helper. In other verses, the Father sends the Holy Spirit. But He said He must go first before the Holy Spirit could come. So, when the church is removed and Jesus returns, the Holy Spirit will not be with the people on earth, since they are not the temple in which He dwells. Unless you think the Holy Spirit is an angel or a force?

Alfred Persson · Feb 24, 2014

Ronald said:
God restrains evil, through the church, through government, etc. In the end times, the church will be removed. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit and the temple will then be in heaven. Of course God is everywhere, but He releases His restraint (power) and lets evil run its course. ...

That commonly believed interpretation doesn't do justice to the data. Paul said the mystery was already at work and then speaks of the restrainer as independent of himself and the church:

7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
(2Th 2:7-8 NKJ)

So this precise restraint that holds back the Man of Sin is independent of the church as the mystery was already at work in the church and even produced antichrists from it, but not the Man of Sin:

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. (1Jo 2:18-19 NKJ)

So I agree its the Holy Spirit doing the restraining, but the wording suggests its an ordinance from God that is restraining a particular aspect of the mystery of lawlessness, i.e., the Man of Sin, Son of Perdition, from appearing.

By deduction, the lawlessness that is being restrained now, and was after the days of Noah, was what happened in Genesis c. 6, where Satan's angels were permitted to be Nephilim on the earth, and seduced the sons of God using the beautiful daughters of collaborating men, to leave their proper habitation, and go after strange flesh:

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jud 1:6-7 NKJ)

What will be removed then, as we won't see a repeat of angelic sons of God marring women, is the divine ordinance against fallen angels appearing on earth physically as Nephilim.

I believe that explains the time and resources Satan has spent convincing manking UFO aliens exist, so he can disguise his fallen angels as UFO aliens, and they will convince the world to follow the Man of Sin.

They will change times and law, all that was called God or worshiped, will be made "obsolete" when there is an actual physical appearance of beings who claim to be UFO aliens.

Ronald · Feb 25, 2014

Alfred Persson said:
Alfred Persson said:

By deduction, the lawlessness that is being restrained now, and was after the days of Noah, was what happened in Genesis c. 6, where Satan's angels were permitted to be Nephilim on the earth, and seduced the sons of God using the beautiful daughters of collaborating men, to leave their proper habitation, and go after strange flesh:

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jud 1:6-7 NKJ)

Click to expand...

By deduction, man left to himself is evil to the core. Prior to Noah, the Holy Spirit did not guide men internally, they did not have the law nor did they have a temple for Him to dwell in. The world was left unrestrained, which was why He destroyed it for His purpose. This was a lesson in history for us as well. God works through man, manifests His power. During the GT, God allows Satan a short time to do his thing and empower the world, but then Judgment comes and ends it.
I've heard Chuck Missler teach on the Nephilim 20 years ago. Since then I have reasoned that angels could not procreate with human women. God is the Creator of life and did not give them this ability. They can appear as angels of light. The men of old and renown were giants --if you lived 900 years you would be too. They were just men. This verse: "the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men..."Gen. 6:4, simply means men of God as we are who would mate with unequally yoked unbelievers and had children. That's my take. I do not think angels were ever capable of procreating. The fallen angels were probably jealous of us and that we were loved and special to God. I'm sure it Got Satan bent out of shape.

Quantum Paradise · Feb 25, 2014

I do believe the OP is on to something, ironically I've been studying this very topic of late. I prefer to take these things with a grain of salt, but at the same time I do strongly believe the UFO / alien deception will play a pivotal role in end-time events, and I do think it is the strong delusion the Bible speaks of. Everything is converging: the global economic collapse, the New World Order, the One World Religion...I do believe that the alien deception is to be the very crux of it all, if you pay attention you can see it being set-up.

Few quick points:

The Vatican is known to move really slow on contemporary issues yet seems to be going forward very quickly on the topic of extraterrestrial life, not to mention the strange connection between the Vatican and UFOs. They have someone dedicated to this, some science pontiff in what I guess would be the "alien department", it's to the point where aliens are regarded as beings who could need salvation, and that they would baptize them "only if they asked". It's all there, just got to search it up. The pope even mentioned the possibility of aliens being brothers in christ and that they could have possibly have had their own experience with their own version of God incarnate. This is the pope people. It's no coincidence that this pope has been regarded as the one to revive the Catholic church and is literally capturing the hearts and minds of catholic and non-catholics alike. I sense something diabolical coming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO5bWH6Yzhk

The UN appointed an actual ambassador to extra-terrestrial life, and more or less told the world they're "ready in the event of alien contact".

And something that to me is a dead give-away, Michael Bay's soon to be released TMNT. They are...ninja turtles...from space, i.e. an alien race.

Seriously, not only has this enraged fans, but this move would essentially destroy everything that makes TMNT...TMNT. To most, this doesn't make any sense. However, it's not about Michael Bay's career or satisfying the TMNT fan base, it's about an agenda of indoctrination and they're going after the kids. Decades of UFO indoctrination in the mass media, trying to create this public perception of governments keeping hidden / top secret information about the existence of alien life, the "theory of evolution", it's like a gigantic mind job with the intent of embedding the alien reality into the minds of the masses.

Check out this video, completely blew me away. He touches up on the topic of the anti-christ and the "great delusion" at the end. People would mention the return of the Nephilim, at the time I didn't understand what they meant...now I do. Hybridization programs have already been long under way...and I do not think the anti-christ will even be fully human.

9 Portals to Open in 2013 Sandy Hook and The Mayan Connection - YouTube

Alfred Persson · Mar 6, 2014

Quantum Paradise said:
...

Check out this video, completely blew me away. He touches up on the topic of the anti-christ and the "great delusion" at the end. People would mention the return of the Nephilim, at the time I didn't understand what they meant...now I do. Hybridization programs have already been long under way...and I do not think the anti-christ will even be fully human.

I was in some agreement until the video, that clearly is dangerous disinformation. The antichrist will have to be human if he will "assume the guise of Christ to oppose Christ" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words).

Take Christ's warning to heart:

The devil...does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. (Joh 8:44 NKJ)***

You can't trust the devil to speak any truth, even the premises that briefly are close to the truth, are employed to teach the lie. That is why the apocryphal works, Koran, Book of Mormon, Magisterium, spiritualists, occult groups, astrology etc., are all disinformation, expert misdirection.

While it is possible the Nephilim and their followers hunted men for sport, and drank blood of animals and perhaps men---which seems implied by the importance God placed on prohibiting these things First right after the flood:

4 "But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.
5 "Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man's brother I will require the life of man.
6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.
(Gen 9:4-6 NKJ)

All that nonsense about human sacrifice and blood drinking needed to make spirits material in our realm, is contradicted in Gen c. 6 and the physical appearance in our realm of good angels after the flood.

I discuss angels being material in the Kingdom of Heaven, not spirits, and they simply appear in our realm. They don't "materialize" bodies, a theory which the Bible never teaches and is clearly a massive violation of Occam's Razor.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7800621/#post64904035

The purpose of that video is to grant occult sources some validity and make you think they contain some truth. Its disinformation in its most expert and dangerous form.

Only trust scripture 100%. Any theory or speculation must agree 100% with scripture or it got something wrong.

And I agree the Vatican will play a role, when she heads Babylon the Great, and the spirits of antichrist no longer require her services, as the religion of the antichrist then rules, and times and law are changed, and all formerly worshiped, is destroyed...Babylon goes with it.

Here the angel of God illuminates what is hidden on the earth, and there be demons dwelling in Babylon, who imprison the lesser spirits to work their uncleanness in her till all that is written, is fulfilled:

1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! (Rev 18:1-2 NKJ)

Babylon the Great is the last appearance of the spiritist religion that began with the Tower of Babylon and its attempt to become the world's Magisterium, so everyone could see her and live according to her design and word as though it were God speaking from the heavens.

The Vatican will likely head this revived Babylonian spiritism, but until the time of the end her identity is a secret (mystery). So its premature to call the Vatican Babylon, she isn't the whole and it doesn't appear in full until the time of the end.

"Fallen, is fallen" is said twice indicating Babylon will prostrate herself to antichrist spirits completely, intensely. She will be carried away against all rational objection (1 Cor 12:2) into idolatry, giving herself over to the strong delusion completely. Then the working of the secret power of lawlessness (spiritism) will inspire Babylon's prophets to declare the Antichrist Christ in the Temple of God, the Church.

At first Christendom protects the true church that exists in her as if separate from the great city, in the wilderness. But the spiritist "flood" sent to destroy them, makes drunk all who take pleasure in unrighteousness, working their abominations in the outer court of the temple (the church):

14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.
15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.
16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.
(Rev 12:14-16 NKJ)

Apostate Christendom is "the earth" and she falls completely to spiritism becoming Babylon the Great:

5 The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants, Because they have transgressed the laws, Changed the ordinance, Broken the everlasting covenant. (Isa 24:5 NKJ)

After a time of persecution, the true church is raptured with Moses and Elijah, God's two witnesses, allowing the judgments to begin.

And all pagan and occult movements being energized by the same mystery of lawlessness, spiritism, their prophets and shamans etc will will be inspired to agree and likely proclaim the Nephilim his angels of light.

And as the need for other religions then ceases, as all formerly worshiped or called God is replaced with the new Antichrist religion, Babylon is in the way and they will burn her with fire. All those who felt exploited and deceived, as well as the secularists who resented her restraining and shaming their evil doing, will rise up with a vengeance:

4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
5 "For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
6 "Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.
7 "In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart,`I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.'
8 "Therefore her plagues will come in one day-- death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.
(Rev 18:4-8 NKJ)

Verse 6 does not immediately follow verse 4, verse 5 explaining God's reason and coming judgment separate them. God's people are exiting, not destroying. Its the unregenerate, Babylon's laity and all secularists who felt she restrained or shamed them, that rise up to destroy her, with a vengeance. They resent her exploitation of them, but its all in fulfillment of what God had ordained for her.

END
***"There is no truth in him."-Jesus Christ

Satan is smarter than us, we may even appear as monkeys to him:

5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels, (Psa 8:5 NKJ)

Strategically speaking, an argument whose premises are close to the truth, but still lies, is better than using truth to teach a lie.

Then, its impossible any truth be discerned from it.

Therefore, those who consider the Book of Enoch etc. contains some truth, are not heeding the warning of Christ. There is NO TRUTH in his arguments--- he's smarter than you. You will get nothing of value from him.

AJCServant · Mar 6, 2014

miamited said:
Hi AP,

For me, I believe the strong delusion is already begun and it comes to us in the teachings of evolution. In my wanderings throughout these threads it does appear to be a very, very strong delusion accepted and believed by even a multitude of those who align themselves as 'christians'.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Hi all,

Has anyone seen in any of these blog-threads where anyone believes in evolution and NOT that we were created by an "intelligent-design"? Many years ago I had talked with "some" Mormons who did or at least at the time I felt they did, but these are a rare few in "Christian" circles, and in my view these "Christians" were also in a "cult" that would blind their eyes to allow them to be so inclined.

The truth about the errs of Darwinist evolutionary theory should be simple to see and to then explain to others, since even from Darwin's-Doubts he himself saw there was "NO" "spectrum" of any animals between any of the distinct "species" we have today, i.e. no missing- links have ever been found between say dolphins and whales or horses and donkeys, such as a spectrum between the two of 10% 20% 30% 40% 50% etc. in other words an entire spectrum would be in the fossil record to have "evolved" between any two "similar" animals.

Here is what I consider the most important excerpt of Darwin's book "Origin of the Species" Chapter 6, Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms.

And so that even in the veterinary labs we have in our modern days, a "spectrum" between the species that would not become sterile in the next generation has "never" been created by any human, since it was our Heavenly Creator's wisdom to intelligently design all of earth's DNA to never allow these types of manipulations to ever occur by chance OR even by intensive artificial efforts.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
See <> Charles Darwin Doubts about His Theory | X-Evolutionist.com <> AND/OR [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<> x-evolutionist.com/charles-darwin-described-the-problems-with-his-theory-in-his-book-origin-of-species/ <> AND/OR <> literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/the-origin-of-species/chapter-06.html <> AND/OR <> literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/the-origin-of-species/chapter-09.html <>
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
AND/OR these links:
[/FONT]Darwin Expected Innumerable Transitional Forms, but they Do not Exist
Darwin Admitted that Events like The Cambrian Explosion would be Fatal to the Theory
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
Thanks for any help.[/FONT]

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant of Christ Jesus
AJCServant

<><> <><

PS - FYI - A good "Darwin's-Doubt" video is at ><> "Darwin's Doubt" with Stephen Meyer on Vimeo <><

<><> <><

PPS - - In my view a quick study of the "obviousness" of >-- index fossils and the many various >-- Extinction Events between these >-- index fossils is the strongest argument in favor of "intelligent-design" and against Darwinian-evolutionary-theory that evangelistic - Christians should become familiar with, that would help us-all to make >-- Romans 1:19-20 more easily understood by many confused souls in our naive untaught generation.

Very simply, like we see today with larger animals, there has never been any "spectrum" of evolutionary- life present in any of the plankton sized index fossils.

Which "should" reveal to anyone who is not blinded by their sins about our Creator's infinite wisdom to intelligently "plant" [+] or "seed" into the earth over and over with "new" species of sea-life plankton after each extinction event, such as a near earth nova. Simply so that in our modern day we would more easily recognize our Creator's eternal patience and wisdom to "build" the earth and humankind with Jesus' oversights exactly as God the Father has designed.

[+: NOTE SEE >-- Genesis 2:8 AND ALSO as mentioned in 2Kings 10:36, 1Chronicles 29:27, and 2Peter 3:8, a "yom" day to the Lord can be much much longer than 24 hours, especially before the fourth day when our Eternal Creator caused our earth's sun and moon to form, that then began to eventually establish our present 24 hour day whenever the earth's rotation ultimately became "fixed" with a 24 hour rotation period as taught in Genesis 1:14.]

So the whole truth behind an old earth creation would show the eternal vision and "immeasurable" agape-love our eternal Creator has shown for modern man in this pivotal generation, for Him to take the almost infinite efforts to radically change the sea-life plankton in each new age - simply in order that our pivotal generation might "safely" drill for oil and gas by using these index fossils to identify in advance the locations of dangerous high pressure oil and gas zones while a well was being drilled.

It would also show the almost infinite efforts of Christ Jesus who scripture says was tasked with "creating" and "building" and "planting" into the earth exactly as it has been built the way we see it today.

Whereby many ages ago Jesus and His father designed and created our world wherein a few billion souls could eventually become created and then "trained" to become "like the angels" and eventually "formed into the image of Jesus Christ". [[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]See [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Matthew 22:30[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mark 12:25[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] & [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Luke 20:36[/FONT] and also [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Romans 8:29[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] & [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2Corinthians 3:18[/FONT].]

This "vision" for our present pivotal generation took an immense amount of effort that was expended by Jesus and the entire Heavenly Host of eternal angels, and IMHO anyone who would say that these immense efforts were not expended in our behalf would be slandering Jesus and our Creator's immense sacrifices for our well being from ages past and up until the present day.

PPPS - - QUESTION: Is my grammar clear enough to be easily understood and to fulfill >-- James 3:17 ? - I pray for some who would become "evangelistic" disciples of the Berean type. [See: >-- Acts 17:11]

Note: the underlined non-bold words and scriptures have had the quick-click-links inserted into the words and scriptures to quickly define these for those who are interested in ministering more ably to any confused evolutionist - atheist OR "Christians".

<><> <><

<><> <><

AJCServant · Mar 6, 2014

AJCServant said:
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
Hi all,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I had previously posted the following excerpt and scripture into another thread, and now here for good-hearted-souls to consider the many scriptural admonition's concerning how the ruthless and lawless Beelzebub has oftentimes seduced some to fulfill 2 Peter 3:16[/FONT].

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]A strong delusion occurs whenever ones heart is far removed from mentoring others with God's love, and His life strengthening prudence.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Isaiah 29:13-14 - - Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the (demonic) doctrines-of-men: therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.[/FONT]

Isaiah 29 ESV - The Siege of Jerusalem

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

AJCServant said:
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><

[/FONT]<>PS There are several key scriptures that continually govern my thoughts, hopes and prayers for these threads, of which some are given below:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]John[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 8:31-32 - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]To the Judeans who had believed him, Jesus said, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If you [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]hold to my teaching[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], you are really my disciples. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Timothy[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 3:16-17 - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]All ([/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Holy[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]) scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]: that the man of God may become perfect ([/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]mature[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]), [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]thoroughly furnished unto all [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]good works[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Timothy [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2:15-16 - -[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]a workman that needeth not to be ashamed[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]rightly dividing the word of truth.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]16 But [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]shun[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ungodliness[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. (KJV) (ESV) 16 But [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]avoid[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ungodliness[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Titus 2:13 - - Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious (i.e. fruitful) appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Peter[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 3:10&18 - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. . . . Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]error[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] of the lawless [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ones [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]and fall from your secure position[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]PPS - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]My fervent prayer are that some would take time to consider becoming a more integral-part in working alongside the heavenly host of highly educated and technological angels that sacrificed for ages to build the New Jerusalem that Abraham looked forward to seeing, and what we all might see someday as seen in the attached image to Post [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]#[/FONT]63 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]NewJerusalem ForTheSaints _gif.gif at <>http://www.christianforums.com/t7756553-7/#post63771233<> and as taught in Revelation 21 and by a Holy (i.e. set-apart-for-service) and faith-filled Paul in Colossians 1:20.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]PPPS - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As written in the aforementioned gif file, what radically enlightened me to Beelzebub's powerfully enslaving hatred towards our Shekhinah Creator's vision for us all, was in the fact that the tallest pyramid that has ever been constructed by God's enslaved children was exactly 1.2 Greek Olympic stadia on each edge, which is exactly 1/10,000th the dimensions of New Jerusalem in Revelation 21[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. Also the pyramids in the Mid-East became tombs for ancient rulers who set themselves up as gods, and those in Central and South America became heinous platforms for innocent human sacrifices to occult demons who also set themselves up as gods. So let us pray for vision wisdom strength and courage and rise up and overcome evil with good as we would proclaim the simplicity of the Gospel of Christ Jesus, and thereby work alongside the Heavenly Host in a much greater way in annihilating the works of the devil in our earth. His Kingdom come His will be done in the earth as it is done in Heaven, Amen, come quickly Lord Jesus.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]PPPPS - Any further "edifying", "wholesome" and helpful comments anyone?[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

Alfred Persson · Mar 7, 2014

Ronald said:
By deduction, man left to himself is evil to the core. Prior to Noah, the Holy Spirit did not guide men internally, they did not have the law nor did they have a temple for Him to dwell in. The world was left unrestrained, which was why He destroyed it for His purpose. This was a lesson in history for us as well. God works through man, manifests His power. During the GT, God allows Satan a short time to do his thing and empower the world, but then Judgment comes and ends it.
I've heard Chuck Missler teach on the Nephilim 20 years ago. Since then I have reasoned that angels could not procreate with human women. God is the Creator of life and did not give them this ability. They can appear as angels of light. The men of old and renown were giants --if you lived 900 years you would be too. They were just men. This verse: "the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men..."Gen. 6:4, simply means men of God as we are who would mate with unequally yoked unbelievers and had children. That's my take. I do not think angels were ever capable of procreating. The fallen angels were probably jealous of us and that we were loved and special to God. I'm sure it Got Satan bent out of shape.

Click to expand...

Your theory renders God capricious, destroying the world because HE didn't restrain evil? That cannot be correct.

Jude clearly believed the angels sinned with women:

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jud 1:6-7 NKJ)

The key factors are these (toutoismasculine, referring to angels [v. 6], not cities [feminine], and the words different flesh (sarkos heteras). Thus the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was seeking union with different flesh in a way similar to what the sons of God (angels?) did (Gen 6:2) when they mingled with the daughters of men (humans).- Blum, E. A. (1981). Jude. In F. E. Gaebelein (Ed.), The Expositors Bible Commentary: Hebrews through Revelation (Vol. 12, p. 390). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House.

Normally angels don't marry, but it does not follow they can't forsake their proper habitation and go after strange flesh.

Perhaps their angelic bodies are mutable to some degree, to enable sex. They managed it somehow.

Either way, Christ's words do not mean angels cannot marry, that wasn't His point at all, which was they are immortal and don't have to marry to propagate the species.

I don't agree the Nephilim were giants, I interpret that as found in the Targums, they are fallen ones, fallen angels. They are mentioned as contemporaries with the sons of God took wives and bore the "men of renown," implying they had a hand in it.

God became very angry at man for their collaborating with His enemies and using their beautiful daughters to seduce the sons of God, who were likely sent to counteract the evil of the Nephilim.

There was a war between Satan's seed, and the Woman's seed, that was ongoing, and God was losing. So before the entire human race was corrupted with angelic dna, Noah who was perfect in his generations and his family were saved.

This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. (Gen 6:9 NKJ)

The flood was to cleanse angelic dna from the human race.

1 When humankind began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,
2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humankind were beautiful. Thus they took wives for themselves from any they chose.
3 So the LORD said, "My spirit will not remain in humankind indefinitely, since they are mortal. They will remain for 120 more years."
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (and also after this) when the sons of God were having sexual relations with the daughters of humankind, who gave birth to their children. They were the mighty heroes of old, the famous men.
5 But the LORD saw that the wickedness of humankind had become great on the earth. Every inclination of the thoughts of their minds was only evil all the time.
6 The LORD regretted that he had made humankind on the earth, and he was highly offended. (Gen 6:1-6 NET)

AJCServant · Mar 11, 2014

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Is anyone reading this thread “ready” for the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]blessed hope[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] to occur today by having prepared their heart and soul and body and their surrounding culture for that glorious (i.e. fruitful) event?[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

AND OR

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Is anyone reading this thread proclaiming [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the good news of God's love for prodigal sinners[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]? Who we "all" have been at some time in our life when we had strayed away from our labors [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]for our Father in Heaven in His[/FONT][/FONT] harvest fields and squandered our wages with riotous living.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]

Bible2 · Mar 12, 2014

AJCServant said in post 151:

Is anyone reading this thread ready for the blessed hope to occur today by having prepared their heart and soul and body and their surrounding culture for that glorious (i.e. fruitful) event?

The blessed hope (Titus 2:13) is the hope of eternal life: "In hope of eternal life" (Titus 1:2), "that blessed hope" (Titus 2:13), "the hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:7), by which is meant the hope of obtaining an immortal physical resurrection body (Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39) at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which won't occur until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). Also, Jesus himself is the hope of believers (1 Timothy 1:1b), for he himself is eternal life (John 14:6) and only by believing in him can people have eternal life (John 3:36).

Ronald · Mar 12, 2014

Alfred Persson said:
Alfred Persson said:

Ronald said:

Your theory renders God capricious, destroying the world because HE didn't restrain evil? That cannot be correct.

Click to expand...

You are implying that God destroyed the world not because of evil rendered by man but because angels had sex with women and corrupted the dna?
I've heard that one. Angels can't procreate. You are extrapolating this whole theory from one verse. That is quite going out on the limb.

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

Click to expand...

All that means is that they interfered with lives of men, through temptation, corrupting his will, etc. Their abode was heaven and they were supposed to do as they were told.

7

as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jud 1:6-7 NKJ)

Click to expand...

Homosexuality and bestiality is what this is.

Perhaps their angelic bodies are mutable to some degree, to enable sex. They managed it somehow.

Click to expand...

They are spiritual beings that can appear as humans but not procreate.

Either way, Christ's words do not mean angels cannot marry, that wasn't His point at all, which was they are immortal and don't have to marry to propagate the species.

Click to expand...

There is no marriage with angels nor will there be any marriage among humans in heaven either. Frankly, there is no evidence of female angels, they could appear as one though.

Click to expand...

AJCServant · Mar 12, 2014

Bible2 said:
AJCServant said in post 151:

Is anyone reading this thread “ready” for the blessed hope to occur today by having prepared their heart and soul and body and their surrounding culture for that glorious (i.e. fruitful) event?

Click to expand...

The blessed hope (Titus 2:13) is the hope of eternal life: "In hope of eternal life" (Titus 1:2), "that blessed hope" (Titus 2:13), "the hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:7), by which is meant the hope of obtaining an immortal physical resurrection body (Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39) at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which won't occur until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). Also, Jesus himself is the hope of believers (1 Timothy 1:1b), for he himself is eternal life (John 14:6) and only by believing in him can people have eternal life (John 3:36).

AJCServant said:
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
<><

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Is anyone reading this thread “ready” for the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]blessed hope[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] to occur today by having prepared their heart and soul and body and their surrounding culture for that glorious (i.e. fruitful) event?[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<>< [/FONT]

The blessed hope mentioned in the above post is found in Titus 2:13 as follows:

Titus 2:13 - - W hile we wait for the blessed hope -- the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

("glory" i.e. a "fruitful" appearing of Jesus' eternal efforts, wisdom and "glory" in the eastern clouds, IMHO; i.e. see Revelation 21:10-11)

i.e.

Revelation 21:10-11 - - And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.

<><> <><

PS - I have been taught to aspire to the KIS method of evangelism, i.e. K.I.S. = "keep it simple."

But I have also been taught to strive to stay "infallible" as Paul taught us to aspire to do, by "ministering" to others with doctrines that are NOT derived by men's imaginations, [+] but are from Jesus' Holy Spirit, and would be proven to be from God by their "fruit" in engendering "understanding" and then "holiness" towards our God, and then towards "all" others within the souls of the hearers.

Holiness = set apart for "service" to God and "all" others. [++]

[+: Romans 3:4 - - Let God be true, and every "man" a liar. & Isaiah 29:13-14]

[++: Matthew 5:48 - - Be perfect, (mature) therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot the missionary.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><[/FONT]

AJCServant · Mar 13, 2014

AJCServant said:
Hi all,

Has anyone seen in any of these blog-threads where anyone believes in evolution and NOT that we were created by an "intelligent-design"? Many years ago I had talked with "some" Mormons who did or at least at the time I felt they did, but these are a rare few in "Christian" circles, and in my view these "Christians" were also in a "cult" that would blind their eyes to allow them to be so inclined.

The truth about the errs of Darwinist evolutionary theory should be simple to see and to then explain to others, since even from Darwin's-Doubts he himself saw there was "NO" "spectrum" of any animals between any of the distinct "species" we have today, i.e. no missing- links have ever been found between say dolphins and whales or horses and donkeys, such as a spectrum between the two of 10% 20% 30% 40% 50% etc. in other words an entire spectrum would be in the fossil record to have "evolved" between any two "similar" animals.

Here is what I consider the most important excerpt of Darwin's book "Origin of the Species" Chapter 6, “Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms.”

And so that even in the veterinary labs we have in our modern days, a "spectrum" between the species that would not become sterile in the next generation has "never" been created by any human, since it was our Heavenly Creator's wisdom to intelligently design all of earth's DNA to never allow these types of manipulations to ever occur by chance OR even by intensive artificial efforts.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
See <> http://x-evolutionist.com/charles-d...ith-his-theory-in-his-book-origin-of-species/ <> AND/OR <> http://www.literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/the-origin-of-species/chapter-06.html <> AND/OR <> http://www.literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/the-origin-of-species/chapter-09.html <>
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
AND/OR these links:
[/FONT]Darwin Expected Innumerable Transitional Forms, but they Do not Exist
Darwin Admitted that Events like The Cambrian Explosion would be Fatal to the Theory

Thanks for any help.[/FONT]

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant of Christ Jesus
AJCServant

<><> <><

PS - FYI - A good "Darwin's-Doubt" video is at ><> "Darwin's Doubt" with Stephen Meyer on Vimeo <><

<><> <><

PPS - - In my view a quick study of the "obviousness" of> - - “index fossils” and the many various> - - “Extinction Events” between these> - - “index fossils” is the strongest argument in favor of "intelligent-design" and against Darwinian-evolutionary-theory that evangelistic - Christians “should” become familiar with, that would help us-all to make> - - Romans 1:19-20 more easily understood by many confused souls in our naive untaught generation.

Very simply, like we see today with larger animals, there has never been any "spectrum" of evolutionary- life present in any of the plankton sized index fossils.

Which "should" reveal to anyone who is not blinded by their sins about our Creator's infinite wisdom to intelligently "plant" [+] or "seed" into the earth over and over with "new" species of sea-life plankton after each extinction event, such as a near earth nova. Simply so that in our modern day we would more easily recognize our Creator's eternal patience and wisdom to "build" the earth and humankind with Jesus' oversights exactly as God the Father has designed.

[+: NOTE SEE> - - Genesis 2:8 AND ALSO as mentioned in 2Kings 10:36, 1Chronicles 29:27, and 2Peter 3:8, a "yom" day to the Lord can be much much longer than 24 hours, especially before the fourth day when our Eternal Creator caused our earth's sun and moon to form, that then “began” to eventually establish our present 24 hour day whenever the earth's rotation “ultimately” became "fixed" with a 24 hour rotation period as taught in Genesis 1:14.]

So the truth behind an old earth creation would show the eternal vision and "immeasurable" agape-love our eternal Creator has shown for modern man in this pivotal generation, for Him to take the almost infinite efforts to radically change the sea-life plankton in each new age - simply in order that our pivotal generation might "safely" drill for oil and gas by using these index fossils to identify in advance the locations of dangerous high pressure oil and gas zones while a well was being drilled.

It would also show the almost infinite efforts of Christ Jesus who scripture says was tasked with "creating" and "building" and "planting" into the earth exactly as it has been built the way we see it today.

Whereby many ages ago Jesus and His father designed and created our world wherein a few billion souls could eventually become created and then "trained" to become "like the angels" and eventually "formed into the image of Jesus Christ". [[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]See [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Matthew 22:30[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mark 12:25[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] & [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Luke 20:36[/FONT] and also [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Romans 8:29[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] & [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2Corinthians 3:18[/FONT].]

This "vision" for our present pivotal generation took an immense amount of effort that was expended by Jesus and the entire Heavenly Host of eternal angels, and IMHO anyone who would say that these immense efforts were not expended in our behalf would be slandering Jesus and our Creator's immense sacrifices for our well being from ages past and up until the present day.

PPPS - - QUESTION: Is my grammar clear enough to be easily understood and to fulfill> - - James 3:17? - I pray for some who would become "evangelistic" disciples of the Berean type. [See:> - - Acts 17:11]

Note: the underlined have had links inserted to quickly find these for those who are interested in ministering more ably to any confused evolutionist - atheist OR "Christians".

<><> <><

<><> <><

AJCServant · Mar 14, 2014

<><> <><
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In my view an ultra-dogmatic Darwinist- evolutionary- view AND ALSO an ultra-dogmatic literalist- view of "ALL" the scriptures and also our creation are both evidence of the "strong-delusion" that hinders mankind from understanding the character, nature and "eternal-vision" of our Father God in Heaven, and also of the Heavenly Host, of which our Creator hopes we will "all" be willing to be a part of someday in the eternity ahead of us all. [Any who would desire to be a disciple of Jesus as the Bereans were - should pray for "understanding" and then "wisdom" concerning 1Timothy 2:4 AND 2Peter 3:9]

A strong delusion occurs whenever ones "heart" is far removed from mentoring others with God's love, and His life strengthening prudence. Or as "holy" scripture states, one has become non-empathetic and "hard-hearted" towards our Shekhinah Creator's efforts and plights in warring against "all" evils, ignorance, indolence, and fears to "destroy" the works of the devil in the earth, and also stiff-necked to not obey the "gentle" voice and leading of His Holy Spirit. [+]

[/FONT][+: <> Isaiah 29:13-14 - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the (demonic) doctrines-of-men: therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
Isaiah 29 ESV - The Siege of Jerusalem

[/FONT]Consider:

Deuteronomy 10:16 - - (16) Circumcise your hearts therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer . . . (19) And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.

Acts 7:51 - - You stiff-necked people! Your hearts . . .[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

Matthew 13:15

Matthew 15:8

Ephesians 4:18 <>]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Any helpful or edifying comments anyone?

A Servant of Jesus Christ
AservantofJC
[John 3:17[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]]
[/FONT]
<><> <><

[/FONT]PS - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]My fervent prayer are that some would take time to consider becoming a more integral-part in working alongside the heavenly host of highly educated and technological angels that sacrificed for ages to build the New Jerusalem that Abraham looked forward to seeing, and what we “all” might see someday as seen in the attached image to Post [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]#[/FONT]63 “[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]NewJerusalem ForTheSaints _gif.gif” at <>http://www.christianforums.com/t7756553-7/#post63771233<> and as taught in Revelation 21 and by a Holy (i.e. set-apart-for-service) and faith-filled Paul in Colossians 1:20.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]PPS - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As written in the aforementioned gif file, what radically enlightened me to Beelzebub's powerfully enslaving “hatred” towards our Shekhinah Creator's vision for us all, was in the fact that the tallest pyramid that has ever been constructed by God's enslaved children was exactly 1.2 Greek Olympic “stadia” on each edge, which is exactly 1/10,000th the dimensions of New Jerusalem in Revelation 21[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. Also the pyramids in the Mid-East became tombs for ancient rulers who set themselves up as gods, and those in Central and South America became heinous platforms for innocent human sacrifices to occult demons who also set themselves up as gods. So let us pray for vision wisdom strength and courage and rise up and overcome evil with good as we would proclaim the simplicity of the Gospel of Christ Jesus, and thereby work alongside the Heavenly Host in a much greater way in annihilating the works of the devil in our earth. His Kingdom come His will be done in the earth as it is done in Heaven, Amen, come quickly Lord Jesus.
[/FONT]
<><> <><

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<>PPPS There are several key scriptures that continually govern my thoughts, hopes and prayers for these threads, of which some are given below:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Timothy[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 3:16-17 - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]All ([/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Holy[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]) scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]: that the man of God may become perfect ([/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]mature[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]), [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]thoroughly furnished unto all [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]good works[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Timothy [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2:15-16 - -[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]a workman that needeth not to be ashamed[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]rightly dividing the word of truth.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 16 But [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]shun[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ungodliness[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. (KJV) (ESV) 16 But [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]avoid[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ungodliness[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Titus 2:13 - - Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious (i.e. fruitful) appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Peter[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 3:10&18 - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. . . . Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]error[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] of the lawless [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ones [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]and fall from your secure position[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.[/FONT]

<><> <><

Bible2 · Mar 15, 2014

AJCServant said in post 155:

Has anyone seen in any of these blog-threads where anyone believes in evolution and NOT that we were created by an "intelligent-design"?

An old earth and evolution can be true without contradicting creationism, because evolution per se (random mutation and survival of the fittest) can coexist with miraculous creation, just as an automated process created by a human (e.g. a computer program which makes random, colorful pictures which can be seen as art) can coexist with that human sometimes performing a task himself directly (painting some pictures by hand). I.e., evolution per se can simply be a process created by God to allow new, adaptive species to arise naturally over time, and this process can coexist with him sometimes creating species miraculously.

Some people ask why would God wait millions of years for something to evolve from a one-celled organism when he could just instantly create it? He could do that for the same reason that he has a human start out as a one-celled organism, a zygote in its mother's womb. He then has it only gradually develop through natural means into an embryo, and then into a fetus, and then into a baby, and then into a toddler, and then into an adolescent, and then into an adult. And he has other animals develop gradually in a similar way. And he has plants start out as seeds. So it must give God pleasure to see living organisms develop naturally over time, just as it must give him pleasure to also sometimes create plants and animals miraculously, instantaneously, already fully-formed, like he did in Genesis 1:11-13 and Genesis 1:20-27, during 3 of the 7 literal, 24-hour days of Genesis 1:3 to 2:4.

--

Creationism includes what could be called the double-gap theory, meaning that there could have been two different gaps of time in Genesis chapters 1-2, the first gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, and the 2nd gap between Genesis 2:4 and Genesis 2:5. Genesis 1:1 could have occurred some 4.5 billion years ago, when God first created the planet earth and its atmosphere (the first heaven, in which the birds fly: Genesis 1:20b). Between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 some 4.5 billion years could have occurred in which God could have allowed his own created process of evolution to serve as a mechanism by which new species arose on the earth. During those same 4.5 billion years God could have also gone outside of evolution and created new species miraculously whenever he wanted to (cf. punctuated equilibria).

Genesis 1:2 could refer to the condition of the earth only about 12,000 years ago (at the end of the Paleolithic period), after some cataclysm, such as a comet strike, had killed off all life on the planet (both evolved and miraculously created), and had submerged all land areas in water (comets contain huge amounts of water), and had ruined the atmosphere. The impact of the comet could have also knocked the earth out of its orbit around its original star, so that the earth was sent hurtling into the darkness of interstellar space as a "rogue planet" (astronomers estimate that rogue planets in our galaxy could outnumber the stars in our galaxy). Genesis 1:3 to 2:4 could then refer to God, over a period of 6 literal, 24-hour days (some 12,000 years ago, at the start of the Neolithic period), miraculously restoring to the earth light, a good atmosphere, dry land, and life, including a race of male and female homo sapiens sapiens, after God had miraculously restored land plants (Genesis 1:11-13) and land animals (Genesis 1:24-25) to the earth.

Then, only about 6,000 years ago God miraculously created on the earth an individual male homo sapiens sapiens named Adam in an uninhabited desert land (Genesis 2:5-7; there, the original Hebrew word translated as "earth" can simply refer to a certain "land": e.g. Genesis 2:11). After that, God planted the plants of the local, Garden of Eden in that desert land (Genesis 2:8-9) and God placed Adam in that garden (Genesis 2:15). Then God miraculously created the animals of the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:19). Then God miraculously created in the Garden of Eden an individual female homo sapiens sapiens (Genesis 2:22) whom Adam named Eve (Genesis 3:20).

Because Adam was created only about 6,000 years ago (based on Biblical chronology), yet there are homo sapiens sapiens fossils said to be as old as about 200,000 years, God could have first created homo sapiens sapiens (or it could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) as far back as about 200,000 years. Also, all the different hominid forms the fossils of which long predate or are as old as the earliest fossils of homo sapiens sapiens, and which preceding or coexisting hominid forms we don't consider to have been fully human like us (such as homo sapiens neanderthalensis), could have all been created by God (or could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) over millions of years prior to the first appearance of homo sapiens sapiens on the earth.

And this doesn't even get into the possibly trillion other inhabited planets in the universe on which homo sapiens sapiens (or similar or far more advanced life-forms) could have been created by God (or could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) billions of years prior to the first appearance of homo sapiens sapiens on the earth. For the universe could be about 14 billion years old, and there are something like 100 billion different galaxies, each containing something like 100 billion different stars. So even if only one star out of every 10 billion stars has an inhabited planet, there would still be a trillion inhabited planets. And on most of these, God could have begun his miraculous work (and the work of his created process of evolution) billions of years before beginning his miraculous work (and the work of his created process of evolution) on the earth.

AJCServant said in post 155:

Any who would desire to be a disciple of Jesus as the Bereans were - should pray for "understanding" and then "wisdom" concerning 1Timothy 2:4 AND 2Peter 3:9

1 Timothy 2:4 means God will have all manner of people believe in Jesus and be saved (Revelation 5:9b), not absolutely all people (Romans 9:11-24), just as, for example, John 3:26c means all manner of people came to Jesus during his first-coming earthly ministry, not absolutely all people. The original Greek word (pas, G3956) translated as "all" can simply mean "all manner of" (e.g. Acts 10:12). It doesn't have to mean absolutely all.

1 Timothy 2:4 doesn't mean absolutely all people can believe in Jesus. For other verses show some people (the nonelect) can't (John 6:65, John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42). Also, 1 Timothy 2:4 doesn't mean absolutely all people will be saved, for other verses show most people won't be (Matthew 25:41,46, Matthew 13:38-42, Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14).

AJCServant said in post 155:

Any who would desire to be a disciple of Jesus as the Bereans were - should pray for "understanding" and then "wisdom" concerning 1Timothy 2:4 AND 2Peter 3:9

2 Peter 3:9b means God isn't willing any of the elect perish, but that all the elect repent. For the "any" and the "all" refer back to the "us" (or "you"), which refers back to the elect (2 Peter 1:10). God is willing the nonelect perish, for he purposely created them to perish (Romans 9:21-22). The ability to repent comes only as a miraculous gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18), and he gives it only to the elect. For he isn't willing the nonelect repent.

God doesn't love everyone: he hates the nonelect (Romans 9:11-22). During their lifetime, God hardens the nonelect in their sinfulness instead of showing them his mercy (Romans 9:18), because he created them to be vessels of his wrath (Romans 9:20-22, Proverbs 16:4). They were of old ordained to condemnation (Jude 1:4). They were appointed to disobedience (1 Peter 2:8, Acts 2:23). But God never forces them or anyone else to commit sin. He never even tempts anyone to commit sin (James 1:13-15). All people will justly be held accountable for their deeds (Romans 2:6-8), for neither election nor nonelection takes away the free will of people.

God created nonelect people to be vessels of his wrath instead of vessels of his mercy so he might eternally make known his wrath and power (Romans 9:21-22, Proverbs 16:4, Revelation 14:10-11). And God created elect people to be vessels of his mercy so he might eternally make known his mercy, glory, and wisdom (Romans 9:23, Ephesians 3:10, Ephesians 1:8,11).

God wants these aspects of his nature to be made known to both humans and angels (Ephesians 3:10), neither of which group yet knows experientially the full extent of God's qualities and abilities (1 Corinthians 2:9; 1 Peter 1:12b). For example, the full extent of God's wrath won't be known to humans and angels until Satan and his fallen angels and all of unsaved humanity are cast into the eternal suffering of the lake of fire and brimstone (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11), and saved humans and holy angels go forth from the city of New Jerusalem on the new earth to witness the suffering of the unsaved in the lake of fire (Isaiah 66:24), the eternal hell (Mark 9:45-46), and realize by seeing it not only the extent of God's wrath, but by it, by way of contrast, the extent of God's mercy toward them (Lamentations 3:22-23). Just as "up" can't be eternally known for what it is without the eternal coexistence of "down", so God's mercy can't be eternally known for what it is without the eternal coexistence of his wrath.

AJCServant · Mar 15, 2014

AJCServant said:
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

Hi all,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I had previously posted the following excerpt and scripture into another thread, and now here for good-hearted-souls to consider the many scriptural admonition's concerning how the ruthless and lawless Beelzebub has oftentimes seduced some to fulfill> - - 2 Peter 3:16[/FONT].

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]A strong delusion occurs whenever ones “heart” is far removed from mentoring others with God's love, and His life strengthening prudence.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Isaiah 29:13-14 - - Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the (demonic) doctrines-of-men: therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.[/FONT]

Isaiah 29 ESV - The Siege of Jerusalem

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The previous scripture above, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Isaiah[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] 29:13-14[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], was most [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]obviously[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] fulfilled in 70AD whenever the Jews were celebrating their “mandatory” feast days at Jerusalem “while” being surrounded by the Roman army.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The Jewish Nation's “corporate” blindness that led to 70AD historically took root after the Babylonian Captivity whenever some “religious” “legalistic” scribes were “allowed” to use various scriptures as their authoritative proof-texts without others effectively voicing themselves concerning how the character and nature of God was being portrayed via those proof-texts. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our Heavenly Father had obviously “allowed” these wayward texts to be published as “tares” within the scriptures - simply to train His leaders-in-training, like Job again became, to learn to discern eternally holy doctrines that would promote God's holiness and love and vision for “all” of ones “neighbors” [+] from “demonic-doctrines-of-men” that do not.
[*] [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]And for His leaders-in-training, like Job again became, to then learn how to work in concert with His Holy Spirit to “reprove” any slanders that promoted the opposite of the truth about His unchanging and eternal vision, nature and character. [Two scriptural examples of “non-believing” religious leaders who were being “trained” in God's ways of “discernment” were the scribe in> - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mark 12:28-34[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] and Gamaleial in> - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Acts 5:34-39.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][+: To investigate how Jesus' definition of one's “neighbor” was contrary to a “religious” scribe's viewpoint see via this link to> - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Luke 10:29[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][*: The most “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]obvious[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]” [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]example of a “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]demonic-doctrine-of-men[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]” inserted into the Torah is> - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Numbers 15:30-36[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]whereby the words used for “cut-off” should never have implied executing anyone by pelting them to death with stones[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], since these were the words used to “admonish” the “faithful” non-idolaters to separate themselves from any persons who “blatantly” chose to be “idolatrous” and or to pursue “self-destructive” “heathen” practices; as Moses “admonished” in> - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Leviticus 19:17[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] and as Jesus “admonished” in> - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Matthew 18:17[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] and afterwards the Apostle Paul again repeated these same “admonitions” via his writings in> - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1 Corinthians 5:11[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Whenever we look at the maturing process within the lives and writings of Paul and Peter, we see that our loving Creator was continually without favoritism gently pruning, sifting, chastening and encouraging them until their final day. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]One can easily see Paul's maturing process within the following review of his writings.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Dates given below were obtained from the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]notes within the [/FONT]ESV-Study-Bible.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]~AD57 – Romans 5 (cf 1John 2:2) - all justified and made righteous[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]~AD57 – Romans 11:32 - all receive mercy[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]~AD54 – 1Cor 5:5 – destruction of their demon possessed flesh -[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]- so their spirit may be saved [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]eternally[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]~AD54 – 1Cor 15:22 - all made alive in Christ[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]~AD54 – 1Cor 15:27 - all subject to him[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]~AD55 – 2Cor 5:19 - all reconciled[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]~AD62 – Eph 1:9-10 - all gathered up in him[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]~AD62 – Phil 2:10-11 - all will worship him[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]~AD62 – Col 1:20 - all reconciled in Christ[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]~AD64 – 1Tim 2:4 - salvation of all desired[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]~AD64 – 1Tim 2:6 - Christ was ransomed for all[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]~AD64 – 1Tim 4:10 - Christ was savior of all - [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]-[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]especially (and therefore not limited to) those who believe[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<>[/FONT]

Continue with link to:

AJCServant said:
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
When Paul was less “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]mature[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]” in his writings he wrote as is noted in this link to> - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Galatians 5:12[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] in ~AD48[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] . . . [/FONT]

<><

Hi all,

I re-posted the above for clarity to elaborate on another's post.

Let us always remind our "souls" our "children" and our "neighbors" that scripture teaches over and over that delusions "always" begin with a hard-heart [+] towards God and an idolatrous "love" for oneself or for sin or for pleasures, which leads one to NOT make the efforts to "learn" the truth about our Father God's Spirit and nature and character and which results in His eternal vision for us "all", "if" we are willing to agape-love Him.

We all need to be better mentors to our culture and to prepare the way for the Blessed-Hope, that "I" pray could soon occur in a glorious and fruitful way, in spite of Beelzebub's seductions to steal, kill, and destroy via the teachings of prodigal-heretics. Who, similarly to what occurred with Paul and also via the legend of "righteous" Job, it will be our Father God's nature and character to always agape-love any prodigal child without favoritism eternally, with the hope they will return to work in His fields alongside His household sooner rather than later; even though presently they had not yet prayed from a good-heart to discern the obvious "truth" about the demonic-doctrines they are promoting, and will suffer for their errs, similarly to Paul and Job's sufferings.

Shalom in Jesus,
A Servant

Bible2 · Mar 16, 2014

AJCServant said in post 158:

Romans 5 (cf 1John 2:2) - all justified and made righteous

In Romans 5:18b, the original Greek word (pas, G3956) translated as "all" can be used in the sense of "all manner of" (e.g. Acts 10:12). Romans 5:18b doesn't mean absolutely all men are justified, for justification requires faith (Romans 5:1), and not all men have faith (2 Thessalonians 3:2). Instead, the principle of Romans 5:18b applies only to the elect (2 Timothy 2:10).

The elect are those individuals who were chosen (elected) and predestinated by God before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13), before they were born (Romans 9:11-24), to become initially saved by faith at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b). This initial salvation is possible only because of Jesus' sacrifice (Romans 3:25-26), which was also foreordained by God before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8; 1 Peter 1:19-20).

Everyone on his own is wholly corrupt (Romans 3:9-12), and so it's impossible for people on their own to ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31; 1 John 5:13) through their own will (Romans 9:16, John 1:13, John 6:65) or their own intellect (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Unsaved people can't understand the gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 1:18) because only initially saved people, who have received the miraculous gift of some measure of God's own Spirit, can understand it (1 Corinthians 2:11-16).

The nonelect can't ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved, even when they're shown the truth (John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42), because the ability to believe in Jesus and the gospel comes only to the elect (Acts 13:48b) wholly by God's grace as a miraculous gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2) as the elect read (or hear) God's Word the Bible (Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, Acts 26:22-23), just as the ability to repent comes only as a miraculous gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18). Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers so that on their own they can't repent and acknowledge the truth of God's Word (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25-26).

AJCServant said in post 158:

Romans 5 (cf 1John 2:2) - all justified and made righteous

Regarding 1 John 2:2, Jesus' divine/human sacrifice was sufficient to forgive the sins of everyone. But it was performed in order to actually forgive the sins not of everyone (Romans 9:18-24) but of only the elect. For Jesus' sheep whom he died to save (John 10:11,14,15) are the elect (1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 3:18; 1 Peter 4:1), those who are able to believe in him (John 10:27), and who will believe in him at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b), as opposed to the nonelect, who can't ever believe in him (John 8:42-47), because they aren't his sheep (John 10:26).

AJCServant said in post 158:

Romans 11:32 - all receive mercy

Romans 11:32 means only that all the elect (Romans 11:28) are shown mercy with regard to their initial salvation as individuals (Romans 9:11-24), not that all people will be shown mercy. For some people were created by God to be nonelect vessels of his wrath, who will never be shown mercy (Romans 9:11-22, Proverbs 16:4, Matthew 13:38-42, John 8:42-47).

AJCServant said in post 158:

1Cor 5:5 – destruction of their demon possessed flesh -
- so their spirit may be saved eternally

The sinful saved person in 1 Corinthians 5 hadn't lost his salvation, for salvation is ultimately lost due to sin only if a saved person refuses to repent from a sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10) until he dies (1 John 5:16) or Jesus returns (Luke 12:45-46). After the sinful saved person in 1 Corinthians 5 was punished by being cast out of the congregation (1 Corinthians 5:13), he repented from his sin while he was still alive, and so he was forgiven and restored to the congregation (2 Corinthians 2:6-10; 1 John 1:9).

Regarding "the destruction of the flesh" in 1 Corinthians 5:5, the original Greek word (olethros, G3639) translated as "destruction" can simply mean punishment. So the "destruction" of the sinful saved person's flesh by Satan can simply mean God as a chastening for unrepentance (Revelation 3:19) would allow that person's flesh to temporarily suffer in some way at the hands of Satan (cf. Luke 13:16). It doesn't require the person be killed by Satan (Job 2:6-7).

AJCServant said in post 158:

1Cor 15:22 - all made alive in Christ

1 Corinthians 15:22 doesn't assure a resurrection to eternal life, because people can be resurrected to damnation (John 5:29, Revelation 20:12-15).

AJCServant said in post 158:

1Cor 15:27 - all subject to him

. . .

Phil 2:10-11 - all will worship him

1 Corinthians 15:27, like Philippians 2:10-11, doesn't say all will be saved. For while all will eventually be made subject to Christ, not all will be saved (Matthew 25:41,46, Matthew 13:38-42), but only a relatively few people (Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14) compared with all of humanity.

AJCServant said in post 158:

2Cor 5:19 - all reconciled

In the Bible, "the world" doesn't have to mean everyone in the world. Just as "the world" in John 15:18 and John 16:8-9,20 doesn't include believers, so "the world" in 2 Corinthians 5:19 doesn't include the nonelect (Romans 9:11-22). And in the case of, for example, John 18:20, it doesn't include the vast majority of the earth's inhabitants at that time, who didn't hear Jesus speak to them during his preaching before his arrest.

AJCServant said in post 158:

Eph 1:9-10 - all gathered up in him

Ephesians 1:9-10 refers only to the ultimate gathering together of all things which will be "in Christ", not things which won't be in Christ (e.g. Matthew 25:41,46, Matthew 13:38-42).

AJCServant said in post 158:

Col 1:20 - all reconciled in Christ

In Colossians 1:20, the original Greek word (pas, G3956) translated as "all" can mean "all manner of" (Acts 10:12). Jesus has reconciled all manner of people to himself (Revelation 5:9b) but not absolutely all people (Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14). For reconciliation requires faith (John 3:36, Romans 3:25-26) and not all people have faith (2 Thessalonians 3:2). Also, only the elect are given God's miraculous gift of faith (Acts 13:48b, Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65). Nonelect people and angels will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone to suffer God's wrath forever (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:45-46).

AJCServant said in post 158:

1Tim 2:4 - salvation of all desired ...

1Tim 2:6 - Christ was ransomed for all ...

1Tim 4:10 - Christ was savior of all

1 Timothy 2:4,6, like 1 Timothy 4:10b, means God will have all manner of people believe in Jesus and be saved (Revelation 5:9b), not absolutely all people (Romans 9:11-24), just as, for example, John 3:26c means all manner of people came to Jesus during his first-coming earthly ministry, not absolutely all people. The original Greek word (pas, G3956) translated as "all" can simply mean "all manner of" (e.g. Acts 10:12). It doesn't have to mean absolutely all.

1 Timothy 2:4,6, like 1 Timothy 4:10b, doesn't mean absolutely all people can believe in Jesus. For other verses show some people (the nonelect) can't (John 6:65, John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42). Also, 1 Timothy 2:4,6, like 1 Timothy 4:10b, doesn't mean absolutely all people will be saved, for other verses show most people won't be (Matthew 25:41,46, Matthew 13:38-42, Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14).

AJCServant said in post 158:

1Tim 4:10 - Christ was savior of all -
-especially (and therefore not limited to) those who believe

Regarding unbelievers, 1 Timothy 4:10b would apply only to those unbelievers who are elect (e.g. Romans 11:28), and so will become believers at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b).

shturt678s · Mar 16, 2014

Alfred Persson said:
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, (2Th 2:11 NKJ)

We can deduce what the "strong delusion" cannot be from the context of 2 Thessalonians, and that leaves only one likely candidate which is found in Genesis chapter 6.

As the Secret Power of lawlessness is spiritism, the Restrainer must be the Holy Spirit

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish,

The simple reason why casts down a strong delusion ("because they received not the agape (not "love") of the truth that they be saved", eg, IIThess.2:11, 12 expounded in Rev.8:7-9:21.

because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
(2Th 2:3-15 NKJ)

Context confirms the "mystery of lawlessness" (secret power inspiring lawlessness) is the antithesis of the "mystery of godliness" (1 Tim 3:16) by the contrast Paul makes:

While the mystery of lawlessness is according to Satan's power and workings inspiring lawlessness and unbelief in the truth of God, "the sanctification by the Spirit" results in holy living and belief in the truth.

These parallels also exist in the following where "another Jesus...a different spirit" (2 Cor 11:3-4) resulted in the strong delusion they had a personal relationship with Jesus and worked miracles in His name:

20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (Mat 7:20-23 NKJ)

Obedience to God's truth is the outward physical evidence one has received the real Holy Spirit of God :

38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
...
42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. (Act 2:38-42 NKJ)

6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1Jo 4:4-6 NKJ)

As Paul notes spiritism was already at work (2 Thess 2:7) so even then there were many antichrists (1 John 2:18)----There must be something else associated with spiritism that was still being restrained which will be allowed to operate in the end time and lead to the "man of sin" taking control.

There is only one likely candidate for "what [specific decree] is restraining" the power of Satan until the end time.

Lets review Genesis c. 6., where the physical appearance of fallen angels called "Nephilim"----contemporaries with the angelic Sons of God sent to counter their evil work on the earth, were subverted when evil men conspired with the Nephilim seducing the angelic "sons of God" with their beautiful daughters so that they followed them in their sin having sexual relations with women, angering God immensely:

1 When humankind began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,
2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humankind were beautiful. Thus they took wives for themselves from any they chose.
3 So the LORD said, "My spirit will not remain in humankind indefinitely, since they are mortal. They will remain for 120 more years."
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (and also after this) when the sons of God were having sexual relations with the daughters of humankind, who gave birth to their children. They were the mighty heroes of old, the famous men.
5 But the LORD saw that the wickedness of humankind had become great on the earth. Every inclination of the thoughts of their minds was only evil all the time.
6 The LORD regretted that he had made humankind on the earth, and he was highly offended.
(Gen 6:1-6 NET)

As these had defiled the seed of the women with Angelic DNA and changed the image of God in man to a Frankenstein image of angels, God flooded the entire earth to cleanse the human race of angelic DNA.

It follows these angels were not permitted to continue their sexual relations with mankind after the flood. So that is the "what" that is being restrained by the Holy Spirit---that is in the power of Satan: THE physical appearance of fallen angels in our realm of existence.

37 "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
38 "For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
39 "and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. (Mat 24:37-39 NKJ)

Possibly confirming this, our LORD Jesus mentions marriage as indicating things would be normal. Why choose that activity to represent normalcy? Could it be He is alluding to what the Nephilim and the "sons of God" did with the daughters of men in Noah's Day, which is the only time in Noah's day we read of women being given in marriage?

THEREFORE, the resources Satan has spent convincing mankind UFO aliens exist, makes sense. A "UFO" landing would render all the world's religions obsolete, allowing the "man of sin" to rise up against all called God or that is worshiped. Changing times and law (Dan 7:25) is then possible.

It follows from all this, the Holy Spirit will stop restraining Satan and his angels from appearing physically on earth, disguised as aliens in a "ufo landing" that deceives the entire earth and gathers them to fight against Christ.

Its interesting that a common frog species in Egypt's Nile, which might be the frog John sees in his vision (Rev 16:13), is the Ptychadena mascareniensis, widespread in savannas from Sierra Leone eastward through West Africa, and northward to Egypt.

Its also known as the Mascarene Rocket Frog because it can fly by expelling a jet of water from its bladder, propelling it forward.

Then the imagery is suggesting the major lie or deception used by the Satanic Trinity to deceive the earth involves UFOs and perhaps their bio-technology.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
(Rev 16:13-14 NKJ)

Old Jack making sure I agape the truth in case someone on this thread has it?

What is the strong delusion God will send in the end time?

Bible2

Guest

Well-Known Member

Exhortations

Well-Known Member

Exhortations

Junior Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Bible2

Guest

Exhortations

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Bible2

Guest

Active Member

Bible2

Guest

Regular Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency