What is the strong delusion God will send in the end time?

[Alfred Persson]

nt

 

[Alfred Persson]

God is not going to send UFO's as the strong delusion. UFO's arriving is not in bible prophecy of such craft arriving, coming and going, the occupants emerging from them and governing mankind in some sort of union. The little horn doesn't come from outer space, but from among a ten king kingdom.

For the type of scenario you are suggesting, there would have to be more detail in the bible than the few verses in Daniel 2 that you have built a complex scenario on. Something with UFO's and aliens might happen, but there is not enough information to build a scenario on it.

The strong delusion is that God will bring the slain Antichrist back to life - that people will believe the Antichrist's big lie that he is God in the flesh.

That is a red herring, of course scripture doesn't refer to UFO ALIENS, they don't exist---THE DELUSION they do is powerful satanic deception and as scripture DOES SAY satanic deception will be at its greatest in the end time, UFO DELUSION could be part of it.


And its incorrect nothing in scripture could be interpreted to indicate UFOs will be part of the "strong delusion" God will "send" in the end time, that is, permit the Devil do:

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. (Rev 16:13 NKJ)

A common frog species in Egypt's Nile, which might be the frog John sees in his vision (Rev 16:13), is the Ptychadena mascareniensis, widespread in savannas from Sierra Leone eastward through West Africa, and northward to Egypt.

Its also known as the Mascarene Rocket Frog because it can fly by expelling a jet of water from its bladder, propelling it forward.

Then the imagery is suggesting the major lie or deception used by the Satanic Trinity to deceive the earth involves UFOs and perhaps their bio-technology.

And there is this exegesis by professors Franz Delitzsch (1813–1890) (University of Liepzig) and Johann Carl Friedrich Keil (1807–1888) professor of Biblical Exegesis and Oriental Languages at the University of Dorpat.Clearly they would be unaffected by any modern ideas about UFOs:

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate. (Dan 9:27 NKJ)


But from such passages as Deut. 32:11, Ex. 19:4, and Ps. 18:11, we perceive the sense in which wings are attributed to the [FONT=&quot]שִׁקּוּצִים, the idolatrous objects.82 In the first of these passages (Deut. 32:11), wings, the wings of an eagle, are attributed to God, because He is the power which raises up Israel, and lifting it up, and carrying it throughout its history, guides it over the earth. In P. 18 wings are attributed to the wind, because the wind is contemplated as the power which carries out the will of God throughout the kingdom of nature. “Thus in this passage wings are attributed to the [FONT=&quot]שִׁקּוּצִים[/FONT], idol-objects, and to idolatry with its abominations, because that shall be the power which lifts upwards the destroyer and desolater, carries him, and moves with him over the earth to lay waste” (Klief.).83

Keil, C. F., & Delitzsch, F. (1996). Commentary on the Old Testament (Vol. 9, pp. 739–740). Peabody, MA: Hendrickson.[/color]

And here the small horn attacks the heavenly army and even has some success:

10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. (Dan 8:10 NKJ)

So God permits some angels are overwhelmed (cp Dan 10:13) to harden the heart of the little horn into believing he could fight God and prevail. This would be like God allowing the magicians of Egypt some success (Exod 7:11-13) so that Pharaoh's heart was hardened into believing it could prevail against God.

So the context then has a double fulfillment like much of what scripture says about earlier antichrists, and the end time antichrist:

And he said, "Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be. (Dan 8:19 NKJ)
[/FONT]

 

[Jipsah]

Then the imagery is suggesting the major lie or deception used by the Satanic Trinity to deceive the earth involves UFOs and perhaps their bio-technology.

Good grief, flying saucers again!

Why not flying horses? Or talking trees? Or some other bit of made-up-out-of-whole-cloth nonsense?

Once again, just for drill. Most, if not ALL, UFOs are plain old everyday mundane stuff that people have failed to recognize. Not space ships, except maybe the launched-from-Cape-Canaveral kind, not demons, not anything spooky-woo at all. Just airplanes or astronomical stuff like planets or meteors or tricksty atmospheric phenomena. Boring, yeah, but that's the way reality tends to be. The notion that if you can't tell what it is it must be something uncanny and otherworldly is simply superstitious fantasy. Sorry, but that's the facts.

 

[Jipsah]

God is not going to send UFO's

Ah, but if we know what they are, they aren't UFOs any more, are they? Nah, the fact is that believing in flying saucers is cool, and some people who ardently believe in flying saucers want to find some validation for their beliefs in Scripture, since there's not really anything else that supports it.

UFO's arriving is not in bible prophecy

Or anywhere else except popular imagination.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Good grief, flying saucers again!

Why not flying horses? Or talking trees? Or some other bit of made-up-out-of-whole-cloth nonsense?

Once again, just for drill. Most, if not ALL, UFOs are plain old everyday mundane stuff that people have failed to recognize. Not space ships, except maybe the launched-from-Cape-Canaveral kind, not demons, not anything spooky-woo at all. Just airplanes or astronomical stuff like planets or meteors or tricksty atmospheric phenomena. Boring, yeah, but that's the way reality tends to be. The notion that if you can't tell what it is it must be something uncanny and otherworldly is simply superstitious fantasy. Sorry, but that's the facts.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Looks like a great wonder to me too.

And we don't know how else space has been weaponized. It is said a orbital rail gun could take out Iran's underground facilities, no problem. Better than any bunker buster.

 

[Alfred Persson]

If you read Josephus you will realize that the "strong delusion" that Paul spoke about was the delusion that the Zealots believed that if war broke out between the Jews and the Romans that they would be given the victory by divine intervention. That WAS the delusion that Paul spoke to and it happened just 14 years after he wrote it.

I disagree, the strong delusion happens in the end time just before the return of Christ. 2000 years is too long for "just before."

 

[Jipsah]

And we don't know how else space has been weaponized. It is said a orbital rail gun could take out Iran's underground facilities, no problem. Better than any bunker buster.

Don't really need the rail gun. Larger variations of the Project Thor "smart crowbar" would do the job quite nicely. All you gotta do is drop 'em, gravity and momentum do the rest. No warhead necessary, just the kinetic energy associated with traveling at 12,000 feet (that's 2.3 miles) a second.

No "UFOs", demons, or nephilim required.

 

[Douggg]

That is a red herring, of course scripture doesn't refer to UFO ALIENS, they don't exist---THE DELUSION they do is powerful satanic deception and as scripture DOES SAY satanic deception will be at its greatest in the end time, UFO DELUSION could be part of it.


And its incorrect nothing in scripture could be interpreted to indicate UFOs will be part of the "strong delusion" God will "send" in the end time, that is, permit the Devil do:

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. (Rev 16:13 NKJ)

A common frog species in Egypt's Nile, which might be the frog John sees in his vision (Rev 16:13), is the Ptychadena mascareniensis, widespread in savannas from Sierra Leone eastward through West Africa, and northward to Egypt.

Its also known as the Mascarene Rocket Frog because it can fly by expelling a jet of water from its bladder, propelling it forward.

Then the imagery is suggesting the major lie or deception used by the Satanic Trinity to deceive the earth involves UFOs and perhaps their bio-technology.

And there is this exegesis by professors Franz Delitzsch (1813–1890) (University of Liepzig) and Johann Carl Friedrich Keil (1807–1888) professor of Biblical Exegesis and Oriental Languages at the University of Dorpat.Clearly they would be unaffected by any modern ideas about UFOs:

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate. (Dan 9:27 NKJ)


But from such passages as Deut. 32:11, Ex. 19:4, and Ps. 18:11, we perceive the sense in which wings are attributed to the [FONT=&quot]שִׁקּוּצִים, the idolatrous objects.82 In the first of these passages (Deut. 32:11), wings, the wings of an eagle, are attributed to God, because He is the power which raises up Israel, and lifting it up, and carrying it throughout its history, guides it over the earth. In P. 18 wings are attributed to the wind, because the wind is contemplated as the power which carries out the will of God throughout the kingdom of nature. “Thus in this passage wings are attributed to the [FONT=&quot]שִׁקּוּצִים[/FONT], idol-objects, and to idolatry with its abominations, because that shall be the power which lifts upwards the destroyer and desolater, carries him, and moves with him over the earth to lay waste” (Klief.).83

Keil, C. F., & Delitzsch, F. (1996). Commentary on the Old Testament (Vol. 9, pp. 739–740). Peabody, MA: Hendrickson.[/color]

And here the small horn attacks the heavenly army and even has some success:

10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. (Dan 8:10 NKJ)

So God permits some angels are overwhelmed (cp Dan 10:13) to harden the heart of the little horn into believing he could fight God and prevail. This would be like God allowing the magicians of Egypt some success (Exod 7:11-13) so that Pharaoh's heart was hardened into believing it could prevail against God.

So the context then has a double fulfillment like much of what scripture says about earlier antichrists, and the end time antichrist:

And he said, "Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be. (Dan 8:19 NKJ)
[/FONT]

The starting point for understanding the Antichrist and end times prophecies is that the Antichrist has to be the perceived King of Israel, descended from king David. That's the starting point. Not aliens or ufo's.

Work the ufo's, alien theories in after the Antichrist has declared himself God, is killed for it, then is brought back to life, possessed by the unclean spirit of the beast ascending from the bottomless pit. There is then, after those things, the war in heaven, Satan and his angels cast down, shorty after the mid-point of the seven years. If there is a ufo, alien elements with the aliens being the cast down angels, it is then.

But the Antichrist is a man, a Jew, who will be the perceived King of Israel, mashiach, false of course. That's the starting point for building an end times scenario.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Don't really need the rail gun. Larger variations of the Project Thor "smart crowbar" would do the job quite nicely. All you gotta do is drop 'em, gravity and momentum do the rest. No warhead necessary, just the kinetic energy associated with traveling at 12,000 feet (that's 2.3 miles) a second.

No "UFOs", demons, or nephilim required.

Yup, that's the idea of an orbital rail gun, it could devastate a mountain, be better than any bunkerbuster.

I'm curious how you view astronauts who report they have seen ufos, like Borman, Buzz Aldrin, Neil Armstrong etc. I think there's a dozen or so claiming this.

Nuts, or deceived?

 

[Alfred Persson]

The starting point for understanding the Antichrist and end times prophecies is that the Antichrist has to be the perceived King of Israel, descended from king David. That's the starting point. Not aliens or ufo's.

I never said the Antichrist wouldn't be human, he must be, if he is the "Anti (assuming the guise of, to oppose) Christ.

Scripture reveals Satan is a rational creature, he does things for a reason.

Therefore, as UFOs are his work, he has a reason he does it. The best reason for spending resources convincing mankind ufos exist, is to fool them into believing there is no God.

 

[Douggg]

I never said the Antichrist wouldn't be human, he must be, if he is the "Anti (assuming the guise of, to oppose) Christ.

Scripture reveals Satan is a rational creature, he does things for a reason.

Therefore, as UFOs are his work, he has a reason he does it. The best reason for spending resources convincing mankind ufos exist, is to fool them into believing there is no God.

I don't see your rationale that they will try to fool people there is no God - since the Antichrist himself will claim to be God, in the flesh. More likely, they may try to discredit God of the bible and invert who is the good guy and who is the villian

You need to rework your end times scenario, starting from the Antichrist will be the King of Israel mashiach. How that is going to happen, and then go sour.

The Antichrist has to be deeply into the occult early on according to what it says in Daniel 8, but what path that is - the bible doesn't elaborate, except to imply that he gets power from the dark side which would be the kingdom of mystery Babylon the great, the code name for Satan's principality - although the Antichrist may not initially think that is who he is in contact with. There is an branch of Kaballah whereby the practitioners attempt to have angels carry out their will, in essence to work for the practitioner.

 

[Jipsah]

I'm curious how you view astronauts who report they have seen ufos

By knowing what UFOs are: UNIDENTIFIED flying objects. Not flying saucers, not alien spacecraft, not demons, just stuff that hasn't been identified. Assuming that if you can't tell what it is then it must be either a space goomer or a demon is the worst kind of superstitious nonsense. Kinda like passing someone on the street and if you can't tell who they are you therefore assume it must have been Satan.

, like Borman, Buzz Aldrin, Neil Armstrong etc. I think there's a dozen or so claiming this.

You'll note that they did NOT report that they saw flying saucers, aliens, demons, or any such thing. They saw objects that they couldn't identify. Superstition "identifies" then as alien or demonic, the astronauts did no such silly thing.

Nuts, or deceived?

No, they were simply using the term unidentified to mean (ready for this?) unidentified. Imagine that!

 

[Jipsah]

Scripture reveals Satan is a rational creature, he does things for a reason.

Therefore, as UFOs are his work

Yeah, if you see a B2 flying in the distance and you can't tell what it is, then it's the Work of Satan.

Right.

 

[Douggg]

By knowing what UFOs are: UNIDENTIFIED flying objects. Not flying saucers, not alien spacecraft, not demons, just stuff that hasn't been identified.

Technically yes, but within the scope of the discussion, ufo's are something other that human made craft, by beings from somewhere other than earth. That's what's being presumed in the discussion, as being craft built built by Satan's rebellious angels.

I don't think it could be nephilim though, because of their being the unclean spirits who are seeking bodies to inhabit.

 

[Jipsah]

within the scope of the discussion, ufo's are something other that human made craft, by beings from somewhere other than earth. That's what's being presumed in the discussion, as being craft built built by Satan's rebellious angels.

Yeah, and that's the presumption that is based on pure superstition, since, as I've noted a great mamy times, there's not the least particle of evidence that there are any craft built by either aliens or demons flying around. The idea is purely a flight of fancy, fueled by superstition, and has no bearing on any Christian belief at all.

I don't think it could be nephilim though, because of their being the unclean spirits who are seeking bodies to inhabit.

I don't think flying saucers are relevant to the discussion, or anything else, in any case.

 

[Douggg]

Yeah, and that's the presumption that is based on pure superstition, since, as I've noted a great mamy times, there's not the least particle of evidence that there are any craft built by either aliens or demons flying around. The idea is purely a flight of fancy, fueled by superstition, and has no bearing on any Christian belief at all.

I don't think flying saucers are relevant to the discussion, or anything else, in any case.

I wouldn't call it superstition, as fear of the unknown is the basis of superstition. I would say that there is some evidence of craft not from this world because of the nature of the observances.

 

[mark kennedy]

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, (2Th 2:11 NKJ)

I think it's simply this, the Antichrist (actually the Beast from the Sea), convinces the children of perdition that they can win:

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. (Psalm 2:1-3)​

They are cowering in the caves beneath rocks and cliffs at the end of the breaking of the 6th seal after God's judgements are poured out the first time. By the end of the pouring of the last vial the Beast and his armies have survived the entire battery of judgments and wrath leveled against them and they are still standing.

This is the part they don't understand because they are under the influence of that delusion, it's over very quickly. Their leaders, the Beast from the Sea and the Beast from the Land are given the horrifying distinction of being the first cast into the lake of fire bodily.

God doesn't inflict them with this delusion, that's not how it works. The worst kind of judgment God can bring on you is to turn you over to your own sin and he will when he has finally had enough. I think the Devil is a hopeless optimist, for all of eternity he will be burning in the lake of fire thinking, 'one of these days I'm going to get out of here and when I do...'

The part that makes it so hard to comprehend is that he knows he can't win and yet he believes it and convinces the children of perdition that they can.

That's the 'strong delusion' and be advised, we are all carriers. There is only one way to avoid full blown perdition:

"Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water." (Rev. 14:7)​

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Bible2]

mark kennedy said in post 58:

By the end of the pouring of the last vial the Beast and his armies have survived the entire battery of judgments and wrath leveled against them and they are still standing.

That's right.

The unsaved people of the world will have no idea that most of them are going to be killed at Jesus' 2nd coming until it happens (Matthew 24:37-39). This could be because they will think that the 2nd coming had already occurred with the coming into power of the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20), who could claim to be Jesus returned. And just as the people of the world shortly before Noah's flood, even though they could see or hear about Noah building his huge ark, no doubt rejected the idea that YHWH had the power to actually cause a global flood which would kill them, so the people of the world at the end of the future tribulation could reject the idea that YHWH has the power to actually defeat them.

For during the tribulation's 2nd half, the world will see the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and his fallen angels (Revelation 12:9), and the power Lucifer will give to the Antichrist to take over the entire earth (Revelation 13:4-8), and to utterly revile YHWH year after year without being destroyed (Revelation 13:5-6, Daniel 11:36), and to physically overcome and kill people in the church in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). And the world will see the amazing miraculous powers that Lucifer will give to the Antichrist's False Prophet, by which he will be able to even call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone (Revelation 13:13, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

And near the end of the future tribulation, the world will see the Antichrist's defeat of YHWH's amazingly-powerful two witnesses (Revelation 11:3-9), after which defeat the world will rejoice and make merry and send gifts to each other because the two witnesses had been sending plagues on the world (Revelation 11:10,6). And even though those plagues will be shortly followed by even more plagues from YHWH, poured out directly from heaven (Revelation 16, the tribulation's final stage), the people of the world won't lose their confidence that YHWH can still be defeated. For after almost all of the plagues from heaven are over, the world will see the awesome miraculous powers of some unclean spirits, convincing the world's armies to gather together for a battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:13-14, Revelation 19:19). And so the world could come to that battle at the very end of the tribulation with the same careless attitude as some people at the start of the American Civil War, who held picnics at the expected first battleground of Bull Run/Manassas to watch the battle and what they expected to be a quick and easy victory.

 

[shturt678s]

The best commentary on IIThess.2:11 is Rev.8:7-9:21. This event has been ongoing since 70 A.D. (Lk.21:24; Rev.11:2) and will continue till the end of time at the "1" Parousia. :o btw we are at the very end of IIThess.2:10-12 at Rev.9:1-21, ie, higher level demons from hell cast upon those that lack an agape of the Truth distressing the Kingdom of God, this moment even.

Old Jack holding a lead shield over his head, ie, hate those demons from hell.