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Well, what God commands is one of the things we don't yet agree on. But we're already talking about that another threadsEspecially when God commands it.
You're point is? You said there is nothing wrong with having a quiet day. So why does it seem to me that you do if God commands it?Well, what God commands is one of the things we don't yet agree on. But we're already talking about that another threads
A random proverb
Bible Gateway passage: Proverbs 13:2 - New Century Version
People will be rewarded for what they say, but those who can’t be trusted want only violence.www.biblegateway.com
I don't know why it would seem that way to youYou're point is? You said there is nothing wrong with having a quiet day. So why does it seem to me that you do if God commands it?
Well I see a ton of differences in our points of view. The Israelites were instructed to love God with all their might, meaning everything within them. How is that different from us?I don't know why it would seem that way to you
My point is - and this is how I look at it - under the Old Covenant, the Israelites were somewhat separated from God. God was in his holy tent or later Temple, the people were outside. By taking special precautions, they could get closer. By following the law of Moses more closely, they could be more separate from the other nations... More holy.
The Israelites were to devote one day a week to God, and 10% of their animals and grain.
In the New Covenant, the Holy Spirit is inside of us, instead of just inside the holy of holies. Everything we do is to be done in the name of the Lord, thus holy.
Bible Gateway passage: Colossians 3:17 - New American Standard Bible
Whatever you do in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.www.biblegateway.com
And we don't just owe God 10%, it's everything.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 - New American Standard Bible
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought for a price: therefore glorify God in your body.www.biblegateway.com
The above passage also creates an interesting situation if we want to carefully follow the Sabbath commandment. We are not our own, we don't belong to ourselves. So there is no "your work" to do for 6 days.
It's different for us because the Holy Spirit is in us. Before Jesus sent the Holy Spirit, the Spirit was among the disciples, but he was going to be in them.Well I see a ton of differences in our points of view. The Israelites were instructed to love God with all their might, meaning everything within them. How is that different from us?
The Israelites were not separated from God any more than we are. The sacrificial system actually required more faith then we need as they had to look forward to a coming event. We look back at that event. It takes a lot less faith to look back at an accomplished event than it does to anticipate something you must see in your imagination.
I think there are degrees of holiness. For example, there was the holy of holies, or most holy place.Lastly, no one can be partly holy. It's like being pregnant. A person either is or isn't.
It's different for us because the Holy Spirit is in us. Before Jesus sent the Holy Spirit, the Spirit was among the disciples, but he was going to be in them.
Bible Gateway passage: John 14:17 - New American Standard Bible
the Helper is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him; but you know Him because He remains with you and will be in you.www.biblegateway.com
I think there are degrees of holiness. For example, there was the holy of holies, or most holy place.
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Right, don't take the holy spirit away from David. But I don't think it says the holy spirit is in David. Or at least not in the sense that Jesus was talking about in John.This is another misconception not sustained by scripture.
You're referring to a place not a person when you refer to the sanctuary. We are either holy because the HS dwells within us or sinners when He doesn't.
So? Look at all the scripture David wrote and God called him a man after His own heart. David was inspired by the HS or his writings would not be in the Bible. David was just as much a prophet as Isaiah or Jeremiah.Right, don't take the holy spirit away from David. But I don't think it says the holy spirit is in David. Or at least not in the sense that Jesus was talking about in John.
We also have this:
Bible Gateway passage: John 1:33 - New International Reader's Version
I myself did not know him. But the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘You will see the Spirit come down and remain on someone. He is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’www.biblegateway.com
Note that again we have the Holy Spirit remaining. And the baptizing in the Holy Spirit, something John couldn't do.
David had an amazing relationship with God, but something changes with Jesus.So? Look at all the scripture David wrote and God called him a man after His own heart. David was inspired by the HS or his writings would not be in the Bible. David was just as much a prophet as Isaiah or Jeremiah.
I don't see that in scripture. We are told to love God. David loved God and obeyed Him because he loved Him. I do the same.David had an amazing relationship with God, but something changes with Jesus.
Bible Gateway passage: John 7:39 - New International Reader's Version
When he said this, he meant the Holy Spirit. Those who believed in Jesus would receive the Spirit later. Up to that time, the Spirit had not been given. This was because Jesus had not yet received glory.www.biblegateway.com
3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. Gal3
this interpretation is typical, evangelical garbage, it is lazy it is selfish and it is disobediant. you are taking a topic addressed to one group and applying it to another group because of a similarity. they are not the same group. They are not SDA's and they are not addressing the issues SDA's are bring up. The SDA is saying that there is a misrepresentation of God Going on at the end of days, that makes it necessary to go back and resurrection these issues, in order to represent God properly and protect God's people, that is very different then what Galatains is addressing. Galatians is addressing reconcilation, Sabbath is not for reconcilation. In fact why would you care about the Sabbath unless you were reconciled. I know I did not, it was only after being reconciled that i cared.The Judaizers had convinced the Galatians that they had to keep the old covenant laws. SDAs are doing the same thing with their Sabbath keeping and tithing.
I am not an SDA so this does not apply. I am and SEA. but for the sake of those reading I will address.But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}
once again you have not drawn the right conclusion. we are not saying we are under the Old Covenant. you say we are under the Old covenant. We are under Christ. And he said He was Lord of the Sabbath. Now STOP. How do you explain that. We are say we acknowledge his Lordship by observing the Sabbath. That is not the Same as saying we earn salvation. We acknowledge Jesus Lordship as Creator, His Lordship in Salvation, His Lordship in Santifaction, His Lordship in Israel, His Lordship in History/Prophecy and His Lord ship in setting and appointment and you come along and say that we are trying earn salvation. what NONSENSE.No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}
All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}
As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}
We should regularly reserve something for God's cause, that He may not be robbed of the portion which He claims. When we rob God we rob ourselves also. We give up the heavenly treasure for the sake of having more of this earth. This is a loss that we cannot afford to sustain. (5T 271.3)
Talk about nonsense, there is absolutely nothing to back up your supposition. Paul continuedly wrote that we are not under the law. How is it you read the New Testament and do not comprehend what it is all about?
like a good evangelical you've take it out of Context, the "New" in location, on the heart with individuals.Jeremiah didn't prophesy a warmed over old covenant1, he prophesied a New one not like the one He gave Israel. By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. heb8:13
19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. 1jn3
it is assumed in the commandments. if you love me keep my commandments. now what is unclear about that. Ok here is a command "don't lord power over people," Ok, "Look out for the Well being of other" I'm Lord of the Sabbath," "Remember the Sabbath" "Remember Me" what is the problem here. Why do you need a direct command repeated. you logic is trying to get out of obeying. If you love me keep my commandments" OKIf not keeping the old covenant Sabbath given only to the Israelite nation causes us to be eternally lost why isn't this ever mentioned.
Jesus said in Jn15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. Notice Jesus told us He kept the Torah, His Father's commands, and asks us to keep His commands. Love is the great command. We are to love others as Jesus loves us. Exactly what John wrote in 1Jn3. Also, 1Jn3 repeats the very same thing. Again, if the Sabbath is so important to keep that we will lose our eternal inheritance, why is it not mentioned to all of the Gentile World??? In place of telling me all
That is not what the SDA churches teach. the quote was not addressed to you or about you. Stop taking personally what is not addressed to specifically. as far as things not being spelled out, that in not a matter of facts it is a matter of interpretation. the facts are pretty clear the early Christians were going to the Synagogue on the Sabbath for over 300 years. if you deny that then there is no talking to you. What that means is in question, that it happened is not.I write is nonsense show me where I am wrong. According to you SDAs I am going to hell for something that is not spelled out in scripture.
I admonish you to go back learn what other teach and stop bearing false wittness, We do not keep the Sabbath out of the old covenant, this is what i am talking about. you do not have a proper grasp of what our beliefs our. We observe Sabbath out of Creation. The Creator has come under attack, They say He is a myth, they say his promise is a myth and they say his salvation is a myth. when you understand that and start in the right place then get back to me. I won't waste my time on someone like you, who does not even try.I admonish you to read Gal 5 and then tell me they went to the synagogue to learn how to keep Torah. Ask yourself why you do not keep all the laws of the old covenant that would pertain to you.
again amazing you you pit the rest of Christ and the rest of the sabbath against one another. it is like arguing weather a coin has head or tails, it is both, nonsense.Right. it does not invalidate Sabbath and neither does it validate it. It tells us we can find rest today. Jesus said some profound words that I believe indicates what that rest really is.
Matthew 11:28
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
again you are arguing a straw man, you are arguing Judahism. we are not Jews. you are just a bad interpretation. so your argumentsIt never fails when debating with SDAs, they will come up with the inanest interpretations to avoid what scripture is really telling us. You are not an exception. If it does not invalidate Sabbath observance it also would not invalidate new moon cerebrations and the feast days all of which you fail to observe.
I told you exactly what i ment in the post, you are ignoring it. You say the 10c are done away with, now we have the Holy Spirit. Again it is the Head or Tails argument. it is both the Holy Spirits writes the Law in your heart. It does not do away with them.What do you mean by "not relevant"? Those verses tell the Jews they were no longer under the guidance of the 10 commandments. gentiles never were under them. According to you we are under them, so show us where, from scripture.
you prove they did not. I don't have to prove that they did it is assumed, because book is about orign. where did we come from and how did we get here.Prove that the commands, statutes and judgements contained the Sabbath command.
Again bad argument. The Sabbath can take on additional meanins and usages. The fact that Abraham was not a slave is not relevant to it's existance and observance. It is now being elevated to the sign of the Covenant with Israel and since we are grafted in to Isreal. In Babylon it became the sign of Loyality. so it can have different usages. Again we observe it out of creation. I observe it out of the promise of Christ ruling on the earth for 1000 years. SDA do not do this.Abraham was not a slave in Egypt. Duet 5: 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.
Okay, if it is so easy why didn't you provide a valid example? Seems like all blow and no go.
There's a huge change in our relationship to God before and after Jesus is glorified. One of the purposes of the Sabbath is to teach us about thatI don't see that in scripture. We are told to love God. David loved God and obeyed Him because he loved Him. I do the same.
No it isn’t. Because of Christ we can keep the sabbath wholly and holy. Before Christ most could not due to being defiled by sin. A unholy being can not keep a day holy let alone the sabbath holy. All they can do is rest physically. And their presence defiles the day that God sanctified in a sense. Not that they take away the sanctification of the day. For it is set apart for a special purpose. It is our responsibility through Christ to use it in the manner God intended.One of the purposes of the Sabbath is to teach us about that
There's a huge change in our relationship to God before and after Jesus is glorified. One of the purposes of the Sabbath is to teach us about that
Bible Gateway passage: John 7:39 - New International Reader's Version
When he said this, he meant the Holy Spirit. Those who believed in Jesus would receive the Spirit later. Up to that time, the Spirit had not been given. This was because Jesus had not yet received glory.www.biblegateway.com
Ok. You believe, unlike David, that it is loving God to not do what God tells you to do. That's your choice, but I'll stick to agreeing with David.
Is it possible for a Christian to become unclean by touching, say, unclean things?No it isn’t. Because of Christ we can keep the sabbath wholly and holy. Before Christ most could not due to being defiled by sin. A unholy being can not keep a day holy let alone the sabbath holy. All they can do is rest physically. And their presence defiles the day that God sanctified in a sense. Not that they take away the sanctification of the day. For it is set apart for a special purpose. It is our responsibility through Christ to use it in the manner God intended.
Sigh. But that is the basis of what you said as you believe that love fulfills the 10 commandments. So I ask, is it love to not do what God tells us to do as you just said that we want to follow what David said? I'm baffled by such a dichotomy of thought. I like you but I'm baffled.@Gary K said,
"Ok. You believe, unlike David, that it is loving God to not do what God tells you to do. That's your choice, but I'll stick to agreeing with David."
No, that's not what I said.
We want to follow all of what God said, David, Jesus, the Apostles...
Tell you what, Gary my man, we seem to be talking about the same or similar things on several different threads. Let's consolidate them all over here:Sigh. But that is the basis of what you said as you believe that love fulfills the 10 commandments. So I ask, is it love to not do what God tells us to do as you just said that we want to follow what David said? I'm baffled by such a dichotomy of thought. I like you but I'm baffled.
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