What is the point of praying?

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

I happen to believe that, when you learn how to pray, you get everything you ask for. The disciples asked Jesus to teach them how to pray. The "Lords Prayer" should be understood, not just repeated.....

Greatest Treasure Obtained

It is not the ideal we would wish for, but it is a fact:
all human beings are selfish, even religious folk.
We are held captive by our self-centered desires.

God of course knows this and (through the Bible) tells us
us to seek His face, His wisdom, and the things of heaven.

The foolish, selfish person prays for money and power
and fame, pleasures of the flesh and earthly things;
but the wise person prays for God to change his heart—
so that what he wants is in line with God’s will—what God wants.

If the person means it and surrenders totally to God’s will,
then it is certain that God will give him everything he desires.

“Delight yourself in the LORD, and He shall give you the desires of your heart.” (Psalms 37:4)

"I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord…." (Philippians 3:8)

And finally, note this beautiful verse from the old celtic hymn, "Be Thou My Vision":
“Riches I need not, nor man’s empty praise,
Thou, my inheritance now and always.
Thou and Thou only be first in my heart,
High King of Heaven, my treasure, Thou art!”

 

[FireDragon76]

Prayer is a relationship, not magic like a genie. That means sometimes God is going to say "no", or "not now" to our requests.

 

[mikeirvan]

I am questioning the point to prayer. What is the point to praying for something if it never produces the desired result? Everything I have prayed for for about the last 3 years or so has not happened, or worse the things I have prayed to not happen have happened with more intensity and longer duration. So if it isn't producing the desired result, what is the point?

Prayers are answered, but not always how we like them to be. Things happen in God's time and how He feels is best. There have been prayers I have had for 5 years and still not answered that I feel, but perhaps He has and just not how I quite expected them to be so feel they aren't answered.

 

[Knollds]

Actually, it goes even farther than youre saying. The uselessness of prayer is a matter of simple logic. God is omnicient. I feel that is well supported biblically. That means he knows what you will pray for anyway. On the same point, it means he knows what the answer would be. So, either God ALREADY intends to do what you're asking of him, or he ALREADY won't. Your prayer is not accomplishing anything even if it's a yes. God already was going to do that anyway. Thoughts?

I am questioning the point to prayer. What is the point to praying for something if it never produces the desired result? Everything I have prayed for for about the last 3 years or so has not happened, or worse the things I have prayed to not happen have happened with more intensity and longer duration. So if it isn't producing the desired result, what is the point?

 

[RaymondG]

Greatest Treasure Obtained

It is not the ideal we would wish for, but it is a fact:
all human beings are selfish, even religious folk.
We are held captive by our self-centered desires.

God of course knows this and (through the Bible) tells us
us to seek His face, His wisdom, and the things of heaven.

The foolish, selfish person prays for money and power
and fame, pleasures of the flesh and earthly things;
but the wise person prays for God to change his heart—
so that what he wants is in line with God’s will—what God wants.

If the person means it and surrenders totally to God’s will,
then it is certain that God will give him everything he desires.

“Delight yourself in the LORD, and He shall give you the desires of your heart.” (Psalms 37:4)

"I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord…." (Philippians 3:8)

And finally, note this beautiful verse from the old celtic hymn, "Be Thou My Vision":
“Riches I need not, nor man’s empty praise,
Thou, my inheritance now and always.
Thou and Thou only be first in my heart,
High King of Heaven, my treasure, Thou art!”

You are right humans are selfish.....ask most people if they would trade their soul so that someone else can be saved and they will say no. Most would boost that they will not let anyone take their place in heaven or if there was only one spot it will be theirs by any means necessary. Some of the most selfish self centered statements I've ever heard, yet it gets much praise among the religious.

I choose not to judge the motives or requests of the praying person. We can call their requests foolish or wise doesn't matter to me. I know, that whatsoever you ask for, you will receive....be it money, or eternal life.

But I agree it profit a man nothing to gain the world and lose his soul, but I kept my comments limited to answering the OP. No need to warn about gaining the world if it were not possible, and no needed for your warnings about what to ask God for if you believe He only hears certain types of prayers. Just teach how to get the prayer answered.

 

[CrystalDragon]

James says this about unanswered prayer; You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

Are you praying that your character would reflect Jesus that your love for others would grow and you would mature in the Lord and be useful for the kingdom of God? Or are you praying for temporal things like a good job and a hot girlfriend. jesus talks about he who loses His life for Christ's sake is the one who finds it and he who keeps this life is going to lose it. Here are a couple prayers Paul offers for the believers in the book of ephesians. if you pray like this for yourself and others there will be an amazing transformation. Eph 3: 14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,[fn] 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

If you start praying like this and grow in your love , devotion and understanding of God you will find the center of God's will for your life. He will take your temporal understanding of how to spend your life and pour over the purpose God has for you. You are given a circle of family friends and aquaintences to have a sphere of influence over. In this realm God want s you to glorify his name and proclaim his salvation and this attitude will effect all the other areas of your life.

One other observation is its seems that your definition of prayer is asking God for things. That is one aspect of prayer. But how about prayers of thanksgiving or prayers of worship. The Lord has given us eternal life and forgiveness of sins and when we reflect on that an overflowing heart of gratitude and praise will pour out. Look here in heaven Rev 5 john records that a seal scroll was presented and no one was found worthy to open it in heaven or earth and john wept much. The angel then tells John not to weep for the Lion of the Tribe of Judah has prevailed to take the scroll and open its seals.
Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us[fn] kings[fn] and priests to our God;
And we[fn] shall reign on the earth.”

Do you see in heaven the significance of Jesus victory over sin and death. The destiny of the saved is to rule and reign with Jesus in the kingdom age. Get an eternal perspective and pray accordingly.

How can it be "spending it on pleasures" if all you're praying for is for a family member to be cured?

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Prayer is a relationship, not magic like a genie. That means sometimes God is going to say "no", or "not now" to our requests.

Exactly right. Best short answer.

 

[RaymondG]

Exactly right. Best short answer.

Why isnt Jesus' own words short enough or good enough for you?:

Matt 21:22
"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive."

It's ok to believe in only "some things." But why teach that to others?

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Why isnt Jesus' own words short enough or good enough for you?:

Matt 21:22
"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive."

It's ok to believe in only "some things." But why teach that to others?

RaymondG,
Jesus' words ARE good enough for me, and you were just repeating them in slightly different words, and I agreed ... because Jesus is always right. Why are you questioning me as if His words were not good enough for me? Did I indicate otherwise? Your quick retort and assuming ... says more about you than about me.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Actually, it goes even farther than youre saying. The uselessness of prayer is a matter of simple logic. God is omnicient. I feel that is well supported biblically. That means he knows what you will pray for anyway. On the same point, it means he knows what the answer would be. So, either God ALREADY intends to do what you're asking of him, or he ALREADY won't. Your prayer is not accomplishing anything even if it's a yes. God already was going to do that anyway. Thoughts?

The scriptures are clear that God wants us to pray. Why? The real purpose is to develop a relationship with Him. He also wants us to participate with Him in changing the world and bringing in His Kingdom. Who knows how many things God chooses not to do simply because no one prays? So we should always pray ... without ceasing.

 

[RaymondG]

RaymondG,
Jesus' words ARE good enough for me, and you were just repeating them in slightly different words, and I agreed ... because Jesus is always right. Why are you questioning me as if His words were not good enough for me? Did I indicate otherwise? Your quick retort and assuming ... says more about you than about me.

Ok, so you agree that God will give you anything you ask for.....you were just advising on the things that should be asked and sought after? I thought since you agreed with the "God is not a Genie" comment that you felt he would not give anything asked. I do agree, as well, that He should not be used that way.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Ok, so you agree that God will give you anything you ask for.....you were just advising on the things that should be asked and sought after? I thought since you agreed with the "God is not a Genie" comment that you felt he would not give anything asked. I do agree, as well, that He should not be used that way.

Perhaps our disagreement is greater than I thought. I believe that God either gives us what we ask for ... or something better. Sometimes the 'something better' is a "No" to what we are asking for because God knows what we really need (and often we do not). God will generally not give us what we ask for if it will harm us. God does say "No" or "Wait" sometimes. The Father even said "No" to Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, when Jesus asked that the cup of suffering be taken from him. But as we must always do as well, we must defer to God's greater wisdom and say "Thy will and not mine be done." (Luke 22:42)

 

[RaymondG]

Perhaps our disagreement is greater than I thought. I believe that God either gives us what we ask for ... or something better. Sometimes the 'something better' is a "No" to what we are asking for because God knows what we really need (and often we do not). God will generally not give us what we ask for if it will harm us. God does say "No" or "Wait" sometimes. The Father even said "No" to Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, when Jesus asked that the cup of suffering be taken from him. But as we must always do as well, we must defer to God's greater wisdom and say "Thy will and not mine be done." (Luke 22:42)

I dont disagree, attack, or feel attacked...The man that did, dies daily. All opinions are welcomed and respected. I happen to believe we are both right. We can only speak from experience. I happen to believe, from experience, that God will give you exactly what you ask for whether it is good for you or not, and you have to deal with the consequences later...Which is why it is important to understand the commandments (not only naturally) and abide by them. Your way is safer for most with one caveat.....We do pray all the time....just not knowingly....This is part of the knowledge, whose lack of, will cause one to perish....

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

How can it be "spending it on pleasures" if all you're praying for is for a family member to be cured?

We ARE to pray for people to be cured. But you do realize that all of us are going to die someday? No one lives in this body forever. God has His own timetable, which is perfect. Sometimes He will not act unless we pray. But sometimes He says "No" for reasons only He can know. We are to trust His judgment in all things. But keep praying.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

I dont disagree, attack, or feel attacked...The man that did, dies daily. All opinions are welcomed and respected. I happen to believe we are both right. We can only speak from experience. I happen to believe, from experience, that God will give you exactly what you ask for whether it is good for you or not, and you have to deal with the consequences later...Which is why it is important to understand the commandments (not only naturally) and abide by them. Your way is safer for most with one caveat.....We do pray all the time....just not knowingly....This is part of the knowledge, whose lack of, will cause one to perish....

God certainly knows what we want, whether we pray or not. I do not believe in the power of unconscious prayer because God wants us to deliberately and consciously interact with Him. No answer to prayer is more important than the primary reason for prayer: developing an intimate relationship with the Lord.

 

[RaymondG]

God certainly knows what we want, whether we pray or not. I do not believe in the power of unconscious prayer because God wants us to deliberately and consciously interact with Him. No answer to prayer is more important than the primary reason for prayer: developing an intimate relationship with the Lord.

I could prove it to you.....But I dont want to be responsible for you throwing a mountain into the mist of the sea, (to the demise of millions), in your attempts to prove me wrong.

Was nice reasoning together...Enjoy your journey to Heaven.

 

[frienden thalord]

Ask whatever you desire, in my name, and it will be given you" says that the Lord is concerned about a great deal more than "his mission........
THAT YE MAY BEAR FRUIT..........................its all about THE MISSION
prosperity gospel preachers keep twisting everything.....
GODLINESS with CONTENTMENT IS GREAT GAIN........
I have learned to be CONTENT in all things.........
I seem to remember paul, when he asked to church to give to Him
IT was a cloke or parchments........you know so he would not FREEZE to death in prison
which he was IN , I might add....because he wasn't like most these false men
of belial who preach that false money loving gospel
NO he was in prison........because OF HIS MISSION. the MISSSION
the DIRE NEED to reach souls
PAUL and the true men , preached the TRUE prosperity gospel
the gospel which tells of the true riches and treasures
YOU KNOW JESUS
he wasn't asking for money so he could build his OWN empire up
HE asked money also for the POOR starving saints......
The prosperity gospel of man is DEATH
the PROSPERITY GOSPLE OF GOD................IS JESUS CHRIST.........

 

[JoeP222w]

I am questioning the point to prayer. What is the point to praying for something if it never produces the desired result? Everything I have prayed for for about the last 3 years or so has not happened, or worse the things I have prayed to not happen have happened with more intensity and longer duration. So if it isn't producing the desired result, what is the point?

Prayer is to draw us closer in relationship to God. Payer does not change God, prayer changes the believer in God. God is not some cosmic genie granting wishes. God is not obligated to man in any way.

 

[frienden thalord]

Greatest Treasure Obtained

It is not the ideal we would wish for, but it is a fact:
all human beings are selfish, even religious folk.
We are held captive by our self-centered desires.

God of course knows this and (through the Bible) tells us
us to seek His face, His wisdom, and the things of heaven.

The foolish, selfish person prays for money and power
and fame, pleasures of the flesh and earthly things;
but the wise person prays for God to change his heart—
so that what he wants is in line with God’s will—what God wants.

If the person means it and surrenders totally to God’s will,
then it is certain that God will give him everything he desires.

“Delight yourself in the LORD, and He shall give you the desires of your heart.” (Psalms 37:4)

"I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord…." (Philippians 3:8)

And finally, note this beautiful verse from the old celtic hymn, "Be Thou My Vision":
“Riches I need not, nor man’s empty praise,
Thou, my inheritance now and always.
Thou and Thou only be first in my heart,
High King of Heaven, my treasure, Thou art!”

That is absolutely wonderful good advice.....
I have no need to even add to it........................

 

[michael10sley]

Prayer is a conversation with God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit and it doesn't matter which you pray to because they share everything in their dance of love and grace. I pray to God, my Father as I'm sure most people do but you can pray to any one of our Triune God.

I want to emphasize this because many people have it wrong. God is not like a mean-spirited courtroom judge will gavel raised ready to pass judgement on you for the least little indiscretion. Our Father
loves us and wants us to have life abundant and joyful! John 10:10, ' "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly."

In John 15:11 is this, 'These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full."

And the way to have those, along with peace beyond understanding, ' And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.' Philippians 4:7
is to abide in Jesus and He in you, John 15:5, "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing."

If you have a spiritual, physical, or emotional need the Father will listen and provide for your needs. On the other hand, if He does nothing there is meaning in that too. He may be preparing you for something to come and is trying to teach you perseverance until His will is revealed.

Paul wrote this in 2 Corinthians 1:8-9, ''We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about the troubles we experienced in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired of life itself. Indeed, we felt we had received the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead."

If your prayers aren't 'working' the way you want them to perhaps you are trusting in your own abilities and our Father is trying to tell you that approach won't work because you've separated yourself from trusting and abiding in Jesus.

Just as He won't answer prayers to help you love Him more because He wants you to learn from and follow your indwelling Holy Spirit's leadership, and just to 'rest' in Jesus.

We are taught from childhood to 'do', from chores, to education, to getting a good job. The list goes on but that isn't the way authentic Christianity works. Our Father wants us to abide (rest) in Jesus as He lives His life through us. When we do that we begin to understand how much He truly loves us and we
are then able to love Him in return.

Jesus isn't just the way, the truth, and the life, John 14:6, He _is our life!