What is the point of praying?

[RDKirk]

How can it be "spending it on pleasures" if all you're praying for is for a family member to be cured?

...To live is Christ and to die is gain.

Does she need to be cured or does she need to be saved?

And if she is already saved, does Christ need for her to live to accomplish His mission, or would He be just as happy to have her with Him in Heaven?

So aren't you really praying for what will make you feel better?

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, I am here. As far as "getting no answer", read the OP. I am getting answered with "No". The problem is not in not getting an answer, but in the continual denial. If you keep asking and always are denied, after a while you don't see the point to asking any more. That is where I am.

If you're getting a firm denial, then stop asking for that thing and learn what you need to ask for.

 

[RDKirk]

You're perhaps missing the point. How can God change his mind to not do something? Does he not know everything? If he knew he would change his mind later, is it really changing his mind? He knew from the beginning what he was going to do. So how does your prayer affect change?

To be clear, I'm not saying that you shouldn't pray, but be under no impression that it changes anything.

Prayer can change you.

 

[Knollds]

Prayer can change you.

Yes.

 

[PropheticTimes]

Could it be you are praying and asking for something that God knows is not good for you? Could it be that in the long run He see's this will hurt you more than help you. He see's above and beyond our understanding.

Ex: I prayed for something 11 yrs ago, that at the time I really really really wanted and I pressed in and pressed, He gave it to me. You have to know me personally, I am head strong, determined and will fight to get things (spiritually fight), He knows how head strong I am, so in my case He knows that there are certain things I have to experience for my own good. My daddy use to say "you dont believe poo poo stinks until you stick your nose in it"..... TRUE I don't, his nickname for me was "knothead". My point in telling you this, that I am NOW begging and pleading with Him to take back this "thing" I asked for 11 yrs ago. Be careful what you ask for, grass aint always greener on the other side, sometimes you want green grass, you just need to water the little bit of grass you have and watch it grow greener.

He knows what is best for us and you must trust Him for that. Also He knows the timing of what you are asking for is not "the time", He wont give you what you ask for , if you are not ready. Maybe He's waiting for you to be ready??? Just a few thoughts for you to ponder.

I have found this to be true in my life as well. When I thought God was ignoring my prayers, I see in hindsight that He was protecting me from things I had no way of being aware of, but He did, since He is omniscient. Other times, it wasn't a flat-out "no", but rather a "not yet, there are things that must happen first". I understand now that He is a wonderful and loving Father who knows what is best for me much more than I do. So now, when I pray, I echo Jesus, "But not my will, Father, but Yours be done."

 

[Curtis.Hilliker]

So you're saying your prayer did nothing. What is the reasonable difference between getting the girl your engaged to now, the first time you asked for it as opposed to the 2900th (assuming you prayed about it daily)? What was so special about that time? If your answer is that it's just the time God wanted you to get together, tell me what was the effect of your request?

Are you trying to start an argument? My prayer did nothing??? Why don't you pray to God and ask him that yourself. I dare you to talk like that to me in public.

 

[CrystalDragon]

I have found this to be true in my life as well. When I thought God was ignoring my prayers, I see in hindsight that He was protecting me from things I had no way of being aware of, but He did, since He is omniscient. Other times, it wasn't a flat-out "no", but rather a "not yet, there are things that must happen first". I understand now that He is a wonderful and loving Father who knows what is best for me much more than I do. So now, when I pray, I echo Jesus, "But not my will, Father, but Yours be done."

I wonder though—if God is omniscient, why doesn't he stop at least some bad things from happening that any empathetic human would if we had the power to do so? Why does he seem surprised by some things in the Bible? If he actually has a big grand plan, being all-knowing, then how can we claim to have free will if said "free will", dictated by the neural network of our brains that God gave us, is always in accordance with "God's plan? If things happened contrary to God's plan, then he either doesn't really have a grand plan or he's not all-knowing.

 

[RDKirk]

I wonder though—if God is omniscient, why doesn't he stop at least some bad things from happening that any empathetic human would if we had the power to do so? Why does he seem surprised by some things in the Bible? If he actually has a big grand plan, being all-knowing, then how can we claim to have free will if said "free will", dictated by the neural network of our brains that God gave us, is always in accordance with "God's plan? If things happened contrary to God's plan, then he either doesn't really have a grand plan or he's not all-knowing.

That doesn't sound like a question that needs answering in a "Christian Only" equipping, edification forum. Unless you have an answer to your own question, you're not equipping or edifying, you're tearing down. Is that your intent?

 

[CrystalDragon]

That doesn't sound like a question that needs answering in a "Christian Only" equipping, edification forum. Unless you have an answer to your own question, you're not equipping or edifying, you're tearing down. Is that your intent?

My apologies, I wasn't aware of what forum I was posting in—usually when I click on the New Posts section, I simply click on topics that interest me and sometimes I don't notice what forum its in. My apologies.

One point to make though, the definition of edifying is "providing moral or intellectual instruction". In a way I was providing that because I was saying that the above were immoral things that we should avoid, that not only would any empathetic human avoid, but God/Jesus in the New Testament as well. In that case, I was technically providing instruction that we should avoid those terrible Old Testament things.

 

[PropheticTimes]

I wonder though—if God is omniscient, why doesn't he stop at least some bad things from happening that any empathetic human would if we had the power to do so? Why does he seem surprised by some things in the Bible? If he actually has a big grand plan, being all-knowing, then how can we claim to have free will if said "free will", dictated by the neural network of our brains that God gave us, is always in accordance with "God's plan? If things happened contrary to God's plan, then he either doesn't really have a grand plan or he's not all-knowing.

Who's to say He DOESN'T stop some bad things from happening? I think He stops an awful lot of things, you just aren't aware of it because you are not omniscient.

What was He surprised about in the Bible?

Our free will is in accepting or rejecting Him. The core of His plan cannot be thwarted and He will use those who CHOOSE to accept Him and follow Him to do that work, as He has done since the beginning. People can choose, via their free will, to do things against His plan, and that will be on them on Judgment Day, but nothing and no one can stop His plan, it always has and always will move forward to completion.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Who's to say He DOESN'T stop some bad things from happening? I think He stops an awful lot of things, you just aren't aware of it because you are not omniscient.

In the Old Testament, he used burning bushes, pillars of fire, plagues, bears, etc. to punish those doing wrong. Whenever an assault, torture, or rape happens he doesn't exactly do any of that "strike you down with a bolt of lightning" stuff anymore.

What was He surprised about in the Bible?

Here's some points where he either was surprised or does not seem sure of what will happen in the future:

Jeremiah 26:3, Jeremiah 3:6-7, Jeremiah 3:19-20, Exodus 4:24-26 are some examples.

Our free will is in accepting or rejecting Him. The core of His plan cannot be thwarted and He will use those who CHOOSE to accept Him and follow Him to do that work, as He has done since the beginning. People can choose, via their free will, to do things against His plan, and that will be on them on Judgment Day, but nothing and no one can stop His plan, it always has and always will move forward to completion.

Can we really call it free will, or the illusion of free will? God may have a "grand plan" that humans can't ultimately veer away from, but people say—and the Bible supports—that God is in charge of absolutely everything, including dice roles.

 

[Solomons Porch]

"We" have the power to change things (subdue the earth). "We" failed, not God. "We" choose the things of the flesh and do not follow in His guidance. It is "upon us" to do as He commanded, "We" have not done that. "We" are calling out to other gods and placing idols before Him. Thou shalt have NO OTHER GOD before me. Do not touch the stove, it is still hot, it will burn you...Hmmm (thinking to myself, idk lets touch it and see)..... Wow GOD why did u let me touch a hot stove? It hurts !! Im never trusting you again.

"I will" bless those that bless me, and curse those that curse me. Very simple to comprehend.

 

[PropheticTimes]

In the Old Testament, he used burning bushes, pillars of fire, plagues, bears, etc. to punish those doing wrong. Whenever an assault, torture, or rape happens he doesn't exactly do any of that "strike you down with a bolt of lightning" stuff anymore.

If He struck down anyone who sinned against Him or against us there would be no one alive.

Here's some points where he either was surprised or does not seem sure of what will happen in the future:

Jeremiah 26:3, Jeremiah 3:6-7, Jeremiah 3:19-20, Exodus 4:24-26 are some examples.

These are examples of free will. We CAN change our minds, just like Nineveh did after Jonah preached to them. It wasn't at all that God didn't know what would happen, but instances in which He HOPED man would heed Him and repent, which they were free to do or not to do.

Can we really call it free will, or the illusion of free will? God may have a "grand plan" that humans can't ultimately veer away from, but people say—and the Bible supports—that God is in charge of absolutely everything, including dice roles.

Yes, He is in charge, but He allows us room to grow, to make mistakes, to go our own way. If He were to actually assert His control in every tiny detail of human life, then where is the free will? There would be none. He could go so far as to poke His head out of the clouds and give not one human any iota of doubt of His existence so that all would have to obey. But who wants to be loved by force? I certainly don't, and neither does He.

 

[PropheticTimes]

Do not touch the stove, it is still hot, it will burn you...Hmmm (thinking to myself, idk lets touch it and see)..... Wow GOD why did u let me touch a hot stove? It hurts !! Im never trusting you again.

Perfect! I've done that repeatedly (go my own way then yell at Him when it goes wrong).

 

[frienden thalord]

Quench NOT the SPIRIT......
I know this seems like its way OFF the topic..........but its at the CORE of it all.
This might make us all THINK and ponder..
What does quench mean........TO PUT OUT.....
OH, this can HAPPEN it does all the time..........
SO that could read........PUT NOT OUT the SPIRIT
or as pual once said...........be looking diligently, lest any FAIL of the grace o GOD
GOD is a rewarder of those WHO SEEK HIM DILIGENTLY...not earthen things
HIM................this is very core , its at the heart of where this brother has erred....
and its up t o us who love him, to restore such a one .

 

[PropheticTimes]

or as pual once said

thank you, I very much need that giggle today, and from now on Paul will be Pual and I will smile each time I read/say it....I know it was unintentional on your part but it brightened my day.

 

[frienden thalord]

Sounds like an excellent bible study. Perhaps you might consider doing a word search using the words "Gods will". I use to do a lot of word searches in the bible. They can be very helpful.

Although i dont think commentaries are perfect, they can be useful. Interlinear software can be useful as well. Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

I have to agree on the part which says...perhaps we should have a BIBLE study
but their is no need for big words
What is GODS WILL..........................
THAT we BELEIVE and FOLLOW the SON.
JESUS sayings.....SHOWS US GODS WILL FOR OUR LIFE.........
its that SIMPLE......

 

[frienden thalord]

PONDER how simple that is..man has complicated everything and made a walk
that sould have been so simple in CHRIST into a mass of confusion.
WHAAT does GOD desire above all things that we do
above sacrifice...............THAT WE OBEY HIM
JESUS sayings.........LIVED out by the POWER of HIS HOLY SPIRIT
IS GODS DESIRE FOR OUR LIFE
to worship HIM in SPIRIT and IN TRUTH.............JESUS IS THE TRUTH
HIS SPIRIT is the TRUTH and HIS SAYINGS are the fulfilled law ON OUR HEARTS.
this is GODS desire.......that NONE perisih.........but that all would COME to the SON.
and if we are OF CHRIST........the FRUIT is evident..........
GODS WILLL................is that we COME TO THE SON and FOLLOW HIM
and HIS SAYINGS..................TEACHES US HOW GOD DESIRES US T OWALK.......
and its just that simple

 

[W2L]

I have to agree on the part which says...perhaps we should have a BIBLE study
but their is no need for big words
What is GODS WILL..........................
THAT we BELEIVE and FOLLOW the SON.
JESUS sayings.....SHOWS US GODS WILL FOR OUR LIFE.........
its that SIMPLE......

I agree.

 

[W2L]

and its just that simple

I like simplicity.