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What is the point of praying?
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From the end of the earlier post by Charles Templeton:
"Our real prayers are not what we say while on our knees --- the facile words whispered during a prayer. They are the aspirations, attitudes, and desires that motivate our daily lives. It is easy to prime the pump and have the words gush forth in a torrent of pious phrases but the proof of what we really want, regardless of what we say we want, is evident in the way we live."
"Our real prayers are not what we say while on our knees --- the facile words whispered during a prayer. They are the aspirations, attitudes, and desires that motivate our daily lives. It is easy to prime the pump and have the words gush forth in a torrent of pious phrases but the proof of what we really want, regardless of what we say we want, is evident in the way we live."
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The way I see it, since God already knows what we need before we ask, prayer is about having a communicative relationship with God and about learning to rely on Him and understand that we humans are helpless without Him.
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If a person is Born Again they will pray and talk to God often throughout the day and night.
I ask of God a lot of things
but, try to remember to state --if it be your will God.
I think most important may be prayers of thanks
for I know what this sinner has been saved from -- a very hot place.
Actually, just as Paul thought that he was the chief sinner
I believe that I hold that position.
Maybe every Christian should think that way?
M-Bob
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JESUS=G.O.A.T
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If God hasn't given you a single thing you have asked for in 3 years I would examine yourself. God answers prayers... the prayers of a righteous man availeth much...but are you righteous? Also prayer is communication with God... that's why it matters and that's why there is a point in doing it and lastly God owes you or me nothing, even if he never answered a single prayer I ever prayed he didn't owe me that. We can't even repay him of what he's done for us, never ever develop the mentality that God owes you something and prayer is just about getting what you want. Prayer is communication with God, and when done by a saved individual prayer enables them to sort of step into the spiritual world mentally in a sense to war in the spiritual as well.
1. Are you right with God?
2. Are you praying in ammiss or for only things you want?
3. Are you simply praying for materilistic growth/gains etc.
I guess my question is like... what is your status and what have you been praying for.
The bible says he hears the prayers of the righteous but he is far from the wicked. In other words, the wicked tend to pray wrong or in amiss so he may not answer some of their prayers.
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It depends upon what you are praying for. I went through a season where God answered very few of my prayers. However now he seems to answer many of them.
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Humble Servant of Christ
Humble Mustanger
We should prayer that regardless of what life brings us, we act and react as a Christian. We should pray for strength to remain faithful in hard times. Jesus was concerned about our eternity. Hard times come to Christians as can be seen by the earthly fate of the disciples. God is not an ATM where, if we have the right password, we get money. God has an eternal horizon. Heaven is the goal, pray to stay focused on that. You will be surprised how much peace comes when the focus is on our eternity as opposed to our current circumstances. May God bring you the peace of His love and grace!
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PeaceJoyLove
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HIS will is that "ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain"...HE calls us to holiness and that is what we need to be seeking and asking HIM for ABOVE all else. Genuine faith is believing the impossible (walking holy and bearing fruit of the spirit, continuously) is truly possible. How is that possible? By crying out to HIM in prayer to show us how to walk that way and seeking HIS way and walking in it by the power of HIS spirit, not the weakness of our own flesh. Which ever is stronger is how we live...Spirit or flesh? That all comes down to DESIRES of the heart...HIS desire is for us to be HOLY as HE is holy. That should be the strongest and most desperate cry of prayer we have to HIM above all else.
The same spirit that rose Jesus Christ's body from the grave is supposed to be alive in us...and proof of that Truth is by the fruit we bear...and when we (by the power of HIS spirit) come to that place, we KNOW Him and HIS desires become our desires. Our prayer life changes as we grow up into HIM...because HE reveals Himself, more and more...those should be our desires...placed in our heart by HIS spirit coming alive...the desires of the heart...are either spirit or mind of man/flesh.
Seek HIM, study scripture about prayer and ASK Him to reveal the answer as to why...
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SLB
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Without being snarky, if you aren't getting answers, you aren't doing it right. Step 1 be born again. Basic, but some people try to skip this step. Step 2 examine yourself, confess anything that isn't right and make it right. If you harbour sin in your heart, God doesn't hear you, so get rid of it. Step 3 Begin by praying in His will. Before you start to ask God for anything, find out what he thinks about the subject. That means going back to the Word and seeing what it says. Step 4 Pray the Word. The Word is God's Word and He honours His Word.
If you can't find something in the Word that you can pray appropriate to the subject, then you're not praying for something that's in the will of God, so it shouldn't surprise you that He's not answering.
If you have scripture to back up what you are praying for then you just need to knuckle down and keep trusting that God will answer you in due time. I used to have a hard time undoing jar lids until my husband told me that it isn't how much pressure I can bring to bear, I just need to exert pressure and keep it there. Eventually that lid will give. Prayer is like that. Put the pressure on and keep it there. Don't back off. Don't give up. Keep praising God for the answer that has to come. God always honours His word. Agree with it and hold fast.
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The Times
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Many factors come into play during prayer.
For example when one prays from a western context of prayer, it is most certainly to ask God directly for something material and/or spiritual. In the Eastern culture context prayer is through much meditation and supplication and with much heart felt tears.
The difference between the western variant is that it places an emphasis on a sort of a business transaction. From my biblical understanding Jesus asked us to pray and fast, the pertinent fasting side is what most western pundants miss altogether.
The fasting side is the way to God's heart....
Let's understand what Jesus said in Luke versus below.....
33 They said to him, “John’s disciples often fast and pray, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours go on eating and drinking.”
34 Jesus answered, “Can you make the friends of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? 35 But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; in those days they will fast.” (Luke 5:33-34)
So the question of fasting must be from an Old Testament Jewish context of fasting......
So how did the ancient Jews fast?
Let's look at Daniel for example......
3And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: 4And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; 5We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: 6Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. (Daniel 9:3-6)
Notice Daniel brought his prayers, supplications (pleadings), with fasting, alongside the sackcloth and ashes of humiliation before God in a way that tries to reach God's heart through a broken and contrite heart.
The western culture has unwittingly made this into a business transactions that would obligate God in someway to do something that a creature requests, almost like wishing for something that in ones heart believes they should get, because they have compelled God through some sort of business transaction in anticipating some results that are far from a broken and contrite heart that expects nothing but to benefit the spiritual health state of one's being.
Now let's take another look from the New Testament as follows....
Luke 18:9-14New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” (Luke 18:9-14)
We can easily discern that a broken and contrite heart appeals to God's heart. I tell you why?
If I prayed in anticipation of something all my life, not only 3 years as you stated and then I turn around and say......
Did you not think that God knew you would be here with this complaint against him, after all you understand that your complaining about him right?
Since God knows our hearts, you most certainly have been answered by God in the way that your prayers were answered in the opposite and this is proof positive that your expectation of God in this respect was not received favourably like Daniel and the tax collector, and in so doing God still provided you evidence that he heard you loud and clear, but the question that you have now established by opening this thread is.....
Did you sincerely come to God with a broken and contrite heart and were you praying, suplicating and fasting as Jesus instructed his disciples to do after he left them, before going to his Father's house?
You see you have been answered friend even though it has been unfavourable to you, but none the less God is telling you something from this experience, that is you need to come to him as a broken and contrite heart like the tax collector above.
Once again I thank you for your testimony, it further highlights how the living God is present in our lives and ever moulding us into the sons and daughters that he desires.
God bless you and I hope that my response was not taken as a rebuke, but one of a heads up in the way that God has in fact given you an answer and now you know how to proceed.
If you like maybe one day come and visit the Eastern Orthodox Church during the prayer and fasting Easter vigil and be consumed in the liturgy that is a prayer and supplication service on behalf of the congregation to God in the hope that our spirits be lifted up and that we continue to serve him the way he wants us to.
Remember a broken and contrite heart, the Orthodox faith follows the instructions of Jesus and the Jewish apostles.
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frienden thalord
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That is absolutely beautitful wonderful truth......
and it aligns wonderfully with our LORDS prayer.......the part which says
THY will be done..........not MY.......BUT THY WILL BE DONE........
OH , sing with me peoples............for the same SPirit that DID raise JESUS from the grave
OH HOW it teaches us to walk in NEWNESS of LIFE...........not in oldness of death.
BUT LIFE...............
buried with him in death, the flesh crucified.......that those who have awoke of the dead
have the new life , the old man dead.............crucified , that we walk in newness of
the holy righteous life in HIM.........GOD is so merciful
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Darren Court
Active Member
Most Christians to some degree seem to hold the belief that prayer is mainly about getting something from God - a bit like an all year Father Christmas. It’s upon this premise that they base the idea if we can get more people to pray for us, its more likely God will grant our petition and Catholics think we can get an even better chance if Mary and or the saints pray for us! It’s a nice concept but totally wrong. It's like believing a car should work with your TV remote and wondering why it never works (like you think it should)... Look at what the bible tells us…
In summary God knows everything that will be said, thought and done and has a perfect plan based on that knowledge.
Into that context it's nearly impossible that God could even entertain the idea that He should change any even small aspect of His plan because we ask. To make such a change would mean God settling for a second best changed plan with ongoing ramifications and consequences.
In light of this what can we tell God that He doesn’t already know and what could we ask that He wasn’t expecting? … study of the hundreds of bible verses on prayer show that by far the most common type of prayer might be called positional prayer. Positional prayer is where someone outlines the relevant positions of God and himself… e.g. “Our Father who are in heaven…” or “God you are worthy of everything…” or “God you are so great and good…” etc. Why is positional prayer be so important?
If you need biblical basis for this look to Jesus “your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” and “yet not my will but yours”.
Accepting that the purpose of prayer isn't to get what we want or change God, what is the purpose then? Well this is a deep and complex subject with MANY reasons, purposes, etc.
In the context of praying for and with one another for example there are lots of reasons one of which is that we are to come alongside one another. i.e. support, comfort, help, etc. Its not about individuals communicating with God it’s about us communicating with God together united in our feelings, desires, hopes, efforts, etc…
… and for me THE most important facet of prayer is MEANING what you pray. How can we pray for anything if we don’t mean it? More than that I think the bible teaches that prayer is really our spirit speaking to God. In other words we're not really speaking to God if we don't mean it. If we mean it and can do something about our own prayer - we would? In other words if we pray for one we should help one another.
At this point many object to the reality of prayer simply by asking “What’s the point of prayer then?”
Such a response is understandable and perhaps unknowingly admission that they know the truth but don’t like it!
There are many many reasons to pray that are deep and complex (what else would you expect when your communing with an infinite God?). Here’s just a small list..
A small note on the last point. God is often interested in blessing us. However, He will never bless us if that blessing will be taken for granted, misused or worst of all put distance between us and Him. Therefore if prayer adjusts our attitude then it also releases God's blessing and from OUR perspective then prayer has dynamic demonstrable results. The reality is of course that from God's perspective He knew our attitudes would change and that He would bless us. His mind never changed.
- God has a perfect plan from beginning to end. “I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done" (Isaiah 46:9-10)
- God doesn’t change His mind… “I the LORD do not change." Malachi 3:6 "God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind." Number 23:19
- God knows everything “ For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things” 1Jo 3:20 “Before a word is on my tongue you, Lord, know it completely.” Psalm 139:4. “I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee” Job 42:2 “The eyes of the Lord are in every place” Pr 15:3
In summary God knows everything that will be said, thought and done and has a perfect plan based on that knowledge.
Into that context it's nearly impossible that God could even entertain the idea that He should change any even small aspect of His plan because we ask. To make such a change would mean God settling for a second best changed plan with ongoing ramifications and consequences.
In light of this what can we tell God that He doesn’t already know and what could we ask that He wasn’t expecting? … study of the hundreds of bible verses on prayer show that by far the most common type of prayer might be called positional prayer. Positional prayer is where someone outlines the relevant positions of God and himself… e.g. “Our Father who are in heaven…” or “God you are worthy of everything…” or “God you are so great and good…” etc. Why is positional prayer be so important?
If you need biblical basis for this look to Jesus “your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” and “yet not my will but yours”.
Accepting that the purpose of prayer isn't to get what we want or change God, what is the purpose then? Well this is a deep and complex subject with MANY reasons, purposes, etc.
In the context of praying for and with one another for example there are lots of reasons one of which is that we are to come alongside one another. i.e. support, comfort, help, etc. Its not about individuals communicating with God it’s about us communicating with God together united in our feelings, desires, hopes, efforts, etc…
… and for me THE most important facet of prayer is MEANING what you pray. How can we pray for anything if we don’t mean it? More than that I think the bible teaches that prayer is really our spirit speaking to God. In other words we're not really speaking to God if we don't mean it. If we mean it and can do something about our own prayer - we would? In other words if we pray for one we should help one another.
At this point many object to the reality of prayer simply by asking “What’s the point of prayer then?”
Such a response is understandable and perhaps unknowingly admission that they know the truth but don’t like it!
There are many many reasons to pray that are deep and complex (what else would you expect when your communing with an infinite God?). Here’s just a small list..
- Develop a relationship with God
- Align our will with His
- Align our compassion with each other (pray for one another)
- Off load emotion to God
- Change our attitude
- Prayer changes things – when we change and release God to work
A small note on the last point. God is often interested in blessing us. However, He will never bless us if that blessing will be taken for granted, misused or worst of all put distance between us and Him. Therefore if prayer adjusts our attitude then it also releases God's blessing and from OUR perspective then prayer has dynamic demonstrable results. The reality is of course that from God's perspective He knew our attitudes would change and that He would bless us. His mind never changed.
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Sine Nomine
Scientist and Christian
Can you provide Scriptures to support 1 and 2 above? My earthly father never failed to answer my requests (No was not an uncommon answer), my Heavenly Father is much more attentive.
"Ask whatever you desire, in my name, and it will be given you" says that the Lord is concerned about a great deal more than "his mission".
Matt 7:7-11 says "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!"
This says God is interested in our wants and needs--not simply our salvation. He also doesn't give bad things in response to requests for good things.
When God's answer to prayer is clearly 'No' we should be trusting that God knows what is good for us, even when we don't.
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Rev. Thomas
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I experience prayer as a form of meditation. It's not about my individual wants, but rather, it's about my relationship with God, or the universe.
For me, prayer is followed by silence, by listening to God with my entire being, all my senses. The experience and the spiritual growth flow from the silence more so than from the words of the prayer.
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Sine Nomine
Scientist and Christian
On the whole, a fine answer, but I believe the Bible supports that God also grants requests and takes action when asked. I agree that this is not because God is convinced to act outside his nature or will.
The cry from the people of Sodom and Gomorrah rises up to God and he takes action.
Hannah asks for a son and receives one.
Elijah asks why God killed the widow's son and God restores the son's life.
Jesus' disciples haven't caught a single fish after a day of fishing--they are barely even asking--Jesus says try the other side and there are more fish than they can handle.
God meets physical as well as spiritual needs and not simply as a result of our changed perspective.
It's worth noting for the OP question, that the prayer of Jesus--"let this cup pass from me". Offered repeatedly, is met with a No. As a man, Jesus did not desire death. As God's Son, God incarnate, he says "not my will but thine be done". I believe that Jesus willingly died for us, not just obedience, but joyful agreement with the Father in purposing our salvation. Nevertheless, as a man of flesh and bone, he could fear and wish to avoid death. No is not an easy answer, but we can trust God's goodness.
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marineimaging
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We are all going to die. All of us. When we die is according to God, not us. Some of us will get sick at what seems the worst possible time. And if we love someone there will NEVER be a convenient time to die nor is there ever a good time to get sick. What we ask for in prayer is peace of mind that our God has it under his control and although it hurts, to help us find rest and peace in His presence. It is the nature of free will that others will be violent. We can ask and pray that they stop being violent but those who are violent in their heart do not care what you pray for. They relish the turmoil but here is the hard part to understand. God gave us ALL free will. It takes both sides wanting peace to make peace happen.
One side praying and the other side lobbing missiles and arrows doesn't work. If God were to intervene at every instance then we would not have free will. Someone would have to be His slave and that would violate His own terms for love. In order to stop the violence both sides would have to love the other and if either side loved because God forced it upon them, then free will is gone and slavery is the rule of the day.
God is not our personal slave or magician. Prayer is about subjecting ourselves to God's will. It is about praising God. It is about asking for guidance to do HIS will. It is not about asking for something carnal regardless of what others tell you. In one way it's like this. Faith in prayer to God no bigger than a mustard seed can move mountains. But we have to be careful because if we had the power to move the mountain without God's will invoked then we might end up setting the mountain atop of a person that God was sending into the site to bury the communication cables. The same goes for our material needs. If we trust in God and our prayers are pleasing to him we will find ourselves with what He wishes for us.
I had a heart attack and spent 4 days in CICU connected to a machine until surgery. By the time it was over all our savings were gone. I have no doubt that God was involved but not like someone caught up in worldly riches might want to believe. Mine was in the fact that I found new trust in our Lord as I watched our life's savings bleed away. Why? Because I had become arrogant enough to believe that I could rest my future on my own earnings. He showed me that in blink of the eye it could all be gone. Even the job I was so certain I would have for the rest of my life considering what I had put into it was suddenly jerked away. So, I had to place my trust in Him fully and completely.
Then I had a post op infection from the original operation and it took 9 months to get over that. Well, we went even deeper into debt to overcome that problem, but to this date we have not had a day without a roof over our head, without a meal on the table, without the comforts afforded the human body and soul's needs. We find solace in our church group and we find joy in putting that little tithe check into the collection plate. My prayer is that someday I can return it all to those who helped and certainly to our church with a lot more tithe, but not at the expense of becoming arrogant like I did the first time. If it means staying indebted to remind myself that my service is to God first and my trust is in Him, the I will stay right where I am for now.
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Brian Mcnamee
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James says this about unanswered prayer; You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.
Are you praying that your character would reflect Jesus that your love for others would grow and you would mature in the Lord and be useful for the kingdom of God? Or are you praying for temporal things like a good job and a hot girlfriend. jesus talks about he who loses His life for Christ's sake is the one who finds it and he who keeps this life is going to lose it. Here are a couple prayers Paul offers for the believers in the book of ephesians. if you pray like this for yourself and others there will be an amazing transformation. Eph 3: 14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,[fn] 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
If you start praying like this and grow in your love , devotion and understanding of God you will find the center of God's will for your life. He will take your temporal understanding of how to spend your life and pour over the purpose God has for you. You are given a circle of family friends and aquaintences to have a sphere of influence over. In this realm God want s you to glorify his name and proclaim his salvation and this attitude will effect all the other areas of your life.
One other observation is its seems that your definition of prayer is asking God for things. That is one aspect of prayer. But how about prayers of thanksgiving or prayers of worship. The Lord has given us eternal life and forgiveness of sins and when we reflect on that an overflowing heart of gratitude and praise will pour out. Look here in heaven Rev 5 john records that a seal scroll was presented and no one was found worthy to open it in heaven or earth and john wept much. The angel then tells John not to weep for the Lion of the Tribe of Judah has prevailed to take the scroll and open its seals.
Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us[fn] kings[fn] and priests to our God;
And we[fn] shall reign on the earth.”
Do you see in heaven the significance of Jesus victory over sin and death. The destiny of the saved is to rule and reign with Jesus in the kingdom age. Get an eternal perspective and pray accordingly.
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Many of us have to suffer grievous trials in this life, which the apostle says proves to all our genuine faith to the praises of God, and of course Jesus said we will receive houses and lands, fathers and mothers and trials and troubles and in the end eternal life. This world is not our home, we are just sojourning through it.
1 Peter 1New King James Version (NKJV)
Greeting to the Elect Pilgrims
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
A Heavenly Inheritance
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
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God is not the great candy machine in the sky where we plunk in our prayers and push the button and out comes the desired results. The real purpose of prayer is the development of a relationship with God, it is more about finding out God's will and submitting to it than getting what we want. God is love and His will is always for our very best (not something less than that). When a five year old son begs for full-sized Harley Davidson motorcycle, the parents' true love for him will result in a "No." Often we do not know what we are asking. And in some cases it is a "Wait until the time is right." And the divine answer is always "Trust my love, wisdom, and timing, child."
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