What is the point of infant baptism?

[Akita Suggagaki]

Lets not forget welcome into the Christian community.

 

[Albion]

Looks like a number of conclusions that are based upon not knowing what baptism, as the historic churches understand it, is all about, grandvizier.

 

[Gods not mad]

One is that it doesn't affect a person's salvation or relationship with Christ.

it dosen't and if it did it would be a work that would then have to be added to salvation. Christs death on the cross was the payment made in full and nothing can be added to it or his perfect sacrifice would be insufficient to save. the thief on the cross would not have been in paradise with Christ this very day either. nor the guy in the foxhole ect... a baby can not believe what it does not know and baptism always follows repentance or metanoia in greek which means change of mind. acts 16:31-33 and also romans 6 baptism is and outward declaration of an inward conversion. you are identifying with Christs death burial and resurrection. you stand up then you go under then you come from beneath to victory.

 

[GodLovesCats]

If that were true, then the mentally retarded or autistic would be excluded.

The Bible speaks nothing of an "age of accountability" where one is suppossedly old enough to decide to be baptized. That's something that is foreign to the biblical world where religious voluntarism was not a given.

Excluded from what? Obviously not the Kingdom of Heaven because many autistic people are Christians - notice CF has a section for such people. Mental retardation does not prevent people from being saved any more than those with normal intelligence. Autism is a specturm that starts with nearly normal people who do not fit in the "retarded" label.

 

[GodLovesCats]

And resurrection for the new.

It symbolizes the resurrection of Jesus when pastors immerse a born-again believer in a baptismal. When churches do this, they think of it as the appearance of Jesus going to the grave and back.

 

[FireDragon76]

Excluded from what? Obviously not the Kingdom of Heaven because many autistic people are Christians - notice CF has a section for such people. Mental retardation does not prevent people from being saved any more than those with normal intelligence. Autism is a specturm that starts with nearly normal people who do not fit in the "retarded" label.

Some people are so profoundly autistic they cannot communicate or even understand things like religion (because it typically deals with abstractions). In my church, if they are baptized, they are considered full members of the Church, regardless of their mental capacity. But for a Baptist ,they would not be because they cannot actively assent to faith.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Again, the word autistic does not mean a child is automatically incapable of understanding abstracts such as religion. They actually are very detail-oriented, which is why a four-color jigsaw puzzle represents ASD awareness. I would be happy to discuss this further in the appropriate section.

 

[FireDragon76]

Again, the word autistic does not mean a child is automatically incapable of understanding abstracts such as religion. They actually are very detail-oriented, which is why a four-color jigsaw puzzle represents ASD awareness. I would be happy to discuss this further in the appropriate section.

Not automatically, no, but there are some people with autism that are profoundly autistic and will never communicate verbally. Those kinds of people can't give an active confession of faith, which is necessary in the Baptist religion in order to be baptized.

I myself have Asperger's. But that's on an extreme end of the spectrum that is relatively high functioning verbally.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Now you're saying some Protestants agree with the Catholics on confessing their sins to be saved. I think confessing sins directly to God is good enough for that.

 

[prodromos]

Now you're saying some Protestants agree with the Catholics on confessing their sins to be saved. I think confessing sins directly to God is good enough for that.

Scripture says to confess our sins to one another. Who do you have who keeps you accountable?

 

[GodLovesCats]

Scripture says to confess our sins to one another. Who do you have who keeps you accountable?

Where does the Bible say you can't be forgiven without confessing your sins to someone else?

 

[prodromos]

Where does the Bible say you can't be forgiven without confessing your sins to someone else?

So you only follow some Scripture, and you criticize those who follow it all?

 

[GodLovesCats]

So you only follow some Scripture, and you criticize those who follow it all?

I don't know all Scripture. One thing I do know is I was saved without confessing.

 

[FireDragon76]

Now you're saying some Protestants agree with the Catholics on confessing their sins to be saved. I think confessing sins directly to God is good enough for that.

Confession of faith is stating what you believe. In the Baptist religion, you must do that before you can be baptized and join the Church.

 

[grandvizier1006]

If you listen to what Dr Prince says, it will tell you what baptism means to the believer. It is a funeral and burial for the old nature.

To get back to the topic at hand, this is why I would have liked an adult baptism. I'd have been old enough to appreciate the symbolism and meaning of baptism. But as a baby I don't remember it and I feel like I missed out on a very vital Christian event.

 

[FireDragon76]

To get back to the topic at hand, this is why I would have liked an adult baptism. I'd have been old enough to appreciate the symbolism and meaning of baptism. But as a baby I don't remember it and I feel like I missed out on a very vital Christian event.

Do you remember your own birth? Yet that's a vital event in most peoples lives.

 

[grandvizier1006]

Do you remember your own birth? Yet that's a vital event in most peoples lives.

No, but I would at least like to have remembered my baptism as a moment to look back on when I genuinely came to Christ. I didn't have anything special like that happen the night or day that it actually happened.

 

[FireDragon76]

No, but I would at least like to have remembered my baptism as a moment to look back on when I genuinely came to Christ. I didn't have anything special like that happen the night or day that it actually happened.

As Jesus told Thomas, "Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believe".

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

it dosen't and if it did it would be a work that would then have to be added to salvation. Christs death on the cross was the payment made in full and nothing can be added to it or his perfect sacrifice would be insufficient to save. the thief on the cross would not have been in paradise with Christ this very day either. nor the guy in the foxhole ect... a baby can not believe what it does not know and baptism always follows repentance or metanoia in greek which means change of mind. acts 16:31-33 and also romans 6 baptism is and outward declaration of an inward conversion. you are identifying with Christs death burial and resurrection. you stand up then you go under then you come from beneath to victory.

The thing about baptism is that it is necessary, but it is not absolutely necessary. Hence, yes, absolutely, the thief on the cross and others have been saved without it. Baptism isn't a meritorious work done by any human because of the simple truth that baptism isn't a work of humans. Rather, baptism is a work of God.

 

[FireDragon76]

GV, honestly I feel like this whole thing is a distraction, it's akin to worrying about whether we get the right amount of dill or cumin in our offering.

Lutherans in the South get this sort of thing alot too. We are told "Yes, but did you really accept Jesus as your Savior?" or "Going to church isn't the same thing as having a real relationship with Jesus". Sheep stealers are everywhere down here, and they are more interested in a feather in their proselytism cap. Usually, they are some flavor of Arminian, as well.

I would encourage you to explore your own religious tradition more thoroughly before you go deciding it has an inadequate understanding of baptism.