What is the "falling away" in 2 Thess 2?

[Dartman]

2 Thess 2:1-12 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

What we know;
1) Paul is foretelling a "falling away", that is already at work in his time, and won't be destroyed until Jesus returns... "the brightness of his coming".
2) This warning is to the brethren, so the "falling away" would be from their perspective, a separation IN the Church.
3) This "falling away" would sit "as God.. in the temple of God" ... which would be great authority, and would appear to be THE Church ..(1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?)
4) This "falling away" would NOT teach the truth.
5) This "falling away" would rely on power, signs and lying wonders.

 

[Adstar]

It is the falling away from the truth.. Meaning many will no longer believe in the Gospel way of salvation but will believe in false doctrines.. They will be given over to deceptions..

 

[Dartman]

It is the falling away from the truth.. Meaning many will no longer believe in the Gospel way of salvation but will believe in false doctrines.. They will be given over to deceptions..

Very good.
How does/did the "falling away" sit "as God, in the temple of God"?

 

[Adstar]

Very good.
How does/did the "falling away" sit "as God, in the temple of God"?

2 Thessalonians 2: KJV
4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

I do not exactly know.. I have heard different speculations.. One physical one symbolic..

We know that our bodies are temples of God so if a person is possessed by satan then satan is sitting in a the temple of God showing himself that he is God..

It could also be the anti-christ actually sitting as the king of the world in Jerusalem in a rebuilt physical temple..

But again it could be something else.. time will tell..

 

[2Timothy2:15]

2 Thess 2:1-12 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

What we know;
1) Paul is foretelling a "falling away", that is already at work in his time, and won't be destroyed until Jesus returns... "the brightness of his coming".
2) This warning is to the brethren, so the "falling away" would be from their perspective, a separation IN the Church.
3) This "falling away" would sit "as God.. in the temple of God" ... which would be great authority, and would appear to be THE Church ..(1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?)
4) This "falling away" would NOT teach the truth.
5) This "falling away" would rely on power, signs and lying wonders.

The falling away, is the falling away from sound doctrine. That is why the header found usually over this chapter is called "the great apostasy". As we can see, this is already happening at a large scale and is not what you ironically hear in these ministries being taught. They say it is people leaving their chruch and that clearly is not what the bible is saying ironically enough, or not so ironically.

 

[Dave-W]

My dad said it was Pentecostalism.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Very good.
How does/did the "falling away" sit "as God, in the temple of God"?

When we look at spiritual truths we see a few things. One misconception is that people are waiting for some third physical temple. This could be in fact built but it would only be a completion in the deception. The third temple is us, the believer. Now we hear things like the mini god doctrine or dominion-ism where people think they are "like" god being able to speak things into existence. This is essentially sitting on the throne by usurping the Lord and acting as if that person is equal.

 

[Dartman]

2 Thessalonians 2: KJV
4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

I do not exactly know.. I have heard different speculations.. One physical one symbolic..

We know that our bodies are temples of God so if a person is possessed by satan then satan is sitting in a the temple of God showing himself that he is God..

It could also be the anti-christ actually sitting as the king of the world in Jerusalem in a rebuilt physical temple..

But again it could be something else.. time will tell..

Actually, history tells.
This "falling away" was at work in Paul's time, and will continue until Jesus returns..... so we need to look for a major split in the church, which was just beginning in Paul's time, and eventually got SO big it appeared to be "the temple of God". .. acting as God.

 

[Sanoy]

This is a good point. As I look back over my prior thoughts of the falling away, as a lack of Christianity, and how close the end must be it's interesting that as I look over things in this light the end seems so much closer.

I don't believe that there will be a third temple built in Jerusalem because I think the third temple was built by Christ of which we are it's bricks. So when the man of sin sits in the temple of God that's the church. That fits here with the falling away.

I have been studying evolution a lot this month and while it may not seem like it on the surface every year that goes by something is discovered that makes it harder and harder for evolution. The biggest of late being extant dinosaur soft tissue and C14 in a low contamination scenario. The more I studied it I just couldn't help but get the feeling that something is going to be discovered that turns secularism on it's head pulling everyone back to belief in God. However those leaving secularism would mix their baggage with God forming a world church. The world doesn't actually want atheism. They want religion without restrictions.

 

[Dartman]

When we look at spiritual truths we see a few things. One misconception is that people are waiting for some third physical temple. This could be in fact built but it would only be a completion in the deception. The third temple is us, the believer. Now we hear things like the mini god doctrine or dominion-ism where people think they are "like" god being able to speak things into existence. This is essentially sitting on the throne by usurping the Lord and acting as if that person is equal.

Again, we MUST look for a "falling away" within the Church, that was beginning in Paul's time, and would appear to the observer as "the temple of God" ... acting with, or usurping God's authority. And, we must identify this "falling away" from the truth, as an entity still existing to Christ's return.

 

[Dartman]

This is a good point. As I look back over my prior thoughts of the falling away, as a lack of Christianity, and how close the end must be it's interesting that as I look over things in this light the end seems so much closer.

I don't believe that there will be a third temple built in Jerusalem because I think the third temple was built by Christ of which we are it's bricks. So when the man of sin sits in the temple of God that's the church. That fits here with the falling away.

I agree. We know Jesus WILL build a new temple, in Jerusalem, after his 2nd coming ... which is described in Eze chapters 40 and on, but there is NO indication of any temple being built before that point.

I have been studying evolution a lot this month and while it may not seem like it on the surface every year that goes by something is discovered that makes it harder and harder for evolution. The biggest of late being extant dinosaur soft tissue and C14 in a low contamination scenario. The more I studied it I just couldn't help but get the feeling that something is going to be discovered that turns secularism on it's head pulling everyone back to belief in God. However those leaving secularism would mix their baggage with God forming a world church. The world doesn't actually want atheism. They want religion without restrictions.

I watched a VERY good documentary recently; "Is Genesis History?"
I don't agree with EVERY point, but they managed to do a great job on about 99% of it.

 

[Dartman]

My dad said it was Pentecostalism.

I would not see how that fits. That movement wasn't EVER sitting "as God", in "the Temple of God", nor has that movement been in existence from Paul's time to the 2nd coming.... so I don't think they fit the passage.

 

[Dave-W]

I would not see how that fits. That movement wasn't EVER sitting "as God", in "the Temple of God", nor has that movement been in existence from Paul's time to the 2nd coming.... so I don't think they fit the passage.

I agree. But that was his understanding, which apparently was taught in his seminary.

He was ordained in the Wesleyan Methodist denom. circa 1950.

 

[Sanoy]

I have been thinking about what this would look like. In 2 Thessalonians 7 in the ESV we have "7 For the mystery(1) of lawlessness(2) is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way."

1. I looked up strongs for this word mystery. It implies that initiation is necessary to the understanding.

2. This same word Lawlessness may not be what we think when we see the word. I think Jesus may have told us the meaning of the word lawlessness through the Pharisees. When we think Pharisee, we think of strict law abiding right? Well, Ironically the Pharisees are the representation of Lawlessness. Jesus comes right out and calls them Lawless. Lets look at Matthew 23.

Matthew23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

The restrainer is often placed as the Holy Spirit. And here it is the Holy Spirit that the Pharisees lack. They are able to appear as lawful ones on the surface but without the Holy Spirit they lack the law of Justice Mercy and Faithfulness and so Jesus calls them Lawless.

So when we see the corruption of the church in the news and watch more churches turn sin into righteousness we are not witnessing the lawlessness. The lawlessness is covert. It is the lack of the Holy Spirit in those proclaiming Christianity. In the past it was the law that restrained wickedness but after Christ it is the Holy Spirit that restrains it, in a law written on our hearts. The lawlessness of 2 Thessalonians seems to be the lack of the law upon the heart. This lack of a law upon the heart is the source of the overt lawlessness but it is also the source of the corrupted lawfulness (think pharisees) that goes about unknown.

 

[Sanoy]

I watched a VERY good documentary recently; "Is Genesis History?"
I don't agree with EVERY point, but they managed to do a great job on about 99% of it.

I watched it last week it was good.