What is the American Dream, to you?

[Tallguy88]

History is never black and white. In any country. Dismiss myth, not truth. Yes it was the best country on earth ever. We didn't fight harder to keep it, being very naive and believing Gorbachev with his sweet talk, but murderous actions. He lied. He betrayed.

BTW - Holodomor in the Kazakh language is "Joot". Why nobody in the Western world knows about equal if not bigger suffering if my people at the same years? Because we don't blame the Soviet government. Ee tell the truth as it was. Who needs it in the world of geopolitics? Nobody.

And he didn't send in the tanks to suppress the people overthrowing of the Soviet puppet governments in the Warsaw Pact countries the way Stalin and Breshnev had done in Hungary and Czechoslovakia. So when the people realized that the USSR wasn't going to kill them for revolting, they revolted until there was nothing left of the Eastern Bloc but the USSR itself, which began to dissolve in 1991 with even Russia seceeding from the Union.

Dissolution of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

Even Vladimir Putin himself says the USSR was doomed from the start by Lenin's ideology of it being a free association of independent states, and not only by the actions of Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Basically, every part of the Union wanted out of the Union.

Putin: Lenin’s Ideas Destroyed USSR by Backing Republics Right to Secession

 

[Tull]

I guess I can say I've heard it all now

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

And he didn't send in the tanks to suppress the people overthrowing of the Soviet puppet governments in the Warsaw Pact countries the way Stalin and Breshnev had done in Hungary and Czechoslovakia. So when the people realized that the USSR wasn't going to kill them for revolting, they revolted until there was nothing left of the Eastern Bloc but the USSR itself, which began to dissolve in 1991 with even Russia seceeding from the Union.

Dissolution of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

Even Vladimir Putin himself says the USSR was doomed from the start by Lenin's ideology of it being a free association of independent states, and not only by the actions of Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Basically, every part of the Union wanted out of the Union.

Putin: Lenin’s Ideas Destroyed USSR by Backing Republics Right to Secession

In Czechoslovakia, Poland, etc all the anti-Soviet political forces were of course independent and not supported by anybody? The USSR was fighting for its interests. Geopolitics. There were two poles - US and USSR. They played games...

Those buffer states in Eastern Europe now became NATO slaves. Good trade? I talk to people from there often, they say under socialism it was heaven, now it's hell.

Here we go. Wikipedia again. Dissolution of the USSR was after a staged coup d'estat orchestrated by Gorbachev.

Putin isn't truth. Only Jesus is truth. The USSR wasn't doomed at all. It's a lie. Only after Gorbachev destroyed USSR during 1985-1991, it was broken up by national Republics.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

I guess I can say I've heard it all now

Not even a small portion of truth you've heard. It'll take two lives to clean up the lies of Western propaganda, provided, there's an open mind.

 

[Tull]

Not even a small portion of truth you've heard. It'll take two lives to clean up the lies of Western propaganda, provided, there's an open mind.

You sound like you were or are a party official,i heard they lived quite well,as far as western propaganda goes we just down want your system here.I guess you could say the American dream has morphed into the American hope that we can keep it out.

 

[Strivax]

Well, I guess this thread has departed, not only from the the OP, but also from the Christian Philosophy & Ethics theme of the forum. But that's OK, I've found it interesting to read, and hope you all have, too.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Tull]

Well, I guess this thread has departed, not only from the the OP, but also from the Christian Philosophy & Ethics theme of the forum. But that's OK, I've found it interesting to read, and hope you all have, too.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Now that's funny,America is a lying,stealing,fornicating,aborting adulterous nation......Christian ethics indeed,attempting to put the lipstick of socialism on the heathen pig.

 

[Goodbook]

So, I'm just now listening to a pertinent BBC Radio program.

Are the pursuit of happiness, the pursuit of economic success, and the pursuit of virtue, necessarily or not necessarily the same thing? If you think they are, is 'individualism' in politics necessarily a social good, and why? If they aren't, which of these pursuits should be the priority for any Christian, and why?

Best wishes, Strivax.

Not the same thing, different. Virtue is a priority for the Christian, read book of proverbs. Why, go read the book of proverbs to find out why.

 

[Goodbook]

See philippians 4:8 talks about virtue..or things that are lovely, noble and true and good...,to think on those things.

 

[Goodbook]

To answer your question, i dont live in america so am not sure what ALL americans dream about, but one of my cousins went over there to make a fortune on wall st, and so did the former prime minister of my country. I dont think they went over there to be happy, you can be happy anywhere. Also i dont think they went over there to be virtuous either.

 

[Goodbook]

Might be a good question to ask my american born relatives. What do you dream about?

If they answer I will post it here.

Does america include canada or do you just mean the US.

 

[Strivax]

Now that's funny,America is a lying,stealing,fornicating,aborting adulterous nation......Christian ethics indeed,attempting to put the lipstick of socialism on the heathen pig.

It may be of some surprise to you to know, Tull, that not all of ethics is about sex. Some of us, indeed, consider who sleeps with who to be a rather trivial, petty matter, in contrast to the deprivations and deaths caused by the poverty that is in turn caused by the unjust distribution of the world's wealth.

But hey; I am a sixties child. Your mileage may vary.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Strivax]

Might be a good question to ask my american born relatives. What do you dream about?

If they answer I will post it here.

Does america include canada or do you just mean the US.

The 'American Dream', as I understand it, is the US of A ideal that anyone can come to America from anywhere, and if they obey the law and work hard, they can achieve anything they want, be that inordinate wealth, a materially better life for themselves and their offspring, or just to become the next US president. I am not sure the Canadian zeitgeist puts the same philosophical emphasis on social mobility, or, if it does, talks about it quite so much.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Tull]

It may be of some surprise to you to know, Tull, that not all of ethics is about sex. Some of us, indeed, consider who sleeps with who to be a rather trivial, petty matter, in contrast to the deprivations and deaths caused by the poverty that is in turn caused by the unjust distribution of the world's wealth.

But hey; I am a sixties child. Your mileage may vary.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Sure,you have your own Christianity where you decide what matters and what doesn't and what sin is and is not,it run your own show and answer to no mine,i saw that with the first post

 

[Tull]

The 'American Dream', as I understand it, is the US of A ideal that anyone can come to America from anywhere, and if they obey the law and work hard, they can achieve anything they want, be that inordinate wealth, a materially better life for themselves and their offspring, or just to become the next US president. I am not sure the Canadian zeitgeist puts the same philosophical emphasis on social mobility, or, if it does, talks about it quite so much.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Or get on the internet and complain about how others choose to live their lives and what their priorities are

 

[EverybodyLoveEverybody]

The individual rights to life and happiness given by God and described in the U.S. Bill of Rights cannot be measured by man nor constructs of man on Earth.

So, I'm just now listening to a pertinent BBC Radio program.

Are the pursuit of happiness, the pursuit of economic success, and the pursuit of virtue, necessarily or not necessarily the same thing? If you think they are, is 'individualism' in politics necessarily a social good, and why? If they aren't, which of these pursuits should be the priority for any Christian, and why?

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Goodbook]

The 'American Dream', as I understand it, is the US of A ideal that anyone can come to America from anywhere, and if they obey the law and work hard, they can achieve anything they want, be that inordinate wealth, a materially better life for themselves and their offspring, or just to become the next US president. I am not sure the Canadian zeitgeist puts the same philosophical emphasis on social mobility, or, if it does, talks about it quite so much.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Well that sounds positive, do you think thats true for you, are you american? I have a book called america, land of dreams. I suppose it is like that for many, since it was after all the NEW World for many. Canada would have been too cold.

 

[Goodbook]

Also, there was that 'i have a dream' speech. By Martin Luther King.

 

[Strivax]

Sure,you have your own Christianity where you decide what matters and what doesn't and what sin is and is not,it run your own show and answer to no mine,i saw that with the first post

Uh huh. You're quite right. I have my own scheme of virtue and vice, and it's at root it's quite simple. Virtue is measured in width and depth by the spread of love one has for others, and the degree of the sacrifices one is prepared to make to secure the well-being of those one loves. Vice is measured in width and depth by the number of people one harms in pursuit of selfish ends, and the degree of those harms.

Though it borrows from both traditional Christianity and utilitarianism, it's an easy enough model to comprehend, that works for me, and so I commend it to you.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Tull]

Uh huh. You're quite right. I have my own scheme of virtue and vice, and it's at root it's quite simple. Virtue is measured in width and depth by the spread of love one has for others, and the degree of the sacrifices one is prepared to make to secure the well-being of those one loves.

You are free to decide your own sacrifices but not for others

Vice is measured in width and depth by the number of people one harms in pursuit of selfish ends, and the degree of those harms.

Again not for you to judge for anyone but yourself

Though it borrows from both traditional Christianity and utilitarianism, it's an easy enough model to comprehend, that works for me,

Excellent

and so I commend it to you.

For me to decide