What is Sin

[music4two]

The Bible say what sin is (two examples)

1 John 3:
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness

and

5:
17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

Yes but what does "law" or Lawlessness mean. For that you must understand the concepts of the Hebrew law/torah. This was precisely the points I brought up in my post.
Carrying a Western thinking concept about law leads to a different conclussion then God or the Hebrew writers of scripture intended.

 

[Rut]

Yes but what does "law" or Lawlessness mean. For that you must understand the concepts of the Hebrew law/torah. This was precisely the points I brought up in my post.
Carrying a Western thinking concept about law leads to a different conclussion then God or the Hebrew writers of scripture intended.

Maybe this can help you

http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G266&Version=kjv

http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G458&Version=kjv

I have take the verse from 1 John 3:4

 

[music4two]

Maybe this can help you

http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G266&Version=kjv

http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G458&Version=kjv

I have take the verse from 1 John 3:4

I am afraid I do not see your point. Are you agtreeing with me? These definitions agree that sin means missing the mark.

 

[music4two]

What happened? This conversation was just getting interesting. I would like to continue if some would chime in.

 

[clayforHim648]

Romans 7:7-13​

​

What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:19-21​

 

[music4two]

Romans 7:7-13​

​

What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:19-21​

it would be nice if you would clarify what your point is with these scriptures.

Thanks ---

 

[clayforHim648]

That was kind of my point, Music, they speak for themselves.

The question of the post is "What is Sin?"

So the Scripture speaks for itself. Sin is revealed by the Law and the acts of the sinful nature are obvious to men

 

[music4two]

That was kind of my point, Music, they speak for themselves.

The question of the post is "What is Sin?"

So the Scripture speaks for itself. Sin is revealed by the Law and the acts of the sinful nature are obvious to men

In order to understand your coment I need to have you define your terms. Can you define three words "sin" " Law" and "sinfull nature"? Please define them from scripture AND by their original languages.

 

[Carey]

The church has accepted and embraced a definition of "Sin" that is both lame and inaccurate. "Missing the mark" is not a good definition of sin. Not hitting the bullseye in an archery contest is "missing the mark". Is that a sin?
What then is sin?

Sin is willfully, intentionally doing anything that you know is against the will of God.

Even if it isn't against the will of God but you think it is, that makes it a sin.

If however you do it and you do not know that it is against the will of God, it is not a sin. It may be a mistake. It may be breaking a law, but unless you KNOW that it is against the will of God, it is not a sin against God.

A sin can NOT be accidental. If it is not willfull or intentional, it is not a sin.

Sin is any thought or action in contradiction to Gods will and nature.
We are born sinners not made by our own will.

 

[music4two]

Sin is any thought or action in contradiction to Gods will and nature.
We are born sinners not made by our own will.

Yuck -- Not the ugly head of Calvinism coming up again.

 

[StephanStrategy]

Yuck -- Not the ugly head of Calvinism coming up again.

Of course! It's the only logical conclusion.

Mike

 

[holyrokker]

Sin can mean:

* To act perversely, to twist and distort
* To be stubbornly disobedient
* To refuse to serve God
* To act treacherously or deceitfully
* To be rebellious
* To be lawless, to refuse to conform
* To be obstinate or uncompliant
* To deviate from the right
* To be ungodly, to act impiously
* To be unjust, to refuse to do right.

 

[holyrokker]

We are born sinners not made by our own will.

The opposite - we become sinners when we sin.

Sin cannot be an inherited "feature" of humanity. That would make sin a physical or genetic defect.

If sin is physical or genetic, Jesus died in vain, because He could have simply "cured" mankind.

 

[holyrokker]

I agree that "missing the mark" isn't good enough -

It isn't that we "miss the mark" simply because we aren't good archers. We "miss the mark" because we don't care to take aim at the mark. We also don't care to learn how to shoot the arrow correctly.

A master archer can hit the mark because he wants to, and is diligent in training.

We also "miss the mark" because we are focused on the wrong target. We "miss the mark" by pursuing our own interests rather than God's interests.

 

[holyrokker]

oops - edited because i was repeating myself

 

[clayforHim648]

Music wrote:

Can you define three words "sin" " Law" and "sinfull nature"? Please define them from scripture AND by their original languages.

Dr. Charles Ryrie has given a listing of Hebrew and Greek words which describe sin. He says that in the Hebrew there are at least eight basic words: “ra, bad (Genesis 38:7); rasha, wickedness (Exodus 2:13); asham, guilt (Hosea 4:15); chata, sin (Exodus 20:20); avon, iniquity (I Samuel 3:13); shagag, err (Isaiah 28:7); taah, wander away (Ezekiel 48:11); pasha, rebel (I Kings 8:50). The usage of these words leads to certain conclusions about the doctrine of sin in the Old Testament. (1) Sin was conceived of as being fundamentally disobedience to God. (2) While disobedience involved both positive and negative ideas, the emphasis was definitely on the positive commission of wrong and not the negative omission of good. In other words, sin was not simply missing the right mark, but hitting the wrong mark. (3) Sin may take many forms, and the Israelite was aware of the particular form which his sin did take.”

“The New Testament uses twelve basic words to describe sin. They are: Kakos, bad (Romans 13:3); poneros, evil (Matthew5:45); asebes, godless (Romans 1:18); enochos, guilt (Matthew 5:21); hamartia, sin (I Corinthians 6:18); adikia, unrighteousness (I Corinthians 6:9); anomos, lawlessness (I Timothy 2:9); parabates, transgression (Romans 5:14); agnoein, to be ignorant (Romans 1:13); planan, to go astray (I Corinthians 6:9); paraptomai, to fall away (Galatians 6:1); and hupocrites, hypocrite (I Timothy 4:2). From the uses of these words several conclusions may also be drawn. (1) There is always a clear standard against which sin is committed. (2) Ultimately all sin is a positive rebellion against God and a transgression of His standards. (3) Evil may assume a variety of forms. (4) Man’s responsibility is definite and clearly understood.”

The Law is laid out in the Pentateuch and includes but is not limited to the Ten Commandments which we find listed twice in Exodus. The entire law was built on these 10 principles and the entire law is summarized by Christ in Mark 12 by saying, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."

The sinful nature is evidenced first hand in the beginning of Genesis and the Fall of man through Adam. The doctrine of original sin is very clearly explained and contrasted with Christ and his conquering of death in Romans 5.

 

[holyrokker]

The sinful nature is evidenced first hand in the beginning of Genesis and the Fall of man through Adam. The doctrine of original sin is very clearly explained and contrasted with Christ and his conquering of death in Romans 5.

Romans 5:12

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all have sinned

Notice that it doesn't say sin entered mankind.
It also doesn't say sin came to all men. Why did death come to all men? Because all men have sinned.

Romans 5:18-19

Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

This passage can't mean that all of mankind is born with a sinful nature because of Adam. To interpret that we'd also have to assume that all of mankind is also automatically made righteous because of Christ.

 

[music4two]

Music wrote:

Can you define three words "sin" " Law" and "sinfull nature"? Please define them from scripture AND by their original languages.

Dr. Charles Ryrie has given a listing of Hebrew and Greek words which describe sin. He says that in the Hebrew there are at least eight basic words: “ra, bad (Genesis 38:7); rasha, wickedness (Exodus 2:13); asham, guilt (Hosea 4:15); chata, sin (Exodus 20:20); avon, iniquity (I Samuel 3:13); shagag, err (Isaiah 28:7); taah, wander away (Ezekiel 48:11); pasha, rebel (I Kings 8:50). The usage of these words leads to certain conclusions about the doctrine of sin in the Old Testament. (1) Sin was conceived of as being fundamentally disobedience to God. (2) While disobedience involved both positive and negative ideas, the emphasis was definitely on the positive commission of wrong and not the negative omission of good. In other words, sin was not simply missing the right mark, but hitting the wrong mark. (3) Sin may take many forms, and the Israelite was aware of the particular form which his sin did take.”

“The New Testament uses twelve basic words to describe sin. They are: Kakos, bad (Romans 13:3); poneros, evil (Matthew5:45); asebes, godless (Romans 1:18); enochos, guilt (Matthew 5:21); hamartia, sin (I Corinthians 6:18); adikia, unrighteousness (I Corinthians 6:9); anomos, lawlessness (I Timothy 2:9); parabates, transgression (Romans 5:14); agnoein, to be ignorant (Romans 1:13); planan, to go astray (I Corinthians 6:9); paraptomai, to fall away (Galatians 6:1); and hupocrites, hypocrite (I Timothy 4:2). From the uses of these words several conclusions may also be drawn. (1) There is always a clear standard against which sin is committed. (2) Ultimately all sin is a positive rebellion against God and a transgression of His standards. (3) Evil may assume a variety of forms. (4) Man’s responsibility is definite and clearly understood.”

The Law is laid out in the Pentateuch and includes but is not limited to the Ten Commandments which we find listed twice in Exodus. The entire law was built on these 10 principles and the entire law is summarized by Christ in Mark 12 by saying, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."

The sinful nature is evidenced first hand in the beginning of Genesis and the Fall of man through Adam. The doctrine of original sin is very clearly explained and contrasted with Christ and his conquering of death in Romans 5.

I was going to address your post until I read the last section. Since you are an advocate of the original sin theory, I do not see the point. If you are a serious proponent of this theory, your concept of God and Christ will not be very accurate and without that it is impossible for you to understand God’s heart about sin or forgiveness.

 

[clayforHim648]

"I was going to address your post until I read the last section. Since you are an advocate of the original sin theory, I do not see the point. If you are a serious proponent of this theory, your concept of God and Christ will not be very accurate and without that it is impossible for you to understand God’s heart about sin or forgiveness"

Please enlighten me as to how I do not understand God's heart about sin and forgiveness and give biblical support for another view besides the doctrine of original or inherent sin...

 

[New_Wineskin]

It isn't that we "miss the mark" simply because we aren't good archers. We "miss the mark" because we don't care to take aim at the mark. We also don't care to learn how to shoot the arrow correctly.

A master archer can hit the mark because he wants to, and is diligent in training.

We also "miss the mark" because we are focused on the wrong target. We "miss the mark" by pursuing our own interests rather than God's interests.

That is saying that people earn salvation and righteousness . If we hit the mark - it is *we* hitting the mark - obtaining righteousness and salvation . It isn't a good definition .