What is Science? Is it in the Bible?

essentialsaltes · Mar 20, 2023

ruthiesea said:
How about scientists who are not Christians but believe in G-d?

Here's a ten-year old poll. Note the top pie is what the general US public looks like, and the bottom is among scientists.

In a separate question, "just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power."

Diamond72 · Mar 20, 2023

ruthiesea said:
How about scientists who are not Christians but believe in G-d?

Religion helps you to be a better person and live a better life.
But it is only through the Blood of Jesus that we can be saved.

Diamond72 · Mar 20, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
No. The Bible was written before science developed.

Long before modern science. Moses was the son of a Pharaoh, so he got a good education. As much science as they know back then. The Egyptians made some medical breakthroughs for fixing broken bones and dealing with the health issues of the people building the pyramids. Of course their big claim to fame was working with gold and other precious metals.

Occams Barber · Mar 20, 2023

ruthiesea said:
How about scientists who are not Christians but believe in G-d?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'G-d'.

Isn't 'G-d' the way some people choose to refer to the Christian God?

Wouldn't that mean that those who believe in G-d are Christians?

OB

Yttrium · Mar 20, 2023

Occams Barber said:
I'm not sure what you mean by 'G-d'.

Isn't 'G-d' the way some people choose to refer to the Christian God?

Wouldn't that mean that those who believe in G-d are Christians?

OB

Spelling it that way is a Jewish custom.

Occams Barber · Mar 20, 2023

Yttrium said:
Spelling it that way is a Jewish custom.

Thanks.

OB

AV1611VET · Mar 20, 2023

Occams Barber said:
Wouldn't that mean that those who believe in G-d are Christians?

Not necessarily.

The Pharisees and Sadducees believed in G-d as well.

As Paul puts it:

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Occams Barber · Mar 20, 2023

AV1611VET said:
Not necessarily.

The Pharisees and Sadducees believed in G-d as well.

As Paul puts it:

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

I didn't know that the Pharisees and Sadducees spoke English.

I thought their word for God was the Hebrew tetragram - YHWH

OB

AV1611VET · Mar 20, 2023

Occams Barber said:
I didn't know that the Pharisees and Sadducees spoke English.

Cute.

QvQ · Mar 21, 2023

Science is a description and a crude explanation of what man observes at a particular time in the natural world.

Occams Barber · Mar 21, 2023

QvQ said:
Science is a description and a crude explanation of what man observes at a particular time in the natural world.

This is how the Oxford dictionary defines science;

the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation, experimentation, and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained.

This is how the Science Council defines science:

Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence.

Scientific methodology includes the following:

Objective observation: Measurement and data (possibly although not necessarily using mathematics as a tool)
Evidence
Experiment and/or observation as benchmarks for testing hypotheses
Induction: reasoning to establish general rules or conclusions drawn from facts or examples
Repetition
Critical analysis
Verification and testing: critical exposure to scrutiny, peer review and assessment

Our definition of science - The Science Council ~

Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence.

sciencecouncil.org

The key difference between your definition and these definitions is the concept of applying a systematic methodology Science goes beyond simple description to applying a systematic methodology to understand how and why things happen in the natural world.

It's also not clear why you have used the term 'crude explanation' when scientific explanations can be both complex and detailed.

OB

QvQ · Mar 21, 2023

Occams Barber said:
Objective observation: Measurement and data (possibly although not necessarily using mathematics as a tool)

Evidence

Science is a description based on observataion using the tools that are available at the time. When the tools become more sophisticated the observations can change dramatically. (Webb Telescope, mature galaxies)

Occams Barber said:
Induction: reasoning to establish general rules or conclusions drawn from facts or examples

Repetition

Critical analysis

If the observations are limited to eyeball, then for instance, explaining the causitive agent in a disease is limited to what the mind can devise, notably dyscrasia and miamas. With a microscope, there is more detail but the way it all works together is subject to speculation and guesswork. Therefore, even in this modern age, explanations are crude. I would expect many of our theories will seem crude in another century.

Peer review, if everyone is working with the same limited information and the same flawed assumptions, then all of the peers are most likely misleading and mislead.

Occams Barber · Mar 21, 2023

QvQ said:
Science is a description based on observataion using the tools that are available at the time. When the tools become more sophisticated the observations can change dramatically. (Webb Telescope, mature galaxies)

If the observations are limited to eyeball, then for instance, explaining the causitive agent in a disease is limited to what the mind can devise, notably dyscrasia and miamas. With a microscope, there is more detail but the way it all works together is subject to speculation and guesswork. Therefore, even in this modern age, explanations are crude. I would expect many of our theories will seem crude in another century.

Peer review, if everyone is working with the same limited information and the same flawed assumptions, then all of the peers are most likely misleading and mislead.

If we apply your logic, science will always be 'crude' until we reach the unreachable point where we know everything and have instrumentation capable of seeing and measuring all there is to see and measure.

Science moves on by gradually adding new information and revising or, occasionally, discarding existing explanations. In broad terms it moves forward but it will never have the certainty you appear to be longing for.

Peer review may have its occasional problems but by and large it helps to keep science honest. Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

OB

Diamond72 · Mar 25, 2023

Occams Barber said:
I didn't know that the Pharisees and Sadducees spoke English.

Usually, his answer is they did. Latin was a universal language at the time - like English is today. Latin evolved into English. Alef is the first letter Bet is the second letter. That is why we use the word alphabet. God confused language at the tower of Babel. The A is upside down. It represents the horns on the lead animal in a herd.

Diamond72 · Mar 25, 2023

Yttrium said:
Spelling it that way is a Jewish custom.

The "Jewish" people do not want people to know the name of God. His name is holy and should not be on the tongue of unholy people. In ancient Jewish tradition, scribes were required to wash their hands before copying the name of God. This practice was based on the belief that the name of God was sacred and should be treated with the utmost respect and reverence.

Occams Barber · Mar 25, 2023

Diamond7 said:
Latin evolved into English.

While Latin and English are very distantly related cousins, Latin did not evolve into English.

English is a language brought to Britain in the 5th-6th centuries as a result of a gradual, seaborn invasion by Germanic tribes (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Friesians) from the far side of the North Sea. At that time native British tribes spoke a variety of Celtic. The invaders spoke a number of related Germanic dialects which eventually coalesced into Anglo-Saxon or Old English and displaced Celtic in southern and eastern Britain. Later Viking invasions added other Scandinavian Germanic dialects to the mix.

The big change came in the 11th century when England was conquered by the Norman French. The result was a linguistic split where the upper echelons of society (nobles, church, military, landowners, law, government) spoke a variety of French while the common people spoke Old English. Over time the two languages gradually merged to form one language which is, at its core, Germanic, but with a large French based vocabulary.

Latin on the other hand 'evolved' into various 'Romance' (of Roman origin) languages like Italian, French, Spanish and Portuguese.

OB

Diamond72 · Mar 25, 2023

Occams Barber said:
Germanic tribes (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Friesians)

Yes, when the small British tribe could not defend itself, the Anglo-Saxons moved in. They were on the outside of civilization and the Romans never tried to conquer them. The matriarch of my family was a Plantagenet.

Occams Barber · Mar 25, 2023

Diamond7 said:
Yes, when the small British tribe could not defend itself, the Anglo-Saxons moved in. They were on the outside of civilization and the Romans never tried to conquer them. The matriarch of my family was a Plantagenet.

The Anglo Saxons invaded Britain in the 5th century. There were no Plantagenets in Anglo-Saxon Britain until the 12th century.

The Plantagenet line is actually French and comes from Anjou. The first Plantagenet King was Henry II, the son of Geoffrey, Count of Anjou crowned in 1154.

Henry didn't speak English and probably spent most of his life in France.

OB

dzheremi · Mar 25, 2023

Maybe it's just me, but I take people who refuse to spell God correctly in a regular English-language conversation way less seriously than I take the viewpoints of scientists on matters of religion...and I don't take most of those seriously at all.

Diamond72 · Mar 25, 2023

Occams Barber said:
There were no Plantagenets in Anglo-Saxon Britain until the 12th century.

We can trace our family back to the Vikings in the 8th century. Our family records were destroyed before that.

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