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What is Gods will?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by SUNSTONE, Feb 18, 2003.

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  1. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

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    Please show scripurally your position on the absolute state of fallen man.  In my opinion I have not forgotten the state of fallen man, but I would like to see where you have gotton your opinion of that state from.

    But he is forced into heaven, and is given, according to this doctrine, a love for God outside of his will to love God.  Love does not force itself upon others.  According to this doctrine, man has no choice to be changed, saved, gain love, or heaven.

    While it is true that I am not God, I do have the nature of God in me, and the nature of God is love, and God has clearly defined love in the scriptures, so yes the comparison is valid.  Again the real problem is our differing deffinitions to the extent of the depravity of fallen man, so I again ask that you show scriptural support for your position.

    And I will ask you a question, is a disobedient man saved?  You have said that we are free to be obedient.  Why would God save a person who is going to be disobedient?  and if God is so sovereign to change a person then why is the change so incomplete, why is there still disobedience everywhere?  Did He save us from hell just so that we could have the freedom to be disobedient, disobedient in heaven?  None of this makes sence to me.
     
  2. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

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    my post has change I messed up on the quoting thing so please recheck it.
     
  3. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    They go to hell.
     
  4. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

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    so God creates people just so that they can go to hell?
     
  5. SUNSTONE

    SUNSTONE Christian Warrior

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    According to your beliefs, it is Gods will that some goto hell.
     
  6. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

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    "For God so loved the world... " Except for those He wants to go to hell.
     
  7. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    Romans 3:10-18
    As it is written:


            "There is none righteous, no, not one; 
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<SUP> </SUP>There is none who understands;
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is none who seeks after God.&nbsp;
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<SUP> </SUP>They have all turned aside;
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; They have together become unprofitable;
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is none who does good, no, not one."&nbsp;
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<SUP> </SUP>"Their throat is an open tomb;
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; With their tongues they have practiced deceit";&nbsp;
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "The poison of asps is under their lips";&nbsp;
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<SUP> </SUP>"Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."&nbsp;
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<SUP> </SUP>"Their feet are swift to shed blood;&nbsp;
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<SUP> </SUP>Destruction and misery are in their ways;&nbsp;
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<SUP> </SUP>And the way of peace they have not known."&nbsp;
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<SUP> </SUP>"There is no fear of God before their eyes."&nbsp;



    Well, that definitely sounds like man is forced, but only if you believe fallen man would, of his own&nbsp;fallen will, ever freely come to&nbsp;God.&nbsp; The truth of salvation is that he would not.&nbsp;&nbsp;Prior&nbsp;to the Fall man had the ability to make righteous choices and sinful choices.&nbsp; I&nbsp;would not say that his will was "free" because he was still limited in what he could&nbsp;bring about, but he was definitely much freer than&nbsp;man post-Fall.&nbsp; When man fell from grace his nature was corrupted.&nbsp; The term used by those that hold to this belief is "total depravity."&nbsp; I do not think this term is very helpful because "total" can be taken numerous ways and more often than not it is&nbsp;interpreted incorrectly.&nbsp; The correct use of the&nbsp;word "total," in this sense,&nbsp;refers to the&nbsp;completeness of fallen man's corruption, i.e., that every part of his being was&nbsp;corrupted by sin.&nbsp; "Total" is not a reference to level of depravity, i.e., that fallen man is as bad as he could&nbsp;possibly be.&nbsp; Fallen man had no inherent righteousness, therefore he could make no righteous choice.&nbsp; "Choosing to live a life of obedience to God" is a righteous choice, therefore fallen man's nature, being at enmity with God, would never make this choice.&nbsp; Biblical love and biblical hate are much different than the context in which we, as humans who are often led by our emotions, use the words.&nbsp; Biblical love is not an emotion.&nbsp; It is an action.&nbsp; Biblical love is giving the recipient of your love that which they most need with no regard for yourself.&nbsp; Biblical hate is not active, as we would use the term "hate."&nbsp; When we say we "hate" something or someone our feelings are active.&nbsp; We normally do something, even if it is as simple as having bad thoughts toward something or someone.&nbsp; Conversely, biblical hate is passive.&nbsp; Biblical hate is just not extending to the recipient that which they most need.&nbsp; I'll give you an example:

    Proverbs 13:24
    He who spares his rod hates his son,
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

    Now, most people would not say that if someone didn't "promptly discipline" their son that they "hate" them.&nbsp; But what this means is that loving your child&nbsp;(giving the recipient of your love that which they most need with no regard for yourself) means that you will promptly discipline your child to train them and you will do so without considering how their actions affected you but rather you do so to teach them godly character.&nbsp; In this verse the man who fails to promptly discipline his son is "hating" him because he's not teaching him that which he needs.

    Another, more well known verse, is another good example:

    Romans 9:13
    As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

    In this instance the same idea is shown.&nbsp; To Jacob God gave that which Jacob most needed, salvitic grace, with no regard for the enmity between Himself and Jacob, who was fallen.&nbsp; However, to Esau, God did not actively work evil into his heart.&nbsp; Esau was already fallen.&nbsp; All God did was not give Esau that which he most needed, salvitic grace.

    There is another meaning for biblical hate and it is shown here:

    Luke 14:26
    "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple."

    Now obviously the Lord is not telling us to "hate" our family.&nbsp; What He is saying is that that if anyone comes to Him and loves his family more than he loves God he cannot serve God loyally, as shown here:

    Luke 16:13
    "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other.

    So, we must love our family but we must love the Lord even more than we love our family.

    Let me clarify my opinion on the process of salvation.&nbsp; First off, salvation is cannot be summed up by saying it's an instantaneous thing.&nbsp; Yes, when the Lord saves us eternally we are saved, forever after.&nbsp; But salvation as a whole is a progressive thing.&nbsp; We are eternally saved from the wrath of God, we are being saved from our fallenness through sanctification, and we will be finally saved when we are glorified.&nbsp; Man is not "saved" against his will because when God regenerates a fallen (dead) creation He gives us a new desire.&nbsp; It is our greatest desire to be saved.&nbsp; It was not, however, the natural inclination of fallen man.&nbsp; So, man does, in a sense, "have a choice."&nbsp; One theologian, his name escapes me, once said, "Man&nbsp;MUST ALWAYS choose according to his greatest desire or inclination at the time."&nbsp; No matter what decision you make you make it because it's your greatest desire or inclination.&nbsp; The problem with fallen man is that his greatest desire or inclination&nbsp;is NEVER to serve God so he will NEVER freely choose to serve God.&nbsp; That's why it's referred to as being "in bondage" to our fallenness.&nbsp; When we are fallen we always serve our flesh and our flesh always rebels against godliness.


    Yes, but you are regenerate.&nbsp; You are no longer&nbsp;depraved.&nbsp; You are no longer fallen, at least not in the eternal sense.&nbsp; Saying that a saved individual has the ability to exhibit the love of God is not in question.&nbsp; I have been referring to the nature of fallen man, which&nbsp;has not&nbsp;been imputed with the righteousness of Christ, nor is fallen man given a nature that seeks to please God.

    I don't think I can answer that question.&nbsp; There are saved disobedient people and unsaved disobedient people.&nbsp; Getting our salvation wasn't a result of being "obedient" so judging someone's state of salvation is not something I am commanded to do, in fact I'm commanded to not do it.

    Yes, if you're saved.

    I was going to answer these separately but the answer applies to both.&nbsp; "Disobedience," and I assume that you mean "disobeying the Word of God," is one of the methods that God uses to conform us to the image of righteousness, to the image of His Son.&nbsp; God uses your wife's disobedience to put you in a position where you can exhibit the grace of God and respond to her in godliness.&nbsp; How could you learn to respond in godliness if you never encountered a disagreeable person?&nbsp; God works ALL things to your good, all of them, even the sinfulness of others.

    Don't confuse the nature of regenerate man to the nature of glorified man.&nbsp; In this broken vessel we often succumb to our old, fallen&nbsp;nature, that still resides in us and sometimes we respond according to our new, regenerate nature.&nbsp; It is this battle of our old nature against our new nature that builds godly character.&nbsp; Has anyone ever yelled at you and your first inclination was to yell back?&nbsp; Has God ever given you the grace to respond to that type of thing in a godly way?&nbsp; Don't you learn more about the grace of God when you see that His Word is effectual in a real practical sense?&nbsp; I remember one time my wife was in a really bad mood and she yelled at me, and I could tell it was just the start.&nbsp; She was gearing up.&nbsp; The first thing I wanted to do was yell back.&nbsp; Then I thought, I should deal with this in a godly way.&nbsp; God says that a soft word turns aside wrath.&nbsp; So, I tried that.&nbsp; Well, it was like all of a sudden all the wind came out of her sails and she wasn't sure what to do.&nbsp; What she did do was immediately, and I mean immediately, calmed down.&nbsp; You wanta talk about the grace of God?&nbsp; That was it.&nbsp; Anyway, when we are glorified we will have no desire to rebel against God's Law and&nbsp;our greatest desire&nbsp;will always&nbsp;be to obey, and that is what we will freely do.

    God bless
     
  8. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    I never said that was their only purpose.&nbsp; God uses those that He does not save to conform His chosen.&nbsp; But yes, God's Will is that some people will go to Hell:

    Romans 9:21-24
    Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?&nbsp; What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,&nbsp;and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

    Now I don't know about you, but to me, "vessels of wrath pre(that means before)pared for destruction" and "vessels of mercy prepared beforehand for glory" is pretty clear.&nbsp; The verse tells us plainly that the Potter (God) has power of His own creation to create from the same lump (Adam) one vessel for honor (the elect) and another for dishonor (the reprobate).

    God bless
     
  9. JesusServant

    JesusServant do not stray too far left nor right but CENTER

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    I posted something OT in another thread. Thought I'd duplicate it here so that you guys could help me with the couple of questions I posted...
    Can anyone explain how all of these are not true?

    1 Timothy 2:4 God will have all to be saved

    1 Timothy 2:6 Salvation of all is testified in due time

    Ephesians 1:11 God works all after the counsel of His will

    John 12:47 Jesus came to save all

    John 4:42 Jesus is the Savior of the world

    1 John 4:14 Jesus is the Savior of the world

    John 12:32 Jesus draws all to Himself

    Hebrews 7:25 Jesus is able to save to the uttermost

    Colossians 1:15 Jesus is the firstborn of all creation

    Colossians 1:16 By Him all things were created

    Romans 5:15-21 In Adam all condemned, in Christ all live

    1 Corinthians 15:22 In Adam all die, in Christ all live

    Ephesians 1:10 All come into Him at the fullness of times

    1 Corinthians 15:26 Last enemy, death, will be destroyed

    Philippians 2:9-11 Every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord

    1 Corinthians 12:3 Cannot confess except by the Holy Spirit

    Romans 11:26 All Israel will be saved

    Acts 3:20-21 Restitution of all

    Luke 2:10 Jesus will be joy to all people

    Ephesians 2:7 His grace shown in the ages to come

    Hebrews 8:11-12 All will know God

    Titus 2:11 Grace has appeared to all

    Romans 8:19-21 Creation set at liberty

    Colossians 1:20 All reconciled unto God

    1 Corinthians 4:5 All will have praise of God

    James 5:11 End of the Lord is full of mercy

    Revelation 15:4 All nations worship when judgments are seen

    II Corinthians 5:17 New creation in Christ

    Romans 11:32 All subject to unbelief, mercy on all

    Romans 11:36 All out of God, through Him, and into Him

    Ephesians 4:10 Jesus will fill all things

    Revelation 5:13 All creation seen praising God

    1 Corinthians 15:28 God will be all in all

    Revelation 21:4-5 No more tears, all things made new

    John 5:25 All dead who hear will live

    John 5:28 All in the grave will hear and come forth

    Mark 9:49 Everyone shall be salted with fire

    Romans 11:15 Reconciliation of the world

    II Corinthians 5:15 Jesus died for all

    John 8:29 He always does what pleases His Father

    Hebrews 1:2 He is heir of all things

    John 3:35 All has been given into His hand

    John 17:2 Jesus will give eternal life to all whom His Father gives to Him

    John 13:3 The Father gave Him all things

    I Timothy 4:9-11 Jesus is the Savior of all

    Isaiah 46:10 God will do all His pleasure

    Daniel 4:35 God's will done in heaven and earth

    Proverbs 16:9 Man devises, God directs his steps

    Proverbs 19:21 Man devises, but God's counsel stands

    Psalms 33:15 God fashions all hearts

    Deuteronomy 32:39 God kills and makes alive

    Psalms 90:3 God turns man to destruction then says "return"

    Lamentations 3:31,32 God will not cast off forever

    Isaiah 2:2 All nations shall flow to the Lord's house

    Genesis 18:18 All families of earth will be blessed

    Isaiah 45:23 All descendants of Israel justified

    Psalms 138:4 All kings will praise God

    Psalms 72:18 God only does wondrous things

    Psalms 86:9 All nations will worship God

    Psalms 65:2-4 All flesh will come to God

    Psalms 66:3-4 Enemies will submit to God

    Isaiah 19:14-25 Egypt and Assyria will be restored

    Ezekiel 16:55 Sodom will be restored

    Psalms 22:25-29 All will turn to the Lord and all families will worship before Him

    Psalms 145:9-10 He is good to all and merciful to all His work

    Psalms 145:14 God raises all who fall

    Psalms 145:16 God satisfied the desire of the living

    Isaiah 25:6 Lord makes feast for all people

    Isaiah 25:7 Will destroy veil that is spread over all nations

    Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory

    Jeremiah 32:35 Never entered His mind to burn people in fire

    Psalms 135:6 God does what pleases Him

    I firmly believe in following a simple rule when studying Scripture. When the Bible says this or that, always find out what it also says. God has made promises in the list I've provided that will come to pass. God will not go back on a promise. So I have a hard time believing that He, in his infinite wisdom and knowledge doesn't have a plan beyond our comprehension.

    I know it is overwhelming to answer all the Scripture provided. So I ask anyone to answer this one simple question if you don't want to take on the Scriptures I posted...

    If God wants us to love Him, not because we're like robots, but because we really love Him, then why would He ever threaten us with Hell as the alternative?
     
  10. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    Sunstone, everyone would go to hell if God did not intervene.&nbsp; And that was most assuredly God's Will.&nbsp; You make it sound as if we're not created beings.&nbsp; Wonderfully and gloriously made, yes, but created nonetheless.&nbsp; Why would we question God sending His own creation to destruction?&nbsp; We're His creation.&nbsp; We're not autonomous.&nbsp; If you created an ashtray and after you created it threw it in a fire and burned it up does the ashtray have the right to say, "Hey, that's not fair!!"&nbsp; What would you say?&nbsp; You'd say, "What are you talking about?&nbsp; I created you.&nbsp; I can do whatever I want."&nbsp; I know that's a strange analogy but the point is that we don't deserve salvation, not even after we're saved.&nbsp; No one, and I mean no one, is always sinless.&nbsp; God said the wages of sin is death.&nbsp; He didn't say the wages of sin unrepented for is death.&nbsp; So, if you only commited one sin in your entire life, you earned hell.&nbsp; If God saves you from that deserved fate and not someone else does that mean God was unfair to the one He didn't save?&nbsp; Of course not.&nbsp; If you want to get technical, the one He was unfair to was you.&nbsp; If He gave you what was fair you'd go to hell just like the other guy.&nbsp; That's why it's grace, because you didn't deserve it.

    God bless
     
  11. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    SnuP, the word "world" is used something like nine DIFFERENT ways in the Bible.&nbsp; Do you think that just because you interpret "world" to mean every person that that's what it has to mean?&nbsp; What about the verses that specifically talk about those that God hates.&nbsp; Do you think God loves those He hates?&nbsp; What about those that go to hell?&nbsp; Do you think God is sitting there in Heaven loving those that are eternally condemned?&nbsp; Do you believe God, knowing who would and who wouldn't be saved, set Himself up for eternal disappointment for those He knew would not be saved?
     
  12. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    JS, was that post directed at me?&nbsp; If so, I couldn't begin to comment on them.&nbsp; Every single one of those partial verses is taken out of context and can mean any number of things.

    Because God is just.&nbsp; Just because He tells us the punishment for our sinfulness doesn't make Him obligated to enable us to live obediently.&nbsp; Not to mention, I'm not aware of any passage in Scripture that exemplifies God threatening saved individuals with eternal damnation.&nbsp; Maybe you could provide an example.&nbsp; Just one will do. ;)

    God bless,

    Don
     
  13. JesusServant

    JesusServant do not stray too far left nor right but CENTER

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    No Ref. It wasn't directed at you at all. I found them on a website and I don't care how partial they are. I know we have to keep everything in context. But the more I study Scripture the more evidence I'm finding that God is promising that all will be saved.

    I use that exact same 'argument' for lack of a better term when describing how God must be just to be good, if He wasn't just then how could He be good? But that doesn't help me witness to people when they ask, questions like "If God knows before a human soul is formed that it will suffer in eternal torment then why make that human just so it can end up suffering in eternal damnation?" I can't answer that question and it plagues me. I know I am redeemed, but I refuse to threaten other people into accepting Jesus because the alternative is damnation in hellfire. Get what I mean?
     
  14. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    Well, universalism&nbsp;can be&nbsp;very appealing.&nbsp; I know that if you are considering that point of view it stems from a&nbsp;desire&nbsp;for everyone to experience the love of God.&nbsp; It just&nbsp;shows that you care about others.&nbsp; I would encourage&nbsp;you to continue&nbsp;studying though.&nbsp; I don't personally see any support for that belief.&nbsp;

    As difficult as it is to deal with sometimes we have to understand that it is God who enlightens His creation.&nbsp; You could be the most prolific, well versed evangelist in the world and if you are speaking to someone that is unregenerate it is of little use, unless of course you're looking to waste a few hours.&nbsp; The real issue is that we don't know whom God has redeemed so we are commissioned to spread the Word to all people.

    I understand what you're getting at, but I must say that it's not a biblically based line of reasoning.&nbsp; People "accept Jesus" because they are saved, not so they can be saved.&nbsp; The "alternative" to not being saved by God is definitely damnation but it is your job to trust God and understand that it is His sovereign design to bring some to a saving knowledge of Himself and leave others to their fallenness.

    God bless
     
  15. JesusServant

    JesusServant do not stray too far left nor right but CENTER

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    But doesn't that very standpoint bring God's justness into question?&nbsp; I know God to be perfect.&nbsp; His perfection is beyond my current reasoning.&nbsp; His love for me and man in general is so strong and I feel it in an overwhelming way sometimes to the point that it is almost too much love because if He didn't hold back I'd go into&nbsp; despression trying to live this life without that feeling and knowledge of His love constantly with me.&nbsp; But this very love is so pure Ref that the more I come to know God the harder it is for me to believe He wants any of His children to suffer in eternal torment, especially if they've been tricked or mislead into it unwittingly.

    It does come down to trust and we have to trust in things not seen.&nbsp; I do, and so do many others who disagree on basic principals of the Bible.&nbsp; I feel like I'm missing something very large that God will reveal to me soon but I'm growing impatient.&nbsp; Pray for me please, I know God has plans for me that are going to blow my tiny mind when they are revealed to me.&nbsp; These are two issues that I am sure He will bring peace to my heart about, but like I said, I'm impatient.&nbsp; :)&nbsp;

    BTW, &nbsp;I don't think I have anything to offer anyone, but I do have a big heart.&nbsp; I've often said my heart is too big.&nbsp; Ref, I'm a 29 year old man that can hardly watch the news because I tear up and even weep at the events I see unfolding.&nbsp; I often wonder, is this because of me, or is this God dwelling in me that gives me this love for others.&nbsp; I believe it is God dwelling in me that gives me this heart for the world.
     
  16. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    In what way?&nbsp; God's justness does not require Him to treat all people the same.&nbsp; "Just" does not mean "equilateral."&nbsp; The justness of God is not contingent upon us.&nbsp; "Just" means "conforming to a standard of correctness; acting or being in conformity with what is morally upright or good;&nbsp;legally correct."&nbsp; It&nbsp;is a perfectly just, and righteous action for&nbsp;God to&nbsp;send sinners to hell.&nbsp;&nbsp;The assumption&nbsp;I think most people&nbsp;make is that because God acts one way toward some people He is then obligated to act the same way to everyone else.&nbsp; No where in the Bible is that supposition borne out.&nbsp; God extends His grace, in every form imaginable, all throughout the Word.&nbsp; God is consistant in His justness, not His methods.

    He doesn't.&nbsp; Those that go to hell are not children of God.&nbsp; They are a creation of God, but not&nbsp;His children in the sense that He works all things to their good:

    John 1:12,13
    But as many as received Him, TO THEM He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    Not everyone is a child of God.&nbsp; Only those that were born of the Will of God.

    I certainly will pray for you.&nbsp; And, I encourage you to acknowledge that even if those plans&nbsp;seem very&nbsp;inconsequential to you they are important.&nbsp; Ironically, many people see godly people and say stuff like, "Now there's someone that God can use" as if our skills, which He gave us in the first place, are pivotal to God's Plan.&nbsp; I often hear people say that they believe God will give them some huge ministry but the strange thing is I never hear anyone say, "I think God wants me to be a lowly, unrecognized, unappreciated servant of others."&nbsp;&nbsp;I see these&nbsp;people on TBN and it blows my mind that they think they represent Christ.&nbsp; They are bedecked in stuff so expensive that it's gaudy, preaching to a mass of people, getting worldwide acclaim and I think, "How in the world is that like Christ?"&nbsp; Christ came to serve.&nbsp; People, even Christians for the most part,&nbsp;unfortunately measure&nbsp;someone's success by materialistic things.&nbsp; A man is considered successful if he has a nice house, a pretty wife, a good job, and a nice car, and good social standing.&nbsp; None of those things are important to God.&nbsp; We place value on those things.&nbsp; The most important job God has given me is to be a godly husband to my wife and a godly father to my children whom He has entrusted into my care.&nbsp; He doesn't care whether I have a nice car.&nbsp; Anyway, didn't mean to rant, I just want you to know that it is the way you deal with&nbsp;the plans God has for you that matters, not how great the plans seem.

    I think your love for others is, from what I can tell, the most obvious thing about your personality.&nbsp; And don't downplay how valuable that is.&nbsp; Look what God said:

    1 Corinthians 13:13
    And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

    God bless my brother,

    Don
     
  17. JesusLoveA

    JesusLoveA Working Woman

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    I don't agree with your veiw on this but, that's life ha?
    We do have to do something to be saved. You just don't wake up one morning and bam! Your saved. You have to ask God into your heart to stay and tell Him that your a sinner,and that you believe He died on the cross to wash those sins away,and make you a new person in Christ. Then you have to make sacrifices and changes in your liffe so that you can have a closer walk with God. That is unles you want to be a 'easy' christian.
    You have to meet God half way, with your sacrifces.
     
  18. JesusServant

    JesusServant do not stray too far left nor right but CENTER

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    I can't disagree with anything you posted there Ref. You are right on. When I say He has plans for me, it has nothing to do with the TBN style of large, but on a servant style of large. I couldn't agree with you more about how people forget that we are servants of Christ not that He is to serve us as much material wealth as possible. As far as finances go, my goal is to be debt free (because the borrower is slave to the lender), other than that I need nothing more but to serve God. Heck, that's why I chose this name for CF. It is the name we should all use. We are all Jesus servants :)

    My grandfather, through Christ, taught me the importance of family, love, honor, hard work. These things are beyond most of today's Americans and I fear bad things are coming for this nation because of it. Not necessarily because God is going to punish this nation like Sodom, but because this nation is self destructing, forgetting who and why we were flourishing in the first place. This nation has forgotten it's first love. :(
     
  19. JesusServant

    JesusServant do not stray too far left nor right but CENTER

    +7
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution

    You haven't been here long enough to know you are preaching to the choir if you're talking to me.&nbsp; :)&nbsp; I'm just having a hard time with Hell right now and am seeking input on it.&nbsp; My hope is in Christ and if it's up to me to stay out of hell then I'm doomed.&nbsp; Thank God for&nbsp;Jesus eh? :)

    I don't go willynilly sinning everywhere.&nbsp; My sins are self inflicted like&nbsp;maybe an immoral thought.&nbsp; My soul is getting stronger in rising above my flesh.&nbsp; Man that flesh is hard on a soul.

    p.s. Third Day ROCKS!&nbsp; Look for the "The Christian Hang Out" thread in this forum.
     
  20. JesusLoveA

    JesusLoveA Working Woman

    62
    +2
    Non-Denom
    Alright. And yeah they do! LOL ;)
     
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