What is biblical truth when there is no consensus?

chevyontheriver · Dec 27, 2022

Saint Steven said:
I love their tagline slogan that reads, "With a name like Smuckers, it has to be good." - LOL

It's an acquired taste.

chevyontheriver · Dec 27, 2022

Saint Steven said:
If I really believed I was called into ministry, I wouldn't let a Bishop stop me. But then I'm not Catholic either. - LOL
Get a store front and hang up a shingle.

The Catholic understanding is that you AND your bishop have to agree to your calling. Otherwise you weren't called and aren't ordained.

ARBITER01 · Dec 27, 2022

Saint Steven said:
What is biblical truth when there is no consensus?

Only what The Holy Spirit reveals to you inside.

If you have a fellowship and communion with The Holy Spirit, this becomes an almost hourly thing in your life. Our dependency is on GOD, not other people.

Guojing · Dec 27, 2022

Saint Steven said:
Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote about that.

When someone shares their opinion about the Bible, but in order to end the debate, claims your argument is not with them, that is playing the "God card" in my view.

Well said, when people resort to "Your argument is with God/Jesus/Paul and not with me", they often forget that they are also interpreting the Bible.

Guojing · Dec 27, 2022

Saint Steven said:
Biggest problem with a religious forum... everyone is selling, but no one is buying. (in general)

The good thing about Internet forums is that you get the true feelings of fellow Christians.

I often find that, in real life bible study groups, people just don't want to disagree with the group leader because of possible misinterpretation due to speech, compared to written words, and the lack of time to do so.

For the latter, the more you take up time from the rest with your "incessant questioning", the more they are irritated with you because you are delaying the timing of their home journey.

Saint Steven · Dec 28, 2022

ARBITER01 said:
Only what The Holy Spirit reveals to you inside.

If you have a fellowship and communion with The Holy Spirit, this becomes an almost hourly thing in your life. Our dependency is on GOD, not other people.

That's a great point, thanks.
In that light, agreement among humans pales.

Here's a question:
How do we defend this against the charge of Relativism? (your truth/my truth)

ARBITER01 · Dec 28, 2022

Saint Steven said:
That's a great point, thanks.
In that light, agreement among humans pales.

Here's a question:
How do we defend this against the charge of Relativism? (your truth/my truth)

Portions of Christianity are individual.

For example,.... It's my job to ensure my salvation, it's Jesus's job to manage the overall outcome of the body of Christ.

Also, with spiritual maturity, there will always be differences in how each of us understands the various aspects of GOD. Some people will have great insight and experiences from Him whereas others will just be the more church goer types. Some will have a great knowledge of the truth of GOD and some will be ever learning but never knowing. Some just datadump everything you throw at them.

Each person has a different capacity of learning as well as a different capacity of faith. Some people will have a greater relationship with GOD and others won't. Some are chosen, some are called, etc.

The best thing I can do is worry about myself. I need to ensure that I'm understanding GOD correctly and being obedient to Him, I'm not called to be responsible for someone else's thoughts and actions.

All Becomes New · Dec 28, 2022

Michael Collum said:
I actually do hold the orthodox view on the trinity.

You simply focussed on the wording of the verse that implied that you didn't.

No, here is the orthodox view (which I agree with regardless of you thinking I don't):

Gregory Thompson · Dec 28, 2022

Jesse Dornfeld said:
No, here is the orthodox view (which I agree with regardless of you thinking I don't):

And without consensus, the above diagram would not be available. I believe and experience the spiritual reality of that trinity also.

All Becomes New · Dec 28, 2022

Michael Collum said:
And without consensus, the above diagram would not be available. I believe and experience the spiritual reality of that trinity also.

You think yourself wise then going against what the early church said (and what is biblical).

Gregory Thompson · Dec 28, 2022

Jesse Dornfeld said:
You think yourself wise then going against what the early church said (and what is biblical).

I think myself wise? that's a new one.

Since you are not a representative of the early church, and your ideas contradict the bible as much as agree with it, it's not really a convincing thing to say.

All Becomes New · Dec 28, 2022

Michael Collum said:
I think myself wise? that's a new one.

Since you are not a representative of the early church, and your ideas contradict the bible as much as agree with it, it's not really a convincing thing to say.

I can make a Biblical case for the version of the Trinity I posted an image of. Yet you put your experience above submitting to the Bible, or so it looks to me.

One cannot experience the Trinity in their day-to-day life. We read about it in scripture. Unless you have experienced the Father and the Son, you are only left experiencing the Spirit.

sandman · Dec 28, 2022

concretecamper said:
I think you just proved the OP question

Maybe …

My reply was a soft answer based on my first response to the OP (#2). But if you have biblical proof of the transubstantiation (transubstantiating), I would not only change my mind, I would change my practice. I left myself open because I just have not seen it in the Word of God. And if it doesn’t come from God …. that leaves one other source … the mind of man (i.e., private interpretation) …. and I am not about to base anything in my walk on the words or devices of man (that comes with a caveat, but it’s not necessary to pursue right now)

And while Saint Steven used the word “intolerance” as the alternative to “interpretations brought by others” …..I am not intolerant …I may disagree, but they are welcome to practice whatever religion they want. I on the other hand will remain steadfast. As I stated in my other post ↓ (#13)
“I believe that the Word of God defines itself …generally the only thing that gets in the way of a consensus, is inference. One person or both are drawing implications from a source outside of the Word of God …be it denominational, secular, extra biblical or their own reasoning.”

Using specific guidelines…. the Bible will and does interpret itself ….to which, if we all adhered to, it would certainly cut down on “interpretations brought by others” possibly 90-95%.
But if you do not have a standard for Truth (the written Word) then anything goes. … That is where I stand. .....and if that is considered playing the “God card” then I am guilty, holding a royal flush.

Gregory Thompson · Dec 28, 2022

Jesse Dornfeld said:
I can make a Biblical case for the version of the Trinity I posted an image of. Yet you put your experience above submitting to the Bible, or so it looks to me.

One cannot experience the Trinity in their day-to-day life. We read about it in scripture. Unless you have experienced the Father and the Son, you are only left experiencing the Spirit.

The bible records Jesus praying to the Father in John 17, may they be one as we are, so the whole world will know that you sent me.

Experience of the trinity form of oneness is part of what Jesus bought and paid for, for us.

All Becomes New · Dec 28, 2022

Michael Collum said:
The bible records Jesus praying to the Father in John 17, may they be one as we are, so the whole world will know that you sent me.

Experience of the trinity form of oneness is part of what Jesus bought and paid for, for us.

Why are there so many times in the NT where it says, "God/Father and Jesus Christ" or something similar?

One prime example and there are many many others in the NT:

1 Peter 1:3 CSB17
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Gregory Thompson · Dec 28, 2022

Jesse Dornfeld said:
Why are there so many times in the NT where it says, "God/Father and Jesus Christ" or something similar?

One prime example and there are many many others in the NT:

1 Peter 1:3 CSB17
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

I'm curious what the point is.

Thank you for illustrating the need for consensus to establish a "biblical truth"

This is my last response to your posts.

Saint Steven · Dec 28, 2022

Michael Collum said:
Thank you for illustrating the need for consensus to establish a "biblical truth"

Sarcasm aside, could we discuss that a bit. You seem to get it, as usual. (shameless flattery - LOL)

There is this idea that there is only one... (at the risk of accusations of Relativism) biblical "truth".
Even the Bible writers misquoted the scriptures to make a point. What's your take?

Carl Emerson · Dec 28, 2022

Saint Steven said:
Thank you !!!!!!!!!!!
I'm glad someone gets it.

The other one is, "God told me..."

I mean... what do you say to that?

Biggest problem with a religious forum... everyone is selling, but no one is buying. (in general)

I did a long thread on this issue titled "When is the Bible God's Word"

Saint Steven said:
Thank you !!!!!!!!!!!
I'm glad someone gets it.

The other one is, "God told me..."

I mean... what do you say to that?

Biggest problem with a religious forum... everyone is selling, but no one is buying. (in general)

I did a long thread on this topic here...

Under what circumstances is the Scripture the 'Word of God'

Hi there, This is a sensitive topic but one that needs to be raised. It is a strong tradition to refer to the Bible as the 'Word of God'. Some folks on CF tend to even use Scripture as a weapon - the 'Sword of the Spirit' You may have experienced this - raise an issue for serious...

www.christianforums.com

Gregory Thompson · Dec 28, 2022

Saint Steven said:
Sarcasm aside, could we discuss that a bit. You seem to get it, as usual. (shameless flattery - LOL)

There is this idea that there is only one... (at the risk of accusations of Relativism) biblical "truth".
Even the Bible writers misquoted the scriptures to make a point. What's your take?

I get the sense that we don't read the bible, the way the writers of the bible read it, especially Jesus.

Jesus today would have been accused of prooftexting, but the pharisees had no such concern or rebuttal.

They perceived things so differently, the main flaw with biblical interpretation and consensus is that we lack the proper context. The proper context is not available to us, some pastors sell the idea that they can know, but it's just a sales pitch.

It is written, even in the bible, that we should study to be approved. However, when there is no consensus as to what the correct interpretation is, it just ends up being an exercise in people pleasing.

Saint Steven · Dec 29, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
I did a long thread on this issue titled "When is the Bible God's Word"

Thanks, Carl.

What is biblical truth when there is no consensus?

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