What is Abortion?

[Irkle Berserkle]

Although I don't believe abortion can reasonably be characterized as child sacrifice for the reasons others have stated, it is at a minimum the killing of an "incipient human being" (in the early stages) or "a child" (once the fetus would be capable of surviving outside the womb). The fallacy of the pro-abortion movement is that, until the moment of birth, the fetus/child is simply part of the woman's body. By this bizarre logic, an abortion presents no greater moral issue than the removal of a wisdom tooth or a nose job.

Along the lines of the notion of abortion as child sacrifice, however, I have said many times that I am utterly unable to fathom how supposedly sophisticated and enlightened 20th and 21st century America could tolerate a holocaust of nearly 70 million abortions since 1973, particularly when so many alternatives (from abstention to adoption) are readily available. I likewise can't fathom why abortion is such a screamingly important issue (perhaps the most important of all issues) to its proponents. It does remind me of some of the ghastly practices that seemed perfectly OK to otherwise fairly sophisticated cultures such as the Aztecs.

Unless one is willing to strip abortion of any moral dimension, I can see no good argument in favor. Like many things today, it strikes me as a Satanically inspired mass delusion.

 

[truefiction1]

Although I don't believe abortion can reasonably be characterized as child sacrifice for the reasons others have stated, it is at a minimum the killing of an "incipient human being" (in the early stages) or "a child" (once the fetus would be capable of surviving outside the womb). The fallacy of the pro-abortion movement is that, until the moment of birth, the fetus/child is simply part of the woman's body. By this bizarre logic, an abortion presents no greater moral issue than the removal of a wisdom tooth or a nose job.

Along the lines of the notion of abortion as child sacrifice, however, I have said many times that I am utterly unable to fathom how supposedly sophisticated and enlightened 20th and 21st century America could tolerate a holocaust of nearly 70 million abortions since 1973, particularly when so many alternatives (from abstention to adoption) are readily available. I likewise can't fathom why abortion is such a screamingly important issue (perhaps the most important of all issues) to its proponents. It does remind me of some of the ghastly practices that seemed perfectly OK to otherwise fairly sophisticated cultures such as the Aztecs.

Unless one is willing to strip abortion of any moral dimension, I can see no good argument in favor. Like many things today, it strikes me as a Satanically inspired mass delusion.

The reason it's so important to its proponents is that it is central the their "religion". Yes, they do have a religion, even if they don't believe this to be true. Man is by nature a religious being, and so in the absence of any notion of a divine being that ought to be worshipped, they will worship themselves through the instrument of their "religiously" held ideologies. Abortion, to the pro abortion ideologue, is the equivalent of Holy Eucharist to the Orthodox Christian. We have our sacred ritual in which Christ is sacrificed for the salvation of the world, and they have their sacrifice for the salvation of the world, which is abortion.

 

[stevevw]

Elective abortion is called "murder" by members of the pro-life community, and worse still, is claimed by some to be the modern equivalent of "child sacrifice" as practiced in ancient pagan (demonic) religious cultures by some members of the Christian Church.

I've pondered this matter at great length, and have spent some time searching the web for any Christian, scholarly or Theological presentations on this question that present a case that abortion is "not child sacrifice". The only opposition to this notion seems to come from people commenting in forums whose statements and arguments seem to me to bear out a fundamental lack of Scriptural knowledge or anything resembling Spiritual knowledge.

Are there any in here who would like to present a case for abortion, refuting the notion that it is (in the majority of cases) the communal practice of child sacrifice for the sake of worldly benefits? I think there are some who don't believe that there really is a connection/correlation between abortion and ancient pagan practice of child sacrifice. Can this belief be supported Theologically?

I think theres an obvious one in that the ancient sacrifices actually sacrificed already birthed babies and an abortion can happened at 1 day. So the psychological difference just in the physical presense of a baby can make a big difference.

I think there is this idea today that life comes in varying degrees and that some life is not as valuable. We are happy to swat a 100 flies or cockroahes and even mammals like rats. So some think the Fetus is not really a viable and valued life form. So I guess in their mind its not human to begin with so how can it be human sacrifice.

But in recent times with technology we are coming to understand the Fetus and realize that it is hard to draw a line as to human life developing and more people are thinking twice about abortion. So I think if people understood that a Fetus is actually part of being human then abortions would go down a lot.

 

[Laconia79]

Asians consider a newborn to already be 1 year old at birth. Obviously they think human life begins at conception.

Pagan Greeks even believed abortion was wrong - the original Hippocratic oath barred physicians from aborting.

Our founding fathers - the guys who wrote the constitution - considered the unborn to have the same god-given-and-thus-inalienable right to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as already born people.

Roe v Wade ruled that they didn’t know when life begins, so were guessing it was at the third trimester, and allowed abortion until then.

Today however, the medical science of embryology states that life begins at conception/fertilization, therefore Roe v Wade should be overturned and let each state determine their own abortion laws - the way it’s supposed to be, anyway.

I have never heard of a woman having an abortion for willy nilly reason. Most abortions happen in the first 2/3 months. The part of of the brain that has consciousness and fells pain does not form till 28/30 weeks or 5/6 months. And at that point it is rarely done unless there are serious medical reasons. But the simple fact is pregnancy has to be a choice, it is a process that endangers the woman's mental and physical health and can lead to death. So a victim of rape should have the option of deciding whether she wants to carry to term or not. Now that does me carte blanche. I would 4 months is long enough to decide if you want to carry or not. But that is a personal belief and I do not have the right nor does anyone have the right to control someone else's medical health. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter when life begins. It doesn't matter whether a fetus is a human being or not. The entire argument is a red herring. A distraction, a subjective and unwinnable argument that could not matter less. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about a fertilized egg or a fetus, or a baby, or a 5-year-old, or a Noble prize winning pediatric oncologist. NOBODY!!! Has the right to use your body, against your will, even to save their life, or the life of another. That's it. That's the argument. You cannot be forced to donate blood or marrow or organs even though thousands die each year, on waiting list. Not even harvest your organs after death without your explicit written pre mortem permission. Denying women the right to abortion means we have less bodily autonomy than a corpse.

 

[Laconia79]

What difference would it make even if everyone who had an abortion only had one? One child sacrificed is one child sacrificed.

So tell me, AND THIS IS A TRUE STORY!!! Woman is getting chemo and finds out she is pregnant, the chemo will most likely kill the fetus and there are already complications with the development of the fetus. Should she risk here life for a pregnancy that will not be successful. She has several other children she has to consider ( the woman I am speaking of is my aunt ). It is not a black and white issue. And it gets incredibly tiring listening to people like you speak like you have the right to enforce your moral beliefs on a person. It is funny in a way because the actions of people like you have actually caused more and more people to leave the church and religion as a whole. Christianity is actually leading people to abandon the church.

 

[truefiction1]

So tell me, AND THIS IS A TRUE STORY!!! Woman is getting chemo and finds out she is pregnant, the chemo will most likely kill the fetus and there are already complications with the development of the fetus. Should she risk here life for a pregnancy that will not be successful. She has several other children she has to consider ( the woman I am speaking of is my aunt ). It is not a black and white issue. And it gets incredibly tiring listening to people like you speak like you have the right to enforce your moral beliefs on a person. It is funny in a way because the actions of people like you have actually caused more and more people to leave the church and religion as a whole. Christianity is actually leading people to abandon the church.

Why do you use one scenerio that would be a most rare circumstance to justify the killing of millions for no other reason than not wanting to be burdened with them? Please just stop that. We all know the real motives behind the grand majority of abortions being performed. Morality is from God. It's not my morality. I'm not imposing my morality on anyone. I'm merely saying that killing children in the womb is evil because it is. People are abandoning the Church because they love the world, so the love of God is not in them. They are not abandoning the Church on account of any sort of truth. They are doing it because of lies. The scenerio you cited is a case wherein the death of the fetus would be the result of a medical treatment being given to the mother to save her life, and not because an abortion was being sought. There is a difference.

 

[Laconia79]

Why do you use one scenerio that would be a most rare circumstance to justify the killing of millions for no other reason than not wanting to be burdened with them? Please just stop that. We all know the real motives behind the grand majority of abortions being performed. Morality is from God. It's not my morality. I'm not imposing my morality on anyone. I'm merely saying that killing children in the womb is evil because it is. People are abandoning the Church because they love the world, so the love of God is not in them. They are not abandoning the Church on account of any sort of truth. They are doing it because of lies. The scenerio you cited is a case wherein the death of the fetus would be the result of a medical treatment being given to the mother to save her life, and not because an abortion was being sought. There is a difference.

Reasons for abortion:
Rape
Girl gang raped in college or high school oh and my favorite this was a few years ago a 10 year old girl was raped by here uncle I think and many Christian were arguing that she should carry it.
Health
my aunt had cancer
Financial
A few cases and I will uses factual stories I have read over the years.

Couple in there late 50's woman gets pregnant it does happen. The couple could not afford a pregnancy and they did not use protection cause they thought they were past that. They considered also the health problems that many children born to people who are much older have, things such as Mental Retardation and Autism. Most people in there 50s and 60s are on some form of blood pressure and heart medicine that they can not take if pregnant. They had an abortion.

16 year old girl gets pregnant and she had an abortion at 2 months in because she could not afford it.

Now the most common reason is financial. But that problem is actually easily solved, TEACH SEX EDUCATION!!! Teach kids about condoms and birth control make it available for them. The countries that do so have almost know abortion. A parent's first job is to make sure there kid has all the necessary information...not just the religious biased info...but all of it...so as to make a wise decision. Your kids will tell you one thing and do another. Kids have sex and there is nothing you can do about it...legally. So what you do is tell your kids they should wait till marriage but if they decide to act on the hormones and do something stupid which all teenagers do...make sure your kid has all the pertinent information. Pregnancy's aside HIV is still a fatal disease, and a condom not only gives you 98% protection from pregnancy but also STD's like HIV.

Woman do not just decide to have abortion there are multiple reasons. And honestly the part of the brain that has consciousness and fills pain does not for till almost 6 months( most people and doctors will not do an abortion at that point except for medical reasons). Most abortions happen in the first 20 weeks. Your acting like its millions and its not its much less, Christians lying about the stats is another problem. There was video of an abortion it was horrifying. you had what looked like a vacuum trying suck up the baby and the baby fight. New flash the fetus was in liquid that was the movement. Next the fetus was not developed enough to feel pain, struggle, or even have any consciousness.

Christians in the United States do not want to teach sex ed, they want to blur the stats and lie about them.

Again countries that teach proper sex education have hardly any abortions. Sex Education is legitimate solution. But the moral sexual views of many Christians is still in bronze iron dark and middle ages.

 

[truefiction1]

Reasons for abortion:
Rape
Girl gang raped in college or high school oh and my favorite this was a few years ago a 10 year old girl was raped by here uncle I think and many Christian were arguing that she should carry it.
Health
my aunt had cancer
Financial
A few cases and I will uses factual stories I have read over the years.

Couple in there late 50's woman gets pregnant it does happen. The couple could not afford a pregnancy and they did not use protection cause they thought they were past that. They considered also the health problems that many children born to people who are much older have, things such as Mental Retardation and Autism. Most people in there 50s and 60s are on some form of blood pressure and heart medicine that they can not take if pregnant. They had an abortion.

16 year old girl gets pregnant and she had an abortion at 2 months in because she could not afford it.

Now the most common reason is financial. But that problem is actually easily solved, TEACH SEX EDUCATION!!! Teach kids about condoms and birth control make it available for them. The countries that do so have almost know abortion. A parent's first job is to make sure there kid has all the necessary information...not just the religious biased info...but all of it...so as to make a wise decision. Your kids will tell you one thing and do another. Kids have sex and there is nothing you can do about it...legally. So what you do is tell your kids they should wait till marriage but if they decide to act on the hormones and do something stupid which all teenagers do...make sure your kid has all the pertinent information. Pregnancy's aside HIV is still a fatal disease, and a condom not only gives you 98% protection from pregnancy but also STD's like HIV.

Woman do not just decide to have abortion there are multiple reasons. And honestly the part of the brain that has consciousness and fills pain does not for till almost 6 months( most people and doctors will not do an abortion at that point except for medical reasons). Most abortions happen in the first 20 weeks. Your acting like its millions and its not its much less, Christians lying about the stats is another problem. There was video of an abortion it was horrifying. you had what looked like a vacuum trying suck up the baby and the baby fight. New flash the fetus was in liquid that was the movement. Next the fetus was not developed enough to feel pain, struggle, or even have any consciousness.

Christians in the United States do not want to teach sex ed, they want to blur the stats and lie about them.

Again countries that teach proper sex education have hardly any abortions. Sex Education is legitimate solution. But the moral sexual views of many Christians is still in bronze iron dark and middle ages.

Reason for abortions:

Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist that wanted to get rid of black people, so she founded an abortion organization, and clinics were built in every black community possible.

Most babies are aborted because couples, or strangers, have consentual intercourse and undesired conception happens as a result. All of the reasons you cited above are in reality uncommon exceptions. They are not the norm.

A human being that has been conceived is alive. To terminate their life is to kill them. This is forbidden and always has been in true Christianity, from the beginning until now. Worldly culture may change, but true Christianity will never change in the value it places on every single human life.

 

[Laconia79]

Reason for abortions: Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist that wanted to get rid of black people, so she founded an abortion organization, and clinics were built in every black community possible.

Republican's say she was racist democrat's say otherwise. She was a birth control activist and nurse I love how Christians equate birth control with abortion lol. And by the way my sister works at planned parenthood she is nurse...there not all about abortion they also teach contraception and healthcare for pregnant woman....not once in the 10 years she has worked there has she or anyone she worked worth encouraged abortion. In her professional opinion it should only be done as a last resort

Most babies are aborted because couples, or strangers, have consensual intercourse and undesired conception happens as a result. All of the reasons you cited above are in reality uncommon exceptions. They are not the norm.

And again teaching SEX EDUCATION LOWERS ABORTIONS...ITS A PROVEN FACT!!!! Teach teenagers about contraception prevents unwanted pregnancies and HIV WHICH STILL KILLS MILLIONS EVERY YEAR. And finally my family has worked in the medical field for over the last 100 years. Nurses doctor's etc. They dealt with abortion and my dad told me almost everyone was for financial reasons and many were over rape or disease.

A human being that has been conceived is alive. To terminate their life is to kill them. This is forbidden and always has been in true Christianity, from the beginning until now. Worldly culture may change, but true Christianity will never change in the value it places on every single human life.

Pregnancy is a medical situation that can cause strokes, heart attacks, depression, and any thing that can kill you HAS TO BE CONCENTUAL!!!!!

 

[GodLovesCats]

Although I don't believe abortion can reasonably be characterized as child sacrifice for the reasons others have stated, it is at a minimum the killing of an "incipient human being" (in the early stages) or "a child" (once the fetus would be capable of surviving outside the womb). The fallacy of the pro-abortion movement is that, until the moment of birth, the fetus/child is simply part of the woman's body. By this bizarre logic, an abortion presents no greater moral issue than the removal of a wisdom tooth or a nose job.

The first fallacy is pro-lifers calling pro-choicers "pro-abortion" like you just did. Pro-choice means what it says: fully supporting every pregnant American citizen's choice to not become a baby's mom nine months later. Anyone who says "pro-choice" and "pro -abortion" are synonymous needs to do some research. No, pro-choicers are not pro-abortion; if you accidentally get pregnant and want to give birth, I will be happy.

There are several different arguments supporting abortion. The idea that fetuses are part of the mother is definitely not what I believe, but they share the placenta, which is the origin of the umbilical cord, so in a way the mom and fetus are not separated despite the genetic differences. This is why a pro-choice slogan is "My BODY My CHOICE." The embryo or fetus is firmly attached to her body and fully contained in it. For a girl or woman who accidentally got pregnant (either via rape or because her own contraception failed) it is extremely important to remember what Jesus said about giving to the poor, lifting up people, kindness, and most of all, loving your neighbor. Since when has throwing a young teenager who was raped and had no reason to use contraception at the time in prison just because there was nothing she could do with the unwanted baby?

Unless one is willing to strip abortion of any moral dimension, I can see no good argument in favor. Like many things today, it strikes me as a Satanically inspired mass delusion.

What is Satanic and delusional can only be people insisting all abortions are sins even if the mother would die without one or does not even know she is pregnant yet when the state deadline passes under the bad assumption 800,000 newborn babies every single year will be adopted regardless of their race, sex, etc. I see no way forcing girls and women to suffer nine full months - plus 18 years if she keeps the baby - only because strangers who never knew her think a zygote should be called a person, despite a Constitutional amendment making that legally impossible. Let me know when you figure out exactly how over 800,000 unwanted babies who are born every year can grow up in one very loving home from their first day to adulthood. Abortions are population control methods because unlike cats and dogs we can't spay and neuter mass numbers of people.

 

[chad kincham]

I have never heard of a woman having an abortion for willy nilly reason. Most abortions happen in the first 2/3 months. The part of of the brain that has consciousness and fells pain does not form till 28/30 weeks or 5/6 months. And at that point it is rarely done unless there are serious medical reasons. But the simple fact is pregnancy has to be a choice, it is a process that endangers the woman's mental and physical health and can lead to death. So a victim of rape should have the option of deciding whether she wants to carry to term or not. Now that does me carte blanche. I would 4 months is long enough to decide if you want to carry or not. But that is a personal belief and I do not have the right nor does anyone have the right to control someone else's medical health. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter when life begins. It doesn't matter whether a fetus is a human being or not. The entire argument is a red herring. A distraction, a subjective and unwinnable argument that could not matter less. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about a fertilized egg or a fetus, or a baby, or a 5-year-old, or a Noble prize winning pediatric oncologist. NOBODY!!! Has the right to use your body, against your will, even to save their life, or the life of another. That's it. That's the argument. You cannot be forced to donate blood or marrow or organs even though thousands die each year, on waiting list. Not even harvest your organs after death without your explicit written pre mortem permission. Denying women the right to abortion means we have less bodily autonomy than a corpse.

Society has the right and obligation to protect its citizens, especially the weak and vulnerable, which is why there are laws that protect them.

Medical science states that life begins at conception.
The unborn are the most vulnerable of all, and should have their life protected as well.
Period.

 

[SkyWriting]

The empire arrested and executed people for worshipping Christ. Christians were anti-abortion at that time also.

Saul/Paul did actually. It was God's will that he did.

 

[SkyWriting]

Society has the right and obligation to protect its citizens, especially the weak and vulnerable, which is why there are laws that protect them.
Medical science states that life begins at conception.
The unborn are the most vulnerable of all, and should have their life protected as well.
Period.

That sounds Christian-y and all.....but

29 Therefore I make a decree,
That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill:
because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.

30 Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, in the province of Babylon.
Bible Gateway passage: Daniel 3 - King James Version

 

[Irkle Berserkle]

The first fallacy is pro-lifers calling pro-choicers "pro-abortion" like you just did. Pro-choice means what it says: fully supporting every pregnant American citizen's choice to not become a baby's mom nine months later. Anyone who says "pro-choice" and "pro -abortion" are synonymous needs to do some research. No, pro-choicers are not pro-abortion; if you accidentally get pregnant and want to give birth, I will be happy.

There are several different arguments supporting abortion. The idea that fetuses are part of the mother is definitely not what I believe, but they share the placenta, which is the origin of the umbilical cord, so in a way the mom and fetus are not separated despite the genetic differences. This is why a pro-choice slogan is "My BODY My CHOICE." The embryo or fetus is firmly attached to her body and fully contained in it. For a girl or woman who accidentally got pregnant (either via rape or because her own contraception failed) it is extremely important to remember what Jesus said about giving to the poor, lifting up people, kindness, and most of all, loving your neighbor. Since when has throwing a young teenager who was raped and had no reason to use contraception at the time in prison just because there was nothing she could do with the unwanted baby?

What is Satanic and delusional can only be people insisting all abortions are sins even if the mother would die without one or does not even know she is pregnant yet when the state deadline passes under the bad assumption 800,000 newborn babies every single year will be adopted regardless of their race, sex, etc. I see no way forcing girls and women to suffer nine full months - plus 18 years if she keeps the baby - only because strangers who never knew her think a zygote should be called a person, despite a Constitutional amendment making that legally impossible. Let me know when you figure out exactly how over 800,000 unwanted babies who are born every year can grow up in one very loving home from their first day to adulthood. Abortions are population control methods because unlike cats and dogs we can't spay and neuter mass numbers of people.

I use pro-abortion quite intentionally. I decline to use the euphemistic "pro-choice" quite intentionally. Those who believe abortion is an appropriate way of dealing with any pregnancy are pro-abortion. I don't think anyone is so insane as to think "pro-abortion" means "wants every fetus to be aborted."

Pro-abortionists always take the discussion to the extreme: WHAT IF THE MOTHER WOULD DIE??? That's not what the abortion debate is about. That's not what tens of millions of abortions are about.

 

[coffee4u]

Elective abortion is called "murder" by members of the pro-life community, and worse still, is claimed by some to be the modern equivalent of "child sacrifice" as practiced in ancient pagan (demonic) religious cultures by some members of the Christian Church.

I've pondered this matter at great length, and have spent some time searching the web for any Christian, scholarly or Theological presentations on this question that present a case that abortion is "not child sacrifice". The only opposition to this notion seems to come from people commenting in forums whose statements and arguments seem to me to bear out a fundamental lack of Scriptural knowledge or anything resembling Spiritual knowledge.

Are there any in here who would like to present a case for abortion, refuting the notion that it is (in the majority of cases) the communal practice of child sacrifice for the sake of worldly benefits? I think there are some who don't believe that there really is a connection/correlation between abortion and ancient pagan practice of child sacrifice. Can this belief be supported Theologically?

Abortion is any practice done with the soul intent to end the unborn's life at any stage.

I have not heard it linked to child sacrifice.

I believe the soul and spirit is there from the moment of conception since God sees our unformed body.
Psalm 139
For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I think there's an obvious one in that the ancient sacrifices actually sacrificed already birthed babies and an abortion can happen at 1 day. So the psychological difference just in the physical presence of a baby can make a big difference.

Many women who get abortions already had kids. Life changes since they got pregnant make caring for at least one more baby impossible for some of them. Do you think they really want to get abortions?

I think there is this idea today that life comes in varying degrees and that some life is not as valuable. We are happy to swat at 100 flies or cockroaches and even mammals like rats. So some think the fetus is not really a viable and valued life form. So I guess in their mind it's not human to begin with so how can it be human sacrifice.

Most abortions happen during the first 12 weeks. Fetal viability begins during the third trimester. (Why do pro-lifers think the human gestational period is 9 months if the unborn do not need that much time?) The only reason women get abortions that late is they have no choice. Either the mom would die, or the fetus, whose medical conditions can be diagnosed in utero, has no chance of being born alive anyway.

But in recent times with technology we are coming to understand they get us and realize that it is hard to draw a line as to human life developing and more people are thinking twice about abortion. So I think if people understood that a fetus is actually part of being human then abortions would go down a lot.

Women know fetuses are humans. They also know their own personal life situations that could call for the need to end their pregnancies prematurely. They know their own bodies. None of us have a right to say if an embryo is human, her own life does not matter anymore. Reducing the number of abortions requires a much better sex education curriculum with no parental opt-outs or religious exemptions, even for Catholic students, along with millions of dollars being spent by the federal government to help poor women whose pregnancies could not happen at a worse time in their lives.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I use pro-abortion quite intentionally. I decline to use the euphemistic "pro-choice" quite intentionally. Those who believe abortion is an appropriate way of dealing with any pregnancy are pro-abortion. I don't think anyone is so insane as to think "pro-abortion" means "wants every fetus to be aborted."

Pro-abortionists always take the discussion to the extreme: WHAT IF THE MOTHER WOULD DIE? That's not what the abortion debate is about. That's not what tens of millions of abortions are about.

"If the mother would die" is only used when people talk about abortions of viable fetuses. A viable fetus is one who would survive independently without technological life support.

"Pro-choice" is the correct term because women's rights supporters do not recommend abortions to them. They support every fertile woman's constitutional right to bodily autonomy (see the 14th Amendment). Of course that does not mean they want more women to have abortions or would endorse abortion. Being in the "pro-choice" camp just means I strongly oppose forcing girls and women to be stay pregnant because of what other people believe about abortion in general with no concern for how pregnancy affects her life. Jesus said, "Do to others as you would have them do to you." If you don't want to be treated like a third-class citizen, don't treat your pregnant neighbor like one.

 

[coffee4u]

Many women who get abortions already had kids. Life changes since they got pregnant make caring for at least one more baby impossible for some of them. Do you think they really want to get abortions?

Who said they have to care for the baby after birth? That is what adoption is there for.

Most abortions happen during the first 12 weeks. Fetal viability begins during the third trimester. (Why do pro-lifers think the human gestational period is 9 months if the unborn do not need that much time?) The only reason women get abortions that late is they have no choice. Either the mom would die, or the fetus, whose medical conditions can be diagnosed in utero, has no chance of being born alive anyway.

Abortion never saves a life. It's soul purpose is to end the life of the unborn. They have a choice.

“There are no conceivable clinical situations today where abortion is necessary to save the life of the mother. In fact, if her health is threatened and an abortion is performed, the abortion increases risks the mother will incur regarding her health.”
—Dr. Bernard Nathanson, American Bioethics Advisory Commission

This belief in the life of the mother is a straw man.

Even planned parenthood know this
“Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal disease such as cancer or leukemia, and if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save the life of the mother.”
—Alan Guttmacher, former Planned Parenthood president

If the mother needs treating then so does the unborn, they should both become the patient and treatment needs to be started to save both because if the mother dies so does the baby so her life is doubly important. But in no case does killing the baby just to kill it help the mother.
This life of the mother nonsense is purely to elect an emotional response but its a fallacy.

The third trimester starts at 27 weeks, premature babies have been saved down to 22 weeks. Their chance is slim obviously but that isn't the point, you can believe that the doctors there did everything they could for those tiny babies. A few years ago the earliest was 24 weeks. As we gain more technology then potentially this could be pushed back further. Like anyone facing death the choice might be for comfort care if there is no chance of life, but there is nothing comforting about abortion. At least the baby can be held and loved as they pass.
Do you know exactly what they do in an abortion? Have you read, seen the pictures and actually got educated on the real details, not some fuzzy non unspecific details designed to make mothers feel better about what they are doing.
They dismember babies further along. Those little legs? They are ripped off, the skull is crushed. Pretending they just 'die' and pass peacefully is fooling ourselves, abortion is nasty and gruesome. Live babies have been born and tossed in the trash to suffocate.

>>>or the fetus, whose medical conditions can be diagnosed in utero, has no chance of being born alive anyway.
I say this next part kindly as I truly hope you have never have and will never experience this, but I have.
killing the baby with diagnosed issues in utero doesn't help the baby or the parents in any way.
I will tell you what does help though, a funeral, hand prints, photos, holding the baby, those sorts of things all help the parents find closure. The same goes for still birth, they know now not to take the baby away. Society doesn't like to talk about this but I will because I've been there and its not something I would wish on anybody.

Women know fetuses are humans. They also know their own personal life situations that could call for the need to end their pregnancies prematurely. They know their own bodies. None of us have a right to say if an embryo is human, her own life does not matter anymore. Reducing the number of abortions requires a much better sex education curriculum with no parental opt-outs or religious exemptions, even for Catholic students, along with millions of dollars being spent by the federal government to help poor women whose pregnancies could not happen at a worse time in their lives.

Woman should have support with their pregnancies. If that isn't in place that's the governments fault.
"Women know fetuses are humans."
"None of us have a right to say if an embryo is human"
might want to decide which one you believe.
A fetus or embryo is not a species, it’s a stage of human development.

 

[truefiction1]

"If the mother would die" is only used when people talk about abortions of viable fetuses. A viable fetus is one who would survive independently without technological life support.

"Pro-choice" is the correct term because women's rights supporters do not recommend abortions to them. They support every fertile woman's constitutional right to bodily autonomy (see the 14th Amendment). Of course that does not mean they want more women to have abortions or would endorse abortion. Being in the "pro-choice" camp just means I strongly oppose forcing girls and women to be stay pregnant because of what other people believe about abortion in general with no concern for how pregnancy affects her life. Jesus said, "Do to others as you would have them do to you." If you don't want to be treated like a third-class citizen, don't treat your pregnant neighbor like one.

It's very naive to think that Planned Parenthood doesn't council women to terminate their pregnancies. That is how they get paid: by performing abortions, and in some cases by providing the products of conception to third parties for fetal tissue research.

And then there is also this: "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:8

 

[GodLovesCats]

Who said they have to care for the baby after birth? That is what adoption is there for.

You want 800,000 unwanted babies to be born each year when there already are thousands of kids in the foster care system. Explain how all of those babies and every older kid nobody wanted will be adopted. It is mathematically impossible to adopt out every unwanted baby. What is your plan to avoid adding to the number of homeless kids? Of course simply not getting pregnant is much better, but contraception is only as good as the person using it. Make one mistake and it will not work. And telling couples to abstain from sex forever never makes sense.

If every form of contraception was perfect, you would have an argument. But there is absolutely no way to make abortion illegal without increasing the number of kids nobody will love or take care of.