What is a born again christian and can I be one?

ToBeLoved

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Nope. Our understanding comes through the congregation of God, aka "the Church." It was that way in the Old Covenant and it is that way in the New Covenant. God works through his community, not through Lone Rangers who get some sort of "revelation" which opposes centuries of established Christian belief that goes back to the Apostles.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Notice that the promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. Says nothing about the individual being immune from deception and deceit. And given the long history of heretics who have come and gone, we can see that this promise indeed is not to individuals.

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The Church is the pillar and ground of truth, not the individual. There is no promise to any individual in the world that he or she will be the pillar and ground of truth. In other words, the Holy Spirit speaks through the Church and not through the delusions of individuals.

The hundreds of differing doctrines of Protestantism, all claiming to be from the Holy Spirit and the Bible and all contradicting each other, is moot testimony to this fact.
I think you misunderstand. It is not prophecy that I believe they were speaking of but reading the BIble through spirit and truth. Their are many spiritual concepts in the BIble.
 
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Light of the East

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I think you misunderstand. It is not prophecy that I believe they were speaking of but reading the BIble through spirit and truth. Their are many spiritual concepts in the BIble.

That still does not answer the question. If all the different Christian denominations swear that they are being led by the Spirit of God to understand the Bible correctly, how's come there are so many different doctrines and teachings? Is God schizophrenic?
 
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ToBeLoved

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That still does not answer the question. If all the different Christian denominations swear that they are being led by the Spirit of God to understand the Bible correctly, how's come there are so many different doctrines and teachings? Is God schizophrenic?
Well. Some denominations do not readily read the Bible and are fairly dependent on in their priests and leaders and tradition rather than the Bible.

Some think the Bible is not all facts but parables and stories that teach concepts more than doctrine.

Some denominations are very works orientated, some are more into holy living.

The Holy Spirit can only teach those who are willing to be taught. Those who feel they already know what it says and have strong opinions rarely hear. Because God rarely will go against someone's free-will if they are not willing to accept something.

I could go into more detail bit for the sake of my typing this on a cell phone screen with an itty bitty keyboard I am keeping it short.
 
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ToBeLoved

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That still does not answer the question. If all the different Christian denominations swear that they are being led by the Spirit of God to understand the Bible correctly, how's come there are so many different doctrines and teachings? Is God schizophrenic?
I believe my reply was specific to your question about prophecy.
 
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Dave B

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You might need to add to your conversion a definite time place and physical experience, which God has provided for you. We talk about being “Born again”, which comes from Nicodemus encounter with Christ (John 3 :1-21):


Being “born again” is what Jesus told Nicodemus he need to do. This requires some thinking, because Jesus does not address the questions or comments that are verbalized, but directs his comments to the persons next step in their personal spiritual development (what is on their heart spiritually). Jesus is not making some general philosophical statement (like Buddha might make) but is always addressing the audience He is talking to. We have to get into the context.

What did Nicodemus need to do next in his spiritual development?

What does Nicodemus need to be doing next? (study the Old Testament, become one of the followers of Jesus right then and there, Confess, repent, etc.)

The first thing Nicodemus might do at least is what he already knows he should do? Is that not where you would start? So what is that?

Since Nicodemus is still part of the Sanhedrin, he would not have been immersed baptized by John’s baptism. That would have got him thrown out of the Sanhedrin.

John’s baptism would have been a hot topic among the religious scholars, yet the answer was obvious and they all know it (remember Jesus using it against them and causing them to quit asking him questions?)

Jesus is not going to blare the answer out to Nicodemus, since Nicodemus knows the answer, but he will make Nicodemus think about it hard, since it would already be on his mind.



Christian water baptism as seen in scripture: Is always adult (there are only two examples that “might include infants” but nothing definite, all the others are adult believers) water immersion to be a physical outward representation of what had or is happening spiritually in the person being baptized. It is mainly to help the individual being baptized to better grasp what is going on, but it can “witness” to others observing the baptism. It has the elements of going down under the water (burying the old man), placing your dependence in another; the person baptizing you (surrendering your life to God), being washed (having your sins washed away), rising out of the water (rising from the dead), and stepping forth out onto the earth (a new person). The person is walking out into the hugs of his new family. It is also a sign of your humility, since it is a humbling act anyone can simple allow someone to do it to them (so not a work) and since humility has been shown in the accept of charity (God’s free gift of undeserving forgiveness) it should just support and add to the memory of that acceptance. To refuse Christian water baptism when it is readily available might mean you are not ready to handle other responsibility like having the indwelling Holy Spirit.

The Western “Christian” Churches are all over the board, but other countries experiencing sever persecution of Christians (Underground churches: China, Southeast Asia, some of India, Iran) are for as far as I can see consistently requiring adult believer immersion baptism. These churches are growing rapidly (estimated at 100 million in China).


Is the real problem with humility, since adult water baptism is a humbling act?

Is the problem with “witnessing” since baptism help other Christians remember what they went through?

The whole “argument” about the “one” baptism having to be “spiritual baptism” so we do not need to (or even shouldn’t) be water immersed is not supported by scriptural examples, since everyone that was “baptized” by the Holy Spirit seems to have also been water baptized.

In an effort to emphasis God’s unconditional (salvation), water baptism of believers has been avoided as a subject. People have “argued” that water baptism is a work and since “works” are not required for salvation, water baptism must be avoided. Most “Christian” religious groups “allow” immersion of believers if they want it.

The problem with this reasoning is adult believer immersion is not something you “do” (work), but is something you allow to be done to you. It is not something “done” as some requirement, but is something you get to do for your sake (to help you) and the sake of others.

To A true Catholic, the Holy Eucharist (Eucharist = thanksgiving) replaces the sacrifice of booth grain and animals. The whole heart of the Catholic Church is the Holy Eucharist and service (the Mass) is all about the Holy Eucharist. Jesus said that unless you eat of my flesh and drink my blood, you shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Catholics believe that the Holy Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus (his death and resurrection that happens for all perpetuity. God is not limited by His creations. He is not confined to the time/space continuum as He created time and space. This is why God can appear everywhere at all times.
 
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Dave B

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Well. Some denominations do not readily read the Bible and are fairly dependent on in their priests and leaders and tradition rather than the Bible.

Some think the Bible is not all facts but parables and stories that teach concepts more than doctrine.

Some denominations are very works orientated, some are more into holy living.

You wold not have a Bible if it were not written from oral history. There was no Bible and New Testament when the Apostles were alive.

The Holy Spirit can only teach those who are willing to be taught. Those who feel they already know what it says and have strong opinions rarely hear. Because God rarely will go against someone's free-will if they are not willing to accept something.

I could go into more detail bit for the sake of my typing this on a cell phone screen with an itty bitty keyboard I am keeping it short.

All 613 commandments have been reduced to 10. The commandments are a doctrine, not a suggestion. They are for us instructions for living with God (1st 3) and living with people. In following the last 7, we also serve God because God is offended when we are not charitable towards each other. (True charity is giving from the heart and not for a tax write offs). One who says they are a Christian and does not live as a Christian (live the Bible's teachings) are Ant-Christ. It is in some of the Epistles.

With respect to Holy Communion. The living bread was manna in the Old Testament. It is the body and blood of Jesus in the appearance, look, smell, taste and feel as bread and wine (to our senses). Jesus said that unless you eat of my flesh and drink my blood, you shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

The Apostles did not use the Bible when they were alive. The Bible did not exist at that time. They taught from the Old Testament Scriptures and from what they had observed or from what they were told (Oral Tradition). They paraphrased events from the Creation of the world which continued to the time of Jesus (he fulfilled the Old Testament). This can be see In acts when Stephen was preaching to the Jews before he was martyred.

The word martyr means to witness - even in persecution and being killed. The same things happened to Saint Peter and Saint Paul as what happened in Jesus's life. They were beaten, imprisoned and killed for standing up (witnessing) for God. This happened to the profits of the Old Testaments as well. (A profit is one who speaks God's words of truth to people).
 
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Light of the East

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Well. Some denominations do not readily read the Bible and are fairly dependent on in their priests and leaders and tradition rather than the Bible.

Some think the Bible is not all facts but parables and stories that teach concepts more than doctrine.

Some denominations are very works orientated, some are more into holy living.

The Holy Spirit can only teach those who are willing to be taught. Those who feel they already know what it says and have strong opinions rarely hear. Because God rarely will go against someone's free-will if they are not willing to accept something.

I could go into more detail bit for the sake of my typing this on a cell phone screen with an itty bitty keyboard I am keeping it short.

I'm sorry, but that is a non-answer. Look, Lutherans use the Bible, read it, quote it, and yet they are polar opposites to Baptists. Fundamentalists don't even agree one among another. Pentecostals think that Baptists are missing the point, while Baptists think that Pentecostals are off their rockers. And SDA's think we are all apostates.

Are you getting my point? It is evading the question to say that some denominations do not read their Bibles. They do, they are trinitarian, which means they are at least and at a minimum Christian, yet they do not agree. Now where is the Truth? Who has it and how do you know?

And, of course, I would tell you that the promise of knowing the Truth was made to the Apostles and their successors who built the Church through violent Roman persecution.
 
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sparow

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Nope. Our understanding comes through the congregation of God, aka "the Church." It was that way in the Old Covenant and it is that way in the New Covenant. God works through his community, not through Lone Rangers who get some sort of "revelation" which opposes centuries of established Christian belief that goes back to the Apostles.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Notice that the promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. Says nothing about the individual being immune from deception and deceit. And given the long history of heretics who have come and gone, we can see that this promise indeed is not to individuals.

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The Church is the pillar and ground of truth, not the individual. There is no promise to any individual in the world that he or she will be the pillar and ground of truth. In other words, the Holy Spirit speaks through the Church and not through the delusions of individuals.

The hundreds of differing doctrines of Protestantism, all claiming to be from the Holy Spirit and the Bible and all contradicting each other, is moot testimony to this fact.

Picking on the Protestants this way is not only off topic but is the kettle calling the pot black. While off topic I would like to comment on a couple of points. Mattt. 16:18, The death that the church prevails against is not the first death that everybody dies but the second death that the wicked only die. The church is the New Jerusalem where Jesus Christ is the cornerstone, the rock on which the church is built, the twelve apostles along with Christ form the foundation of the New Jerusalem and the church , all rocks, metaphorically complete the structure.

Deception is not a sin; unless it involves not keeping the commandments, deception is something that if overcome is rewarded for overcoming.
 
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sparow

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That still does not answer the question. If all the different Christian denominations swear that they are being led by the Spirit of God to understand the Bible correctly, how's come there are so many different doctrines and teachings? Is God schizophrenic?

It is mankind that is schizophrenic, God gives understand to those who listen.
 
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enigmadi

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That still does not answer the question. If all the different Christian denominations swear that they are being led by the Spirit of God to understand the Bible correctly, how's come there are so many different doctrines and teachings? Is God schizophrenic?
No, God is dealing with imperfect humans...we cannot fully know the mind of God....we understand imperfectly so that is why there are differences among humans.
 
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enigmadi

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To A true Catholic, the Holy Eucharist (Eucharist = thanksgiving) replaces the sacrifice of booth grain and animals. The whole heart of the Catholic Church is the Holy Eucharist and service (the Mass) is all about the Holy Eucharist. Jesus said that unless you eat of my flesh and drink my blood, you shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Catholics believe that the Holy Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus (his death and resurrection that happens for all perpetuity. God is not limited by His creations. He is not confined to the time/space continuum as He created time and space. This is why God can appear everywhere at all times.
What happened to the focus on CHRIST? He alone is all we need.
 
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enigmadi

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Salvation is by faith. No works are needed. But eternal life is not salvation. And Jesus says that at the Last Judgment, He will reward with eternal life those who have done good works (Matthew 25: 31-46, Romans 2: 5-10, John 5: 28-29, and Rev. 20: 12-14). So you are half right. Salvation is free and without works. Eternal life is dependent upon what we do.
Salvation alone brings eternal life. We will be judged on what we do or don't do for the Lord after salvation.
 
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enigmadi

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The Bible clearly states "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body." (I Corinthians 6:19-20) Each of us has a role in the Church (which is CHRIST, not some man-determined entity) and He alone is its leader.
 
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enigmadi

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Our mission on earth is to share in God's Heavenly Kingdom and a life with Him for all eternity. Adam and Eve sinned and they became separated from God and became slaves to sin. They suffered death and lost the right to eternal life.

A covenant is not only an agreement and contract with God, but it is making an oath to God. As God as also a partner in a covenant, what God agrees to, He cannot take back. God cannot go back on His word. If He did so He would commit a lie and God cannot go against Himself and His true nature. an example of a covenant is the Sacrament of marriage. It performed by 3 persons with the participation of Jesus, the bride and the groom. It is asking God to verify what you have taken an oath to.

Christianity was founded by Jesus, who was a Jew and with 12 Jews that we call Apostles. It is a Jewish faith that was made available to all humanity. It shares its history with the Israelites.

The Old Testament foreshadows the events of the New Testament. In the Old Testament Book, "Exodus", salvation is foreshadowed with the Israelites, after crossing the Red Sea, the Israelites died of the old life of slavery in Egypt and given a new life of freedom. The men were circumcised as a symbol of accepting a new covenant with God.

The Old Testament was fulfilled by Jesus in the New Testament. With Baptism (through Jesus), we become reconciled to the Father and die from the old life of slavery of sin. We become new creature and given a new eternal life. Baptism is to the new perfected covenant what circumcision was in the Old Testament.

A "born again Christian" is one who accepts Jesus as his Lord and Savior and repents of his/her sins and becomes reborn by entering a new covenant by the Sacrament of Baptism.

A Sacrament is an act or ritual that was performed with Jesus presence while He was on earth. By taking part in these events, Sacraments were instituted.
 
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enigmadi

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Baptism is the public act of proclaiming one's new life in Christ. It is NOT a requirement for salvation, otherwise SALVATION would include "works" which the Bible clearly states is NOT the case. (Ephisians 2:8-9 - "For BY GRACE are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast." Romans 10:9-10 " If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved." 1 Timothy 2:5-6 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people."
 
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AlexDTX

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It is mankind that is schizophrenic, God gives understand to those who listen.
God is not schizophrenic, we are all created to fit in his body for different purposes. The multitude of denominations is, in part, due to the different needs of the body. Cells of the liver do no gather in organs of the lungs. They would be regarded as intruders. Consider congregations and denominations as different organs of Christ's body. Because each organ has different purposes, those in the other organs need to be reminded that the body of Christ needs these different organs. As Paul said, if the whole body were an eye, where then is the hearing? I know he spoke of individuals being different in a single congregation, but it also makes sense to me that congregations would differ for the same reason. The liver is not made up one cell, but thousands.
 
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ToBeLoved

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All 613 commandments have been reduced to 10. The commandments are a doctrine, not a suggestion. They are for us instructions for living with God (1st 3) and living with people. In following the last 7, we also serve God because God is offended when we are not charitable towards each other. (True charity is giving from the heart and not for a tax write offs). One who says they are a Christian and does not live as a Christian (live the Bible's teachings) are Ant-Christ. It is in some of the Epistles.
The problem with that is that Jesus fulfilled the law, which is the 10 commandments.

The 10 Commandments are Biblical doctrine of the Old Covenant of the Old Testament.

After Jesus death, we have the New Covenant, which is based on the New Testament.

So, that is Biblically how the 10 Commandments are relevant.

With Jesus fulfilling ALL of the Law of Moses (10 Commandments) He then left us with two commandments that fulfill all of the law.

Matthew 22:34-40
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’" 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
 
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Light of the East

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No, God is dealing with imperfect humans...we cannot fully know the mind of God....we understand imperfectly so that is why there are differences among humans.


So was that the intention of God - that there be hundreds of different "truths?" Or did Jesus pray in John 17 "...that they all might be one..."

Maybe the problem is not so much in the understanding as it is in the rebellious heart. Maybe its not about understanding, but being willing to obey those over us rather than think we are the ones who know the truth.
 
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Light of the East

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Salvation alone brings eternal life. We will be judged on what we do or don't do for the Lord after salvation.

Yes, salvation gives us the "earnest of our salvation" (Eph. 1: 13) which is the Holy Spirit. He is the earnest or downpayment of eternal life, but we do not get the full amount until after the Judgment.
 
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Light of the East

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God is not schizophrenic, we are all created to fit in his body for different purposes. The multitude of denominations is, in part, due to the different needs of the body. Cells of the liver do no gather in organs of the lungs. They would be regarded as intruders. Consider congregations and denominations as different organs of Christ's body. Because each organ has different purposes, those in the other organs need to be reminded that the body of Christ needs these different organs. As Paul said, if the whole body were an eye, where then is the hearing? I know he spoke of individuals being different in a single congregation, but it also makes sense to me that congregations would differ for the same reason. The liver is not made up one cell, but thousands.

Sir, that is absolute hogwash! Find me anywhere in the Scriptures where there is any more than one congregation of God (aka "church"). There was no such thing in the Old Covenant and there is no such thing in the New Covenant.

And your analogy to the body falls on its face. First of all, Paul was speaking of individual Christians as being the different parts of the Body of Christ. Secondly, the issue goes deeper than various "cells" or "organs" in the Body. There cannot be 8 different "truths" about baptism. There cannot be 12 different "truths" about the Holy Spirit.

When people disagreed with the Church in the beginning, there was a fine name attached to them - heretics. And they were invited to either repent of their heresy or leave the Church. There was no idea of setting up another "denomination." Denominations are a result of the sin and rebellion in the human heart.
 
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