What I Would Like to See

[Stryder06]

My post was replying to your comments based on Heb 9:12.

I didn't say Jesus never entered into the MHP prior to 1844. He did, upon his ascension, to dedicate the heavenly sanctuary and to be inaugurated as our highpriest for the 10 days leading up to Pentecost.

This would be news to me. How do you figure this? Even on earth, the High Priest, when dedicated, wasn't taken into the MHP.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

This would be news to me. How do you figure this? Even on earth, the High Priest, when dedicated, wasn't taken into the MHP.

I'm curious too..

 

[OntheDL]

This would be news to me. How do you figure this? Even on earth, the High Priest, when dedicated, wasn't taken into the MHP.

Styder,

Moses acting as a proxy of Christ, took oil then blood into the Most Holy place. From there he sprinkled every object, every furnishing with oil then blood 7 times. This is described in Ex 30:26-29, 40:9-11, Lev 8:10,11, Ex 29:12, Lev 8:10,11.

These acts typified the anointing of heavenly sanctuary and Jesus presenting his blood before the Father in Rev 5:5,6 (with the dying lamb on the emerald coloured throne in the most holy place). Rev 5:7-10 described the inauguration service.

So Jesus' ascension and entrance into the MHP fulfilled the dedication and inauguration services, also fulfilled the prediction of 70 weeks to 'anoint the Most Holy place ([FONT=&quot]qodesh quodeshim[/FONT])' in Dan 9:24.

The historic Adventists believed in this. Here is some EGW comments

"Christ's ascension to heaven was the signal that His followers were to receive the promised blessing. For this they were to wait before they entered upon their work. When Christ passed within the heavenly gates, He was enthroned amidst the adoration of the angels. As soon as the ceremony was completed, the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in rich currents, and Christ was indeed glorified, even with the glory which He had with the Father from all eternity. The Pentecostal outpouring was Heaven's communication that the Redeemer's inauguration was accomplished. According to His promise, He had sent the Holy Spirit from heaven to His followers, as a token that He had, as priest and king, received all authority in heaven and on earth, and was the Anointed One over His people" (AA 38-39).

Check the dedication service in the sanctuary study thread.

 

[cesty]

My post was replying to your comments based on Heb 9:12.

I didn't say Jesus never entered into the MHP prior to 1844. He did, upon his ascension, to dedicate the heavenly sanctuary and to be inaugurated as our highpriest for the 10 days leading up to Pentecost.

Sorry, I misunderstood your post. We obviously don't agree on everything, but I'm glad you can see that Jesus entered the MHP prior to 1844. As I see it, Hebrews makes that point clear.

I would be interested in looking deeper into your resources for further study. I am intrigued by the dedication/inauguration concept.

 

[OntheDL]

Sorry, I misunderstood your post. We obviously don't agree on everything, but I'm glad you can see that Jesus entered the MHP prior to 1844. As I see it, Hebrews makes that point clear.

I would be interested in looking deeper into your resources for further study. I am intrigued by the dedication/inauguration concept.

Here are few posts you can read

the dedication service study (you can read through the whole thread. It will some time, but the sanctuary doctrine is the foundation for our 2300 days message.)

the chronology of 2300 days

and the daily of the 2300 days

 

[cesty]

Here are few posts you can read

the dedication service study (you can read through the whole thread. It will some time, but the sanctuary doctrine is the foundation for our 2300 days message.)

the chronology of 2300 days

and the daily of the 2300 days

I'm actually very familiar with Adventist theology. But you are the first Adventist I've encountered who openly said that Jesus entered the MHP prior to 1844.

 

[Stryder06]

Styder,

Moses acting as a proxy of Christ, took oil then blood into the Most Holy place. From there he sprinkled every object, every furnishing with oil then blood 7 times. This is described in Ex 30:26-29, 40:9-11, Lev 8:10,11, Ex 29:12, Lev 8:10,11.

These acts typified the anointing of heavenly sanctuary and Jesus presenting his blood before the Father in Rev 5:5,6 (with the dying lamb on the emerald coloured throne in the most holy place). Rev 5:7-10 described the inauguration service.

So Jesus' ascension and entrance into the MHP fulfilled the dedication and inauguration services, also fulfilled the prediction of 70 weeks to 'anoint the Most Holy place ([FONT=&quot]qodesh quodeshim[/FONT])' in Dan 9:24.

The historic Adventists believed in this. Here is some EGW comments

"Christ's ascension to heaven was the signal that His followers were to receive the promised blessing. For this they were to wait before they entered upon their work. When Christ passed within the heavenly gates, He was enthroned amidst the adoration of the angels. As soon as the ceremony was completed, the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in rich currents, and Christ was indeed glorified, even with the glory which He had with the Father from all eternity. The Pentecostal outpouring was Heaven's communication that the Redeemer's inauguration was accomplished. According to His promise, He had sent the Holy Spirit from heaven to His followers, as a token that He had, as priest and king, received all authority in heaven and on earth, and was the Anointed One over His people" (AA 38-39).

Check the dedication service in the sanctuary study thread.

All the more reason why I need to study this subject more. Much appreciated!

 

[OntheDL]

I'm actually very familiar with Adventist theology. But you are the first Adventist I've encountered who openly said that Jesus entered the MHP prior to 1844.

Jesus entered MHP upon ascension for the dedication and inauguration service. Then he began the mediatorial atonement phase of his ministry in the Holy Place ministry until 1844. After Oct 22, 1844, he began the judicial atonement phase of ministry in the MHP.

The sanctuary doctrine hasn't been taught to the Adventists by the church since the Questions on Doctrines controversy in 1960s. And I certainly don't expect non-Adventists to know what we historically believed.

 

[OntheDL]

All the more reason why I need to study this subject more. Much appreciated!

 

[ChrisCarol]

If you understand the work of the priest in the cleansing of the sanctuary and the atonement process, then yes, it does prove that Christ, our High Priest entered into the MH to accomplish this work after the 2300 year prophesy came to an end.

This would all depend on the actual fact of when Christ was crucified. It has been revealed to me in a manor I was not even searching for that Christ could not have died in AD 31 as Ellen White says because it does not coincide with the full moon. Have you any thoughts on this.

Thanks

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

This would all depend on the actual fact of when Christ was crucified. It has been revealed to me in a manor I was not even searching for that Christ could not have died in AD 31 as Ellen White says because it does not coincide with the full moon. Have you any thoughts on this.

Thanks

It's not what Ellen White says, the 70 week prophesy of Daniel marks the death of Christ in AD 31, with His ministry beginning in AD 27 and Stephen being stoned in AD 34 to begin the gospel going to the gentiles.

 

[ChrisCarol]

It's not what Ellen White says, the 70 week prophesy of Daniel marks the death of Christ in AD 31, with His ministry beginning in AD 27 and Stephen being stoned in AD 34 to begin the gospel going to the gentiles.

So who decided that it was wrong that Christ wasn't coming back in 1844 but rather he was moving into the sanctuary?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

So who decided that it was wrong that Christ wasn't coming back in 1844 but rather he was moving into the sanctuary?

Out of the approximately 50,000 people awaiting the return of Jesus, only 50 or so remained true to what they believed they understood from their stufy of the prophesy. With much prayerful study, they realized that their assumption that the sanctuary spoken of at the end of the 2300 years was the earth, was wrong and that it was actually refering to the Heavenly sanctuary and the beginning of the atoning process.

I can't give you, off the top of my head, exactly who was in the group that was involved in this early re-study... I will look it up later for you.

 

[Stryder06]

Jesus entered MHP upon ascension for the dedication and inauguration service. Then he began the mediatorial atonement phase of his ministry in the Holy Place ministry until 1844. After Oct 22, 1844, he began the judicial atonement phase of ministry in the MHP.

The sanctuary doctrine hasn't been taught to the Adventists by the church since the Questions on Doctrines controversy in 1960s. And I certainly don't expect non-Adventists to know what we historically believed.

It is sad that many of our churches have lost focus on this very important doctrine.

 

[cesty]

It is sad that many of our churches have lost focus on this very important doctrine.

My objective throughout this thread was to show that Jesus entered the MHP prior to 1844. I have shown you several passages from Scripture to make that point, but you wouldn't accept it. In fact, in one post you even made a false accusation against me. You said, "If we go off of what the text plainly says, we wouldn't be having this discussion. You have opted to use one translation that best suits your idea, while ignoring the others that oppose it, as well as the explanation that shows the way the author meant for his words to be understood."

I wasn't ignoring what the writer of Hebrews was saying. Rather, you were the one who was being too stubborn to see the truth that I was trying to show you about Jesus entering the MHP prior to 1844. Ironically, when one of your own (another SDA) told you this, you accepted it with little resistance. Yet, even after finally accepting the fact that Jesus entered the MHP prior to 1844, you never admitted you were wrong for arguing that He didn't, nor did you apologize for making a false accusation against me.

 

[OntheDL]

My objective throughout this thread was to show that Jesus entered the MHP prior to 1844. I have shown you several passages from Scripture to make that point, but you wouldn't accept it. In fact, in one post you even made a false accusation against me. You said, "If we go off of what the text plainly says, we wouldn't be having this discussion. You have opted to use one translation that best suits your idea, while ignoring the others that oppose it, as well as the explanation that shows the way the author meant for his words to be understood."

I wasn't ignoring what the writer of Hebrews was saying. Rather, you were the one who was being too stubborn to see the truth that I was trying to show you about Jesus entering the MHP prior to 1844. Ironically, when one of your own (another SDA) told you this, you accepted it with little resistance. Yet, even after finally accepting the fact that Jesus entered the MHP prior to 1844, you never admitted you were wrong for arguing that He didn't, nor did you apologize for making a false accusation against me.

Cesty,

Jesus' entry into the MHP upon ascension in no way nullified our 1844 message. It (the entry) inaugurated Christ' high priesthood for the HP daily ministry and the antitypical day of Atonement service in the MHP.

We are exchanging ideas, not coercing anyone into accepting our views.

 

[cesty]

We are exchanging ideas, not coercing anyone into accepting our views.

I realize that.

 

[Stryder06]

My objective throughout this thread was to show that Jesus entered the MHP prior to 1844. I have shown you several passages from Scripture to make that point, but you wouldn't accept it. In fact, in one post you even made a false accusation against me. You said, "If we go off of what the text plainly says, we wouldn't be having this discussion. You have opted to use one translation that best suits your idea, while ignoring the others that oppose it, as well as the explanation that shows the way the author meant for his words to be understood."

I wasn't ignoring what the writer of Hebrews was saying. Rather, you were the one who was being too stubborn to see the truth that I was trying to show you about Jesus entering the MHP prior to 1844. Ironically, when one of your own (another SDA) told you this, you accepted it with little resistance. Yet, even after finally accepting the fact that Jesus entered the MHP prior to 1844, you never admitted you were wrong for arguing that He didn't, nor did you apologize for making a false accusation against me.

Well let me first apologize for my statement which you considered to be a false accusation. From our exchanges, you left me with the impression that you were simply holding to one translation rather than weighing the evidence I was pointing to. Sometimes I can speak out of turn and if I offended you I do sincerely ask your forgiveness.

In regards to my acceptance of what DL said, it wasn't that it was because he's Adventist that I put up little resistance, was because I understood what he was saying to not mean that Jesus, upon His ascension, entered into the MHP to minister, but to anoint the temple in Heaven so that He could begin His ministry in the sanctuary, beginning in the Holy Place.

DL was not leaning upon Hebrews to make his point, but rather was matching type to antitype in regards to the inauguration from the books of Exodus and Leviticus, and the fulfillment of the prophecy in Daniel 9.

Now you say that I offended you by saying you were ignoring something I was trying to show you, than turn around and say I'm being too stubborn to see the truth. Now am I being stubborn? Indeed I am. Am I being stubborn because I don't want to see the truth? Not at all. What I've been trying to say is that it is a traditional understanding that lead the writers of certain translations to interpret the word to mean Most Holy place. Were it not for those translations, we wouldn't have anything to argue over.

In a way that was possibly not the best, I was hoping you would simply see that the author of Hebrews, when speaking of the MHP, used a very specific phrase, as opposed to when he spoke about the sanctuary or holy place. The entirety of Hebrews is about exalting Christ ministry as our Heavenly High Priest. The book puts Christ in the actual sanctuary, but it does not seek to place Him in any specific compartment.That has been accomplished through the workings of men, based off of their traditions.

 

[cesty]

In regards to my acceptance of what DL said, it wasn't that it was because he's Adventist that I put up little resistance, was because I understood what he was saying to not mean that Jesus, upon His ascension, entered into the MHP to minister, but to anoint the temple in Heaven so that He could begin His ministry in the sanctuary, beginning in the Holy Place.

The whole thing constitutes a ministerial process.

 

[Stryder06]

The whole thing constitutes a ministerial process.

Our 1844 message however is specific to Christ moving into the final phase of ministry within the MHP. This was not taking place. DL's explanation to me is assuredly a first. If his statement is correct (not saying that it isn't), than Christ upon His ascension was essentially given the right to being ministry as our High Priest. This ministry would begin in the Holy Place. Not the Most Holy Place.