What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

[squint]

The Law is not spiritual to those who are not in the spirit it can be nothing but a carnal thing.

I make the same observation to those who only see pigs, shrimp and a building to show up in on Saturday.

The Law is spiritual. And Satan is prompted into actions by same.

Spiritual principle 101 of the LAW.

Any who pick up the Law or Gods Words in general should be familiar enough with the internal workings of the tempter. If they do not see this, they are blinded by same to the obvious and truthful conclusion.

and no, the tempter will not be legal, never was legal, never will be legal. Same can be said 'under Grace.'

I make the points of observation primarily to NOT have to deny Gods Words. Any of them. There is no need or cause to go there and even if we do, the law continues to work adversely within us because of the resistance movement of the anti-Christ spirit(s.)

They are very real matters. To any who walk 'in the Spirit' they will know and speak truthfully.

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[Rev Randy]

Is your position that because we may live perfectly by the Ten Commandments from now on we will still be sinner so it make no sense obeying God in that respect?

I doubt you'll need to worry about living the Ten perfectly. Although you push it pretty enthusiastically.
Once you learn how to keep the Sabbath properly, let me know. I may listen then. But as for now, it's just a "do as I say but not as I do" thing.

 

[SwordFall]

I find it disturbing the amount of Christians who undermine the Ten Commandments, the basic fundamentals of morality.

 

[from scratch]

I find it disturbing the amount of Christians who undermine the Ten Commandments, the basic fundamentals of morality.

I find it very disturbing the number of people calling themselves Christians who are willing to follow anything or one except the Holy Spirit.

 

[from scratch]

I think that part of the process of salvation is admitting that one is sinful. One can consider that via the Law or otherwise as people in the Bible knew they sinned prior to the inception of the Law itself and there are people who without knowledge of the Law accept Jesus on the basis they are convicted of being a sinner via the Holy Spirit.
If one truly believes they are saved they will be sensitive to sin and attempt to try their best to reduce and even eliminate it from their lives. Those who are saved do not have to rely upon the Law to equate sin but focus on how they are treating others either in love to them with God in mind or selfishness for essentially worshiping their own desires (sins).

In other words Christians don't have to use the Law as a standard at all, it can be useful but falls way short of what Jesus teaches us. Those who use the Law only to combat sin are limiting their walk with God they may never go beyond what the Law doesn't inspire in those who adhere to it... Faith.

Another of the aspects in this argument of law or grace is the general difference of the attitude between them. Does anyone else see this?

 

[from scratch]

The Ten Commandments were given to all in the Land. The unbelievers included. The reason God had the Sabbath Day included was because that nation was a theocracy. It was to produce order on the day of worship for the benefit of those who did believe. Not all who lived in the Land were believers. No one was to steal. No one was to murder. No one was to commit adultery. Those commands have nothing to do with spiritual worship. It was for all.

I don't think your idea will stand up with the Bible.

 

[Elder 111]

The Ten Commandments were Civil Law in the Land of Israel. Not spiritual law.Israel was a theocracy at that time. So? If you want to live in the land? You must observe the Sabbath Day with all.

The Ten Commandments makes for good Law as far as guaranteeing freedom and liberty in a land. No need for the Sabbath command today because only Israel was a theocracy.

Forgive the expression, but are you a madman? Now please. How can the Ten commandments be a civil law? Thou shall not Covet. Explain how that works as a civil law? That is an act done in the heart, how would you know if someone did or was doing it? Worshiping God is a heart condition not Just and outward act. This is absolute nonsense!

 

[Elder 111]

No... the Sabbath wasn't ever about a day of worship. There is nothing in the Bible that says one is to worship on the Sabbath at all. I believe the Sabbath was made for two reasons:
1)to force people to rest
2)in forcing people to rest they had no excuse to ignore God on that day hence some also decided to worship God then

I believe after being enslaved for over 400 years working probably sometimes every day of the week without rest God in order to show his power gave them a permanent day off and made it so even an evil king of Israel couldn't force people to work on that day he would have to publically defy the whole of Isreal's priesthood publically.

It is not based on what you believe. It is what God says that counts. Isaiah 58: 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Now how would you honour God if not in worship?

 

[Elder 111]

The Law is not spiritual to those who are not in the spirit it can be nothing but a carnal thing... do this do that mindlessly keeping commandments with no thought about love or faith involved in it all.

For those who adhere to the Law and use it as their standard Satan loves to condemn them via the use of it. For those who refuse to be put under the Law Satan has to condemn them directly via each sin and the Holy Spirit convicts them also of such until one decides to resolve the matter and confess such sins and seeking forgiveness of those sins have faith in that forgiveness then ignore Satan about such sins from then on.
Under the Law one much procure beasts to kill to cover sins for such infractions. The Law set a standard so high that nobody could rightfully boast about keeping it and assume they were righteous by it alone. It showed the Jews that they were nowhere near as good as God and Jesus proved he was God by being the only one who could keep it.

The is total nonsense! This is foolish behavior. Where is the scripture? Of course there is none.
There is no need for speculation with God's word. That seems to be as the result of not taking God's word as it is or not knowing it.

 

[from scratch]

It is not based on what you believe. It is what God says that counts. Isaiah 58: 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Now how would you honour God if not in worship?

Yes based on What God says -

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

[Elder 111]

Yes based on What God says -

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

I am glad you qouted this. Then look and seen that the same law will be written on the heart not removed. Why would God place something in our hearts that He does not want the Holy Spirit to teach us or for us to keep?

 

[Sophrosyne]

It is not based on what you believe. It is what God says that counts. Isaiah 58: 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Now how would you honour God if not in worship?

The Sabbath command has nothing to do with worship.... find a verse where the Sabbath was given about it being about worshiping on that day.... God didn't say WORSHIP on the Sabbath and that is what YOU believe which you yourself here say "It is not based upon what YOU believe". God didn't say it... so it doesn't COUNT. One can DO WHAT GOD says to do on the Sabbath IF and ONLY IF one is SUPPOSED to keep it an then it will be honoring God.
You dishonor God by putting words in his mouth he never spoke.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The is total nonsense! This is foolish behavior. Where is the scripture? Of course there is none.
There is no need for speculation with God's word. That seems to be as the result of not taking God's word as it is or not knowing it.

The Bible is full of scripture that I won't bother with showing you because you would have to read Paul and WANT to HEAR what he is saying to equate the truth he speaks.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Yes based on What God says -

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

He doesn't believe this..... just throws it out like he throws Paul's word to the wind when they don't agree with him.

 

[GenemZ]

Forgive the expression, but are you a madman? Now please. How can the Ten commandments be a civil law?

Was it only for believers? No. It was civil law for those who chose to live in a theocracy.

Thou shall not Covet. Explain how that works as a civil law?

Is it a spiritual law? No. Do not steal is only for the believer? Do not murder was only for believers? Do not commit adultery?

That is an act done in the heart, how would you know if someone did or was doing it? Worshiping God is a heart condition not Just and outward act. This is absolute nonsense!

Do not covet was a foundational condition to be followed... otherwise we would find stealing, murder, and adultery.


OK... it might be that I picked a wrong term, possibly. What kind of law would you call it?

Remember, this was a theocracy, unlike governments we have today in the free world. No one was to worship another God in Israel. That does not mean the unbeliever had to worship God. Just not practice paganism in the Land.

 

[GenemZ]

Forgive the expression, but are you a madman? Now please. How can the Ten commandments be a civil law? Thou shall not Covet. Explain how that works as a civil law? That is an act done in the heart, how would you know if someone did or was doing it? Worshiping God is a heart condition not Just and outward act. This is absolute nonsense!

The laws given at Mount Sinai (what is popularly called the Mosaic laws) are usually divided into three categories: the ceremonial, the civil and the moral. The ceremonial laws are those which are connected with the Old Testament worship at the tabernacle and temple. They include those regulations concerning all types of animal and grain sacrifices and temple rituals performed by the Levitical priests. The civil laws are those which are particularly connected with the government and maintenance of the theocratic nation that Israel once was. As the civil laws of the theocratic nation of Israel, they were unique and applicable only to Israel—despite many who insist on implementing the ancient Jewish civil laws in modern non-theocratic nations. The uniqueness of these civil laws stems from the fact that Israel was a theocratic nation in which the state and the church were united. Thus we see in the Mosaic laws many penal codes imposing corporal punishments upon "religious" and moral offenses as well as criminal offenses. We also see provisions made for the executive branch of the government to oversee cultic practices and even to initiate religious reforms. Both the priesthood and the imperial court had the Mosaic laws as their common standards.
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link: V13N1A3

 

[Elder 111]

The Sabbath command has nothing to do with worship.... find a verse where the Sabbath was given about it being about worshiping on that day.... God didn't say WORSHIP on the Sabbath and that is what YOU believe which you yourself here say "It is not based upon what YOU believe". God didn't say it... so it doesn't COUNT. One can DO WHAT GOD says to do on the Sabbath IF and ONLY IF one is SUPPOSED to keep it an then it will be honoring God.
You dishonor God by putting words in his mouth he never spoke.

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
You know what custom mean? Even Jesus when every Sabbath to Church. You want a better example or is He good enough for you?

 

[Elder 111]

Was it only for believers? No. It was civil law for those who chose to live in a theocracy.



Is it a spiritual law? No. Do not steal is only for the believer? Do not murder was only for believers? Do not commit adultery?




Do not covet was a foundational condition to be followed... otherwise we would find stealing, murder, and adultery.


OK... it might be that I picked a wrong term, possibly. What kind of law would you call it?

Remember, this was a theocracy, unlike governments we have today in the free world. No one was to worship another God in Israel. That does not mean the unbeliever had to worship God. Just not practice paganism in the Land.

Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

 

[Rick Otto]

Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

So by saying not to covet, He's saying, 'Don't even THINK about stealing."

 

[Rev Randy]

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
You know what custom mean? Even Jesus when every Sabbath to Church. You want a better example or is He good enough for you?

I know well what custom means. Do you realize that those of Israel worshiped in the Temple and not in a synagogue? That is a school for learning not worship.