What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

GenemZ · Dec 21, 2013

squint said:
If a person claims they have no internal temptation after salvation, that it is not of the tempter and not evil and defiling, what do you expect me to say?

I see otherwise.

We do not always need Satan's help in being tempted. I am not sure you have covered that aspect..

James 1:12-14

Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, I am being tempted by God; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

squint · Dec 21, 2013

genez said:
We do not always need Satan's help in being tempted. I am not sure you have covered that aspect..

James 1:12-14

Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, I am being tempted by God; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

Would it really matter to you if you can just blame man only?

Could it be that if the tempter tempts anyone it is 'their own' burden to bear?

GenemZ · Dec 21, 2013

squint said:
Would it really matter to you if you can just blame man only?

Could it be that if the tempter tempts anyone it is 'their own' burden to bear?

Do have demon problems?

squint · Dec 21, 2013

genez said:
Do have demon problems?

Satan is only external to you.

When you see him look me up and we'll talk.

shturt678s · Dec 21, 2013

genez said:
Jack, keep in mind. When the term 'Satan' was used it was speaking of demons, not Satan himself. Very few people got the direct attention of Satan. Judas is one who is mentioned to have had personal contact with Satan. Almost all the others were contacts with demons. Of course, during his time of temptation in the wilderness, it was Satan himself that appeared to Jesus. Someone here has been claiming that Satan personally tempts us. There is a need to learn how the term was used back then. Once that is established, I think this conflict of words can cease.

Let's look at Lk.11:20, "...expel the demons,...." 'this is the correct view of Jesus expulsion of demons and of the conclusion to be drawn therefrom. Back of this conclusion, as all that preceded shows, there lies the logical dilemma: either a connection with God or with Satan contextually has already been exploded as being absurd and impossible; hence the connection with God alone is left. Dealing not with Satan personally?

Lk.11:21, 22, (At the last temptation even before the Cross, ie, Satan defeated) illustration that is transparent, yet a a syllogism underlies the illustration, and its obvious application to Jesus and Satan in his person also contextually here. The tertium in the illustration is the fact that complete defeat must precede the act of plundering - - God's kingdom must have come before demonics could be liberated as Jesus was liberting them.

Major premise: Only complete victory allows plundering at will; minor: Jesus plunders Satan at will; conclusion: Jesus achieved complete victory over Satan at the last tempation.

I guess this is where we begin to agree to disagree again,

Jack

btw Satan conquered at the Cross, and not just defeated.

shturt678s · Dec 21, 2013

squint said:
Satan is only external to you.

When you see him look me up and we'll talk.

Satan is about to be loosed, obviously, ie, Rev.20:7.

Satan might be looking you up after Rev.20:7, ie, I'm going into hiding,

Old Jack looking for a hiding place, ie, any ideas?

Elder 111 · Dec 21, 2013

VictorC said:
I detailed why your appeal to Exodus 16:4 doesn't support your contention that there is a 'sabbath test' that we're bound to, and your response was silence. Both before that and in a recent post I showed others how your language aligns with what Ellen White wrote, which is nowhere found in Scripture. She "made up the word of God", and you merely repeated her claim.

What you haven't done is support your 'sabbath test'. If you went through the exercise for yourself, you would discover Ellen's claim to be ficticious, which is why so many of us reject her claim of inspiration.

You are an Ellen White student but I am talking about the Bible.
2 Timothy 3:
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Ex 16 is for us as with all other scripture. This is before mount Sinai. God said
"that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no". Verse 4 last part.

What did He prove them with? The Sabbath. It was and is the test.
28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
You are the very one that told me the Commandments did not exist until Sinai. So using your same argument, God is saying that if they did not keep the Sabbath they will not keep the rest that was yet to come.
Just like today, the only commandment that present a real problem is the Sabbath. As Christians, how much of a problem do we have with breaking any of the other nine. Have an idol. No! serve God only. No! Lies, covet, adultery, how about honoring father and mother? Regardless as to what we think about the law we will always expect a christian to live within those rules. But the Sabbath is attacked day and night. For some person to even mention the Sabbath brings them under severe criticism. It is the test! The one area in the 10 that is a problem.

Elder 111 · Dec 21, 2013

from scratch said:
Evil thoughts don't defile anyone until they take possession of them by allowing them into their heart.

Proverbs 23:
7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

GenemZ · Dec 21, 2013

squint said:
Satan is only external to you.

When you see him look me up and we'll talk.

He operates externally.... unless you are demon possessed. Only Judas was said to have Satan enter into him. He can influence in a way that effects you internally.That is called demon influence. Pentecostals experience that phenomena in spades. But? To have Satan inside you? There are billions of people on earth. Satan is not omnipresent. Besides, he has much more important things to do that to have to deal with us nit wits. For us? He delegates demons to try to hassle our walk.

And, add to that. Satan and his angels are without any physical body. They are spirit. When they fell God denied them manifesting any physical form in the material world. You can not see them. We can only see angels. And, that would be if they materialized.

Enjoy your demons.

VictorC · Dec 21, 2013

Elder 111 said:
You are an Ellen White student but I am talking about the Bible.
2 Timothy 3:
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Ex 16 is for us as with all other scripture. This is before mount Sinai. God said
"that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no". Verse 4 last part.

What did He prove them with? The Sabbath. It was and is the test.
28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
You are the very one that told me the Commandments did not exist until Sinai. So using your same argument, God is saying that if they did not keep the Sabbath they will not keep the rest that was yet to come.
Just like today, the only commandment that present a real problem is the Sabbath. As Christians, how much of a problem do we have with breaking any of the other nine. Have an idol. No! serve God only. No! Lies, covet, adultery, how about honoring father and mother? Regardless as to what we think about the law we will always expect a christian to live within those rules. But the Sabbath is attacked day and night. For some person to even mention the Sabbath brings them under severe criticism. It is the test! The one area in the 10 that is a problem.

Making a mistake once is normal - but repeating the same mistake after it has been pointed out to you suggests incompetence or deceit. Exodus 16:4, which shows the origin of the sabbath roughly a month before the covenant from Mount Sinai codified it, does not support the untenable claims that you've made on this thread:

Elder 111 said:
God says keep the Sabbath.

Elder 111 said:
The Sabbath is the test. The tree in the mist of the Garden. That person have to decide on.

Neither one of these has any Biblical support.

Sophrosyne · Dec 21, 2013

VictorC said:
Making a mistake once is normal - but repeating the same mistake after it has been pointed out to you suggests incompetence or deceit. Exodus 16:4, which shows the origin of the sabbath roughly a month before the covenant from Mount Sinai codified it, does not support the untenable claims that you've made on this thread:

Neither one of these has any Biblical support.

I often wonder if they had obeyed God regarding the "pre" sabbath that God wouldn't have demanded such harshness on the one given later.

GenemZ · Dec 21, 2013

Sophrosyne said:
I often wonder if they had obeyed God regarding the "pre" sabbath that God wouldn't have demanded such harshness on the one given later.

That was a good point! Thanks. Got me thinking.

VictorC · Dec 21, 2013

Sophrosyne said:
I often wonder if they had obeyed God regarding the "pre" sabbath that God wouldn't have demanded such harshness on the one given later.

The provocation recorded in Numbers 14 came after the periodic sabbath was Spoken into existence, so I don't know exactly what you're referring to. Never the less, I prefer not to enter into speculation, and letting one's wonder wander too far isn't always expedient.

Sophrosyne · Dec 21, 2013

VictorC said:
The provocation recorded in Numbers 14 came after the periodic sabbath was Spoken into existence, so I don't know exactly what you're referring to. Never the less, I prefer not to enter into speculation, and letting one's wonder wander too far isn't always expedient.

I was talking about them gathering mana twice as much one day so they would have some for the Sabbath day

MamaZ · Dec 22, 2013

Elder 111 said:
What is the way of God? Is it not defined in the Ten Commandments? Is not the sin that the Holy Spirit keep me from, breaking the Ten commandments? If not please state what it is, what is sin.

Sin is falling short of the Glory of God.. For God is love and those who know God have His love in them. For one who does not love does not know God.. Pretty simple. It is not breaking a rule that sin abides it is in doing things that does not show the Love Christ has shown us that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us... Rules will be broken. Have been broken and will always be broken. It is human nature. Even speed limit rules are broken. Even rules to be quiet in a library are broken. This is why we are to walk in His Love and not in rules that cannot be abided by.. So many try to walk,, and put on believers rules that they themselves cannot even keep.. It is called pharasee and hypocrites in scripture. Jesus speaks plainly about this.. I follow Christ. Not rules and regulations that keep one thinking they are better than because they try to keep the rules. I follow a living and Loving God who proved to the world that only one could keep the rules.. He did. He fulfilled them. It is finished. We are in Him forgiven and set free from rules and regulations.. For now we have Him that indwells us and causes us to love as we should.. But when we sin, and not love as He has does He is just and faithful to forgive us of our sin and cleanse us from all unrightousness.. Two rules.. Love and Love.. He even gives us His love in our hearts to walk in these rules so it is a win win situation..

squint · Dec 22, 2013

shturt678s said:
Satan is about to be loosed, obviously, ie, Rev.20:7.

Satan might be looking you up after Rev.20:7, ie, I'm going into hiding,

Old Jack looking for a hiding place, ie, any ideas?

It would appear to me that you veered off the road while reading an end times novel with that view Jack.

Sorry

squint · Dec 22, 2013

genez said:
He operates externally.... unless you are demon possessed.

Utter nonsense. Temptation starts in the thought realm, is NOT 'possession' and is of the tempter.

Only Judas was said to have Satan enter into him.

Sure. And Satan speaking from Peter's lips means satan was standing on top of his head on the outside where everybody could see him.

Moving on...

s

MamaZ · Dec 22, 2013

Satan has no power over those who are believers. He has been defeated and only goes around and accuses the brethren. He is nothing but a toothless roaring lion.

squint · Dec 22, 2013

MamaZ said:
Satan has no power over those who are believers. He has been defeated and only goes around and accuses the brethren. He is nothing but a toothless roaring lion.

Look, everyone deals with temptation. Whether a person believes or not is irrelevant. Paul showed us all he had temptation in his flesh and that his mind had every manner of concupiscence within, meaning 'sexual' temptations.

Temptation is of the tempter, transpires within and is so prompted by SATAN, the tempter resisting Gods Words. Particularly Gods Commandments.

Sin is in fact 'of the devil.' No man will ever be legally obedient because of the presence of the TEMPTER. Those who think they are are only blinded to the fact of the tempters presence. That is why they 'struggle' endlessly with the LAW, always trying to be good and to do good and always failing and repenting.

When they STOP trying to make the TEMPTER obedient they will quit being legalists. Or they simply become hypocrites, thinking they are legal when that is not even possible.

s

GenemZ · Dec 22, 2013

squint said:
Utter nonsense. Temptation starts in the thought realm, is NOT 'possession' and is of the tempter.

Yes... Satan is external. Just like when you speak to someone and your words enter his mind, in the spiritual realm, fallen angels can speak to your mind on a different level than through the ears. Thoughts can enter your mind. That is why we are commanded to cast down all vain imaginings. Of course, there is no need to tell you where that is written. You know the passage I speak of.

Sure. And Satan speaking from Peter's lips means satan was standing on top of his head on the outside where everybody could see him.

And, how do you get your negative bitterness way of thinking? Something enters your mind and you spew it out in your posts. You are not even aware of its source because you are antagonistic to the Word of God naturally.

Peter was receiving a thought in his mind that he agreed with as if it were his own. That is why Jesus had to rebuke Peter as to make Peter aware that what appeals to human reasoning is not what God works with. It was Peter's training course in becoming aware that the demonic realm can easily used people if they do not know the Word of God as it should be known. Of course, you know that. I know you do.

What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

What do you understand about the Ten Commandments?

The ten Commandments belong to God

The Ten Commandments belong to Moses.

The principles of the Ten commandments are restricted to a time period.

The principles of the Ten Commandments are/were for all times.

Jesus/God wrote the Ten Commandments.

Moses wrote the Ten Commandments

All men will be judged by the principles of the Ten Commandments.

Only the Jews will be judge by the principles of the Ten Commandments.

The principles of the Ten Commandments is what Jesus meant will not change. Mat 5:17-19.

A Christians can be saved without living up to the principles of the Ten Commandments

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