What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

[from scratch]

The conclusion of the scripture [inclusive of law] seems exceptionally clear to me:

Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Why do you ignore our current position spoken about in the passage you quoted? I bolded and colored in blue for you so you know exactly what I'm talking about.

There is no reason to discount either statement of fact. Not making that same conclusion with regards to being concluded under sin would be lying against both fact and scripture statement of such a fact in favor of discounting that and only taking the second portion as fact.

If all still continue in the same state, what was Jesus saying changed? Being born again is change. You contend we're still the same. What does Paul say - new man? Isn't this change of state of being? Are you confused about what really has taken place by some physical manifestations or a personal problem (thorn in the flesh)?

Doesn't compute nor produce a truthful statement.

Doesn't mean sins won't be judged either. The notion that is promoted with many is that by (whatever measure is used, justification, grace, forgiveness, repentance, etc) they conclude that it is 'just-as-if-I've-never sinned' and that is simply not a truthful conclusion.

The sins of the believer have already been judged.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

There is no understanding that can honestly make us conclude we 'have' (present tense) no sin. The instant we make that conclusion we are not truthful/honest to the measure of 1 John 1:8 and therefore lying and not in TRUTH.

So my question is - is John saying we live a lifestyle of sin? I couldn't agree to that. Verse 10 says if we sin not if we practice sin as a lifestyle. It is also in the passed tense.

Which equation means sin without judgment. I find that to be a rather hollow conclusion, particular measured with the fact that we do reap what we sow regardless of our begging to God after the fact. To say otherwise is to equate sin without consequences, which is where many end up landing.

Yes our body will reap the consequences of its sin as already promised the sentence will be carried out.

Jesus was pretty clear that the thought of sin is sin, even if not externalized, that it is evil and that it is defiling. What would you propose to avoid that fact set? And secondly, why would we say otherwise if those fact sets are facts?

Yes He did. What thoughts is Jesus talking about? Is it the temptations placed on us or is the thoughts we have possession of?

I find little use for lying or hypocrisy about these matters as there is even deeper depths of 'issues' that we are also clearly warned of, as in being turned into a lying hypocrite.

I tire of you insisting that temptations are our thoughts.

It might seem that honesty is the forthright approach, first and foremost.

Sin without consequences or judgment is not a presentation of scripture that I'm aware of. There is an avalanche of scripture making the exact opposite conclusion.

That still does not equate to sin without consequence or sin without judgment.

Indeed it would seem so. The box canyon on these matters is purposefully designed to instill close examinations of the facts.

The same man (Paul) who said sin not also claimed to be the chief of sinners after salvation, so again, there is a purposefully set dichotomy in play.

Your combination of facts is an effort to prove something not intended by their author. This is commonly referred to as twisting the Scripture.

That conclusion would not appear sufficient to run the gauntlet of understandings either:

1 John 3:
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Then by your understanding there is not such thing as redemptive salvation. John isn't saying one never sins if they've been redeemed. His intention is the practice of sin as a lifestyle. Read the whole book for overall context.

I fully accept the conclusion of scripture and the correct and rightful condemnation of sin by either law or grace, just as Paul showed us as how Jesus Measures, here for example:

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

So is that verse talking about what the law does in us or in Jesus? Again read the whole book for context. I think the chapter might suffice in this case, though.

That conclusion is the conclusion of Jesus regarding sin in the flesh. There are no excuses available to dodge that quite rightful conclusion of condemnation to sin. We certainly aren't going to be sliding into home plate laden with same attached to us and claiming otherwise when His positional statement is already on record.

Sin isn't attached to the Christian.

There is no use lying about having sin. About the fact that evil thoughts being evil and defiling us. About sin being condemned. About sin having consequences.

These are Rock Solid scriptural facts. No 'truthful' dodging is available. Falling headlong into being made into a lying hypocrite is NOT a credible solution.

s

No you've misused proof texts divorced from context dessiring to prove a false fact.

 

[from scratch]

What are you talking about?



I said the following:
Did you not know? Paul plainly states....

Galatians 2:20

I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I
that live, but Christ living in me: and that life which I now
live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son
of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.


Romans 6:6

knowing this, that our old man was crucified with
Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that
we should no longer be slaves of sin.
​

That is so hard to grasp for you?

If I did not know any better.. I would swear that you feel its your duty to obfuscate and to suppress truth. Instead.. I will just chalk it up as a bad case of presumptuous dogmatism. I ask you. Are you determined to obscure what is to be plainly seen by anyone willing to read (and believe) what the Word holds out for us to take?

May God have mercy.

 

[from scratch]

No amount of ontology should lead us to lying Jack.

If Paul derived this faithful fact, worthy of acceptance about himself after salvation it is unlikely any of us can measure any differently:

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Fancy dancing is not going to avoid an honest conclusion NOR is it deceived to speak honestly and arrive at the same place Paul did above. Between me and you I consider it a lie to say otherwise.

s

So we're lying if we don't agree with you. How Now everyone please fall in line.

 

[squint]

Why do you ignore our current position spoken about in the passage you quoted? I bolded and colored in blue for you so you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Any conclusion that says you are currently the entire Perfection of Jesus Christ is a delusion of religion. Not that I haven't seen it before.

If all still continue in the same state, what was Jesus saying changed? Being born again is change. You contend we're still the same.

I don't contend anything. I read and accept what the Word teaches.

The WORD, the LAW, the COMMANDS are not just about MAN.

Jesus spoke LAW to Satan as well. So trying to make LAW issues only issues about MAN is a false approach.

MAN in case you hadn't noticed is also and continues to be 'subject to temptation' which is DEMONIC and is prompted by the WORD, the LAW coming to our MINDS. Thereby evil thoughts, tempting thoughts come in, are evil, are defiling. No man keeps this from happening because....

it's not just about MAN.

You can rosy up any scenario you want about yourself as the supposed new man. I am not required to lie about being tempted, about that being by the tempter and about the tempter being provoked by the LAW.

The attempt to make LAW only about sinless you doesn't work or compute in the face of the obvious.

Wallowing in a non-existing fantasy state is worthless. We have our HOPE, but it is a HOPE that is in WAITING.

s

 

[from scratch]

A good place to provide an analogy. Imagine that during the Ford Administration, the penalty for murder was death. Imagine during a subsequent administration, say Carter*, kinder, gentler terms and conditions are passed. Correction and rehabilitation, empowerment to rejoin society with new skills and resources.

Thus you could say that the first administration was law and the second was grace. Paul frequently uses the word "Law" to differentiate the result of believing God before the Cross, from the result obtained under the aegis of the Spirit of Grace.

To summarise, requirements are the same, compliance is obligatory, future judgment is in place and in view, but ability to comply has been gifted. IOW, Paul differentiates between how man's actions were administered before the Cross, Law, and how it was administered after, Grace.

*I'm aware it was George Bush who coined the phrase, "A kinder, gentler administration"!

Doesn't answer my question.

 

[shturt678s]

Any conclusion that says you are currently the entire Perfection of Jesus Christ is a delusion of religion. Not that I haven't seen it before.



I don't contend anything. I read and accept what the Word teaches.

The WORD, the LAW, the COMMANDS are not just about MAN.

Jesus spoke LAW to Satan as well. So trying to make LAW issues only issues about MAN is a false approach.

MAN in case you hadn't noticed is also and continues to be 'subject to temptation' which is DEMONIC and is prompted by the WORD, the LAW coming to our MINDS. Thereby evil thoughts, tempting thoughts come in, are evil, are defiling. No man keeps this from happening because....

it's not just about MAN.

You can rosy up any scenario you want about yourself as the supposed new man. I am not required to lie about being tempted, about that being by the tempter and about the tempter being provoked by the LAW.

The attempt to make LAW only about sinless you doesn't work or compute in the face of the obvious.

Wallowing in a non-existing fantasy state is worthless. We have our HOPE, but it is a HOPE that is in WAITING.

s

Before one is "born again" God's way, ie, you, I, and others have diverse ways, and underwent "born anew" His valid one Way, then one is a sinner but no longer under the deadly damning power of sin.

Living my life between reality and fantasy, ie, the time I was born into, sinner Jack

btw hope this helps a little

 

[from scratch]

QF one of the more absurd statements lately.

Yep no context and this divorced statement makes it look like I practice sin as a lifestyle. Such things are only intended to destroy showing a true nature.

 

[from scratch]

Seriously? Come on now. This is pretty basic Bible.

Evil thoughts are A. Evil B. Defiling

Is sin evil? ya think?

Is defilement sin? ya think?

Thoughts of adultery are evilly defiling. They are also of the tempter.

Satan is moved to resist the Law of God, the Word of God. It's not just a question of mankind or of us as individuals.

s

Only when one takes possession of them.

 

[squint]

Only when one takes possession of them.

You can excuse it however you wish. I know who temptation is of, that such works within are evil and defiling and that the LAW condemns that worker of iniquity, therefore do the math OR make excuses.

There are no excuses available for the tempter in my mind or heart.

s

 

[from scratch]

Yeah, I kinda knew you'd get there sooner or later.

And you don't employ circular logic either.

Try manning up to this reality and be honest with me:

Mark 7:
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

This is why it is pointless to judge sin only in external fashions. Evil thoughts are not seen externally. Everyone has them continually. These thoughts are also of the tempter as the tempter is moved to resist the LAW in our minds.

Therefore we are not under the law, but SATAN is. Putting LAW upon ourselves, even after salvation will cause a reaction in our minds just as happened with Paul in Romans 7.

On this basis of fact and reality we can not say we have no sin because the tempter in our minds is a RAVENOUS sinner regardless.

This is also how Paul derived himself as being the chief of sinners after salvation. Believers are attacked MORESO than anyone internally.

s

If one's sin has been taken away, how do they still posses it?

 

[from scratch]

We are all bound to disobedience, to corruption, to weakness, to dishonor and to a natural body.

Not one bit of that is SINLESS. It will be when it is ALL put off and changed.

In the meantime we all suffer the consequences of the facts of our current conditions, regardless of religious fantasy claims.

s

Not any more.

 

[squint]

Yep no context and this divorced statement makes it look like I practice sin as a lifestyle. Such things are only intended to destroy showing a true nature.

The Word has every intention of destroying the tempter, who is only being presently tolerated and inflamed by the law.

Matters of law are not matters of 'only man.'

 

[from scratch]

Any conclusion that says you are currently the entire Perfection of Jesus Christ is a delusion of religion. Not that I haven't seen it before.



I don't contend anything. I read and accept what the Word teaches.

The WORD, the LAW, the COMMANDS are not just about MAN.

Jesus spoke LAW to Satan as well. So trying to make LAW issues only issues about MAN is a false approach.

MAN in case you hadn't noticed is also and continues to be 'subject to temptation' which is DEMONIC and is prompted by the WORD, the LAW coming to our MINDS. Thereby evil thoughts, tempting thoughts come in, are evil, are defiling. No man keeps this from happening because....

it's not just about MAN.

You can rosy up any scenario you want about yourself as the supposed new man. I am not required to lie about being tempted, about that being by the tempter and about the tempter being provoked by the LAW.

The attempt to make LAW only about sinless you doesn't work or compute in the face of the obvious.

Wallowing in a non-existing fantasy state is worthless. We have our HOPE, but it is a HOPE that is in WAITING.

s

ehehehehehawehehehehehe

 

[Elder 111]

When one is lead to Christ and He indwells us with His Spirit we have turned from Sin. We still have sin in us and we still stumble and fall but He Just and able to forgive us our sins and not only that cleanse us from all unrighteousness. For it is God who causes us to walk His way. It is when we take our eyes off of Him that we stumble and fall.

What is the way of God? Is it not defined in the Ten Commandments? Is not the sin that the Holy Spirit keep me from, breaking the Ten commandments? If not please state what it is, what is sin.

 

[Nanopants]

What is the way of God? Is it not defined in the Ten Commandments? Is not the sin that the Holy Spirit keep me from, breaking the Ten commandments? If not please state what it is, what is sin.

Time's running out Elder. Read the Gospels and the Apostles. If you reject their words, well, why bother with anything else?

 

[GenemZ]

Made a simple observation genez. That it's not just man that is moved to react by the Word of God/the Law/the 10 commandments.

That the tempter does also operate in resistance to the Word of God.

Is this a hard principle to agree on for some reason? Over your theological head?

I wish you would talk to me. Not that stuffed dummy that you would rather deal with, who is not me. All you are doing is having an imaginary argument where you win, but its not with me. You just use me as a means to speak to that imaginary playmate you have invented. You have a lot to learn. Once you stop presuming you may begin to.

I say a believer is a sinner and has sin after salvation and you whine about it.

What is your imaginary opponent's name? Have you given him a name yet? 'Skinner the Sinner.' That sounds good! From now on, address me as Skinner. That way, I know I should back off, and let you argue with your imaginary playmate.

I point out that Paul was a sinner, even the chief of same after salvation and you whine about it.

Your being obnoxious. Plain and simple. You're sinning constantly against me with how you are attempting to debate with me. You have no idea what I believe. But, don't let me stop you. You are entertaining yourself, by creating a false playmate that you can attack and defeat.

This is what you really need to keep you busy in your sparse time.

 

[squint]

What is the way of God? Is it not defined in the Ten Commandments? Is not the sin that the Holy Spirit keep me from, breaking the Ten commandments? If not please state what it is, what is sin.

It has been pointed out to you many times now that none of us become sinless by following the law. No state of obedience to external observances is able to conclude that we are sinless. Those who approach the law that way are only kidding themselves about sin.

Evil thoughts come to all of us in adverse fashions when the law is upheld. This is depicted in great detail by Paul in Romans 7 and nobody avoids that from happening. From an internal perspective, all men are internally defiled in this way and they are so because of the working of temptation within.

Just because a person appears obedient on the exterior does not mean they are obedient or sinless.

Temptation defiles us all. An honest man who recognizes what is going on within will not be sucked in any further than that. But to say we are legally obedient on the outside is only to justify the tempter on the inside and that can not logically happen, ever.

s

 

[squint]

I wish you would talk to me. Not that stuffed dummy that you would rather deal with, who is not me. All you are doing is having an imaginary argument where you win, but its not with me. You just use me as a means to speak to that imaginary playmate you have invented. You have a lot to learn. Once you stop presuming you may begin to.
What is your imaginary opponent's name? Have you given him a name yet? 'Skinner the Sinner.' That sounds good! From now on, address me as Skinner. That way, I know I should back off, and let you argue with your imaginary playmate.

Your being obnoxious. Plain and simple. You're sinning constantly against me with how you are attempting to debate with me. You have no idea what I believe. But, don't let me stop you. You are entertaining yourself, by creating a false playmate that you can attack and defeat.

This is what you really need to keep you busy in your sparse time.

If a person claims they have no internal temptation after salvation, that it is not of the tempter and not evil and defiling, what do you expect me to say?

I see otherwise.

s

 

[GenemZ]

If a person claims they have no internal temptation after salvation, that it is not of the tempter and not evil and defiling, what do you expect me to say?

Stop sending these to me, please. You need to post to Skinner. He's the one as you imagine to be that way.


In the mean time. Your sin nature is being broadcasted all over the place in how you make up stuff about me. Its sin you know, when you do that. Sin. I know you are a believer.

I got you figured out. The first time I thought you simply made a mistake. But as you became consistently hitting a wall.. I realize that you simply like to toy and manipulate others. Either that? Or you have a serious problem with perceiving what another is saying. If it continues and you do not correct yourself? God's mercy = Ignore function. Then I can leave you to just you and Skinner, and stay out of it.

Wishing you a nice Day. Say hello to Skinner for me!

 

[Elder 111]

They have no jurisdiction over us. Jesus fulfilled all of them then He nailed them to the cross with Him Citing it is finished.When we are His we are no longer obligated to the law. He has fulfilled the law even the 10 commandments. Our rest is not in a day but in Him to whom has given His life for us.

Jesus never stated not implied that thje urisdjiction of the Ten commandments is finished or were finished at the cross. We have Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
If I take your argument to be true, this is what this statement by Jesus would mean. I come not to destroy but to finish away with. How does that work? What is the difference between destroy and finish if not the same?
What then is the meaning of the next verse? 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
So when Jesus died on the cross the earth and heaven was made over! If not something is very wrong!
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
If Jesus did not remake the heaven and earth at His death on the Cross it will mean that not even the dot of the "i" can be moved from the law, so that with verse 19 we who promote that the whole law is gone in some serious trouble! In other words to put if flatly and brazenly, you have been lied to and you believe a lie.

For in Him do we have our being and we are raised up to a new creation in Him filled with the Love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts. Love is the fulfilment of every law ever given. If one loves they would do nothing to harm anyone out of spite and revenge or the lusts of their hearts. For we are to die to ouselves and live unto Christ being a living sacrafice for Him.

If you love me keep my Commandments. John 14:15.

Our rest is completed and no longer in a day. It is in Him the one who came and died and rose from the dead. I rest in Him and that woot woot was for the King of Glory. For He has paid the price and given of His glory to us a sinful people who deserve nothing and could never live according to the law. Surrender to Him is the very answer to the problem of the law and those who promote it and other works to try and make one holy. For no man is Holy no matter what they do. Only one who is Good and it is He who makes us His holy nation and His people. Our works gain us nothing other than rewards. I promote Christ and Him crucified to the saving of our soul. You may want to observe and try to live the law or the 10 and bind yourself with a bondage.. I want to rest in the works of Christ and know that my salvation and righteousness rests on Him the only one who is Holy and righteous and without sin. For even my smallest works are not comparable to His mighty act of Love and Forgivness . Once we grasp that we are but mere helpless human beings in need of a savior we can never grasp what it is Jesus has done for us and then He choosed to dwell in us making us His temple.. Therefore His love is what is to longed for. Not the 10 commandments. For out of His Love for us while we were still dead in our trespasses He died to set us free from it all.

IT is not about works it is about Obedience and love that observes obedience.