What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

What do you understand about the Ten Commandments?

  • The ten Commandments belong to God

  • The Ten Commandments belong to Moses.

  • The principles of the Ten commandments are restricted to a time period.

  • The principles of the Ten Commandments are/were for all times.

  • Jesus/God wrote the Ten Commandments.

  • Moses wrote the Ten Commandments

  • All men will be judged by the principles of the Ten Commandments.

  • Only the Jews will be judge by the principles of the Ten Commandments.

  • The principles of the Ten Commandments is what Jesus meant will not change. Mat 5:17-19.

  • A Christians can be saved without living up to the principles of the Ten Commandments


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Rev Randy

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Why then did Jesus tell us to keep something else?
Well as BC Israel ceased to exist after the Sacrifice I'm not understanding your question. It became AD Israel.
Why did Jesus tell us to keep something else? Because he fulfilled the Old Covenant. He told us to love. Not keep anything. To live in love, not fail at keeping.
Scratch, I know that was a rhetorical question so this is not directed at you;)

Do we not understand the gospel? Did Christ not come to save us from the condemnation?
 
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bugkiller

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The Holy Spirit is part of The Trinity. It is God that gave the Ten commandments, yet part of the God head would not lead us to the Ten Comandments?
The first Commandment says that we should worship God only but The Holy Spirit will never direct us to that? It would be forsaking grace and faith to worship God and God alone? We will be making the worship of God our means of salvation instead of Jesus!
That is very innovative. You seem to be saying that all three members of the Trinity gave the law. Why is everything Moses said in the singular sense if he talked to all three. Yes I am aware of Deut 6:4.

Bugkiller
 
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Wordkeeper

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Cribstyl wrote:
Originally Posted by Wordkeeper
In the Garden, Adam could do anything, but not suffer the consequences. There was no pain, sickness or death. Wonderful, one might say, but that is like saying a bicycle with training wheels is wonderful. You can't fall! We know that it is not true, its not wonderful. For one thing, you can't lean into corners. You can't go in between narrow objects, go through hard to access places. This means you can't go fast. And you can't go certain places. A similar limiting situation existed in the Garden.
:idea::idea::idea: Any scriptures to back that up? Words you're speaking are either truth or not true.
Galatians 5
20The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Before the Law was brought in, God's character was not revealed. God's character can only be revealed through Christ. Eternal life is knowing Gods character. If you do not know God you do not have life.

1 John 4
9 God’s love was revealed among us in this way:[a] God sent His One and Only Son into the world so that we might live through Him.


John 17
3And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.


John 5
39You search the Scriptures because you think they give you
eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!



Romans 7
10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death!


Summary
Before the Law was given, men were in need of life, through the knowledge of God, as revealed in Christ. The Law spoke about Christ!


Please post Scripture that contradicts this view, ie. that Adam was meant to be fulfilled (saved) in the Garden.


Cribstyl wrote:
Originally Posted by Wordkeeper

IOW, in the Garden Adam couldn't reach his full potential. He couldn't exercise his freedom to chose to do good deeds, although he had the ability. He couldn't be fair, not take another person's goods although he was stronger. He couldn't forgive those who stole from his plentiful property. He couldn't sacrifice what was necessary for his own good situation to give to a needy person. Justice, mercy and love. All the stuff that having the image of God enabled him to exercise. All the stuff God Himself exercises.
List other people besides Adam and Eve that was in the Garden please? :confused::confused::confused:
Why?

Cribstyl wrote:
Originally Posted by Wordkeeper
So God placed a tree in the Garden which gave attractive fruit ,and told Adam not to eat the fruit. What happens? Adam eats the fruit! Resulting in him leaving the Garden and entering into the world where the framework for exercising these qualities exists.
Now Man can manifest the qualities that an image of God entails.
If Cain and Abel were born in the garden press A? Out of the garden press B. If your answer is; "I dont know", press G because your whole post is gabbage.


Can't understand your post. If you want Scriptural support for my post here it is:


Genesis 1
31God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day

God made everything including the serpent. It caused Adam to sin. Adam was forced to leave the Garden. The righteous in Adam's family learnt of their need for God. This could not have happened in the Garden.


Here's a parallel:
God gave Joseph a dream. The dream angered his family. It started a chain of events that led t/o Israel leaving their home and entering Egypt. In Egypt, Israel learnt of their need for God.


Acts 7
34‘I HAVE CERTAINLY SEEN THE OPPRESSION OF MY PEOPLE IN EGYPT AND HAVE HEARD THEIR GROANS, AND I HAVE COME DOWN TO RESCUE THEM; COME NOW, AND I WILL SEND YOU TO EGYPT.’


Please post Scripture that proves that God did not mean for good the actions that led to Adam's oppression resulting from his explusion from the Garden. And the actions that led to Israel being oppressed in Egypt.
 
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Wordkeeper

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Reasons for Confusion in the understanding of Scripture.

When a nutritionists reads a recipe for a meal and comes across a passage that says bread is needed in the meal to control the umami of the bacon and lettuce is needed to cut the richmess of the mayonnaise and tomatoes are needed to vary the texture, he will comment that those statements are garbage. He will ask for documentary proof. These proof for statements are found in the instructions of the person who created the recipe. Those instruction may also mention the function of the starch, the protein, the roughage and the vitamins that make up the minimum daily requirements of a healthy diet, but the creator's intention is not to solve a need, meet a requirement.

The result is not function but form.

This is what is called a meta topic. The student often is stuck with the details, the starch, the protein, the vitamins. The creator is interested in the eating experience! A food critic will describe the food so created as a whole, not as a breakdown of the components. His description will necessarily be complex, because he is describing the concept, not the components. In the Book of Romans, Paul is describing the entire purpose of Creation, not just the purpose of the Law.

He doesnt get stuck with describing the nutritional value of the salad!
 
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Elder 111

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Originally Posted by Elder 111
Why would he remove the law that ask us to worship him?
I dunno, ask Him.
That answer is not a new tactic. But the truth is still seen.
Mat 21:
24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
 
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Elder 111

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That is very innovative. You seem to be saying that all three members of the Trinity gave the law. Why is everything Moses said in the singular sense if he talked to all three. Yes I am aware of Deut 6:4.

Bugkiller
Without Deut. 6:4 the word translated God is elohiym which is plural. Jesus said He and His Father are one. John14:
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
There is no scripture that separates the unity. From creation it was so.
So why would God turn against Himself? Why would the Holy Spirit lead us away from the Ten Commandments that He gave as the Trinity?
John 16:
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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OrthodoxyUSA,
What was that Law of liberty again? I'm a little slow. Could you please repeat it as I see I have others about me who are even slower.

Think I'll just keep posting this over and over and over and over again. Hey... maybe assign it to a hot key!

The Christian Law, aka The law of Liberty.

1. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

2. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."

James 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

God be gracious to me a sinner.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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Do we see Christ asking (or commenting) about our obedience to the Ten Commandments at Final Judgement?


Matthew 25:31-46 (Christ speaking)

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Ooops... nothing in the final judgement except the law of liberty.

1. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

2. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."

God be gracious to me a sinner.
 
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Rev Randy

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Think I'll just keep posting this over and over and over and over again. Hey... maybe assign it to a hot key!

The Christian Law, aka The law of Liberty.

1. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

2. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."



God be gracious to me a sinner.

Thank you and be aware I have short term memory loss and may need to be reminded again.;) It's a common affliction around these parts.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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Thank you and be aware I have short term memory loss and may need to be reminded again.;) It's a common affliction around these parts.

And what of the followup post... perhaps I should combine them?

God be gracious to me a sinner.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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Perhaps you should . What was that again?

Think I'll just keep posting this over and over and over and over again. Hey... maybe assign it to a hot key!

The Christian Law, aka The law of Liberty.

1. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

2. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."

James 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


Do we see Christ asking (or commenting) about our obedience to the Ten Commandments at Final Judgement?

Matthew 25:31-46 (Christ speaking)

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Ooops... nothing in the final judgement except the law of liberty.

God be gracious to me a sinner.
 
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VictorC

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Adding to Jesus disallows His redemption. This is done by reverting to the entity He redeemed us from, and leaving God's redemption. Your understanding needs to conform to what Scripture actually says, rather than asking rhetorical questions reliant on a false premise (Jesus didn't give the Gentiles living in Barbados the Ten Commandments).
It is evident that Elder111 didn't read my post faithfully...
The Ten commandments that Jesus gave is adding to His redemption?
No.
Adding the Law to Jesus is denying His redemption. It is turning away from your new master to revert to becoming the property of another that Jesus bought you from with His Blood.
Adding how?
By openly declaring that Christ's atonement isn't sufficient to reconcile you to a Holy God. You have to add your work to His, as if you don't trust Him.
So redemption is our's without us serving God alone, having an idol or two?
Exactly.
Stop trying to excuse your idolatry before God's presence, "knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot".
He redeem us from a Holy Just and Good law that He himself gave?
God didn't give you the Ten Commandments.
God redeemed us from Himself?
Please tell me you haven't deified the Law and worship the created thing over the Creator!
We are saved from the law?
Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Jesus never wanted the Gentles in Barbados not to steal?
Reversing the relationship the Children of Israel had with the Law they alone had (not the Gentiles in Barbados) is reading your theology into Scripture, and not drawing your theology from Scripture. Romans 7:6 and Galatians 3:23 have been pointed out to you scores of times, and you still want to contradict God's Word and make up a carnal list of 'do' and 'don't' from God's Holy covenant you never received.

-whew-

No, God doesn't want you to steal. But the Law didn't stop you from stealing, and God already declared all the recipients of the Law disobedient. That doesn't even include you.
Your question based on reversing the factual relationship of the Law keeping a certain people until the fulness of time is bogus. Your question should have been "does God want to condemn all the people of Barbados eternally for theft?". This is what you're arguing for. Did you think it in vain that Scripture tells us "sin is not imputed when there is no law"?
Not to put away any idols they may have?
This is no longer an academic question. Do you think God should condemn you eternally for your idolatry?
Not to worship God alone?
You had plenty of opportunity to fix the error mentioned earlier in your post, whereby you deified the Law and you're committed to serving two masters. I have to accept what you wrote as representative of your true intentions.
It was not in vain that our Lord said "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other".

My question posted to you earlier is no longer rhetorical. It deserves an honest answer.

Elder111, do you need me to re-post my question for you?
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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Every single being on this plant will be judge by the Ten Commandment standards. Love to God and love to all men.


Do we see Christ asking (or commenting) about our obedience to the Ten Commandments at Final Judgement?

Matthew 25:31-46 (Christ speaking)

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Ooops... nothing in the final judgement except the law of liberty.

God be gracious to me a sinner.
 
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VictorC

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Every single being on this plant will be judge by the Ten Commandment standards. Love to God and love to all men.

It doesn't take long before that anti-Christian soteriology of yours boils over the top! :yawn:
A pity you believe something that isn't true, and postulate a judgment that you obviously can't survive. But, your post doesn't answer what I wrote - do you need me to re-post my question?
 
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Elder 111

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It doesn't take long before that anti-Christian soteriology of yours boils over the top! :yawn:
A pity you believe something that isn't true, and postulate a judgment that you obviously can't survive. But, your post doesn't answer what I wrote - do you need me to re-post my question?
What question is that?
 
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VictorC

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What question is that?

Most of the other members contributing to this forum have integrity on their side, and those who have followed this thread know that your comments misrepresent what I've posted. To the extreme, and should a moderator take an interest it is likely that they're going to look on your post as a personal attack.

Let's remember that I have upheld the Holiness of the Law mediated through Moses, and made a contribution to this thread when I observed that your first course of action was to diminish the Holiness of the Law to a mere list of 'principles', six times in the poorly worded questions of your poll.

From there I pointed out from Scripture -Romans 7:6 and Galatians 3:23- that the relationship is that the Law kept the recipients until the fulness of time determined by God -Galatians 4:4-5- and God redeemed those who were retained by the Law to make them His own adopted sons and daughters. That is the essence of the Gospel -God's redemption- that you continue to show denial of.

Throughout our posting history, I have asked you to document when and where God ever gave the Gentiles in Barbados -or elsewhere- the covenant from Mount Sinai Moses entitled the Ten Commandments. At no time did you ever attempt to provide any support that the Gentiles ever received the old covenant. At no time did you ever provide any solution to the estrangement apart from God the Gentiles suffered under during the Law's tenure (Ephesians 2:11-16, Galatians 3:13-14).

Your latest contribution is to deny the Biblical record regarding the origin of the Law, and the origin of sin that resulted from Adam's transgression that isn't even included in the covenant from Mount Sinai. Each time you have an opportunity to, you have chosen to contradict the Law's own testimony, and you have even contradicted yourself enough times that your opinions have long lost any hope of credibility.

So, your accusation that posting members opine God's action in taking away the Ten Commandments doesn't really tell the whole story. Not when it is realized that God never gave you -a Gentile- the Ten Commandments in the first place. And yes, the Biblical record is replete with God ending the jurisdiction of the Ten Commandments over those He redeemed as His own children. This has been established as factual in recent posts, and asking another member why he supposed God did this was met with his fiat statement that he "can't go there". I'm not in the business of determining why someone else would state this, but making such a statement disqualifies such a person from further contributions on a forum limited to discussions among Christians hoping to hash out differences.

So yes, I will agree with the Gospel's message that we can violate the old covenant - which is necessary in light of God's determination that we have violated the old covenant, with no exceptions: "For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all" (Romans 11:32), and it is solely to His redeemed that He gives us His promise "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more". It is necessary because sin still exists apart from the Law, just as it did before the Law existed.

...

And consistent with the way you've stripped the Law of its Holiness by making it a list of 'principles', it becomes something you advocate evil from. There hasn't been a law that has ever successfully transformed the fallen human character, but rather only condemned those who have transgressed it.
Which is everyone who ever received it; no exceptions: "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

Failing to keep the sabbath Holy, bearing false witness, and grovelling before the created instead of the Creator Who is forever blessed are all transgressions I have observed from your posts. Is it all right for you to transgress God's Holy Law?
That's a rhetorical question you won't answer.
It is a 'principle' I have observed many times that those most likely to transgress the covenant from Mount Sinai are those who advocate bringing God's purchased possession back under that which He redeemed us from. It is driven by the spiritual purpose ordained into the Law, designed to drive you to your knees in search of your Redeemer.

Galatians 3
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.


God's redeemed children live in the experience after faith in our Redeemer has come.
Those remaining in a condition before faith is given to them remain under the tutelage of the Law, for it hasn't finished with you yet.
 
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Elder 111

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Do we see Christ asking (or commenting) about our obedience to the Ten Commandments at Final Judgement?



Ooops... nothing in the final judgement except the law of liberty.

God be gracious to me a sinner.
REV. 22:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Look like Ten commandments to me!
 
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