What fulfils the function of "preservation" - within Evolutionary theory?

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Ahhh! "Life is here"; you feel a connection with "life" and you are prepared to be tested by your environment.

That makes sense. So there is somehow a tension between life and non-life that being tested on, improves.

I thought the aim was to make evolution more complex, until superior adaptation overwhelmed the relevant selection pressures.

You are answering my question in a way, but you are not being clear about when you feel you are preserving your life well and when not.

For example, don't the ten commandments make it easier for people to coexist? Why wouldn't coexistance be something that Evolution would want to harness?

How is that you can read what I wrote in very simple English, and completely take away something that I did not write in it?
Because what you've just said is NOTHING what I said at all. What you've just written is just... completely wrong.

 

[Gottservant]

Explain what you mean by 'take advantage of evolution, in doing good works, for God'.

I just mean there should be a moral component, to the theory, if it is to guide us between what we do right and what we give time to.

I see people struggle with the freedom God gives them, and I feel like "maybe if I understood Evolution, we could understand Jesus and what He said, in a new way". I mean something that is true no matter how you interpret it, has to have an affect on how that life develops.

And why do you want expediency in evolution? What do you hope to get from evolution being convenient?

I don't want Evolution to be expedient, its like sin, you have to know what it is, to keep from doing it, but that doesn't make it enjoyable.

You've got a gift, Warden, I just think its unstable and misused. Not to leave you there, though, we all have doubts that Jesus addressed and it can take time, to see what sort of world we would live in, if we really took advantage of the meaning God has given us.

I mean God has literally said "if you have Jesus, you are in charge"

I have Jesus and I want to be in charge of Evolution.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I just mean there should be a moral component, to the theory, if it is to guide us between what we do right and what we give time to.

I see people struggle with the freedom God gives them, and I feel like "maybe if I understood Evolution, we could understand Jesus and what He said, in a new way". I mean something that is true no matter how you interpret it, has to have an affect on how that life develops.



I don't want Evolution to be expedient, its like sin, you have to know what it is, to keep from doing it, but that doesn't make it enjoyable.

You've got a gift, Warden, I just think its unstable and misused. Not to leave you there, though, we all have doubts that Jesus addressed and it can take time, to see what sort of world we would live in, if we really took advantage of the meaning God has given us.

I mean God has literally said "if you have Jesus, you are in charge"

I have Jesus and I want to be in charge of Evolution.

See, it's comments like this that make me ask the question if you truly want to learn about evolution. Because all of these comments are... just frankly, dumb. You're not talking about evolution in any of them, you're talking about a messed up mix of religion, philosophy and science.

 

[Gottservant]

See, it's comments like this that make me ask the question if you truly want to learn about evolution. Because all of these comments are... just frankly, dumb. You're not talking about evolution in any of them, you're talking about a messed up mix of religion, philosophy and science.

It comes down to words.

Are you remembering words, or are you forgetting them?

Because your words determine whether you live or die.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It comes down to words.

Are you remembering words, or are you forgetting them?

Because your words determine whether you live or die.

As do actions.

And your words leave me to determine that you don't know what you're talking about or even arguing about.

 

[Gottservant]

It comes down to words.

Are you remembering words, or are you forgetting them?

Because your words determine whether you live or die.

If I didn't have Evolution's words, I would be fine - my destiny in Heaven is set - but if I didn't have the words of Jesus, I would be lost.

You say "but you have less appreciation of nature without the words of Evolution" but show me where you have adapted an appreciation of nature? You no longer have an appreciation of specific species, because you think they all derived from the same thing? So you sing your song, and I share mine, and somehow I should have done more to open your eyes to the nature you trusted? I think I have shared with you how to better yourself, because I have given you a choice, you simply won't trust the meaning of what I say because it doesn't conform to certain norms about the appreciation of nature that you think you have.

I'm going to have to get back to you, there are too many questions on my mind, I have no problem remembering what Jesus said, the way He used His Words and what for, but you suggest that I am ignorant and wilfully out of touch because I can't see nature morphing in an out of the definition of species in general. On another world I am likely not to exist, as far as you are concerned, because I have failed the test of Evolution on this one. That makes me stupid, but you a murderer?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

If I didn't have Evolution's words, I would be fine - my destiny in Heaven is set - but if I didn't have the words of Jesus, I would be lost.

You say "but you have less appreciation of nature without the words of Evolution" but show me where you have adapted an appreciation of nature? You no longer have an appreciation of specific species, because you think they all derived from the same thing? So you sing your song, and I share mine, and somehow I should have done more to open your eyes to the nature you trusted? I think I have shared with you how to better yourself, because I have given you a choice, you simply won't trust the meaning of what I say because it doesn't conform to certain norms about the appreciation of nature that you think you have.

I'm going to have to get back to you, there are too many questions on my mind, I have no problem remembering what Jesus said, the way He used His Words and what for, but you suggest that I am ignorant and wilfully out of touch because I can't see nature morphing in an out of the definition of species in general. On another world I am likely not to exist, as far as you are concerned, because I have failed the test of Evolution on this one. That makes me stupid, but you a murderer?

Yeah, it's clear that you don't actually want to learn about evolution.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I want an answer to, but "why is Evolution here?".

Evolution is here because there are populations of individuals that produce offspring that vary from their parents and those variations can be passed on to their offspring. Evolution is the name we give to the results of many generations of such 'reproduction with heritable variation'.

The result is that the makeup of the individuals in the population will change over time as variations accumulate generation by generation.

 

[SkyWriting]

So the assumption is typically that "anything better than mutation, is worth preserving", but I have not yet seen the evidence that preservation has natural causes (something demanded by "science", no?).

Newborns are often born with the ability to avoid death.
And they like to eat.
So it is a natural function.

(If I had more time, I'd say that with fewer words.)

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Newborns are often born with the ability to avoid death.
And they like to eat.
So it is a natural function.

(If I had more time, I'd say that with fewer words.)

You'd have to say that with more words for that comment to make sense.

 

[SkyWriting]

You'd have to say that with more words for that comment to make sense.

No

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

No

Yeah, you would because you really didn't make any sense.
Nothing is born inherently suicidal, everything that is born wants to live.

 

[SkyWriting]

Yeah, you would because you really didn't make any sense.
Nothing is born inherently suicidal, everything that is born wants to live.

Which makes preservation a natural function of life and evolution.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Which makes preservation a natural function of life and evolution.

That is true. But Gottservant is also asking (in his own... special way) how preservation happens in mutations, which is by natural selection.

 

[SkyWriting]

So the assumption is typically that "anything better than mutation, is worth preserving", but I have not yet seen the evidence that preservation has natural causes.

Mutations are variations by the design of God. And each variation has it's planned niche in the grand design.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So the assumption is typically that "anything better than mutation, is worth preserving"

Well that was a world record fail. After your "Hi there" your first half of a sentence was wrong. That is not the assumption. If you want to claim that it is you must provide a reliable source and quote it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Mutations are variations by the design of God. And each variation has it's planned niche is the grand design.

And I could make a statement just as bad that might be called "blasphemy". Sorry, you need evidence for this. Not handwaving.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I just mean there should be a moral component, to the theory, if it is to guide us between what we do right and what we give time to.

Scientific theories are objective, disinterested, explanations for observable phenomena. They have no moral component. There may be moral and ethical considerations in making the observations and in applying a theory for practical purposes, but there are none in the theory itself.

... I don't want Evolution to be expedient, its like sin, you have to know what it is, to keep from doing it, but that doesn't make it enjoyable.

Your wants are no more relevant to evolution than they are to erosion, plate tectonics, or the weather. Natural processes just happen, regardless of human wants, beliefs, or enjoyment.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

And I could make a statement just as bad that might be called "blasphemy". Sorry, you need evidence for this. Not handwaving.

It's just another empty, meaningless assertion - if everything, good or bad, is 'part of God's plan' and we have no insight into it because 'God moves in mysterious ways', you could equally well claim that everything is 'part of Satan's plan', or 'part of [insert inscrutable planner here]'s plan'. For all intents and purposes, it is no different from there being no plan at all - which, of course, is exactly how it appears.

This is the motivation behind the 'evil God' argument - any argument for a good God, in the face of the Problem of Evil, can be inverted with equal effect to argue for an evil God.

 

[SkyWriting]

And I could make a statement just as bad that might be called "blasphemy". Sorry, you need evidence for this. Not handwaving.

Sure.