What fulfils the function of "preservation" - within Evolutionary theory?

What about Evolution, would you preserve?

  • Mutation.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Adaptation.

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • Familiarity.

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • Difference.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Credulity.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Distance.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Slowness (mitigation of perceived "speed").

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Theory.

    Votes: 1 50.0%

  • Total voters
    2

Gottservant

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Hi there,

So the assumption is typically that "anything better than mutation, is worth preserving", but I have not yet seen the evidence that preservation has natural causes (something demanded by "science", no?). Moreover, it has not been demonstrated that "preservation" has a particular function at all. I want to keep the momentum going, I guess I just want to be steered in the direction of lasting or propitious preservation. You will be tempted to give me a reply that defends the impasse that Evolution does not need to be questioned to be "Evolution", but I urge you not to give me something that I cannot a part of which give to someone who truly needs it (someone who comes at night saying "my friend has come a long way to visit me, and I have nothing to give him - please give me something?").

There is more and less effective "preservation", so there is no need to tell me "the state of a particular preservation, is irrelevant to the preservation of the species" - I am not arguing from a position of blinder than normal perception. Rather, I am arguing that a better preserved species is able to survival more easily, than one that simply survives. This extends to communicating preservation, warning when preservation is vulnerable and predicting where preservation will be strongest - not a needless collection of advantages! The simpler you can make your answer, the better, too - so I hope you won't mind if I don't pull out all the stops to understand, that which you should really understand yourself!

The fact is that preservation handled correctly, will advance the species and the species being advanced will die less. This is the hand of something, upon the species of the Earth - that their development not come at the expense of the partially preserved, but not sufficiently. There needs to be an explanation of why "preservation" would "evolve". The more laterally that species develop the capacity to determine and direct their preservation, the broader the scope of their preservation would be. Thus there are principled interpretations of "evolutionary preservation" that have more say on the survival of a species than less - this ought to be noted and noted well.

What it does not demonstrate, is that in the absence of something that governs preservation in its own right, preservation simply happens by chance - because mutations slow the development of control (control which should in principle be greater if there is "preservation"). The preservation of something associated with mutation, has to be distinct from the mutation by which you get survival - or survival is simply death (the undifferentiated attempt at "evolution" that is not retained in a functional way). The colloquialism that mutation becoming its own adaptation is reason enough, does not hold over time, but purely in the moment. This is a pollution of the adaptations that are possible, in attempt to peddle a particular mutation, whose worth is undemonstrated.

I put it to you that this is as simply as introducing the concept of "preservation" in the same way "mutation" was, until it is clear that the difference between "Evolution" - that has particular preservations - is more advantageous, than mutations that are completely at random. Like the Monty Hall problem: once you know mutation does not work behind door A, you are better off to go with B or C, for which survival is more likely preserved. I am not attempting to say "Door A can't be chosen" by mutation, just that the more that is revealed, the more consistently probability plays a part in what is considered "Evolved". In time, choosing may become a reflex - at which point we are not looking at chance, but design.

Maybe this is above you; you were preserving your concept of "Evolution" just fine, without having to theorize "preservation" on its own - if that's you, I am sorry, maybe you will keep winning the mutational lottery and I will look stupid for trying to suggested that effort be added: but I want to stress, that you are not demonstrating that luck in an "Evolutionary" way, you are simply guessing. You could be more direct and contradict "mutation and preservation" together, but again: that would not be Evolution.
 

Larniavc

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Beneficial alleles are conserved in a population until the environment changes and the alleles are no longer beneficial and their frequency in the gene pool drops. Possible to zero.

So you more on the right track that ever before. Well done, you!
 
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Gottservant

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If you want to preserve something, you need to add something to it that will make it more preservable.
If you want a cheese burger to be preserved, you add preservative.

If what you said made sense, you would have a choice of what to preserve most.
 
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Gottservant

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Beneficial alleles are conserved in a population until the environment changes and the alleles are no longer beneficial and their frequency in the gene pool drops. Possible to zero.

So you more on the right track that ever before. Well done, you!

Preserved means "despite change", so you have not understood what I said.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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If you want to preserve something, you need to add something to it that will make it more preservable.
If you want a cheese burger to be preserved, you add preservative.

If what you said made sense, you would have a choice of what to preserve most.

Natural selection is the preservative. Those mutations that are not beneficial are deleted by the animal with those mutations dying, and the animals with the beneficial mutation continue to live and pass down their mutations to the next generation.
 
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Gottservant

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The preservation is that mutations that are not beneficial for the species are not selected through natural selection while the beneficial mutations are continuously selected.

You are suggesting the continuity of selection, preserves preserving.

That is an interesting model, but it needs even more justification, not less.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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You are suggesting the continuity of selection, preserves preserving.

That is an interesting model, but it needs even more justification, not less.

How about you go and actually learn about the theory of evolution and natural selection instead of continuing to ask these insipid questions here.
 
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Larniavc

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If you want to preserve something, you need to add something to it that will make it more preservable.
If you want a cheese burger to be preserved, you add preservative.

If what you said made sense, you would have a choice of what to preserve most.
It’s not perseveration it’s conservation. As in you conserve in it’s original state what is already there.
 
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Gottservant

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Natural selection is the preservative. Those mutations that are not beneficial are deleted by the animal with those mutations dying, and the animals with the beneficial mutation continue to live and pass down their mutations to the next generation.

What if I want something to be preserved for a longer amount of time, do I preserve waiting? Or do I preserve what changes through waiting?
 
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Gottservant

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How about you go and actually learn about the theory of evolution and natural selection instead of continuing to ask these insipid questions here.

Don't cry, yet. We haven't even got to the question of whether preserved by design, is better?

Or what recontextualizes preservation? Or for what?
 
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Gottservant

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It’s not perseveration it’s conservation. As in you conserve in it’s original state what is already there.

Better to preserve, than conserve.

And what is already there, if there is an affinity: for what can be better preserved?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Don't cry, yet. We haven't even got to the question of whether preserved by design, is better?

Or what recontextualizes preservation? Or for what?

If you want to argue design, you need to first actually show design. Which you can't do.

And 'recontextualizes preservation'? What do you even think you're talking about?
 
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Gottservant

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You're asking a nonsense question here.

Its a chicken/egg question. Not nonsense.

Loosen up a bit, and tell me whether you are reserving the right to critique your theory on the basis that it is only ever more right, or you just want to take a bigger gamble than you were going to (for whatever reason you got bored of being a Gentile for).

You realise that "only ever more right" is in itself not enough to justify, proper maturity.
 
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Gottservant

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If you want to argue design, you need to first actually show design. Which you can't do.

And 'recontextualizes preservation'? What do you even think you're talking about?

An elephant preserved in game parks, will be different from an Elephant preserved at a zoo.

I'm just talking about environments in which preservation takes place.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Its a chicken/egg question. Not nonsense.

Loosen up a bit, and tell me whether you are reserving the right to critique your theory on the basis that it is only ever more right, or you just want to take a bigger gamble than you were going to (for whatever reason you got bored of being a Gentile for).

You realise that "only ever more right" is in itself not enough to justify, proper maturity.

No, it is nonsense, pure and simple.

You don't know what you're talking about and that's plain for anyone to see. You also make it clear that you truly have no desire to actually learn about evolution because you get told where you're wrong on every thread you make, and you just ignore what is said.
 
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Gottservant

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No, it is nonsense, pure and simple.

You don't know what you're talking about and that's plain for anyone to see. You also make it clear that you truly have no desire to actually learn about evolution because you get told where you're wrong on every thread you make, and you just ignore what is said.

I reinterpret the information that is given to me, until I find, as I have done there is a crack - like the presumption that mutation is first - or a need - such as the theoreticisation of preservation (within the context of more sustainable Evolution) or if I don't find these, then what needs to be exaggerated, so that I don't fall foul of my own duty before God, to go the extra mile (that is, with people that think they can describe me - what I stand for - with a theory that applies to everyone).

Partly I am to blame for not being God, and hence able to tell you what you most need to evolve, and partly you are to blame, for attempting to describe me as flesh and bone, with no provable desire to praise God - if you gave me a choice, that would be a much smaller problem, but here we are.
 
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