What exactly is a liberal Christian?

[seebs]

Okay, what do YOU think it says?

The answer to this is either very short ("lots of stuff") or very very long, and would take years to write.

As a concrete example, for instance, I think that Genesis 1-3 talk about how important we are to God, and the nature of sin, and establish God as creator, and I don't think they even hint at being historical.

 

[Rainbow.]

To get back to the original question about us liberals. I think a liberal is someone who would hopefully think before they cast the first stone. Many of the conservatives on here are so busy stoning people in the name of Jesus, that it seems it would be impossible for them to even hear Jesus ask the question. Yea, I know, liberals cast stones too, but why don't you conservatives show and teach us liberal apostates the correct way to handle those with whom we disagree-lead the way. You only portray Jesus the judge and forget that He hung with those whom you so readily condemn, those of us who are not as perfect and Godly as you.

Well said!
Those who are so quick to judge, and to look down on others need to read Romans Chapter 14.
I think whether you are a liberal,conservative,catholic,protestant or any other kind of christian, if you treat others with respect and in the manner in which God would be proud we can all bridge the gap between us.

 

[Buck72]

Well said!
Those who are so quick to judge, and to look down on others need to read Romans Chapter 14.
I think whether you are a liberal,conservative,catholic,protestant or any other kind of christian, if you treat others with respect and in the manner in which God would be proud we can all bridge the gap between us.

I agree! All I'm saying is before you get to Romans 14, you have to get through Romans 1 first.

"Judgement" really gets under the skin of many liberal Christians, the reason being is that liberal Christians prefer tolerance to discernment. In all things there is balance; yes I should be gentle, self-controlled and loving when presenting the truth, I'm not always as good at doing that as I wish.

Eph 4:15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

Eph 4:25 Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another.

1Ti 5:20 Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.

2Ti 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

If "throwing stones" is the perception for calling out foul-up doctrine, then I presume those that see it that way have a MAJOR problem with much of the new testament.

I challenge ALL OF US to read Christ's letters to the seven churches in Revelation 1-3; there is some pretty heavy "stone throwing" going on in there by our own LORD!

We're dealing with things that will have ETERNAL CONSEQUENCES...we need to be tougher than this if we're going to be able to work out these matters like the sons and daughters of God we're called to be.

Hey, if I'm completely whacked-out doctrinally, I pray to God someone "throw a stone" at me and get my attention!

Jer 10:24 Correct me, O LORD, but with justice; Not with Your anger, or You will bring me to nothing.

Pro 3:11-12 My son, do not reject the discipline of the LORD Or loathe His reproof, For whom the LORD loves He reproves, Even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights.

Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching is light; And reproofs for discipline are the way of life

Pro 10:17 He is on the path of life who heeds instruction, But he who ignores reproof goes astray.

Pro 12:1 Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, But he who hates reproof is stupid.

Pro 13:18 Poverty and shame will come to him who neglects discipline, But he who regards reproof will be honored.

Pro 15:10 Grievous punishment is for him who forsakes the way; He who hates reproof will die.

Pro 15:31 He whose ear listens to the life-giving reproof Will dwell among the wise.

Pro 15:32 He who neglects discipline despises himself, But he who listens to reproof acquires understanding.

Pro 29:1 A man who hardens his neck after much reproof Will suddenly be broken beyond remedy.

Rev 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:

Rev 3:15 'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.

Rev 3:16 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

Rev 3:17 'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,

Rev 3:18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

Rev 3:19 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

 

[seebs]

I agree! All I'm saying is before you get to Romans 14, you have to get through Romans 1 first.

And Romans 2, which I think trumps any argument, anywhere, for any kind of condemnation.

If "throwing stones" is the perception for calling out foul-up doctrine, then I presume those that see it that way have a MAJOR problem with much of the new testament.

If you're an apostle, go ahead and correct us. If you're just another follower like the rest of us, then you should probably try to be a lot more humble, and remember that the doctrine you're calling a foul-up may be the truth, and it may be you that is getting it wrong.

I challenge ALL OF US to read Christ's letters to the seven churches in Revelation 1-3; there is some pretty heavy "stone throwing" going on in there by our own LORD!

God can do that. We can't.

We're dealing with things that will have ETERNAL CONSEQUENCES...we need to be tougher than this if we're going to be able to work out these matters like the sons and daughters of God we're called to be.

Error does not have eternal consequences; willful disobedience does. Jesus makes this point repeatedly. In this Law, uniquely enough, ignorance is a defense.

Hey, if I'm completely whacked-out doctrinally, I pray to God someone "throw a stone" at me and get my attention!

There's a common misperception that Christianity is about a big set of very specific moral rules. It's not. If it were, you would go to hell for not visiting people in prison. What Christianity teaches is that we must become the right kind of person, and the rest will follow. Sometimes, the things which follow are not those others expect.

I urge you again to learn more about the history of the faith. When you can understand why over three hundred devout ministers came together to form a new church that would allow them to keep slaves, because that was what the Bible taught, you will be a lot closer to understanding my concerns about people who listen too much to their own interpretation of the Bible, and defend their interpretation as though it, itself, were the Bible.

 

[Buck72]

You don't have to intend it. When you read things, they are filtered through Buck72-colored lenses.

Yeah, just like a STOP sign is filtered through Buck72 colored lenses. My lenses are clear, that is why I post scripture in my posts...long relative verses of scripture, so that it isn't skewed by Buck72's intrinsic perceptions.

It's still circular. If I show you a passage which I think shows you to be in erroor, you will, of course, interpret it in line with your own vision.

No brother, I interpret it with scripture. Believe me, my own line of vision is very contradictory with scripture. I (in my flesh) want things that Christ does not want for me (money, power, prestige, etc). Scripture absolutely crushes my desire to indulge myself in this world. Scripture keeps me awake at night pointing out that the fullness of my joy is NOT is God, because I continue to seek the things that I would have sought ANYWAY with Him, so, what does that say about my conversion!?

Buck72 and the Bible are at great odds, but I beat myself into submission by its instruction that I might attain the prize:

1Co 9:24-27 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

This has been tried before. Read up on the history of abolitionism in the church.

There are 225 verses in the Bible regarding slavery, much of them refer to the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt, however there were provisions in the Law for slavery insomuch as not everyone was free to do as they wished, be it because of poverty, lack of familiy, etc...

Exo 21:2 "If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment.

Lev 25:39-44 'If a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to you that he sells himself to you, you shall not subject him to a slave's service. 'He shall be with you as a hired man, as if he were a sojourner; he shall serve with you until the year of jubilee. 'He shall then go out from you, he and his sons with him, and shall go back to his family, that he may return to the property of his forefathers. 'For they are My servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt; they are not to be sold in a slave sale. 'You shall not rule over him with severity, but are to revere your God. 'As for your male and female slaves whom you may have--you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you.

I'm no expert on the actions of slavery 4,000 years ago, but it has been a fact of life, not a good fact, but a fact.

Abolitionists were absolutely right on to get rid of slavery, because they sought for this country to be a free nation to all people - praise God for that! Those that held to the Bible to justify slavery, MISSED the point about how to treat them, provide for them, and raise them up to become indepent free people.

To make a long story short, if someone believes that the Bible says something, there is basically no way to convince him otherwise

Great! I believe the Bible tells me not to cheat on my wife, or lie, or steal, or murder anyone. I doubt that there is a need to attempt to contradict that, now let's move to greater issues; the Bible speaks very harshly about what is false, as falsehoods are defined in the Bible. It also looks into the heart and mind of mankind and shows us the manner that each of us thinks, and the natural depravity (see my statement above) that makes us alien to God's will for our obedience. How do we know what to take from the Bible?

Deu 13:1 "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,'

Deu 13:3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Deu 13:4 "You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.

This is an endless post with regard to listening to His voice, obeying His commandments and rejecting what is not of God - I can pull scripture out here all day long, for the sake of being concise I'll move to the next topic with the caveat that I'll get into this particular with greater depth as required.

Right. "Therefore art thou inexcusable, O man, that judgest." Judgment is forbidden to us.

Judgement: "You're going to Hell!" - is one thing. No judgment from Buck, who the heck am I but a fellow servant? I have no clue as to the contents of the heart of anyone but myself. I'm not arguing judgement, but:

DISCERNMENT. Big difference. "PC-Amerika" propagates the lie that we are to be indistictive, non-discriminatory (non-thinking), and tasteless (like tofu). The Bible says that we (believers) are the "salt of the earth" (Matt 5:13). Salt makes the tastless, tasty, and it also irritates. That is why the world does not like Christians like Buck72 going around speaking Bible. That is why the early church was persecuted unto death...they must have not had a message that was popular. Just look at how Christ was received!!

Why then do we (the church) today look so much like the world?

Because of the matters that I'm doing my best to argue in this thread. Christ told us that a servant is no greater than his Master, the persecuted him, they'll certainly persecute us.

You're quite right; it's so unbiblical that the Bible doesn't actually mention homosexuality at all; that's your filter. The Bible, in the original language, as understood by the men who held the pens, never talks about anything you or I would recognize as "homosexuality".

For crying out loud:

1Ti 1:9-11 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

1Co 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

ἀρσενοκοίτης

arsenokoitēs

ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace

From G730 and G2845; a sodomite: - abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.

Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.

Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

Rom 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

ἀσχημοσύνη

aschēmosunē

as-kay-mos-oo'-nay

From G809; an indecency; by implication the pudenda: - shame, that which is unseemly.

He died gay. He may have stopped having sex (many people do), but inborn traits are inborn traits.

See above verses. He did not die gay, and was not BORN gay. He was a sinner, just like all of us. This "born gay" nonsense is an excuse to sin and make it not your own fault. 'Because I was born a child-molester, I can't help molesting kids, it's not my fault, it's God's fault.' -- Sounds like a courtroom in Amerika today doesn't it?

That's not the word of God; that's your interpretation of the Bible.[

/QUOTE]

So, we're NOT contemptible? What then are we above contempt? Hey if that is the case then Christ died needlessly - we can save ourselves.

Show me that one in the Bible! There's that interpretation bit again, like interpreting a STOP sign requires any real depth of thought.

And also on what the words in it mean.

I always define words either on demand, or out of compulsion, see above regarding the references to homosexuals that are "not in the Bible".

The Word, the only Word, is Jesus. The Living Word, who became flesh and dwelt among us.

AMEN.

That's it. There is no other "Word of God"; to give that title to any object is idolatry at best.

I'll agree there is no other word of God, but the Bible is not the "other word of God" - it is the Word of God.

THIS IS A MAJOR, MAJOR, MAJOR ISSUE OF THE FAITH.

There is a book, full of information handed down by people who knew Jesus, and God, very well, and this information guides us to Him, but in the end, it is the relationship with God which saves you, not the Bible.

The Koran is a book full of information handed down by people that supposedly knew "God" - why not just go out and be a Muslim then? Of course it is not the paper and bonded leather that saves you, I never said that it was, it is the words INSIDE the book that we can know God, and learn His message that He has communicated to us, and upon that knowledge come into a relationship with Him.

Act 6:7 The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

I was about to post all of Galatians 3, I'll defer that reading to your own accord. In it Paul tells us that faith is a matter of knowing the word of God and believing it to the point of acting on it.

 

[Buck72]

Unfortunately, you're about to try to cite scripture to support scripture. That works for any holy book. The Quran claims to be inspired and infallible too. So does the book of Mormon.

YES! That is called: Hermeneutics:

Main Entry: her·me·neu·tics
Pronunciation: -tiks
Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
Date: 1737
: the study of the methodological principles of interpretation (as of the Bible)

What the Koran and the Book of Mormon lack is obvious, neither has been able to withstand the test of time. Scripture has been vindicated again, and again, and again, over and over. The only people that do not believe that choose to not believe that on purpose, NOT by any academic effort, test, of application of FAITH. God isn't frusterated by His inability to communicate a message (66 books, 40 different authors) and preserve it over the 3,000-year period of recent history, His frustration is in people's lack of FAITH.

What we need is an extra-Biblical source for the credibility of the Bible. What I have there is God, who has led me to understand it, not as some kind of letter-perfect guide to the galaxy, but as a very good start on understanding Him; just enough to get me started.

Christ said this about the "letter perfect guide to the galaxy":

Mat 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

KJV says it best:

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

ἰῶτα

iōta

ee-o'-tah

Of Hebrew origin (the tenth letter of the Hebrew alphabet); "iota", the name of the eighth letter of the Greek alphabet, put (figuratively) for a very small part of anything: - jot.

κεραία

keraia

ker-ah'-yah

Feminine of a presumed derivative of the base of G2768; something horn like, that is, (specifically) the apex of a Hebrew letter (figuratively the least particle): - tittle.

Mat 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

This is about a personal relationship with God. The book is not necessary; God is.

Careful - who is "God" then? Shirley McClain thinks she is "God"!!

You can be saved by God without ever seeing a Bible, but the Bible cannot save you without God.

Romans 1, that mean old passage Buck72 used to illegitimze homosexuality actually supports this statement!

Rom 1:19-20 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

The gradual deification of the Bible is idolatry, pure and simple; it contradicts the very tenets of the faith.

The tenants of the faith? WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE?

 

[Rainbow.]

one who rejects the teaching authority of the Holy Father and fails to accept all doctrines and dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church.

Well, that must be me then!
When you say 'one who rejects the teaching authority of the Holy Father and fails to accept all doctrines and dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church'.
I find that very strange, as the Roman Catholics have changed a few things in the bible as far as i can see, (mainly the fact of Mary being a virgin to the end of her life)Because when i read the bible i can't find any evidence for this, in fact quite the opposite.But you choose to believe that, and i respect that and don't see you any less of a Christian because i don't agree with your views.But when you say a comment like the one above, it clearly shows you have no respect for other Christians other than Catholics.I'll apologise in advance if i have taken your comment the wrong way, but i can't see any other way to take it.

 

[Katmando]

Well said!
Those who are so quick to judge, and to look down on others need to read Romans Chapter 14.
I think whether you are a liberal,conservative,catholic,protestant or any other kind of christian, if you treat others with respect and in the manner in which God would be proud we can all bridge the gap between us.

And Romans 2, which I think trumps any argument, anywhere, for any kind of condemnation.

I see some are speeking out one side that you can't use scripture but then they will throw it out when it fits there agenda. Which is it?

If you're an apostle, go ahead and correct us.

Why if only an apostle? Should we listen to the apostles?

There's a common misperception that Christianity is about a big set of very specific moral rules. It's not. If it were, you would go to hell for not visiting people in prison. What Christianity teaches is that we must become the right kind of person, and the rest will follow. Sometimes, the things which follow are not those others expect.

The rules have nothing to with salvation but how to become more like Christ.

The Koran is a book full of information handed down by people that supposedly knew "God" - why not just go out and be a Muslim then? Of course it is not the paper and bonded leather that saves you, I never said that it was, it is the words INSIDE the book that we can know God, and learn His message that He has communicated to us, and upon that knowledge come into a relationship with Him.

Good point Allah is the same God right? NOT!

 

[seebs]

I'll agree there is no other word of God, but the Bible is not the "other word of God" - it is the Word of God.

No it isnot.

Jesus is.

Period.

The Bible is a book. Jesus is a man.

The claim that the Bible is the Word is, quite simply, idolatry; it is treating an object as a god.

 

[seebs]

Good point Allah is the same God right? NOT!

Ahh, so in your weird theology, Abraham made covenants with half a dozen different creators of the universe, and we worship one of them, and the Muslims worship another, and the Jews worship another, but they're all different, even though every one of them is the God of Abraham. Uh-huh.

 

[seebs]

BTW, Buck, my refusal to take your bait on the obviously wrong translation is not a concession of any sort; if you want to talk about translations of 1 Cor 6:9, that would be a Sexuality and Christianity topic.

 

[Katmando]

Ahh, so in your weird theology, Abraham made covenants with half a dozen different creators of the universe, and we worship one of them, and the Muslims worship another, and the Jews worship another, but they're all different, even though every one of them is the God of Abraham. Uh-huh.

The quran description of Allah is unknowable. Indeed, in Islam, it is considered blasphemous to "presume" that one can know God or claim any sort of close, personal fellowship with Allah. Allah is considered unknowable, transcendent, so exalted that he would never lower himself to treat with man on a personal level of friendship and fellowship. Allah is thus presented in the abstract, and ends up becoming little more than a mental exercise in theology.

Seeb is this your God?

 

[seebs]

The quran description of Allah is unknowable. Indeed, in Islam, it is considered blasphemous to "presume" that one can know God or claim any sort of close, personal fellowship with Allah. Allah is considered unknowable, transcendent, so exalted that he would never lower himself to treat with man on a personal level of friendship and fellowship. Allah is thus presented in the abstract, and ends up becoming little more than a mental exercise in theology.

Seeb is this your God?

It is not what I believe to be true about God, but nonetheless, Allah is described as having made a covenant with Abraham, and having sent a number of prophets.

Anyone who prays to "the God of Abraham" is praying to my God. They may believe things about Him which are not true, but that doesn't change anything.

This is like claiming that someone who thinks I'm a blonde, and talks about "seebs, the guy who posts on ChristianForums, and moderates comp.lang.c.moderated; yeah, he's really cool, and he has nice blonde hair" is talking about someone else. Obviously, he's talking about me, but mistaken about some of my attributes.

There is only one creator of all things seen and unseen. There is no other. When you address the Creator, you get the Creator; who else could you get? Who else can answer to that name, to that description?

 

[Katmando]

This is like claiming that someone who thinks I'm a blonde, and talks about "seebs, the guy who posts on ChristianForums, and moderates comp.lang.c.moderated; yeah, he's really cool, and he has nice blonde hair" is talking about someone else. Obviously, he's talking about me, but mistaken about some of my attributes.

I have no interest in taking this any further in this post. But Allah and the Christian God are not the same. And that was the point I was making when you called my theology twisted.

 

[seebs]

I have no interest in taking this any further in this post. But Allah and the Christian God are not the same. And that was the point I was making when you called my theology twisted.

Okay, so, how many different creators does the universe have? How many of them made covenants with Abraham?

It simply doesn't make any sense to claim that there are other creators. The strongest claim we can reasonably make is that some people are mistaken about the attributes of the Creator.

 

[MissFirerose]

Okay, so, how many different creators does the universe have? How many of them made covenants with Abraham?

It simply doesn't make any sense to claim that there are other creators. The strongest claim we can reasonably make is that some people are mistaken about the attributes of the Creator.

Oh Seebs... we need more folks like you around here.

 

[seebs]

Oh Seebs... we need more folks like you around here.

I know. I needed a break; the mainstream Christian community has always been very harmful to my faith. God got me straightened out, with people to support me in doing what I need to do, so I should be back for a while now.

Gandhi said it very well. "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

 

[BarbB]

It is not what I believe to be true about God, but nonetheless, Allah is described as having made a covenant with Abraham, and having sent a number of prophets.

Anyone who prays to "the God of Abraham" is praying to my God. They may believe things about Him which are not true, but that doesn't change anything.

Genesis 17

GE 17:19 Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. [20] And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. [21] But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year." [22] When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him.

Genesis 17 confirms that God's covenant was with Isaac, not Ishmael. In fact, like so many first born sons, Ishmael's life and heritage was not to be admired.

! GE 16:11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:
"You are now with child
and you will have a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the LORD has heard of your misery.

GE 16:12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone's hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers."

Also, it's my understanding that Martin Luther was "born-again" through reading the scriptures himself, instead of listening to a priest expound on them. Does this not speak to you. I credit the Bible with a major part in my salvation also!

You sound so much like pax, a gnostic in the sex forum who finally gave up on us when we refused to follow his heretical path!

 

[Christi]

Genesis 17

Genesis 17 confirms that God's covenant was with Isaac, not Ishmael. In fact, like so many first born sons, Ishmael's life and heritage was not to be admired.



Also, it's my understanding that Martin Luther was "born-again" through reading the scriptures himself, instead of listening to a priest expound on them. Does this not speak to you. I credit the Bible with a major part in my salvation also!

You sound so much like pax, a gnostic in the sex forum who finally gave up on us when we refused to follow his heretical path!

I didn't know what happened to pax. Is that why he hasn't been around for real? I knew you disagreed with him, but I thought you liked him! Do you still like Fejao, cause I haven't seen him either. Or Key of David.

Anyway, you are a blessing to me, Newlamb, but seebs is as well.

seebs is more articulate in expressing the feelings I have inside, but can't quite push out.

 

[Polycarp1]

“Dieu” is the French for God, “Dios” the Spanish, and “Bog” the Russian. Each can be used of the unary God of Judaism, the Holy Trinity of Christianity, or the god whom Mohammed claimed to have dictated the Koran. Likewise, “Allah” is the Arabic for God. Devout Christians in Palestine and Lebanon, Arabic speakers, recite the Creeds with “Allah” as the word used for “God” in them.



Mohammed had some misunderstandings about God, to be sure. But the formulary that is the basic creed of Islam contains two clauses: “There is no God but God, and Mohammed is His prophet.” And the first formulary is intended to say, “The idols whom you Meccans and other Arabs worshipped up until now, they’re false idols, and there is only one God – the one who revealed Himself to Abraham.” And up to that point, Mohammed was right. Where he went from there, no devout Christian will concur completely with. But he got the first step right.



As for “The Bible is the Word of God” with no modifiers attached, let’s look at John 1:1-4, 14, with the appropriate substitution made according to that formula:

In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God. It was in the beginning with God. All things were made through it, and without it nothing was made that was made. In it was life, and the life was the light of men. … And the Bible became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld its glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Somehow I don’t think that this is something any Christian is prepared to avow to be the truth.



From the Articles of Religion shared by the Church of England, the other churches of the Anglican Communion, and the Methodist Church:

Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation, so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed as a article of the Faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation.

Does that say anything in error according to anybody’s beliefs?