Buck72 said:
Now we're getting somewhere. Listen, if I take tiny verses out of context and jumble them up to paste on my wall, I can make the Bible say about anything.
Sure, but that's not what we're talking about.
I contend that I am neither doing that nor attempting, by any measure to bring about the will of Buck into anything - other than perhaps the "current events and politics" threads.
You don't have to
intend it. When you read things, they are filtered through Buck72-colored lenses.
My challenge to you brother, and Karl, is to show me specific Biblical errors that I have made, with Biblical support. Then will I contend that I've been erroneous, and will concede my point of contention.
It's still circular. If I show you a passage which
I think shows you to be in erroor,
you will, of course, interpret it in line with your own vision.
This has been tried before. Read up on the history of abolitionism in the church. To make a long story short, if someone believes that the Bible says something, there is basically no way to convince him otherwise.
1. Exclusion of Biblical standards, judgement.
Right. "Therefore art thou inexcusable, O man, that judgest." Judgment is forbidden to us.
2. Inclusion of things (homosexuality) that are unbiblical.
You're quite right; it's so unbiblical that the Bible doesn't actually mention homosexuality at all; that's
your filter. The Bible, in the original language, as understood by the men who held the pens, never talks about anything you or I would recognize as "homosexuality".
Did I mention he used to be gay?
He died gay. He may have stopped having sex (many people do), but inborn traits are inborn traits.
Seebs, I know that people pray, and they do their best. I have this same debate with my own father. I know that you and I agree that we are fallible. I will stand on the roof of my house and shout: "CONTEMPT" for myself because I agree with the word of God that I am contemptible.
That's not the word of God; that's your interpretation of the Bible.
Where we part is whether the Bible is the word of God or not.
And also on what the words in it mean.
The Word, the only Word, is Jesus. The Living Word, who became flesh and dwelt among us. That's it. There is no other "Word of God"; to give that title to any object is idolatry at best. There is a book, full of information handed down by people who knew Jesus, and God, very well, and this information guides us to Him, but in the end, it is the relationship with God which saves you, not the Bible.
We've doused the arrogance, now let's hit the Bible's credibility:
Unfortunately, you're about to try to cite scripture to support scripture. That works for any holy book. The Quran claims to be inspired and infallible too. So does the book of Mormon.
What we need is an extra-Biblical source for the credibility of the Bible. What I have there is God, who has led me to understand it, not as some kind of letter-perfect guide to the galaxy, but as a very good start on understanding Him; just enough to get me started.
2Ti 3:16-17 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
You omitted a crucial piece of notation. The word "is" should have been in italics, because it was added by translators. Other translators believe it is more correct to say "All scripture which is inspired by God is profitable for..."
Note, also, that something need not be factually accurate in every detail to meet this standard.
Finally, remember that this referred only to what we now call the Old Testament; that was "scripture". Paul's letters and the gospels were not "scripture" for another 300 years.
Psa 138:2 I will bow down toward Your holy temple And give thanks to Your name for Your lovingkindness and Your truth; For You have magnified Your word according to all Your name.
Yes, but the Word is Jesus, not the Bible.
Either the Bible is the word of God, or it isn't.
Isn't. The Bible didn't die for my sins. In the beginning was the Word, but the Bible didn't exist until 325AD.
What next?
What next? We practice Christianity, as practiced by the early Christians, and set out by Jesus the Christ, which involves worshipping God, not a book which is used as a superstitious talisman to intercede between us and God.
This is about a personal relationship with God. The book is not necessary; God is.
You can be saved by God without ever seeing a Bible, but the Bible cannot save you without God.
The gradual deification of the Bible is idolatry, pure and simple; it contradicts the very tenets of the faith.