What errors and inventions arose in Roman Catholicism?

[Erose]

I dont believe they refer a holy site as the "queen of Heaven"

“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN...that they may provoke me to anger” —Jeremiah 7:18

So you don't believe Christ is the king of heaven?

 

[Pteriax]

I fail to see how one can justify Christians murdering Christians as though it could ever be justified.

-CryptoLutheran

I see it as Christians overthrowing their pagan oppressors in a revolt, not murder, as I have said.

 

[Pteriax]

What does it mean to say "I have no problem with how it happened"? It was war, people died, many innocent of any great wickedness, many simply farmers and labourers who were going about their business when the troops came and killed them. Some were tortured. Some were promised clemency and then shamefully executed. The north of England suffered greatly by such measures. So what does it mean to have no problem with how it happened?

Maybe you are unfamiliar with what a war is.

 

[Pteriax]

Isn't it a matter of perspective that drives who one thinks was right and who wrong? It surely is not objective to say "protestants were right and catholics wrong".

It is, and it is true as well.

 

[Pteriax]

One is surprised to see blanket approval is such actions because "it was war". Weren't the wars in the old testament commanded by God? A prophet or another person led by God calling for war?

Who are you to say those people were not led by God?

 

[Pteriax]

So what you are saying is that YOU really have no response? You made some claims, which I know you cut and pasted, but if you are going to post those claims and proclaim them as your own thoughts as well, then you need to be able to defend them. Posting a bunch of videos isn't a response.

Yes it is, in fact they are my source material. Enjoy.

 

[Pteriax]

Is it a huge error when people bow out of respect to the queen of England? (Most of them are Protestant who do so.) Or any other king in their country? And yet the woman who gave birth to OUR salvation, deserves no respect?

First off, no. Secondly that is not Mary they are bowing to, it is a graven image of Mary.

 

[Erose]

Yes it is, in fact they are my source material. Enjoy.

So you are saying that you are too lazy to debate what you have posted? Let me be frank. Your source material is garbage and I do not have the time or desire to refute all the false claims found within these videos. If it requires you to use outright lies and misconceptions to win a debate, maybe you really should begin to question your source material.

Rev Randy is right, the SDA do have better videos, and make a better case than these, even though it is still false. At least they gave it a better try.

PS. Your videos do not directly address my refutations of your cut and pastes.

 

[Albion]

First off, no. Secondly that is not Mary they are bowing to, it is a graven image of Mary.

What's more, they don't PRAY to the Queen, don't consider her a special go-between with God, a co-redeemer of mankind, or imagine that she creates miracles by ascending into the heavens or the like. No, there's not much of a comparison there.

 

[Erose]

First off, no. Secondly that is not Mary they are bowing to, it is a graven image of Mary.

No they are bowing to what that image represents, much like someone who weeps over a picture of a loved one who has passed away. Are they weeping for the picture? No, they are weeping for him/her that the picture is of. Honestly no leg to stand on here. What you accuse these people of, Protestants do in every day life as well.

If you going to take this graven image thing, you need to take it all the way, i.e. no pictures or statues or anything that is an image of something else. Yet in many Protestant homes there is an image of the Last Supper or some other form of sacred art. Why? Because it feels right to them to have something in their home that shows all who enter it that this is a Christian home.

 

[Pteriax]

So you are saying that you are too lazy to debate what you have posted? Let me be frank. Your source material is garbage and I do not have the time or desire to refute all the false claims found within these videos. If it requires you to use outright lies and misconceptions to win a debate, maybe you really should begin to question your source material.

Rev Randy is right, the SDA do have better videos, and make a better case than these, even though it is still false. At least they gave it a better try.

PS. Your videos do not directly address my refutations of your cut and pastes.

Nothing I posted before was cut and paste.

The videos are just fine, they are made by experts on Church history, Roman Catholicism, theology, and so forth. Calling them garbage does not change the fact that they refute your claims. Why is it that every time I provide material to Catholics refuting them, they simply refuse to even read / watch / or otherwise look at it? If you just want to go on through life without having to deal with people have valid reasons when they disagree with you fine, but a forum might be a poor environment for such an endeavor.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Erose

Is it a huge error when people bow out of respect to the queen of England? (Most of them are Protestant who do so.) Or any other king in their country? And yet the woman who gave birth to OUR salvation, deserves no respect?
​

First off, no. Secondly that is not Mary they are bowing to, it is a graven image of Mary.

Perhaps that is why some of the early Reformers, such as Martin Luther, viewed the RCC as being the "harlot" in Revelation

Lev 26:1
Thou shalt not make idols for yourselves, neither a carved image nor a [sacred] pillar shall you rear up for yourselves;
nor shall you set up an engraved stone in your land, to bow down to it; for I [am] the LORD your God.

Deu 4:16
"lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure: the likeness of male or female,

Rev 9:20
and the rest of men, who were not killed in these plagues, neither did reform from the works of their hands,
that they may not bow before the demons and idols,
those of gold,and those of silver, and those of brass, and those of stone, and those of wood, that are neither able to see, nor to hear, nor to walk,

 

[Pteriax]

No they are bowing to what that image represents, much like someone who weeps over a picture of a loved one who has passed away. Are they weeping for the picture? No, they are weeping for him/her that the picture is of. Honestly no leg to stand on here. What you accuse these people of, Protestants do in every day life as well.

If you going to take this graven image thing, you need to take it all the way, i.e. no pictures or statues or anything that is an image of something else. Yet in many Protestant homes there is an image of the Last Supper or some other form of sacred art. Why? Because it feels right to them to have something in their home that shows all who enter it that this is a Christian home.

False. There is no comparison with that metaphor, that's ridiculous. They are worshiping that statue and there is no way around that fact.

 

[Erose]

What's more, they don't PRAY to the Queen, don't consider her a special go-between with God, a co-redeemer of mankind, or imagine that she creates miracles by ascending into the heavens or the like. No, there's not much of a comparison there.

So they bow to someone that you agree is LESS than the mother of Jesus, and that is alright with you? So you think the worldly is greater than the heavenly. Got it.

 

[Erose]

False. There is no comparison with that metaphor, that's ridiculous. They are worshiping that statue and there is no way around that fact.

No way around it? There is a way around it, because you are assuming something is happening that is not happening.

The comparison that I offered is dead on accurate. By the way still waiting for a rebuttal of my posts 80-81.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Pteriax

False. There is no comparison with that metaphor, that's ridiculous. They are worshiping that statue and there is no way around that fact.
​

Originally Posted by Albion

What's more, they don't PRAY to the Queen, don't consider her a special go-between with God, a co-redeemer of mankind, or imagine that she creates miracles by ascending into the heavens or the like. No, there's not much of a comparison there.
​

Why did I get the feeling Mary would be brought up on this thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t6752002-101/
Mary - Queen Of Heaven

Originally Posted by Ormly

And they say don't worship Mary? Balderdash! She is placed before Jesus Christ, before God Himself.
​

http://www.christianforums.com/t5617198-63/
She who sits as queen, not widow, never mourns






.

.

 

[Albion]

Why did I get the feeling Mary would be brought up on this thread

Perhaps because she was part of your OP? The Immaculate Conception, Assumption, and "Marian" devotions were all cited there.

 

[Erose]

Perhaps that is why some of the early Reformers, such as Martin Luther, viewed the RCC as being the "harlot" in Revelation

Lev 26:1
Thou shalt not make idols for yourselves, neither a carved image nor a [sacred] pillar shall you rear up for yourselves;
nor shall you set up an engraved stone in your land, to bow down to it; for I [am] the LORD your God.

Deu 4:16
"lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure: the likeness of male or female,

Rev 9:20
and the rest of men, who were not killed in these plagues, neither did reform from the works of their hands,
that they may not bow before the demons and idols,
those of gold,and those of silver, and those of brass, and those of stone, and those of wood, that are neither able to see, nor to hear, nor to walk,



http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=..._nTVANrWdrn06KL57IA0oLNQ&ust=1377272778627442

And yet wasn't this all discussed and dealt with in the 7th Ecumenical Council, which many of you claim as well? Perhaps some homework is needed by some here:

Second Council of Nicaea - 787 A

 

[Erose]

Why did I get the feeling Mary would be brought up on this thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t6752002-101/
Mary - Queen Of Heaven




http://www.christianforums.com/t5617198-63/
She who sits as queen, not widow, never mourns






.

.

Considering that you are the OP, where have you been?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Considering that you are the OP, where have you been?

Believe it or not, I do have a life outside of CF





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