What errors and inventions arose in Roman Catholicism?

[Rev Randy]

I dont believe they refer a holy site as the "queen of Heaven"

“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN...that they may provoke me to anger” —Jeremiah 7:18

Now I have looked at your image pretty close. I see no one making cake.

 

[Tzaousios]

Whatever, all I know is that I dont need a rosary or a pope to be saved, only Jesus

Are you admitting that you have no answer for what I said in reply to your attempted "gotcha" moment? What would you say about Evangelical Protestants praying beside holy sites in Jerusalem?

 

[PaladinValer]

And the killing of a person for the sake of a different belief is justifiable if "they did it first"?

Not the Christianity Christ taught.

This all reminds me of a certain DS9 episode; episode 13 in the first season named "Battle Lines". Sisco and Opaka, the Kai (pope-like figure) of the Bajoran religion find themselves on a world where factions fight on such old hatreds that they have rationalized to the point of eternal, bloody war; one they are doomed to face as punishment due to their unceasing conflict. Only thing is, they never permanently die since an aberration of nanotechnology allows the people to never truly stay dead and they resuscitate. Sisco can return, but Opaka, being killed by accident once, is unable to.

Her difference is that she chooses to attempt, however difficult, to reconcile the two factions.

The point is, those who keep to the old hatreds are the ones who tend to repeat them. So, truly, who is in the moral right? Is it the factions? Or the individuals who keep the hatreds running hot?

The Vatican Catholic Church has blood on it. So does the Eastern Orthodox Church...so does my Anglican Church...so does Lutheranism, Presbyterianism, and every other group. We meet as equals in this regard. The only smart ones are those who accept this truth and attempt what the Kai did. Those who don't, well, live in their own hell.

Sadly, the choice is never one's own. One choice affects the whole of creation; we see this in science, we see this in history, and we see this in our Christian theology. A pity we cannot blast them all off to such a planet; it seems like a rather good solution.

 

[Rev Randy]

Whatever, all I know is that I dont need a rosary or a pope to be saved, only Jesus

I hope not as I have no Pope. I do own a rosary. A handmaid gift from a dear Roman Catholic nun I met years ago when I was a baptist.

 

[yogosans14]

Now I have looked at your image pretty close. I see no one making cake.

At this time they didnt have a rosary so..........

I'm pretty sure calling Mary a Co-redemptrix and praying to her is a problem. Just my opinion though

 

[Rev Randy]

And the killing of a person for the sake of a different belief is justifiable if "they did it first"?

Not the Christianity Christ taught.

This all reminds me of a certain DS9 episode; episode 13 in the first season named "Battle Lines". Sisco and Opaka, the Kai (pope-like figure) of the Bajoran religion find themselves on a world where factions fight on such old hatreds that they have rationalized to the point of eternal, bloody war; one they are doomed to face as punishment due to their unceasing conflict. Only thing is, they never permanently die since an aberration of nanotechnology allows the people to never truly stay dead and they resuscitate. Sisco can return, but Opaka, being killed by accident once, is unable to.

Her difference is that she chooses to attempt, however difficult, to reconcile the two factions.

The point is, those who keep to the old hatreds are the ones who tend to repeat them. So, truly, who is in the moral right? Is it the factions? Or the individuals who keep the hatreds running hot?

The Vatican Catholic Church has blood on it. So does the Eastern Orthodox Church...so does my Anglican Church...so does Lutheranism, Presbyterianism, and every other group. We meet as equals in this regard. The only smart ones are those who accept this truth and attempt what the Kai did. Those who don't, well, live in their own hell.

Sadly, the choice is never one's own. One choice affects the whole of creation; we see this in science, we see this in history, and we see this in our Christian theology. A pity we cannot blast them all off to such a planet; it seems like a rather good solution.

Good post.

 

[Gnarwhal]

And the killing of a person for the sake of a different belief is justifiable if "they did it first"?

Not the Christianity Christ taught.

This all reminds me of a certain DS9 episode; episode 13 in the first season named "Battle Lines". Sisco and Opaka, the Kai (pope-like figure) of the Bajoran religion find themselves on a world where factions fight on such old hatreds that they have rationalized to the point of eternal, bloody war; one they are doomed to face as punishment due to their unceasing conflict. Only thing is, they never permanently die since an aberration of nanotechnology allows the people to never truly stay dead and they resuscitate. Sisco can return, but Opaka, being killed by accident once, is unable to.

Her difference is that she chooses to attempt, however difficult, to reconcile the two factions.

The point is, those who keep to the old hatreds are the ones who tend to repeat them. So, truly, who is in the moral right? Is it the factions? Or the individuals who keep the hatreds running hot?

The Vatican Catholic Church has blood on it. So does the Eastern Orthodox Church...so does my Anglican Church...so does Lutheranism, Presbyterianism, and every other group. We meet as equals in this regard. The only smart ones are those who accept this truth and attempt what the Kai did. Those who don't, well, live in their own hell.

Sadly, the choice is never one's own. One choice affects the whole of creation; we see this in science, we see this in history, and we see this in our Christian theology. A pity we cannot blast them all off to such a planet; it seems like a rather good solution.

I like the analogy, well said.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It was a war, as I said. I support whatever needed to happen to win it. People die in war. I am glad the reformation happened, and if a war was the only way to bring it about, then it was a good thing, just as the destruction of Nineveh was a good thing.

I fail to see how one can justify Christians murdering Christians as though it could ever be justified.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[MoreCoffee]

Indeed; while there were abuses in the Catholic Church, and certain Confessional groups believe that there are some that still persist; Protestantism is certainly not "the" immaculate reincarnation of the Church that so many of them seem to teach and believe. Likewise many protestants speak and post as though they, not the Pope is infallible in what they do and what they teach (they must be because every one else is always wrong).

...Speaking of course, as a fallible Lutheran and as a poor miserable sinner redeemed by Christ.

Deep down everybody who opines with confidence and asserts their view "is just quoting scripture" wants to be the pope

 

[Rev Randy]

At this time they didnt have a rosary so..........

I'm pretty sure calling Mary a Co-redemptrix and praying to her is a problem. Just my opinion though

It's an opinion I once had. I now see prayers to the Saints not unlike me asking any prayerful Christian to pray for me.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It was a war, and the salvation of many was at stake. I have no problem with how it happened.

What does it mean to say "I have no problem with how it happened"? It was war, people died, many innocent of any great wickedness, many simply farmers and labourers who were going about their business when the troops came and killed them. Some were tortured. Some were promised clemency and then shamefully executed. The north of England suffered greatly by such measures. So what does it mean to have no problem with how it happened?

 

[MoreCoffee]

It was a war, as I said. I support whatever needed to happen to win it.

No question of justice? No qualifications of any kind?

People die in war. I am glad the reformation happened, and if a war was the only way to bring it about, then it was a good thing, just as the destruction of Nineveh was a good thing.

Wasn't it the pagan armies of Babylon that destroyed Nineveh? One world power supplanted by the next. One pagan empire replaced by another. Is that how the 'reformation' worked?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Of course, although I consider it a war. Who struck first doesn't matter. They were in the right, the Catholics were in the wrong.

Isn't it a matter of perspective that drives who one thinks was right and who wrong? It surely is not objective to say "protestants were right and catholics wrong".

How often does God condone war in the Bible?

In the old testament it is God's direct commands that are alleged as justification for war. Which of the reformers was a prophet of God? This is a rhetorical question whose answer is "none".

A lot, as I recall, when done for the right reasons. In fact the only people who are really pacifists that claim to be Christian as far as I know are the JWs, and that's a cult.

What about Mennonites, Amish, and multitudes of people who refuse to war against others for conscience's sake?

 

[MoreCoffee]

...
I answered. I approve of what happened. I am glad it happened. It needed to happen. It was justified and in my opinion ordained by God.

Like the divine right of kings was ordained by God?

The Pilgrimage of Grace was a popular rising in York, England during 1536, in protest against Henry VIII's break with the Roman Catholic Church and the Dissolution of the Monasteries, as well as other specific political, social and economic grievances. It was done in action against policies initiated by Thomas Cromwell. Technically the term Pilgrimage of Grace refers specifically and inclusively to the uprising around York, though sometimes it is used in relation to the risings in general which took place around northern England; first from Lincolnshire, twelve days before the actual Pilgrimage of Grace.

...

The local church was, for many in the north, the centre of community life. Many ordinary peasants were worried that their church plate [offering for the poor] would be confiscated. There were also popular rumours at the time which hinted that baptism might be taxed. The recently released Ten Articles and the new order of prayer issued by the government in 1535 had also made official doctrine more reformed. This went against the conservative beliefs of most northerners.

...

In February 1537 a new rising took place in Cumberland and Westmorland called Bigod's Rebellion (not authorised by Aske) under Sir Francis Bigod, of Settrington in the North Riding of Yorkshire. Upon this the king arrested Aske and several of the other leaders, such as Lord Darcy, Lord Hussey who was Chief Butler of England, Sir Robert Constable, and Bigod, all of whom were convicted of treason and executed. On March 1537 Thomas Moigne, Member of Parliament for Lincoln was hanged, drawn and quartered. Lords Darcy and Hussey were both beheaded, whilst Bigod was hanged at Tyburn, and Constable hanged in chains at Hull. Aske was also hanged in chains from the walls of York Castle as a warning to other would-be 'rebels'. In all, 216 were put to death; lords and knights, half a dozen abbots, 38 monks, and 16 parish priests, including :Sir Thomas Percy, Sir Stephen Hamerton, Sir William Lumley, Sir John Constable, Sir William Constable, Adam Sedbar, Abbot of Jervaulx, William Trafford, Abbot of Sawley, Matthew Mackarel, Abbot of Barlings and Bishop of Chalcedon, William Thirsk, Abbot of Fountains and the Prior of Bridlington were all executed and hanged at Tyburn between June and July 1537. Bowbearer of the Forest of Bowland Sir Nicholas Tempest was hanged at Tyburn Sir John Bulmer and his wife Margaret Stafford were also executed, Sir John by being hanged, drawn and quartered whilst his wife was burnt at the stake in Smithfield, London. On November 1538 Keeper of the Sewer Sir Edward Neville was beheaded for his part in the conspiracy. The loss of the leaders enabled the Duke of Norfolk to quell the rising and martial law was imposed upon the demonstrating regions, ending predication.​

One is surprised to see blanket approval is such actions because "it was war".

And it was not so different from similar events in the OT. A lot of people would not have salvation if it had not happened. There was no peaceful way to make it happen. How much more clear can I make it?

Weren't the wars in the old testament commanded by God? A prophet or another person led by God calling for war?

 

[Rev Randy]

Isn't it a matter of perspective that drives who one thinks was right and who wrong? It surely is not objective to say "protestants were right and catholics wrong". In the old testament it is God's direct commands that are alleged as justification for war. Which of the reformers was a prophet of God? This is a rhetorical question whose answer is "none". What about Mennonites, Amish, and multitudes of people who refuse to war against others for conscience's sake?

You can add Quakers to that list.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You can add Quakers to that list.

Yes, the Quakers too. In fact, among Catholics, are found a number of pacifist groups.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Betcha he also gets all warm and fuzzy when he reads about Hugonots (French Calvinists) burning Catholics too. Just makes one proud to be Protestant eh?

Lol, your a Lutheran this is SO IRONIC. I bet you get all warm and fuzzy when you read about people getting burned at the stake by Catholics trying to translate the Bible into english. Oh wait no you cant it would be so ironic since your Lutheran......................

Yup, just like I get all warm and fuzzy when I think about the Lutherans that were burnt by Hugonots in France (them's protestants mind ya!), which contributed greatly to why my ancestors are here (they came from Alsace).

 

[Erose]

I did not have enough space to type it out, so I posted the videos. I know it's about twenty hours of material, but it thoroughly covers the topic. I have watched them all through completely.

So what you are saying is that YOU really have no response? You made some claims, which I know you cut and pasted, but if you are going to post those claims and proclaim them as your own thoughts as well, then you need to be able to defend them. Posting a bunch of videos isn't a response.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Lol, your a Lutheran this is SO IRONIC. I bet you get all warm and fuzzy when you read about people getting burned at the stake by Catholics trying to translate the Bible into english. Oh wait no you cant it would be so ironic since your Lutheran......................

Lutherans were mainly German Speaking in the 1530s so English bibles were of no special value to them. And English language bibles were already in existence in the 14th century - more than 100 years before Tyndale met with his unfortunate fate. By the way, Tyndale was strangled and then his body was burned - a kind of cremation. He was charged with heresy not with translating a bible into English.

Tyndale denounced the practice of prayer to saints. He taught justification by faith, the return of Christ, and mortality of the soul.​

And as I observed the bible was already available in English.

 

[Erose]

HUGE error right here...

Is it a huge error when people bow out of respect to the queen of England? (Most of them are Protestant who do so.) Or any other king in their country? And yet the woman who gave birth to OUR salvation, deserves no respect?