What errors and inventions arose in Roman Catholicism?

[Tzaousios]

It was a war, and the salvation of many was at stake. I have no problem with how it happened.

So now you support the murder of priests and the destruction of Catholic property that was perpetrated during the war?

 

[Pteriax]

So now you support the murder of priests and the destruction of Catholic property that was perpetrated during the war?

It was a war, as I said. I support whatever needed to happen to win it. People die in war. I am glad the reformation happened, and if a war was the only way to bring it about, then it was a good thing, just as the destruction of Nineveh was a good thing.

 

[Tzaousios]

It was a war, as I said. I support whatever needed to happen to win it. People die in war. I am glad the reformation happened, and if a war was the only way to bring it about, then it was a good thing, just as the destruction of Nineveh was a good thing.

I am not talking about two sides in uniforms fighting for internationally recognized political entities. Rather, the murder and destruction perpetrated upon Catholics outside the confines of warfare. Do you?

 

[Pteriax]

I am not talking about two sides in uniforms fighting for internationally recognized political entities. Rather, the murder and destruction perpetrated upon Catholics outside the confines of warfare. Do you?

Of course, although I consider it a war. Who struck first doesn't matter. They were in the right, the Catholics were in the wrong. How often does God condone war in the Bible? A lot, as I recall, when done for the right reasons. In fact the only people who are really pacifists that claim to be Christian as far as I know are the JWs, and that's a cult.

 

[Tzaousios]

Of course, although I consider it a war. Who struck first doesn't matter. They were in the right, the Catholics were in the wrong. How often does God condone war in the Bible? A lot, as I recall, when done for the right reasons. In fact the only people who are really pacifists that claim to be Christian as far as I know are the JWs, and that's a cult.

If you are indicating that you think I am a pacifist, I am not. However, it appears you are dancing around the import of what I asked above. I don't see how much more explicitly it could be asked.

 

[Pteriax]

If you are indicating that you think I am a pacifist, I am not.

Not at all.

However, it appears you are dancing around the import of what I asked above. I don't see how much more explicitly it could be asked.

I answered. I approve of what happened. I am glad it happened. It needed to happen. It was justified and in my opinion ordained by God. And it was not so different from similar events in the OT. A lot of people would not have salvation if it had not happened. There was no peaceful way to make it happen. How much more clear can I make it?

 

[Tzaousios]

I answered. I approve of what happened. I am glad it happened. It needed to happen. It was justified and in my opinion ordained by God. And it was not so different from similar events in the OT. A lot of people would not have salvation if it had not happened. There was no peaceful way to make it happen. How much more clear can I make it?

No, it is not similar, neither in historical context, nor in the sides that were killing each other. In the Old Testament, it was the monotheistic Israelites against the polytheistic, pagan Canaanites. In the slaughter of the Peasants' War, it was Christians against Christians. Please don't tell me you are about to play the "Catholic = PAGAN" card here.

It really seems that you are trying a bit too hard to maintain your tough guy persona with the "someone to hate" and all. Why stoop to supporting the murder of fellow Christians and the destruction of their property?

 

[Pteriax]

No, it is not similar, neither in historical context, nor in the sides that were killing each other. In the Old Testament, it was the monotheistic Israelites against the polytheistic, pagan Canaanites.

Right, same basic thing.

In the slaughter of the Peasants' War, it was Christians against Christians. Please don't tell me you are about to play the "Catholic = PAGAN" card here.

You know that I am. I have said before that saved Catholics are saved despite their church and not because of it. At least I don't think it is the religion of the antichrist like SDAs do.

It really seems that you are trying a bit too hard to maintain your tough guy persona with the "someone to hate" and all.

This seems a bit too personal considering the forum rules, don't you think? What persona are you playing with all the Greek? What difference does it make? I am who I am and you are who you are, and it has got jack to do with the topic.

Why stoop to supporting the murder of fellow Christians and the destruction of their property?

Simple. I don't consider it murder for starters. I consider it justice, and I imagine those peasants felt the same way.

 

[Tzaousios]

Right, same basic thing.

No, it is not. You are ignoring context entirely so that you can maintain the persona.

You know that I am. I have said before that saved Catholics are saved despite their church and not because of it. At least I don't think it is the religion of the antichrist like SDAs do.

I would have thought you would take a more intelligent approach than the status quo for GT. So tell me, if Catholicism is Paganism, and Catholics are pagans, than how are they saved if they reject Christ for their paganism?

This seems a bit too personal considering the forum rules, don't you think? What persona are you playing with all the Greek? What difference does it make?

No, it is not. I am going by the tenor of your posts as well as information that you have provided. As for me, the "Greek stuff" is something that I like because Greek is a primary research language that I use as a Byzantine historian.

Now, tell me, is "someone to hate," calling non-Protestant non-Calvinists "pagan," and obstinately pledging support for murder and destruction part of your persona?

I am who I am and you are who you are, and it has got jack to do with the topic.

It most certainly does have something to do with the topic because it is dictating what you are now supporting.

Simple. I don't consider it murder for starters. I consider it justice, and I imagine those peasants felt the same way.

Wow. You are one of the first Calvinists I have come across that have not even attempted to reconcile basic Christian morality with divine command theory. What made you turn to moral relativism?

 

[Pteriax]

No, it is not. You are ignoring context entirely so that you can maintain the persona.

I am doing no such thing. I honestly believe what I am telling you.

I would have thought you would take a more intelligent approach than the status quo for GT. So tell me, if Catholicism is Paganism, and Catholics are pagans, than how are they saved if they reject Christ for their paganism?

Most Catholics I have met don't follow the sacraments and decrees of the church and simply have faith in Jesus. Yet they go to Catholic church and claim to be Catholic.

No, it is not. I am going by the tenor of your posts as well as information that you have provided. As for me, the "Greek stuff" is something that I like because Greek is a primary research language that I use as a Byzantine historian.

I disagree, we are supposed to debate topics here, but whatever.

Now, tell me, is "someone to hate," calling non-Protestant non-Calvinists "pagan," and obstinately pledging support for murder and destruction part of your persona?

Someone to hate is the title of one of my favorite Christian metal songs, nothing more, nothing less. My avatar is the band logo. Pagans are people who follow esoteric traditions instead of the Bible. I do not support murder, but I do support a peasant uprising that helps start a reformation that saves millions and billions of souls in the long run, while simultaneously dealing a little rough justice on their spiritual oppressors. Nothing to do with any bogus persona.

It most certainly does have something to do with the topic because it is dictating what you are now supporting.

Whatever.

Wow. You are one of the first Calvinists I have come across that have not even attempted to reconcile basic Christian morality with divine command theory. What made you turn to moral relativism?

It's not moral relativism, that would be universalist new age hogwash. Killing can in some cases be moral. Killing to protect the innocent for example, or executing a serial killer. This is not relative, it relates to absolute right and absolute wrong. Some people cross into a gray area, but the absolutes remain absolute. Killing people who were forcefully making God a commodity to be bought and sold and costing people their souls as a consequence seems okay in this case. Especially since it was either kill or be killed as heretics for disobeying the 'almighty' Catholic church.

 

[yogosans14]

Betcha he also gets all warm and fuzzy when he reads about Hugonots (French Calvinists) burning Catholics too. Just makes one proud to be Protestant eh?

Lol, your a Lutheran this is SO IRONIC. I bet you get all warm and fuzzy when you read about people getting burned at the stake by Catholics trying to translate the Bible into english. Oh wait no you cant it would be so ironic since your Lutheran......................

 

[yogosans14]

HUGE error right here...

 

[Rev Randy]

First, define "evangelical."

Non-liturgical.

 

[Rev Randy]

HUGE error right here...

How so? Do you think these people are praying to the statue?

 

[yogosans14]

How so? Do you think these people are praying to the statue?

Its odd how they all crowd around a STATUE. I mean come on...

 

[Tzaousios]

Its odd how they all crowd around a STATUE. I mean come on...

What would you say about Evangelical Protestants praying beside holy sites in Jerusalem?

 

[Rev Randy]

Its odd how they all crowd around a STATUE. I mean come on...

Crowding is good. I love it during worship. So are you praying to the wall or whatever is in front of you when you pray? Do you ever pray with your hand in the Bible?
Being Orthodox i'm not really into statues but into images, smells, touch and taste. It's similar enough for me to understand those I see in prayer before a statue.
Being creature having senses, we use what God gave us to set the mood, inspire and contemplate. Images and other things that affect our senses help bring us to the mindset we need to be in for worship. our goal is to forget ourselves and focus on Christ. Now you might wonder how this is done before an image of mary or a Saint. We see Christ in them.
Now if that photo struck you as odd, then this Orthodox photo will blow your mind.

Yes, he is kissing it.

 

[yogosans14]

What would you say about Evangelical Protestants praying beside holy sites in Jerusalem?

I dont believe they refer a holy site as the "queen of Heaven"

“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN...that they may provoke me to anger” —Jeremiah 7:18

 

[Tzaousios]

I dont believe they refer a holy site as the "queen of Heaven"

“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN...that they may provoke me to anger” —Jeremiah 7:18

So you have no answer. By the way, your prooftext has nothing to do with what you want it to have. Everyone has seen this rhetoric before and are not impressed.

 

[yogosans14]

So you have no answer. By the way, your prooftext has nothing to do with what you want it to have. Everyone has seen this rhetoric before and are not impressed.

Whatever, all I know is that I dont need a rosary or a pope to be saved, only Jesus