What does the left really stand for now?

[Rachel20]

The left seems to me to be the same liberal big government mess that it was before, just with more LGBTQ+ concerns. It's the right I don't recognize any more, shifting radically from conservative to Trumpist.

Possibly, but I don't see it as "Trumpist" so much as anti-establishment politics-as-usual. What I observed as a conservative under 8 years of Obama was the R politicians always fighting for us, but never winning, to the point it started seeming like a power-sharing wink-wink game. In otherwords, I stopped trusting the R politicians, and since they too hated Trump, it made me trust him more. If that makes sense.

 

[d taylor]

What I see is people whove been taught that^ by right wing indignation peddler media.

Well tell us what do yall want.

 

[Yttrium]

Possibly, but I don't see it as "Trumpist" so much as anti-establishment politics-as-usual. What I observed as a conservative under 8 years of Obama was the R politicians always fighting for us, but never winning, to the point it started seeming like a power-sharing wink-wink game. In otherwords, I stopped trusting the R politicians, and since they too hated Trump, it made me trust him more. If that makes sense.

Well, now that you mention it, I guess Trump can be trusted to oust the establishment. That's the only thing I would consider trusting Trump with. But replacing the establishment with Trump yes-men isn't appealing to me.

 

[durangodawood]

The left seems to me to be the same liberal big government mess that it was before, just with more LGBTQ+ concerns. It's the right I don't recognize any more, shifting radically from conservative to Trumpist.

This is right on. Except the LGBTQ stuff is a bit overblown, especially by "trad morality" fear mongers. A lot of stoking of the culture war fires.

And while the left is the same big govt mess, they are the ones staying within the constitutional guardrails and not having the leader of their party sign on to complete insanities like "alternate slates of electors" and so on.

 

[durangodawood]

Well tell us what do yall want.

I'm not sure I speak for them. I'm a liitle all over the map, politically.

For me the main thing I want is for the center of any party I support to be reality connected. I cant believe its come to that. But its more critical than big/small govt or this/that policy - and its now a genuine concern.

 

[Rachel20]

they are the ones staying within the constitutional guardrails.

They're the ones wanting the constitution to be viewed as a living/breathing document, so that the justices effectively become a legislative branch. They're the ones making people think the alphabet agencies (EPA, BLM, OSHA, etc...) can legislate as well, but they can't - Congress can't delegate these powers. I really disagree with you on this one.

And ... never in my life has my job been threatened if I didn't turn my body over to the state (jab mandates). Or my ability to move freely, etc...

 

[Pommer]

Possibly, but I don't see it as "Trumpist" so much as anti-establishment politics-as-usual. What I observed as a conservative under 8 years of Obama was the R politicians always fighting for us, but never winning, to the point it started seeming like a power-sharing wink-wink game. In otherwords, I stopped trusting the R politicians, and since they too hated Trump, it made me trust him more. If that makes sense.

A major problem that has crept into American politics is the notion that the minority party in the House (and of late the Senate) must be an opposition party.
But this notion (I blame Newt) doesn’t work under our system as it (the notion) is a “feature” of parliamentary politics.
Our system depends on good, honest (for the most part) people acting in good faith for the “common good” and less adherence to this or that political philosophy (or sets of policy choices).

 

[d taylor]

I'm not sure I speak for them. I'm a liitle all over the map, politically.

For me the main thing I want is for the center of any party I support to be reality connected. I cant believe its come to that. But its more critical than big/small govt or this/that policy - and its now a genuine concern.

What does reality connected mean. Is that a general reality or a very specific idea.

Seems to me that would be a very hard area to accomplish. As concerning people they usually construct their own reality. I think a perfect (or at least a good example) example of this is the divisions seen on the forum between denominational beliefs, who have established their own religious reality and some even political.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

The left doesn't stand for anything. They float like a buoy and drift wherever the current takes them. Which is usual down the slippery slope.

 

[Pommer]

They're the ones wanting the constitution to be viewed as a living/breathing document, so that the justices effectively become a legislative branch. They're the ones making people think the alphabet agencies (EPA, BLM, OSHA, etc...) can legislate as well, but they can't - Congress can't delegate these powers. I really disagree with you on this one.

If Congress creates a law, (let’s say the Clean Air Act), how would Congress enforce that law?

 

[Rachel20]

If Congress creates a law, (let’s say the Clean Air Act), how would Congress enforce that law?

Enforcement isn't their duty. Their duty is to pass clear laws with limited boundaries, not write blank checks to alphabet people who are unelected and unaccountable to the people.

 

[eleos1954]

The left seems to me to be the same liberal big government mess that it was before, just with more LGBTQ+ concerns. It's the right I don't recognize any more, shifting radically from conservative to Trumpist.

What is a "Trumpist" ? What is a conservative?

 

[SilverBear]

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The left as i see it wants a liberal government dictatorial rule. Ideally where all government officials are liberal and will control the citizens from the position of. We (liberals) are of greater intelligence and know what is best for everyone, so follow our agenda/rule.

By the same token I see the right wanting a fascist government dictatorial rule. Ideally were all government officials are conservative and will control the citizens from a position of We (conservatives) are of proper morals and know what everyone should do think and believe, minorities need to be kept in their places and away from good people so everyone follow our agenda/rule.

 

[Pommer]

Enforcement isn't their duty. Their duty is to pass clear laws with limited boundaries, not write blank checks to alphabet people who are unelected and unaccountable to the people.

Exactly.
Enforcement is left to the Executive Branch.
But The Executive Branch cannot create agencies willy-nilly, which is why Congress creates the agency (that will be the enforcement arm of the government) within the Act.

 

[rjs330]

The left seems to me to be the same liberal big government mess that it was before, just with more LGBTQ+ concerns. It's the right I don't recognize any more, shifting radically from conservative to Trumpist.

Trump supported the vastajority of things the conservatives have been concerned about for 40 years. He was the one that really started to address those things.

That's why people liked his presidency. He was the man who finally listened. While Trump himself was a real jerk and a sore loser he had the ear for the people.

Most of us conservatives dont really want him back. We can find someone who still addresses the issues without his rotten personality. At least I hope we can. This is what the left misses to often because they are so focused on the person. The person was the embodiment of ideas.

While a crummy representative as a person some of the feeling still remains. Is anyone listening? I hope so and I hope it's not just Trump.

I hope others are listening. Cause I don't want him back.

 

[rjs330]

By the same token I see the right wanting a fascist government dictatorial rule. Ideally were all government officials are conservative and will control the citizens from a position of We (conservatives) are of proper morals and know what everyone should do think and believe, minorities need to be kept in their places and away from good people so everyone follow our agenda/rule.

See, the lies just keep coming from the left. As long as you keep lying about us there is little to come together on.

 

[Pommer]

By the same token I see the right wanting a fascist government dictatorial rule. Ideally were all government officials are conservative and will control the citizens from a position of We (conservatives) are of proper morals and know what everyone should do think and believe, minorities need to be kept in their places and away from good people so everyone follow our agenda/rule.

I’m not yet seeing the (IMO) required Nationalism mythos that must proceed a fascist state; the right is still wedded to the “individual freedom” mantra that would have to disappear (or be greatly curtailed) under a fascist regime and require adherence to the Nationalist mythos.

 

[Pommer]

See, the lies just keep coming from the left. As long as you keep lying about us there is little to come together on.

We have to end the endless bickering and fighting and get down to actually talking to each other again.
The “left” in our country is “conservative” anywhere else in the world; there are real, actual lefties in the Democratic Party but they are currently not in positions of leadership due to the Old Guard hanging onto power with a vise-like grip.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Is this about right?

Of course it is not that simple, not that binary. It is more like a spectrum.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

This is interesting: