What Does the Christian Community say about Near Death Experiences?

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Basil the Great said:
[Most here at CF would not approve of them, as the vast majority of near death experiences have positive outcomes and this goes against the belief that most people are on the road to Hell.

QUOTE="East of Eden, post: 75767896, member: 433172"]Exactly. Satan would love people to have a false sense of security by thinking they're going to heaven. This is what Rod Dreher calls 'Moralistic Therapeutic Deism', the general belief that God exists, and wants nothing more from us than to be nice and to be happy.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't sure how to take Basil's comment. At first, I took it literally. You appear to take it the same way. I was a bit taken aback by this. I didn't realize that most here are under the belief that most people are on the road to Hell. Not so sure I'm among that crowd, myself. Then I got to thinking that maybe Basil's comment was sarcasm aimed at most here for conveying such a belief.
 
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CatsRule2020

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The military veteran's death accounts are the most reliable out there. I prefer the debriefing style that the veteran Steve Gardipee gives in his YouTube account.
These accounts do not contradict the Bible's truth upon the finale destination of each one of us. What they do is verify that a different kind of life does exist beyond this dimension.
 
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Davy

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You cannot very well have a Near Death Experience if there's no apparent physical death. And even if that were present, it wouldn't be an NDE if, while "dead," the person didn't experience anything that can't be explained away.

Acts 8:39-40
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

KJV

Philip did not have an NDE. The Lord simply transported him, in his flesh, to another location on earth. The question whether Philip had an NDE because of that "caught away" idea, for it is the same Greek clause as "caught up" in 1 Thess.4 and 2 Cor.12.

So once again, an NDE happens because we each have a "silver cord" that keeps our flesh body and spirit (with soul) together. And at flesh death it is severed, and our flesh body goes back to the earthly elements where it came from, but our spirit (with soul) goes back to God Who gave it (this per Eccl.12:5-7). An NDE happens only if the "silver cord"stays intact. With Clint Walker's case, even though he was pronounced dead by two doctors, the end result showed that he was not dead.
 
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Albion

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With Clint Walker's case, even though he was pronounced dead by two doctors, the end result showed that he was not dead.
As I recall, the issue with him was whether or not he had an NDE experience, not whether or not he had died.
 
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Davy

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As I recall, the issue with him was whether or not he had an NDE experience, not whether or not he had died.

Yeah, and so? By Clint Walker's testimony he had a NDE. If he had died, he would not have been alive to give that testimony, so what's the issue? There really is none. He had an NDE, which means the person isn't really dead. An NDE is not a resurrection of the dead.
 
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Davy

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Exactly. Satan would love people to have a false sense of security by thinking they're going to heaven. This is what Rod Dreher calls 'Moralistic Therapeutic Deism', the general belief that God exists, and wants nothing more from us than to be nice and to be happy.

The Biblical fact still is... like Eccl.12:5-7 shows, we each have a "silver cord" that keeps our spirit (with soul) attached to our flesh body. And at flesh death that silver cord is severed, and our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, but our spirit (with soul) goes back to God Who gave it. That means our spirit/soul manifests back in the heavenly dimension where it originated. And that is what Lord Jesus showed in Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man when they died, and their bodies were buried. The rich man found himself taken to the abode of hell, across a great gulf fixed border from where Lazarus was taken to the bosom of Abraham. That is where we all go when we die, either to one side or the other.
 
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Davy

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From what I remember, he gained some insights or felt at ease or enlightened or something like that. If so, that wouldn't be an NDE.

He had an NDE. He said he found himself in that other body they say we all have, and suddenly knew things he never knew before. He said that other body was a whole lot more comfortable than this flesh one.
 
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Albion

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He had an NDE. He said he found himself in that other body they say we all have, and suddenly knew things he never knew before. He said that other body was a whole lot more comfortable than this flesh one.

That's not a Near Death Experience as the term is correctly understood. It's a report on what he thinks passing into the afterlife feels like.

He might be right about what he reported. Or he might be wrong. There's nothing in that report which could not be true, and there is nothing in it which we can see immediately would be impossible except for this event he was referring to.

It's interesting, sure, but it's no different from thousands of other such claims about passing from life to death, seeing one's relatives, being welcomed by Christ, walking in clover, following a bright light upwards or etc. Could be. Or maybe not.

In the conventional NDE, the person reports something we can verify and which he could not otherwise have known.

That's what makes an NDE so intriguing. How to explain it away? It's easy to explain away (or agree with, if you prefer) what Clint Walker said of his purported passage from this life to the next. Feel enlightened in the spirit world? Sure. Feel at peace when entering the next life? Sure. We can easily accept that such a transition as this might and probably does take place, so it's not the same as the experiences labelled NDEs.
 
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BobRyan

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Exactly. Satan would love people to have a false sense of security by thinking they're going to heaven. This is what Rod Dreher calls 'Moralistic Therapeutic Deism', the general belief that God exists, and wants nothing more from us than to be nice and to be happy.

Then in that POV the one giving them these visions/dreams/experiences is satan.
 
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BobRyan

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Exactly. Satan would love people to have a false sense of security by thinking they're going to heaven. This is what Rod Dreher calls 'Moralistic Therapeutic Deism', the general belief that God exists, and wants nothing more from us than to be nice and to be happy.

Then in that POV the one giving them these visions/dreams/experiences is satan.

What about the other option - is it possible that they really went to heaven and then "oops" got pulled back? (I don't think so but some people would say this is the other option)
 
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Davy

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That's not a Near Death Experience as the term is correctly understood. It's a report on what he thinks passing into the afterlife feels like.

He might be right about what he reported. Or he might be wrong. There's nothing in that report which could not be true, and there is nothing in it which we can see immediately would be impossible except for this event he was referring to.

It's interesting, sure, but it's no different from thousands of other such claims about passing from life to death, seeing one's relatives, being welcomed by Christ, walking in clover, following a bright light upwards or etc. Could be. Or maybe not.

In the conventional NDE, the person reports something we can verify and which he could not otherwise have known.

That's what makes an NDE so intriguing. How to explain it away? It's easy to explain away (or agree with, if you prefer) what Clint Walker said of his purported passage from this life to the next. Feel enlightened in the spirit world? Sure. Feel at peace when entering the next life? Sure. We can easily accept that such a transition as this might and probably does take place, so it's not the same as the experiences labelled NDEs.

I think you're confused, not understanding how God created us, nor about the two dimensions. A near-death-experience simply means having an experience of that other dimension of existence. There are only TWO dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, this earthly one, and the heavenly one. The flesh represents this one, but our spirit/soul represents the heavenly one. I declared the Scripture proof of this in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 (and in Matthew 10:28 in other places about the 'soul' part), but you bypassed that Biblical proof, and instead revert to man's philosophy of what an NDE is.

Those in Christ Jesus shouldn't care what man's philosophy says, but what God's Word shows.

2 Cor 12:2-4
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.


3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)


4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

KJV

That "caught up" phrase is the same Greek phrase in 1 Thessalonians 4 about being 'caught up' to Jesus when He returns. So what PART of our being was 'caught up' there that Paul is declaring?? Obviously the person there that was caught up to the third heaven did not die, since he lived to tell about the experience. Nor can one just say that was not an NDE, just because man's philosophy says an NDE has to follow 'their' own guidelines.
 
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Albion

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I think you're confused, not understanding how God created us, nor about the two dimensions. A near-death-experience simply means having an experience of that other dimension of existence.

No, it doesn't. But since you don't appear willing to consider anything I've offered, please read up on the matter in the studies done by researchers. The research and case histories published by Raymond A. Moody, Jr. are good sources, and he has an open mind about the topic.
 
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Davy

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Then in that POV the one giving them these visions/dreams/experiences is satan.

What about the other option - is it possible that they really went to heaven and then "oops" got pulled back? (I don't think so but some people would say this is the other option)

One stuck on old Jewish traditions will not understand this matter, because Jewish tradition wrongly teaches that for a soul to manifest, it requires a flesh body. That is not really true, since Lord Jesus showed in Scripture like Matthew 10:28 that those who can kill our flesh body cannot kill our soul. That means our flesh and our soul are two separate operations. Soul does not... equal flesh.

This is why Nicodemus in John 3 was confused about being 'born again' (which actually means born from above), because he didn't understand the two separate operations between flesh and spirit.

Apostle Paul showed in 2 Corinthians 5 that if our flesh tabernacle were dissolved, we have another body not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens. He didn't mean that other body would be suddenly created sometime in the future, like at Christ's return. He meant we have it 'now', inside our flesh. If you want to think scientifically, it's our spirit body inside our flesh that supports our communication system with God. It is how The Holy Spirit works through us, not by our flesh, but by our spirit inside our flesh. When we believe on Christ Jesus and are 'born again', it is our spirit inside our flesh that is 'born again', not our flesh.

I fail to see why so many here seem to struggle with understanding this.
 
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Davy

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No, it doesn't. But since you don't appear willing to consider anything I've offered, please read up on the matter in the studies done by researchers. The research and case histories published by Raymond A. Moody, Jr. are good sources, and he has an open mind about the topic.

Nah, why heed man's philosophy when we have God's Word on the matter? I choose God's Word. You can default to man if you want.
 
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Albion

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Nah, why heed man's philosophy when we have God's Word on the matter? I choose God's Word. You can default to man if you want.

This discussion is about NDEs. It is not a challenge to Christianity, not an alternative to Christianity, not an attack upon the Bible, or anything of the sort.
 
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Davy

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This discussion is about NDEs. It is not a challenge to Christianity, not an alternative to Christianity, not an attack upon the Bible, or anything of the sort.

Like I said, if you want to resort to men's philosophy on this topic, that's your choice. I will resort to God's Word about it, and God's Word does... cover it. That's all I have to say to you about it.
 
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Albion

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Like I said, if you want to resort to men's philosophy on this topic, that's your choice.
There's no philosophy involved! NDEs are an unexplained phenomenon that neither challenges the Bible nor confirms it. The phenomenon is simply what it is.
 
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BobRyan

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One stuck on old Jewish traditions will not understand this matter, because Jewish tradition wrongly teaches that for a soul to manifest, it requires a flesh body. That is not really true, since Lord Jesus showed in Scripture like Matthew 10:28 that those who can kill our flesh body cannot kill our soul. That means our flesh and our soul are two separate operations. Soul does not... equal flesh.

This is why Nicodemus in John 3 was confused about being 'born again' (which actually means born from above), because he didn't understand the two separate operations between flesh and spirit.

Apostle Paul showed in 2 Corinthians 5 that if our flesh tabernacle were dissolved, we have another body not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens. He didn't mean that other body would be suddenly created sometime in the future, like at Christ's return. He meant we have it 'now', inside our flesh. If you want to think scientifically, it's our spirit body inside our flesh that supports our communication system with God. It is how The Holy Spirit works through us, not by our flesh, but by our spirit inside our flesh. When we believe on Christ Jesus and are 'born again', it is our spirit inside our flesh that is 'born again', not our flesh.

I fail to see why so many here seem to struggle with understanding this.

I don't think that is the issue -

You are talking about a so-called "immortal soul" which I think everyone or almost-everyone on this thread already believes in - even those who think the NDE idea of dead people coming back to life and then telling stories about what they saw while dead - also believe in an immortal soul.

"Some people" define the term "immortal soul" (not found in the Bible) as the Matt 10:28 statement of Christ (as you quoted) and if that were actually the strict limit of the term we all used -- then I too would claim to believe in the immortal soul teaching since it shows as you say that
1. The soul survives the death of the body
2. The soul is not destroyed at death but rather still exists even though the body is destroyed
3. That both body AND soul are destroyed in fiery hell.

The "QUESTION" is (the differences come from this) -- "and is the soul conscious or asleep/dormant while in that separated state"? and in John 11 "our FRIEND Lazarus sleeps I go that I may wake HIM" -- so then no NDE is possible where someone dies and then comes back and tells a story a few days later about what their soul was doing while the body was dead.

1 Thess 4:13-18 also puts the person in the "sleep state" during that period of time - so they too could not later be resurrected and tell lots of stories about what they were doing while dead in true NDE fashion.
 
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BobRyan

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I think you're confused, not understanding how God created us, nor about the two dimensions. A near-death-experience simply means having an experience of that other dimension of existence. There are only TWO dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, this earthly one, and the heavenly one. The flesh represents this one, but our spirit/soul represents the heavenly one. I declared the Scripture proof of this in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 (and in Matthew 10:28 in other places about the 'soul' part),

Almost everyone on this thread already believes that the soul survives death Matt 10:28, Eccl 12:5-7 in some form.. the question is what form.

One of the options "The sleep/dormant" option of John 11, Matt 22, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Ecclesiastes 9:5 -- does not allow for the NDE interpretation for what has happened in those cases.

Here is what I would call a "legit" NDE - where someone is near death (near the point of being killed) and encounters Christ


So in that example the atheist/communist person was close to dying but was never in a condition where her body was dead.

(BTW - SHARE THAT with your friends especially if they are atheist / non-Christian etc.. it is great)

The other option - allows for the possibility of NDE - but some folks say "well yes that NDE explanation could be, but for some reason I just choose not to fully believe that NDE explanation".
 
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