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Featured What Does the Christian Community say about Near Death Experiences?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hanging by a Thread, Feb 20, 2021.

  1. Hanging by a Thread

    Hanging by a Thread Member

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    I really don’t know the answer even though I call myself a Christian. I get the feeling that all of these NDE reports I’ve recently discovered won’t be well received here, falling somewhere under the false prophet category. And I’ll admit that, under my current little crisis of faith, I’m vulnerable to grabbing at anything that will work for me. But I’m finding some hope in these. And there doesn’t seem to be much scientific explanation to dispute the claims, so much so that Doctors and Scientists are actually looking into the phenomenon in search of an answer. There are consistent similarities – about 5 or 6 bullet points- throughout several accounts over a long period of time spanning geography and spiritual beliefs. The stories and bullet points may not dot all of the I’s and cross all the t’s of scripture, but to me, the stories seem to convey the essence of what we believe and hope for in an afterlife. Which, one could say is the perfect formula for scammers to target someone like, well, me, who’s vulnerable and reaching for answers. And while the consistencies/bullet points serve to validate, they also provide a blueprint for scammers. So, no doubt, there has to be at least some stories out there that are completely made up. But again, there are so many accounts that even the skepticism of science is taking notice. So, what’s the consensus here? Legit or are we calling shenanigans?





     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
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  2. Anthony2019

    Anthony2019 Pax et bonum! CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    I think it's one of those experiences that cannot be proved or disproved.
    I probably won't know whether an NDE is real until I am dying myself!
    I have had out of body experiences caused by sleep paralysis which I get from time to time.
     
  3. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't know. I don't believe that it is necessary or helpful to rely on experiences to validate faith. God's word is sufficient. Choose to believe the facts of what God has done in and through Christ. That is solid rock!

    I've not had NDE but I have had some amazing experiences. Those experiences were good at the time, but they were of no help when the difficult times came. And they always come. It's just a part of life. The old song "On Christ the Solid Rock I stand......" still holds good today.
     
  4. Rene Loup

    Rene Loup Saved Wolf Among Sheep

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    ~Luke 16:19-31 (NIV)

    Bible Gateway passage: Luke 16 - King James Version
    Bible Gateway passage: Luke 16 - New King James Version
    Bible Gateway passage: Luke 16 - New International Version
    Bible Gateway passage: Luke 16 - International Children’s Bible

    Even the Holy Bible outright states that Near Death Experiences are DUBIOUS, AT VERY BEST.

    Dying and coming back from the dead is a gold, platinum, and kryptonite opportunity to make money and/or get attention. Read, study, and KNOW Scripture, ALWAYS!

    The boy who didn't come back from heaven: inside a bestseller's 'deception'


    Publishing world cashes in on heavenly journeys


    ~1 Timothy 6:1-10 (NIV)

    Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 6 - King James Version
    Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 6 - New King James Version
    Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 6 - New International Version
    Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 6 - International Children’s Bible

    ~2 Timothy 3 (NIV)

    Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3 - King James Version
    Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3 - New King James Version
    Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3 - New International Version
    Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3 - International Children’s Bible
     
  5. Chris Endrizzi

    Chris Endrizzi New Member

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    GRACE and Peace, Precious friend. I will pray for you! It Is Far Better
    to "Trust In The LORD JESUS"
    than to trust in people's experiences:

    (A) God’s ETERNAL Salvation Is As Simple As Can Be = ”believe”

    The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!:

    “For I [ Paul! ] delivered unto you first of all That Which I also
    received, How That CHRIST Died For our sins According To The
    Scriptures; And That HE Was Buried, And That HE Rose Again
    the third day According To The Scriptures!”
    ( 1 Cor 15 : 3-4 KJB! )
    +
    "For By GRACE are ye SAVED Through faith; and that not of
    yourselves: It Is The Gift of God: Not of works, lest any man
    should boast!"
    ( Eph 2 : 8-9! cp Most of Romans through Philemon # KJB! )
    { GRACE [God's UNmerited Favor] Found 85 Times! }

    # Romans – Philemon KJB! = God's GRACE Love Letters
    For us Today, For: Consolation, Comfort, Edification, Enjoyment,
    Encouragement, And spiritual Building Up Of All The
    BLOOD-Washed "members ( saints!" ) In The Body Of
    CHRIST!, HIS Church, Seated In Heaven! Amen?
    ------------------------------------------------------
    (B) A GRACE Word BEFORE Great GRACE Departure!:

    Praying Also For ALL Dear Precious Readers, That:
    These Written Words Will Be A Blessed Encouragement
    And Comfort To you!


    God's ALL-Sufficient GRACE in infirmities

    Grace And Peace
    to All Dear readers/diligent students of
    God's Holy Word!
    Praying Hopefully The Following Scriptures
    Will Bring God's "Peace, Hope, And Comfort"
    in your life in
    This
    Current Dispensation Of The Amazing GRACE Of A
    Wonderful God!:


    (1) In That GRACE, God, In HIS Omniscience, Had Already
    Chosen HIS Own In CHRIST, And Already Knew What
    "infirmities, trouble, trials, afflictions, sufferings, And
    persecutions we would go through,” And, Thank HIM, HE
    "Promised" HE
    Will Never Give us more testing than we
    can handle.

    (Eph 1:4; 1 Cor 10:13 KJB!) Amen?

    (2) Please,
    Thank God IN {easy},
    And, Also, FOR {Difficult?}, ALL things!
    (1 Thess 5:18; Eph 5:20 KJB!)

    (3) After Paul (our #"pattern"# for Today!), prayed 3 times
    for his affliction, the "Answer he Received," According To The
    Scriptures, Was:


    "And HE {CHRIST} Said Unto me, MY GRACE Is Sufficient For
    thee: For MY Strength Is Made Perfect in weakness. Most gladly
    therefore will I rather glory
    {cp} in my infirmities, that The
    Power Of CHRIST May Rest Upon me!"

    (2 Cor 12:9 KJB!) {cp 2 Cor 11:23-30 KJB!}

    (4) "For our light affliction, which Is But For A Moment, worketh
    for us a Far More
    Exceeding And Eternal weight of glory; While
    we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things
    Which Are Not Seen: for the things which are seen [
    are]
    temporal; but the things Which Are Not Seen Are
    Eternal!"
    (2 Cor 4:17-18 KJB!)

    (5) "For I reckon that The Sufferings of this PRESENT Time
    are not worthy to be compared with The Glory which shall be
    revealed in us. For the earnest EXPECTation of the creature
    WAITeth for the manifestation of the sons of God...


    ...ourselves also, which have The Firstfruits Of The Spirit,
    even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING for
    The Adoption, to wit, The Redemption Of our body!"

    (Rom 8:18, 19, 23 KJB!) Blessed Hope! Amen?

    (6) "Therefore being justified by faith, we have Peace with
    God through our LORD JESUS CHRIST: By Whom also we
    have access by faith into This GRACE Wherein we stand,
    and rejoice in Hope of The Glory of God.

    And not only so, but we glory
    {cp} in tribulations also: knowing
    that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience;
    and experience, Hope: And Hope maketh not ashamed; because
    The Love Of God Is Shed Abroad in our hearts By The Holy Ghost
    Which Is Given Unto us!"

    (Rom 5:1-5 KJB!) {cp 2 Cor 11:23-30 KJB!}

    (7!) ”And HE That Searcheth the hearts Knoweth What Is The
    Mind Of The Spirit, Because HE Maketh Intercession for the
    saints According To The Will Of God. Likewise The Spirit Also
    Helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray
    for as we ought: But The Spirit Itself Maketh Intercession
    For us with groanings which cannot be uttered!”

    (Rom 8:27-28 KJB!)

    (8!) "Blessed Be God, Even The Father Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST,
    The Father Of Mercies, And The God of ALL Comfort; Who Comforteth
    us in All our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which
    are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves Are
    Comforted Of God!"

    (2 Cor 1:3-4 KJB!)

    (9!) Please, always be “watching, Patiently waiting And Looking
    For” That Blessed HOPE, The Imminent Return Of our LORD To
    Take us Home To HEAVEN, In GLORIFICATION! {Thus, ENDING
    ALL of our "infirmities, trouble, trials, afflictions, sufferings, And
    persecutions!”}

    (Eph 6:18; 1 Cor 15:51-57; 2 Cor 5:1-9;
    2 Thess 4:13-18 KJB!) = WONDERFUL Comfort! Amen?

    (10) ”And we know That All things Work Together For Good To
    them that love God, to them who Are The Called According To
    HIS Purpose!”

    (Rom 8:28 KJB!)

    (11a) Please memorize 2 Tim 4:8 KJB!:

    "Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness,
    which The LORD, The Righteous Judge, Shall Give me At That Day:
    and not to me only, but unto all them also that love HIS Appearing!"


    (11b) Please Prayerfully/Carefully study 1 Cor 3:8-15 KJB!,
    And "know" that, At "That Day {The JUDGMENT Seat}” Of CHRIST,
    In HEAVEN, ALL "good works" of loving/helping others WILL Surely
    be "rewarded As gold, silver, And precious stones!"
    Amen?

    (12) For ALL those who humbly:
    Trust CHRIST As their Personal SAVIOUR, The Bible Says:

    a): “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of
    power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”

    (2 Tim 1:7 KJB!)

    b): “Be careful [anxious] for nothing; but in every thing by
    prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests
    be made known unto God. And the PEACE Of God, Which Passeth
    all understanding, Shall Keep your hearts and minds through
    CHRIST JESUS.


    Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are True, whatsoever
    things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever
    things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever
    things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there
    be any praise, think on these things.”

    (Phi 4:6-8 KJB!)

    c): # “Those things, which ye have both learned, and
    received, and heard, and seen in me, [Paul!] do:
    # And
    The God Of PEACE Shall Be With you.”

    (Phi 4:9 KJB!)

    Conclusion:

    "For unto you It Is Given in the Behalf Of CHRIST, not only
    to believe on HIM, But Also to suffer for HIS Sake"

    (Phi 1:29 KJB!)
    ------------------------------
    Again, ALL Precious friends, please:

    Always Be Very RICHLY Blessed In The LORD And Saviour, JESUS CHRIST!

    "To The Praise And The Glory Of HIS {Amazing} GRACE!"



     
  6. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    Closest i have come to an NDE was when i nearly ended up kissing the Rottweiler next door!
     
  7. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Most here at CF would not approve of them, as the vast majority of near death experiences have positive outcomes and this goes against the belief that most people are on the road to Hell.
     
  8. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Hello, "Hanging." There have been several threads here dealing with NDEs. You may want to check up on them as there was a lot of discussion with various viewpoints being presented.

    As I recall, some of the main issues were these:

    1. What exactly constitutes a Near Death Experience? There is some misunderstanding about NDEs, with some people thinking they're premonitions or dreams or something other than what an NDE is.

    2. Also, there was a division among the posters about whether or not the reports are convincing. That, however, also seemed to get intertwined with whether or not what was being evaluated actually qualified as an NDE.
     
  9. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So, you are talking about ones claiming to be Christians who are claiming to have near-death experiences.

    I can see the possibility how God could give a child an experience which mature scholars of the Bible would consider to be inaccurate . . . a cartoon version, maybe we could say.

    After all > ones call Jesus our Solid Rock, right? But anyone can understand this is not even a cartoon representation of Jesus . . . considering how Jesus is the Creator of all rocks. Plus, He is not a dead and hard rock, but very alive and tenderhearted . . . not quite like rocks I have known :) But we can understand what God's word means.

    So, I would not evaluate a near-death experience only by what doctorate Biblical scholars might dictate to be standards of accuracy.

    But Jesus does say,

    "if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" in Matthew 5:46.

    From this, I see how Jesus does not want us to only love certain friends and family members, but He desires for us to become all-loving . . . including ready to adopt any people to become our own brothers and sisters in Christ. So, going by this, we might have some issues about a person saying he or she saw one's grandmother or some other close relative and that that is what Heaven is so about. Because Jesus wants us to have many very close family members . . . adopted . . . who have become so dear to us. Plus, in eternity with Jesus, all of us will be intimate and so special to one another.

    So, as I am told of various near death items which tend to have a person seeing some one or two favorite people . . . I am concerned about if this is accurate. In fact, I would say, family members and friends can be love idols which keep us from loving any and all people as ourselves, and favoritism can keep us from growing as Jesus family.

    So, in case a person in a vision only says, everything is fine, you will be ok, but they say not a word about becoming all-loving and getting over favoritism for that person . . . uh-uh > it isn't about your love idols being there for you, and it is not only about you yourself being all set . . . since in Jesus we care about others as ourselves, so we are not only or mainly concerned about our own selves.

    Plus, even if a person had a near-death experience . . . it is not about status, whatever God shares with each of us. And I think this can fit with how Aussie says if you have such an experience, it may not make you stronger > to me, stronger can mean how God changes our character so we become all-loving in sharing with Jesus and one another as family.

    Plus, our Father does not charge us money for what He has to share with us > "Freely you have received, freely give." (in Mark 10:8) Would you charge money for your own brothers or sisters to get from you what your own father has said or sang or written or prayed to you?

    So - - - we need all which prepares us for Heaven, not only to hear reports of seeing a relative or angels or what Heaven "looks" like. How love is is what we need; we need how God's love has us becoming and relating as His family.

    In case any near-death reports have not helped you like this, here are a few scriptures which can >

    Ephesians 4:31-5:2

    Philippians 2:13-16

    Hebrews 12:4-14

    James 1:19-20

    Colossians 3:15

    1 Peter 3:4

    1 Peter 5:3 > by the way, this says to be "examples" for God's people. Reports might be true, might be fine, but we need our example leaders and mentors who are samples of how God's word means for us to become and grow so we are ready to share eternity with Christ and one another.
     
  10. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Try to get away from thinking of a Near Death Experience as prophesy or a revelation or a vision. They are experiences that seem otherwise to be impossible. And they don't necessarily have anything to do with Christian theology, except that they occur (as the term indicates) to people immediately after what is thought to be the moment of death, so that might bear upon the matter of the immortality of the soul. Otherwise, they are just happenings without an explanation.
     
  11. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    I don't think we can judge them all equally. It's very possible that some are genuinely spiritual while others are products of the mind.
     
  12. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    People who are convinced of the reality of NDEs don't spend much time on ''products of the mind'' since the "thing" about NDEs is that they seem to show the deceased experiencing something known to be factual and correct, but first experiencing it while dead.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  13. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dont think you can expect all believers to agree on anything besides salvation..

    There was a child about 5 at her post-op appointment, told the surgeon where he and others were standing, where the instruments were, what was said, etc. Also, there have been Dr's who have had NDEs.

    Dont believe all NDEs myself. If they see a bright light, it doesnt necessarily mean it was God. Because Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light (II COR 11:14)

    What are their lives like afterwards? Realizing that sometimes it takes awhile to process these NDEs.

    Don Piper and Colton Burpo's accounts I believe.

    For many, death is when they meet the medical definition, the natural one. But we're also spirit. (spirit, soul, and body (I Thess 5:23) .Luk16 account with Father Abraham and Lazarus. 26 "And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

    We dont know when passing that great chasm happens. "For as the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26). For believers, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." (II Cor 5:8). Seems death is when both the spirit and soul leave the body permanently - God decides.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  14. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yeah, most here aren't going to help you any on that, because most here believe we have to have a flesh body to have a soul. They follow men's traditions, old ones, not really God's written Word on this.

    God's Word teaches that we are 3 parts, flesh, spirit, and soul. The New Testament teaches that our spirit with soul can be separated from our flesh. It shows we do not need a flesh body to be alive. It shows two different dimensions exist, and depending on which one we are in, i.e., the earthly or the heavenly, it is with the body of each dimension that we put on.

    1. earthly dimension of matter = flesh body, gets sick, decays, dies

    2. heavenly dimension of Spirit = spiritual body, like the angels, a body of incorruption, the resurrection body, can only be destroyed by God




    Matt 10:28
    28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    KJV

    Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 reveals when the "silver cord" is severed, then our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. Per the above, Lord Jesus showed our 'soul' is included with our spirit that goes back to God. Thus flesh is not the real 'us'. Our spirit with soul is the real 'us'.

    In 2 Corinthians 5, Apostle Paul taught that if our earthly house or tabernacle were dissolved, we have another building of God, not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens. That means present tense, we have a spirit body inside our flesh right now, and at flesh death that other body is released, with our soul.

    In the example of 2 Corinthians 12 where Paul said he knew one who was caught up to the third heaven, he said he didn't know if that happened in the body, or out of the body, that God knows. Paul was likely speaking of himself because he was once stoned and left for dead. If the "silver cord" is not severed, then that is how NDEs can happen, like Clint Walker's ski accident experience above. If our "silver cord" is severed, then it means death, and our flesh body goes back to the earthly elements where it came from.
     
  15. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Everything God does has a purpose.

    Sometimes I think there's various types of NDEs.
    -"And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea." Acts 8:39-40

    Definitely not encouraging anyone to pursue on their own. But if God does it, it's His call
     
  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't see that translation to another place on earth that Phillip experienced really an NDE experience. But the one Paul spoke of in 2 Corinthians 12, I do. The difference is that Phillip's flesh while alive was 'caught up' and simply moved to another location on earth. But with the one in 2 Cor.12, his spirit was 'caught up' while his flesh was still alive, similar to the experience Clint Walker had.

    As Christians, we are to understand this matter. That's why our Lord Jesus told us in Matthew 10:28 to not fear those who can kill our flesh body but not soul. We are not to fear the flesh death of this world, but fear the "second death" by The Father Himself casting our soul with spirit body into the future "lake of fire". That was our Lord Jesus' Message there. And this is so as to make us 'stronger' in the Faith, not fearful or scared of death.
     
  17. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    posted that God can move us in unusual ways for His purposes -Therefore, there wouldn't be fear.
     
  18. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There was an experiment done in a major hospital that was reporting high numbers of NDEs during surgeries. They found out that zero of their large test sample of NDE were able to accurately report their surroundings during that time. They all missed one important thing, an object. Unbeknown to the patients, a legible sign was placed on top of them after they went unconscious. No matter how accurate their description of events were when in the NDE, none of them saw that sign as they described their body during that experience.

    So no doubt, most of the stories out there are completely not seeing their actual bodies lying on top of the operating table given this real and objective result. In other words, of and by themselves, NDEs can not be used as conclusive proof to determine truth.
     
  19. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    shows Scripture is true!. Missing a major point that it's the spirit and soul leaves the body We're spirit, soul and body (I Thess 5:23)

    For many, death is when they meet the medical definition, the natural one. But we're also spirit. (spirit, soul, and body (I Thess 5:23) .Luk16 account with Father Abraham and Lazarus. 26 "And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

    We dont know when passing that great chasm happens. "For as the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26). For believers, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." (II Cor 5:8). Death is when both the spirit and soul leave the body permanently - God decides.

    As already posted II COR 12 - whether in or out of the body he couldn't tell. But seems it took him 14 yrs to write about it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  20. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Here's a few:
    -a blind girl since birth reported that one of the drs didn't have covers on his shoes and though unconscious reported what went on including which dr used bad language

    - Dr Mary Neal, spinal surgeon, has written and been interviewed about her NDE

    - One of the news folks came to interview Bruce Van Natta and expose him but he had medical records to support his testimony
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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