What does Scripture Mean About Perfection?

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Paul is talking about the 613 Laws of Moses and not New Covenant Law in Romans 7:4. Paul was addressing the false Pharisee religion in trying to be saved by Law Alone Salvationism by the Law of Moses in Romans 7:14-24. Paul used to be a Pharisee and he understood how wrong it was to tried to be saved by Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace. Paul says in Romans 7:6 that we are to serve in newness of Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. The "oldness of the letter" is the Torah or the Law of Moses and not the New Testament Scriptures which were still being formed at that time.
 
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Paul is talking about the 613 Laws of Moses and not New Covenant Law in Romans 7:4. Paul was addressing the false Pharisee religion in trying to be saved by Law Alone Salvationism by the Law of Moses in Romans 7:14-24. Paul used to be a Pharisee and he understood how wrong it was to tried to be saved by Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace. Paul says in Romans 7:6 that we are to serve in newness of Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. The "oldness of the letter" is the Torah or the Law of Moses and not the New Testament Scriptures which were still being formed at that time.
Jesus fulfilled all that’s required for salvation. If we are in Him, there nothing more to do unless you think you can add to what He’s done.
 
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Imagine if Paul was arguing against the "Church of Christ" today (that in my experience they do not talk about God's grace or invite people to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior). If such a thing were to happen, it would sound a lot like Paul would be against doing good or works or living holy as a part of God's grace. But Paul was not against living holy as a part of God's grace, and he considered it as a necessity (Titus 1:16, Titus 2:11-12, Romans 6:1, Romans 8:13, 1 Timothy 6:3-4, Galatians 5:19-21).
 
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Imagine if Paul was arguing against the "Church of Christ" today (that in my experience they do not talk about God's grace or invite people to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior). If such a thing were to happen, it would sound a lot like Paul would be against doing good or works or living holy as a part of God's grace. But Paul was not against living holy as a part of God's grace, and he considered it as a necessity (Titus 1:16, Titus 2:11-12, Romans 6:1, Romans 8:13, 1 Timothy 6:3-4, Galatians 5:19-21).
Not one of those references state that it’s necessary to live holy to stay saved. Read them again.
 
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After we are saved by God's grace, the Bible does teach we need Sanctification (Holy living by God's power) as a part of the salvation process. For...

  1. We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

  2. Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

  3. A person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).

  4. Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God, and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).

  5. Those who have done good, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, shall come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).

  6. We have to continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off [just like the Jews were cut off] (Romans 11:21-22).

  7. Helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to inheriting the Kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and not helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to going away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46).

  8. Whoever does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).

  9. Whoever does what Jesus says is likened unto a wise man who built his house upon the rock, and when a storm came, it did not fall, (Matthew 7:24-25), but the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

  10. Abiding in Jesus will bear much fruit, but if a person does not abide in Jesus [thereby being unfruitful], they are cast out [or cut off] like a branch to be burned in the fire (John 15:5-6).

  11. If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing (1 Peter 4:18-19).

  12. Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) (NKJV).
 
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After we are saved by God's grace, the Bible does teach we need Sanctification (Holy living by God's power) as a part of the salvation process. For...

  1. We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

  2. Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

  3. A person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).

  4. Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God, and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).

  5. Those who have done good, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, shall come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).

  6. We have to continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off [just like the Jews were cut off] (Romans 11:21-22).

  7. Helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to inheriting the Kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and not helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to going away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46).

  8. Whoever does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).

  9. Whoever does what Jesus says is likened unto a wise man who built his house upon the rock, and when a storm came, it did not fall, (Matthew 7:24-25), but the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

  10. Abiding in Jesus will bear much fruit, but if a person does not abide in Jesus [thereby being unfruitful], they are cast out [or cut off] like a branch to be burned in the fire (John 15:5-6).

  11. If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing (1 Peter 4:18-19).

  12. Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) (NKJV).
You’ve definitely started with a premise and then have taken verses out of context, grouped them together as if those selected are in context, and offered that as proof.

The problem is that you’ll never be able to use any of them in context to make your argument.
 
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The Jews in the OT, while possessing an inherited sinful nature, were still not so corrupt as to have no desire to seek God daily and to learn about the Father.

As for your claim that OT saints always possessed a sinful nature:

I don't know what you mean by this claim. Are you implying that an OT saint could not blamelessly keep God's commands? If so, this would be a contradiction of Scripture.

Luke 1:5-6 says, “There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.”
 
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As for your claim that OT saints always possessed a sinful nature:

I don't know what you mean by this claim. Are you implying that an OT saint could not blamelessly keep God's commands? If so, this would be a contradiction of Scripture.

Luke 1:5-6 says, “There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.”
Blameless doesn’t mean sinless.
 
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To all:

Many today do not accept Luke 1:5-6 in what it plainly says.

I just read and believe my Bible plainly and I do not seek to change what this word means according to how we understand this word in an English dictionary because I don't like what it says.

Blameless:

Definition:
innocent of wrongdoing.​

Source:
Oxford Dictionary used by Google.

Blameless:

Free from blame; without fault; innocent; guiltless;​

Source:
1913 Webster's Dictionary:
Blameless | Definition of Blameless by Webster's Online Dictionary
 
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To all:

Many today do not accept Luke 1:5-6 in what it plainly says.

I just read and believe my Bible plainly and I do not seek to change what this word means according to how we understand this word in an English dictionary because I don't like what it says.

Blameless:

Definition:
innocent of wrongdoing.​

Source:
Oxford Dictionary used by Google.

Blameless:

Free from blame; without fault; innocent; guiltless;​

Source:
1913 Webster's Dictionary:
Blameless | Definition of Blameless by Webster's Online Dictionary
And it still doesn’t mean sinless.
 
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To all:

Folks cannot change the dictionary in what words mean.
Blameless means blameless or without blame.
Again, I believe that folks do not like this word will simply seek to change it's plain meaning as we understand words in the English dictionary.
If one believes I am wrong, they need to prove their case with facts of how we understand the plain meaning of words in the Bible.
 
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To all:

Folks cannot change the dictionary in what words mean.
Blameless means blameless or without blame.
Again, I believe that folks do not like this word will simply seek to change it's plain meaning as we understand words in the English dictionary.
If one believes I am wrong, they need to prove their case with facts of how we understand the plan meaning of words in the Bible.
Folks, people need to understand that blameless means without blame. That describes every believer.


Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
— Romans 8:1
 
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To all:

Romans 8:1 in the King James Bible says not only to “them which are in Christ Jesus” but it also says to those “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

Romans 8:1 KJB says,

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”​

Modern Translations have removed the part that says, “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

The words “walk after the flesh” is in reference to a person walking after sin. For works of the flesh is defined for us as sin in Galatians 5:19-21 (Note: Pay close attention to verse 19). Meaning one has to walk not after sin but after the Spirit to not be under the Condemnation (Also see Romans 8:13, and John 3:19-21).

In fact, how can we have an assurance that we are abiding in Christ?

1 John 2:3 says,
“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”

1 John 2:4 says,
“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
 
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Modern Translations have removed the part that says, “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
Because it’s not found in the oldest transcripts.
 
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To all:

The Bible is preserved for all generations and they are pure words.

“The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.” (Psalms 12:6-7) (KJB).

(a) Psalms 12:6, (Is your Bible the pure words of the Lord?)
(b) Psalms 12:7, (Is your Bible preserved today?)
(c) Habakkuk 2:2 & 2 Corinthians 3:12 KJV
(Is your Bible using plainness of speech?)
(Note: If you were to speak or write Hebrew or Greek to people today, they would not understand you; Therefore, it does not pass the Habakkuk 2:2 & 2 Corinthians 3:12 KJV test).

The Simple Way of Faith, vs. the Complicated Way of Faith:

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Believers should just simply read and believe the Bible. Oh, but no. No bible is perfect, and yet they all say the same thing. Surely this sounds complicated. How does one know which words are true or not?

There are primarily two positions. One position is that there are those who believe that God preserved His Word in the world language of today (i.e. They believe the KJV as their one and only final word of authority). The second position is that there is no perfect Word in our current language today (with some believing there is no perfect Scriptures ever, and others believing that the originals were perfect (But we don’t have those anymore)). Many in this second position believe you can read any Modern Version and it is fine. So they are reading flawed bible versions with errors. So they are forced to look to the original languages to figure out what God's Word says relying blindly on their own thinking and scholars to give them the meaning on certain words. It's like they are on a hunt for the Word of God and its true meaning and they cannot have it right away. They cannot just read the Bible and believe it simply and plainly.

It's like God's Word is something that needs to be decoded or deciphered in order for them to truly possess the Word of God. Question: If you believe you must study the original languages to discover God's perfect Word: Do you ever get a chance to just read the Bible normally without having to constantly look at the original languages that you are not familiar with? One position sounds like a position of simple belief or faith (the KJV position). The other position sounds like a lot of doubting (the English translations), and hard work (studying the original languages) and then uncertainty (Because one does not truly know Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Greek). It doesn't sound simple.

2 Corinthians 11:3
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
 
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To all:

Many will say that certain words in the KJB (Based on the Textus Receptus) are not in the oldest manuscripts. But the Critical Text from Westcott and Hort (Where most all Modern Translations are based upon) that is older is better because it is older. However, just because something is older does not mean it is better. A pagan king can write a document about his false religion in OT times, but that does not mean that his ideas are better and more truthful just because they are older. Modern Translations are based on the supposedly older and better manuscripts than the KJB (King James Bible) which is based upon the trustworthy Antiochian line of manuscripts (i.e. the Textus Receptus). The other line of older and better manuscripts (i.e. The Critical Text) is Egyptian in origin (i.e. Alexandrian). If you know anything about the Bible, it speaks predominatly bad about Egypt. Also, if one were to simply do a side by side comparison today, one can see the superiority of the KJB vs the Modern Translations. Here is...

A Side By Side Comparison With
the KJV vs. Modern Translations

Clearly Shows That Modern Bibles are Inferior:

A simple side by side comparison shows that the KJV is superior to the Modern Translations in regards to the deity of Christ, the blood atonement, God's Word, etc.

Note 1:
The image charts with a white background below
can be zoomed in on if you click on them.

full

full

full

full

full

full

full


Here are the sixteen whole verses that are omitted from the Bible (KJV):
  1. Matthew 17:21: "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."
  2. Matthew 18:11: "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."
  3. Matthew 23:14: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."
  4. Mark 7:16: "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."
  5. Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
  6. Mark 9:46: "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
  7. Mark 11:26: "But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."
  8. Mark 15:28: "And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors."
  9. Luke 17:36: "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
  10. John 5:4: "For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had."
  11. Acts of the Apostles 8:37: "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
  12. Acts of the Apostles 15:34: "Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still."
  13. Acts of the Apostles 24:7: "But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands,"
  14. Acts of the Apostles 28:29: "And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."
  15. Romans 16:24: "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
  16. 1 John 5:7 KJV: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Again, Modern Bibles are based on the supposedly older and better documents. But as we can see in the charts above, we can see that they are not better. Does still one want to say that the old is better?

Jesus says,
“No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.” (Luke 5:39).
 
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To all:

The Bible is preserved for all generations and they are pure words.

“The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.” (Psalms 12:6-7) (KJB).

(a) Psalms 12:6, (Is your Bible the pure words of the Lord?)
(b) Psalms 12:7, (Is your Bible preserved today?)
(c) Habakkuk 2:2 & 2 Corinthians 3:12 KJV
(Is your Bible using plainness of speech?)
(Note: If you were to speak or write Hebrew or Greek to people today, they would not understand you; Therefore, it does not pass the Habakkuk 2:2 & 2 Corinthians 3:12 KJV test).

The Simple Way of Faith, vs. the Complicated Way of Faith:

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Believers should just simply read and believe the Bible. Oh, but no. No bible is perfect, and yet they all say the same thing. Surely this sounds complicated. How does one know which words are true or not?

There are primarily two positions. One position is that there are those who believe that God preserved His Word in the world language of today (i.e. They believe the KJV as their one and only final word of authority). The second position is that there is no perfect Word in our current language today (with some believing there is no perfect Scriptures ever, and others believing that the originals were perfect (But we don’t have those anymore)). Many in this second position believe you can read any Modern Version and it is fine. So they are reading flawed bible versions with errors. So they are forced to look to the original languages to figure out what God's Word says relying blindly on their own thinking and scholars to give them the meaning on certain words. It's like they are on a hunt for the Word of God and its true meaning and they cannot have it right away. They cannot just read the Bible and believe it simply and plainly.

It's like God's Word is something that needs to be decoded or deciphered in order for them to truly possess the Word of God. Question: If you believe you must study the original languages to discover God's perfect Word: Do you ever get a chance to just read the Bible normally without having to constantly look at the original languages that you are not familiar with? One position sounds like a position of simple belief or faith (the KJV position). The other position sounds like a lot of doubting (the English translations), and hard work (studying the original languages) and then uncertainty (Because one does not truly know Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Greek). It doesn't sound simple.

2 Corinthians 11:3
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
God has preserved His word. We have very old manuscripts that can show what the original authors intended. One of the faults of the KJV is that they were using the manuscripts that were the best at the time, but since then there have been many more discoveries of older texts since then.
 
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To all:

My case stands on what I said involving the supposedly better older Alexandrian Egyptian manuscripts vs. the Textus Receptus (the KJB). One can just look at the charts above and see the superiority of the King James Bible (Textus Receptus manuscripts) vs. Modern Translations (Alexandrian, Egyptian manuscripts). One can see the truth if they simply compare the two and they remain open.
 
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To all:

My case stands on what I said involving the supposedly better older Alexandrian Egyptian manuscripts vs. the Textus Receptus (the KJB). One can just look at the charts above and see the superiority of the King James Bible (Textus Receptus manuscripts) vs. Modern Translations (Alexandrian, Egyptian manuscripts). One can see the truth if they simply compare the two and they remain open.
When one realizes that if significant amounts of older transcripts do not contain a text, and then it just shows up in later ones, it’s not one to be trusted.
 
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To all:

Older does not mean better. As I said before, a pagan king can write a pagan document that has false religious ideas in it which is older than the New Testament. It does not mean the document is more reliable or trustworthy just because it is older.
 
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