What does prayer do?

[MrsFoundit]

I’ve never personally seen any evidence for the answering of the kind of ‘cure my illness / please let me get that job I want’ etc kind of prayers. I have prayed things of that sort and I can’t say that anything happened as a result.

Yes, because the purpose of prayer is to maintain a relationship with God, not a quick cure all for any problem.

I suppose it depends what you think about prayer. Someone could of course say that it is some sort of internal mechanism, a function of the brain. That’s an interesting idea but the answers to the kinds of prayer I’m talking about here involve actual changes in things like where I live, what countries I spend time in, things like that. Maybe my brain is constantly looking for things it can put together to answer the questions I pose it?

That there may be an effect that can be seen in the brain would not explain very much. When it impacts on other people, that cannot be done by a function in the brain of the person praying.

 

[Tom 1]

Yes, because the purpose of prayer is to maintain a relationship with God, not a quick cure all for any problem.

True. A lot of people see it that way though, globally I mean.

That there may be an effect that can be seen in the brain would not explain very much. When it impacts on other people, that cannot be done by a function in the brain of the person praying.

It’s just an idea to discuss. Not so much some activity in the brain that might be observed, but an idea about how the human brain might have evolved to be able to consider the actions or possible intentions of people who couldn’t be seen, and how that might have led to the imagining of invisible beings.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I have a question.

Imagine that God stopped answering prayers. Just as a thought experiment - I know He never would, of course! But just imagine if He did. What if, for some reason, God suddenly stopped answering prayers, without telling anyone He was going to.

What would happen?
Would people notice? How?
How would the world change as a result of prayers now going completely unanswered?

Prayer has nothing to do with getting what you want. It's to sustain the relationship, foster it and allow it to grow.

If you never had another positive answer to prayer again in your life, it wouldn't (or shouldn't) affect your positive attitude toward prayer.

Think of prayer this way. If you only spoke to your spouse when you wanted something from them, how long do you think the relationship would last? I'm betting not very long before you find yourself in divorce court.

However if, on the other hand talking to her (or him) was a joy, would it matter much if she wasn't running around acting like your servant? No, because you'd just enjoy being with her, and the time you spend together..

Same principle with God..

 

[MrsFoundit]

True. A lot of people see it that way though, globally I mean.

I agree.

It’s just an idea to discuss. Not so much some activity in the brain that might be observed, but an idea about how the human brain might have evolved to be able to consider the actions or possible intentions of people who couldn’t be seen, and how that might have led to the imagining of invisible beings.

It is an interesting idea, but it is a complicated subject.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Prayer has nothing to do with getting what you want. It's to sustain the relationship, foster it and allow it to grow.

Please don't promote your own ideas of what prayer is. This thread has already been shut down once because of Christians debating each other. I've already stated - incontrovertably - that many Christians believe that a proper use of prayer is to ask God for things. The topic of this thread is, what would happen if God stopped answering those prayers. Please stay on topic.

Your two other points are amusing, but I'll refrain from correcting them as they would draw the thread off topic.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Please don't promote your own ideas of what prayer is. This thread has already been shut down once because of Christians debating each other. I've already stated - incontrovertably - that many Christians believe that a proper use of prayer is to ask God for things. The topic of this thread is, what would happen if God stopped answering those prayers. Please stay on topic.

Your two other points are amusing, but I'll refrain from correcting them as they would draw the thread off topic.

I'll leave your thread then.

I had an answered prayer just Friday this few days ago. But if God had not answered my prayer I would not have held it against Him, I would have sought His will through the situation.

If He never answered a request again it wouldn't negatively affect my prayer life. that was my entire point - one apparently not allowed in your thread.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

I'll leave your thread then.

I had an answered prayer just Friday this few days ago. But if God had not answered my prayer I would not have held it against Him, I would have sought His will through the situation.

If He never answered a request again it wouldn't negatively affect my prayer life. that was my entire point - one apparently not allowed in your thread.

No need to leave. You had an answered prayer, you say? That sounds on-topic. What happened?

 

[Hazelelponi]

No need to leave. You had an answered prayer, you say? That sounds on-topic. What happened?

We had excessive rain here, and much flooding and landslides (Its a mountainous region.)

I had a doctor's appointment on Thursday by the hospital which I couldn't get to because of the flooding, but I was needing necessary medicines.

I couldn't get into town via any route because of all the mudslides and rockslides and flooding. Roads were shut down in every direction.

Friday morning I woke up and the situation remained, and it looked like I wouldn't be able to get medicine until Monday at the earliest - leaving me completely without needed medicines all weekend, at least.

I asked for prayer Friday morning for those in need, and asked people close to me for specific prayer and outlined my situation...

Within 3 hours of asking specific prayer, (and of course I'd been praying since Thursday morning when all the roads were closed) and with the help of the sheriff I was able to find one road the minute it opened, which got me to a pharmacy that was open, where my doctor called in the medicines I needed..

It was a piece meal thing, but I was able to get necessary medicines, and left me in a far better position than I otherwise would have been.

It might seem a small thing, but it was pretty huge for me. We were absolutely cut off, and a very bad time for it.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Within 3 hours of asking specific prayer, (and of course I'd been praying since Thursday morning when all the roads were closed) and with the help of the sheriff I was able to find one road the minute it opened, which got me to a pharmacy that was open, where my doctor called in the medicines I needed..

Okay. First of all, congratulations on things going well.
Second, just take a look back at what you said, will you? I highlighted the significant part.
Third, as an "answer" this doesn't rate very highly, does it? Did you get an email, written message or verbal message from God in answer to your prayer? It sounds like you hoped something would happen and it did. In other words, luck.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Okay. First of all, congratulations on things going well.
Second, just take a look back at what you said, will you? I highlighted the significant part.

You can look at it any way you like..

Yes, it took a community pulling together to get it done...

Providence of God? People pulling together? Both?

Reminds me of the joke where the guy is in a flood needing rescue, and he asks God to save him. As he was on his roof waiting for rescue someone comes by in a boat and tells them to get in the boat and get to safety.. the man declines and says no, I'm waiting for God to save me and so the guy in the boat goes on. Time passes and then a helicopter comes by offering rescue and the man again declines and says no, he's waiting on God to rescue him.

Time passes and the man ends up drowning and died. When he gets to heaven he asks God why He didn't save him, and Jesus replied I sent a boat and a helicopter what more did you want?

God uses people too, to rescue us..

 

[InterestedAtheist]

You can look at it any way you like..

Yes, it took a community pulling together to get it done...

Providence of God? People pulling together? Both?

Reminds me of the joke where the guy is in a flood needing rescue, and he asks God to save him. As he was on his roof waiting for rescue someone comes by in a boat and tells them to get in the boat and get to safety.. the man declines and says no, I'm waiting for God to save me and so the guy in the boat goes on. Time passes and then a helicopter comes by offering rescue and the man again declines and says no, he's waiting on God to rescue him.

Time passes and the man ends up drowning and died. When he gets to heaven he asks God why He didn't save him, and Jesus replied I sent a boat and a helicopter what more did you want?

God uses people too, to rescue us..

It's a good joke. But the moral of it is, the man died waiting for God to rescue him. Did God actually send the people? We'll only know when we get to heaven, as nobody has ever come back from it.

So with regards to your own story of an answered prayer, there's no actual evidence that the fortuitous outcome was an "answer" of any kind.

Still, perhaps you'd like to address the question in this thread now.

If, for some unknown reason, God were to stop answering prayers - what do you think the effects would be across the world?

 

[Hazelelponi]

It's a good joke. But the moral of it is, the man died waiting for God to rescue him. Did God actually send the people? We'll only know when we get to heaven, as nobody has ever come back from it.

So with regards to your own story of an answered prayer, there's no actual evidence that the fortuitous outcome was an "answer" of any kind.

Still, perhaps you'd like to address the question in this thread now.

If, for some unknown reason, God were to stop answering prayers - what do you think the effects would be across the world?

What would the affects be?

I think you'd get a better picture of who God's people are and those who instead, take His Name in vain.

That's a large issue of the day I believe...

 

[InterestedAtheist]

What would the affects be?

I think you'd get a better picture of who God's people are and those who instead, take His Name in vain.

That's a large issue of the day I believe...

Okay. Fair enough. You'd be able to see who the "real" Christians were, because their "luck" level would suddenly fall, now that God was no longer arguing their prayers.
That is what you meant, right?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Okay. Fair enough. You'd be able to see who the "real" Christians were, because their "luck" level would suddenly fall, now that God was no longer arguing their prayers.
That is what you meant, right?

No.. if God no longer answered anyone's prayer requests (across the board) you would see those who would then chalk all this religion stuff up to being "nonsense" since they are only in it for "stuff" they might get.

Which goes back to my original post. Prayer is (in the main) about the relationship with God, and conforming our wills to be more like His..

Those who are in it only to get their own desires fulfilled would fall away from the faith and you'd be left with only God's people still praying.

Hence why I said those who are now taking God's Name in vain, would be clearly seen.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

No.. if God no longer answered anyone's prayer requests (across the board) you would see those who would then chalk all this religion stuff up to being "nonsense" since they are only in it for "stuff" they might get.

Which goes back to my original post. Prayer is about the relationship with God, and conforming our wills to be more like His..

Those who are in it only to get their own desires fulfilled would fall away from the faith and you'd be left with only God's people still praying.

Hence why I said those who are now taking God's Name in vain, would be clearly seen.

I see. But perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly. Let me rephrase the question.

Supposing God stopped answering prayers, but didn't tell anybody. No announcement of any kind, no message from the Bible, no prophets. All of a sudden, for some reason we don't need to go into, no prayer was being answered any more.

What do you think the effects or the consequences of this would be?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I see. But perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly. Let me rephrase the question.

Supposing God stopped answering prayers, but didn't tell anybody. No announcement of any kind, no message from the Bible, no prophets. All of a sudden, for some reason we don't need to go into, no prayer was being answered any more.

What do you think the effects or the consequences of this would be?

I already told you what I thought would happen. There would be a falling away from the Christian faith..

"When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour." Revelation 8:1

 

[InterestedAtheist]

I already told you what I thought would happen. There would be a falling away from the Christian faith..

"When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour." Revelation 8:1

I see what you mean. If it was announced that God was no longer answering prayers, the "unfaithful Christians" would fall away because they could no longer get anything. Okay, fair enough. But that wasn't exactly what I was interested in.

I may need to be more precise in phrasing my question.
My next question is this:
How would people know if God stopped answering prayers? Assuming nobody announced it, what would the effects of prayers no longer being answered be?

 

[thomas_t]

Okay, now tell us all why the following verses are not interpreted correctly

Matthew 7:7, Matthew 21:22, Mark 11:24, John 14:13-14, and John 16:23

These verses refer to prayers from believers.
This is different from prayers from non-believers, I think.
God never says that he will always refrain from answering a prayer from an unbeliever - at least I don't recall any such verse.
But James 1:7 is about prayers from doubters.

Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: a multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certai... - PubMed - NCBI

Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Intercessory prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, but claims of benefits are not supported by well-controlled clinical trials. Prior studies have not addressed whether prayer itself or knowledge/certainty that prayer is being provided may influence outcome. We evaluated whether (1) receiving intercessory prayer or (2) being certain of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with uncomplicated recovery after coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery.


METHODS:

Patients at 6 US hospitals were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 groups: 604 received intercessory prayer after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; 597 did not receive intercessory prayer also after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; and 601 received intercessory prayer after being informed they would receive prayer. Intercessory prayer was provided for 14 days, starting the night before CABG. The primary outcome was presence of any complication within 30 days of CABG. Secondary outcomes were any major event and mortality.


RESULTS:

In the 2 groups uncertain about receiving intercessory prayer, complications occurred in 52% (315/604) of patients who received intercessory prayer versus 51% (304/597) of those who did not (relative risk 1.02, 95% CI 0.92-1.15). Complications occurred in 59% (352/601) of patients certain of receiving intercessory prayer compared with the 52% (315/604) of those uncertain of receiving intercessory prayer (relative risk 1.14, 95% CI 1.02-1.28). Major events and 30-day mortality were similar across the 3 groups.


CONCLUSIONS:

Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.

I suppose all members of the prayer team were non-believers, and James 1:7 would apply.
As a Christian personally I would always agree with your following quote and refrain from participating in any study like the the one you've cited.

"Interesting! Perhaps God realised this was a test and decided He wasn't going to be pinned down."
Yeah, let's go with that

Thomas

 

[MrsFoundit]

Please don't promote your own ideas of what prayer is. .

Communion with God for the maintenance of a relationship is what prayer is.

"Communion with God is prayer." Communion with God in prayer

The unity for which Christ prays is no mere “quality” of our life in Christ – but is our life in Christ. That this unity (communion) is the very life of salvation is made clear in St. John’s first epistle:
Salvation, Prayer and Communion with God - Glory to God for All Things

Ryan put it so well: “Prayer plays a crucial role in any relationship with God…it’s your life-line. Once you have that tight feeling with God, you don’t want to feel anything else.
Communion with God Through Prayer - Blog - Eternal Perspective Ministries

Prayer is our opportunity to communicate with God through Christ. While forsaking prayer does not break our union with Christ, it certainly harms our fellowship with him.
10 Things You Should Know about Communion with Christ

It is an absolutely mainstream notion, not a personal unusual idea.

 

[MrsFoundit]

How would people know if God stopped answering prayers? Assuming nobody announced it, what would the effects of prayers no longer being answered be?

No one in a state of communication with God.