What does prayer do?

[InterestedAtheist]

To a Christian though, the world would be radically different, as it would be a situation completely altered from the status quo.

But from even a rather small sample of replies, we can see that not all Christians believe that. And those that do have a huge range of responses. Some think it would mean the end of the world. You seem to think something fairly similar. So I'll ask you: what is this undetected force that so threatens the world's existence, and in what way does prayer hold it back, and how would it be released if God stopped answering - or, if you like, responding - to prayers?

 

[MrsFoundit]

That's fine, I don't expect you to. I'll be happy just to hear what you think.

So your answer might be "nothing would happen if God stopped answering prayers, because he wasn't doing that anyway". Fair enough.

This is a ridiculous twisting of my point.

No, I would say your question is invalid, because your concept of prayer is invalid.

Your attempt to claim I would say "nothing would happen if God stopped answering prayers, because he wasn't doing that anyway" is also invalid.

 

[MrsFoundit]

But from even a rather small sample of replies, we can see that not all Christians believe that.

Can you cite any post in this thread, which you understand to be in conflict with the world would be radically different, as it would be a situation completely altered from the status quo ?

Apart from your very odd alteration of my own point, I see all Christian posts saying basically that.

We are using prose and language, mathematical precision cannot be expected.

 

[MrsFoundit]

because it was raised in response to a person who seems to think that terrible things will happen to me if people stop praying, and I understand that you don't believe this.

I made a point about the Bible not indicating an immediate end of the world yes. However, I agree with Post 17, and the end of the world would arguably be better.

I posed your question to my husband to get you another answer, he reckons it would cause the end of the world too.

 

[MrsFoundit]

If the whole world is being prayed for, then why am I living such a good life, and why are others living such terrible lives?

It is not about making wonderful lives for everyone.

 

[dzheremi]

In the Coptic Orthodox Church one way in which we see prayer is that it is taking from God (as in this video of a sermon by HH Pope Shenouda III of thrice-blessed memory), so the answer to the equivalent question would be that God remains so distant from us (in not 'answering our prayers'), that we reach out to take from Him and cannot.

This separation from God is pretty much the definition of Hell, so that's what would happen. Hell would happen. We see a foretaste of it all around us in places awash in despair and hopelessness due to this lack of connection with God, on many different levels and in many different contexts. It is not really that God withdraws, but that by our own decisions and actions in the world, we increase or decrease this distance between us and God. I am Oriental Orthodox, but the Eastern Orthodox have put it in a way that I quite agree with, that heaven and hell are essentially two experiences of God's love, with His love being endless joy for those who have turned to Him and taken from Him, and that same love being endless suffering and isolation for those who rejected all that He wanted to give them had they only come to Him and asked for it.

 

[brinny]

I have a question.

Imagine that God stopped answering prayers. Just as a thought experiment - I know He never would, of course! But just imagine if He did. What if, for some reason, God suddenly stopped answering prayers, without telling anyone He was going to.

What would happen?
Would people notice? How?
How would the world change as a result of prayers now going completely unanswered?

i have a question for you. Would you care for me to pray for you? Let's see how that turns out? You think God will "hear" me?

 

[Larniavc]

I have a question.

Imagine that God stopped answering prayers. Just as a thought experiment - I know He never would, of course! But just imagine if He did. What if, for some reason, God suddenly stopped answering prayers, without telling anyone He was going to.

What would happen?
Would people notice? How?
How would the world change as a result of prayers now going completely unanswered?

It would be impossible to know.

 

[St. Helens]

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[InterestedAtheist]

Well, now that we've all had some time to cool off, perhaps things can go better.

Perhaps it will help if we limit the scope of responses.
How about if I pose the question like this?
I understand that most Christians believe that God does answer prayers. They ask him for things - health, good luck, finding something lost, helping themselves or others in sickness or job-hunting or relationships - and so on.

Assuming that this is what we mean when we refer to prayer, I'd like to ask my question again, as follows:
If God stopped answering prayers asking for things, what do you think the effect would be?

Of course, I hope all participants, Christian or not, will respect the forum rules.

 

[cvanwey]

Well, now that we've all had some time to cool off, perhaps things can go better.

Perhaps it will help if we limit the scope of responses.
How about if I pose the question like this?
I understand that most Christians believe that God does answer prayers. They ask him for things - health, good luck, finding something lost, helping themselves or others in sickness or job-hunting or relationships - and so on.

Assuming that this is what we mean when we refer to prayer, I'd like to ask my question again, as follows:
If God stopped answering prayers asking for things, what do you think the effect would be?

Of course, I hope all participants, Christian or not, will respect the forum rules.

Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: a multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certai... - PubMed - NCBI

Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Intercessory prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, but claims of benefits are not supported by well-controlled clinical trials. Prior studies have not addressed whether prayer itself or knowledge/certainty that prayer is being provided may influence outcome. We evaluated whether (1) receiving intercessory prayer or (2) being certain of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with uncomplicated recovery after coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery.


METHODS:

Patients at 6 US hospitals were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 groups: 604 received intercessory prayer after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; 597 did not receive intercessory prayer also after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; and 601 received intercessory prayer after being informed they would receive prayer. Intercessory prayer was provided for 14 days, starting the night before CABG. The primary outcome was presence of any complication within 30 days of CABG. Secondary outcomes were any major event and mortality.


RESULTS:

In the 2 groups uncertain about receiving intercessory prayer, complications occurred in 52% (315/604) of patients who received intercessory prayer versus 51% (304/597) of those who did not (relative risk 1.02, 95% CI 0.92-1.15). Complications occurred in 59% (352/601) of patients certain of receiving intercessory prayer compared with the 52% (315/604) of those uncertain of receiving intercessory prayer (relative risk 1.14, 95% CI 1.02-1.28). Major events and 30-day mortality were similar across the 3 groups.


CONCLUSIONS:

Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: a multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certai... - PubMed - NCBI

Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Intercessory prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, but claims of benefits are not supported by well-controlled clinical trials. Prior studies have not addressed whether prayer itself or knowledge/certainty that prayer is being provided may influence outcome. We evaluated whether (1) receiving intercessory prayer or (2) being certain of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with uncomplicated recovery after coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery.


METHODS:

Patients at 6 US hospitals were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 groups: 604 received intercessory prayer after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; 597 did not receive intercessory prayer also after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; and 601 received intercessory prayer after being informed they would receive prayer. Intercessory prayer was provided for 14 days, starting the night before CABG. The primary outcome was presence of any complication within 30 days of CABG. Secondary outcomes were any major event and mortality.


RESULTS:

In the 2 groups uncertain about receiving intercessory prayer, complications occurred in 52% (315/604) of patients who received intercessory prayer versus 51% (304/597) of those who did not (relative risk 1.02, 95% CI 0.92-1.15). Complications occurred in 59% (352/601) of patients certain of receiving intercessory prayer compared with the 52% (315/604) of those uncertain of receiving intercessory prayer (relative risk 1.14, 95% CI 1.02-1.28). Major events and 30-day mortality were similar across the 3 groups.


CONCLUSIONS:

Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.

Interesting! Perhaps God realised this was a test and decided He wasn't going to be pinned down.

Some years ago I read a part of a recount by a visitation pastor, going to hospitals and praying with the dying. You can see it about halfway down the page at L.B. The Visitation Pastor

Let me just quote a part of it.

I threw myself into it. I prayed holding hands and cradling heads. I prayed with children and old men. I prayed with a man who lost his tongue to cancer. I lent him mine...I had 50 variations of every prayer you could imagine.

I started noticing something. When the doctors said someone was going to die, they did. When they said 10 percent chance of survival, about 9 out of 10 died. The odds ran pretty much as predicted by the doctors. I mean, is this praying doing ANYTHING?

No doubt Christians will be able to give us plenty of examples of hopeless cases where people were prayed for and recovered. But without context, that would only be anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias.

 

[cvanwey]

Interesting! Perhaps God realised this was a test and decided He wasn't going to be pinned down.

Yeah, let's go with that

 

[cvanwey]

Kind of reminds me of a lecture I heard once, about prayer. The speaker cited the following quote...

"With prayer, and 18 months of chemotherapy and radiation treatments, I was able to defeat cancer. Thank you God."

 

[BigV]

Also, if it matters, He does not answer the prayers of most people. He says He does not even hear them.

But how do the people know God doesn't hear their prayers or doesn't answer them?

According to the Apostle Paul, if only in this life Christians have hope in God, then they are the most miserable of all men. Sounds like an admission by Paul that prayer won't help anything in the here and now.

 

[BigV]

"With prayer, and 18 months of chemotherapy and radiation treatments, I was able to defeat cancer. Thank you God."

Well, God's ways are mysterious, but he does seem to heal more people in places where medicine is more advanced and easily accessible.

 

[Tom 1]

I have a question.

Imagine that God stopped answering prayers. Just as a thought experiment - I know He never would, of course! But just imagine if He did. What if, for some reason, God suddenly stopped answering prayers, without telling anyone He was going to.

What would happen?
Would people notice? How?
How would the world change as a result of prayers now going completely unanswered?

Interesting, I was about to start a thread on the same topic, more or less, just a different angle. If God answers prayers, and he stopped doing it, then people’s prayers wouldn’t be answered. I don’t think anything else would change.

 

[Tom 1]

What a kind and thoughtful reply. Thank you very much.

Yes, you are quite correct. This is a hypothetical question (I asked a similar question a while ago, and a number of people replied "God would never do that.")
As for prayer - well, really, I'd like to go with what Christians mean when they say praying. It's their religion, after all. What I understand them to mean is talking to God and asking Him for something.
Now, when I've said things like this before, I have often had the response that it is arrogant to ask God for things. And my answer is: I understand this is what Christians often do, and that asking God for something can be a good act; maybe asking for strength in a crisis, or for wisdom to do good in the world; for healing for oneself or another person; for good luck; or for something that they really want.

But really, the question "What do you think would happen if God stopped answering prayers" is simply asking you what you think would happen. If, for example, you think that God doesn't answer prayers in any meaningful sense, then I suppose your answer would be "nothing would change".

I’ve never personally seen any evidence for the answering of the kind of ‘cure my illness / please let me get that job I want’ etc kind of prayers. I have prayed things of that sort and I can’t say that anything happened as a result.

I have prayed more than a few times for guidance and understanding and I’ve been quite profoundly surprised, awed even, at different points in my life when a number of different circumstances come together in such a way that answers one of those prayers, perhaps something that I had prayed months or years, even decades, earlier. So the question there would be, if those prayers were not answered, would I then become unmoored somehow, with no mechanism to figure out the kinds of amorphous things I sometimes pray about?

I suppose it depends what you think about prayer. Someone could of course say that it is some sort of internal mechanism, a function of the brain. That’s an interesting idea but the answers to the kinds of prayer I’m talking about here involve actual changes in things like where I live, what countries I spend time in, things like that. Maybe my brain is constantly looking for things it can put together to answer the questions I pose it? It’s possible I suppose, and it would be interesting to discuss, which is what my other thread was going to be about, essentially. Sometimes people offer ‘psychology says’, rather facile, responses to this kind of question, but usually those turn out to be vague references to something they haven’t really read or understood. Harari refers to an interesting idea in Sapiens, about how the ability or later tendency to imagine invisible beings came about, something along the lines of being able or needing to think about what some people who were not present might be doing in a neighbouring valley or some other place. It’s possible that prayer is linked to that kind of brain function, but I don’t see that as being enough to go on for now, although it would be interesting to discuss further. If that were the case, then asking what would happen if prayers weren’t answered would be the same as asking what would happen if our brains functioned differently.

 

[BigV]

Interesting! Perhaps God realised this was a test and decided He wasn't going to be pinned down.

This excuse only works for Yahweh. Doesn't work for Baal and hundreds of Gods throughout human history.

 

[Tom 1]

But how do the people know God doesn't hear their prayers or doesn't answer them?

According to the Apostle Paul, if only in this life Christians have hope in God, then they are the most miserable of all men. Sounds like an admission by Paul that prayer won't help anything in the here and now.

The life of radical dedication and sacrifice Paul led and promoted has morphed into a position much more defensive of a comfortable lifestyle in modern Christianity. There’s a lot to be said for the emotional and psychological benefits that come from the kind of community and family orientated life that comes out of the most common/popular readings of the bible.