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Featured What does "except there come a falling away first" in 2 Thess. 2:3 mean?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Aug 25, 2017.

  1. 2Timothy2:15

    2Timothy2:15 Well-Known Member

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    I am not arguing anything, pointing out something. Also, I found the original text and it is from an interview. Now you are saying you conducted the interview as well?
     
  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    :doh:oh brother, someone's ego is out of control.:)

    I know the Popes had people killed and tortured when someone said they were wrong. Uh, doesn't apply here, Q. People say I am wrong all the time. And I don't see any reason you should be immune to being told likewise that you are wrong.

    Q, everyone here is equal. There are no elites.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
  3. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My "ego" has nothing to do with the caliber of your posts in response to mine. Either address your views on the subject of the thread, and stop your guesswork I am wrong, . Let me see your Scriptural proofs showing that I am wrong. If that is too much for you and you continue with your assumptions telling me I'm in error, instead of a Scriptural refutation, don't expect me to respond to any further posts of yours directed to me!


    Quasar92
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Q, I explained it to you in post #110 in this thread. The person is the Anti-Christ only while he is in the role of being the King of Israel - which will be for only 3 years, 3 months (thereabouts). In your other thread about the different names the Antichrist's goes by - is like saying the other names the King of Israel (illegitimate) goes by.....

    The scribes, in Mark 15:32, mocked Jesus - saying "Christ the King of Israel. Put Anti - the prefix meaning instead of and/or against in front of Christ the King of Israel - and that is who the Antichrist will be. The another that Jesus told Nicodemus they would accept. The person becomes the Antichrist when he is anointed the King of Israel. Before then, the person is not the Antichrist.

    And after the person commits the transgression of desolation, he is no longer the Antichrist, for the remainder of the 7 years..
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
  5. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nowhere in the Bible are we given the ID of who the Antichrist is, except His number, 666, in Rev.13:18. According to the Scriptures, he will be revealed in Dan.9:27, when He confirms a seven year covenant with many.

    Time has run out on me. I'm going to have to leave the site now because it is so late. More another time.


    Quasar92
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    In Revelation 13:18, the person is no longer the Antichrist - King of Israel (illegitimate), but has become the beast.

    In Daniel 9:27, the person is "the prince who shall come". He will be anointed the King of Israel, right before he confirms the covenant (the Mt. Sinai covenant) - so it would be correct to say that he has become the Antichrist at that point.

    The person is not revealed as "the man of sin" until three years, three months (thereabouts) into his reign as the Antichrist - committing the transgression of desolation act of 2thessalonians2:4.

    Q. you have jumbled all these things up in the way you stated it.....
    Nowhere in the Bible are we given the ID of who the Antichrist [no, he is not the Antichrist any longer in Revelation 13, but the beast] is, except His number, 666, in Rev.13:18. According to the Scriptures, he will be revealed in Dan.9:27, when He confirms a seven year covenant with many. [Q, you are taking "revealed" from 2thessalonians2:3, and misusing that passage. It is not that the person is revealed as the Antichrist, but the man of sin. The person will have already been in the Antichrist position for 3 years, 3 months, when 2thessalonians2:4 takes place. 2thessalonians2:4 is not revealing the person as the Antichrist, but as the man of sin].

    At the core of the problem is that you don't know what the term Antichrist actually means - and you are misapplying the term to the person to times when he is not the Antichrist.

    Q, if there were an all encompassing term for the person - it is not the Antichrist - but the arch villain of the end times. I simply refer to the arch villain as the person.

    I might, for example, say the person, as the Antichrist, confirms the covenant with many for one week.

    Another example, say the person as he reveals himself as the man of sin, goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.

    Another example, say the person, as the beast, will be worshiped.

    Another example, say the person, as the prince who shall come, arrives in the middle east with a strong army.
    _____________________________________________________________

    The arch villain of the end times goes by different labels dependent on what role he is in at the time.

    The different roles are as the little horn, the prince who shall come, the Antichrist, the revealed man of sin, the beast, the willful king, the son of perdition, the mortally wounded and recovered head, the king yet to come....
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  7. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  8. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Scriptures do not delineate any such "in and out" entrances and exits where the AC is discussed in Scripture, Doug. You are left with the burden of Scriptural proof to verify such claims. The same is true with his ID. He is revealed in Rev.13 as the beast from out of the sea and as #666. He is called various other names elsewhere, such as the "little horn," the the "he," in Dan. and the "man of lawlessness in 2 Thess., the "beast" in Rev., as well as other names. Bit never is there a direct ID of him



    Quasar92
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It is not the person as the Antichrist in different roles. It is the arch villain of the end times in different roles. Being the Antichrist is just one of those roles.

    The person in the different roles is by the different labels assigned to him by the text itself. It is the same person because he meets his end when Jesus returns. There is no burden on me, Q. The text itself does not call the person "the Antichrist". It is only by knowing what the term "Antichirst" means, that it can be determined which verses are talking about the person when he is in the Antichrist role.

    The person is referred to by various labels (not names) in different end times passages. The person's name is something like "Bob, Joe, Sam, etc." When you sign your name, you don't put down "bible teacher" do you?

    As far as being to know who the person is, ID'ing him, it will be possible when the EU goes to a ten leader form of government with one leader over them, who is a Jew, and who has stern look about him. That he is the actual person will be verified as events progress of course.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  10. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Antchrist is a person, according to the Scriptures. Rev.13:18 states 666 is the number of a man. Both he and another human being, the beast out of the earth, in Rev.13:11, will both be thrown into the lake of fire in Rev.19:20.

    With all due respect, Doug, I do not agree with your views and will not discuss it with you any further.


    Quasar92
     
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The Antichrist is a person. The Antichrist means the King of Israel (illegitimate), instead of and against, Jesus the rightful King of Israel.

    In Revelation 13, the person is no longer the King of Israel, but has become the beast. Rev 13:17 says "the name of the beast" - "the number of his name". His name is not "Antichrist".
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Hal, take a look at these verses....

    Deuteronomy 31:
    9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and unto all the elders of Israel.

    10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,

    11 When all Israel is come to appear before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

    12 Gather the people together, men and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the Lord your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:

    13 And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the Lord your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.
    _______________________________________________________________________________

    The leader(s) of Israel are responsible, on a seven year cycle, to do what Moses did, give a big speech that God gave the nation of Israel, the land of Israel as their forever. What Moses did in making the speech in Deuteronomy 31 to the nation of Israel, was essentially confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant.

    That is what the person in Daniel 9:27 will do, as the Antichrist, crowned King of Israel, to begin the seven years.

    In Revelation 6, the rider on the white horse is given a crown, at the beginning of the 7 years. (Revelation 6-19 is structured, the different chapters, on the 7 years, or the second half of the seven years, depending on the chapter(s) ). That crown is the person being crowned the King of Israel (illegitimate).

    Deuteronomy 31:10 = Daniel 9:27 = Revelation 6, the seals - as the 7 years.

    And furthermore.

    Deuteronomy 31:10 = Ezekiel 39:9 = Daniel 9:27 = Revelation 6, the seals - as the 7 years.
     
  13. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Hal, are you saying the man of sin stops the daily sacrifice in the middle of the week in Daniel 9:27 ? If that act in the middle of the 7 years reveals him as the man of sin..... in what role is the person in when he confirms the covenant with many for seven years?

    What I am getting at is that the confirming of the covenant for seven years - is a requirement of the leader(s) of Israel to do (set by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13) - not someone who is an Arab/Mulsim.
     
  15. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    fxgjh
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Agreed, there is not a seven year covenant. This is not what it is saying. In the KJV, it says confirm the covenant for 7 years. The for 7 years is the cycle which it has to be confirmed, every seven years, there is a requirement to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant, a law made by Moses. Hal, are you using the KJV ?

    The covenant that is confirmed every 7 years is the Mt. Sinai covenant Moses was the first to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant. And from then on out every 7 years, forever, the leader(s) of Israel are supposed to do the same. What it is - is a big speech the leader of Israel gives to the nation, that God under the Mt. Sinai covenant gave the children of Israel the land of Israel as theirs forever.

    The person who stops the daily sacrifice is not Jesus; otherwise, Jesus would also have to be the little horn person who stops the daily sacrifice in Daniel 8:11-13. Stopping the daily sacrifice in Daniel 8:11-13 is the same stopping of the daily sacrifice in Daniel 9:27 - the same event.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  17. Waterwerx

    Waterwerx Well-Known Member

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    It does not. Consider the use of the specific term "apostasia" in other Scripture.
    Acts 21:21
    "but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs."

    "de katecheo peri sy hoti didasko pas ho Ioudaios kata ho ethnos apostasia Moyses lego autos me peritemno ho teknon mede peripateo ho ethos"

    Given its only other specific use is in Acts 21:21, that's the ruler I would use for measuring how much latitude can be taken with the meaning of the term in conjunction with the contexts. Its not a term I would choose to use for building a case of a pre-trib rapture. I prefer to also let Scripture context define how a term can be interpreted rather than strictly using an exhaustive list of possible meanings in a concordance/lexicon.
     
  18. Postvieww

    Postvieww Newbie

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    . One of your errors is thinking you are incapable of error. Capiche?!
     
  19. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    <SNIP>

    And yours are: Personal attack and an off subject post.


    Quasar92
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Since you have been known to use the word "liar" when responding to those who do not agree with your doctrine, you may want to watch out for that beam in the eye when using the term "Personal attack...".


    Luk_6:42  Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

    .
     
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