What does "except there come a falling away first" in 2 Thess. 2:3 mean?

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This passage has been the subject of much controversy, as to whether this speaks of a period of great "apostasy", or whether it refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

I believe the KJV phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

The KJV English phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, is the one Greek word "apostasia", and its basic meaning is to "depart from" or "go away".

The Greek word "Apostasia" is a compound of two Greek words: "Apo" = "to move away", "stasis" means "standing or state", or "to stand".

Literally, from its basic definition, "apostasia" means "to go away from", or "depart", or "change state or standing from one state to another".

"Apostasia" was used in extra Biblical Greek literature to describe political revolt, or a "going away from the establishment" and in the Septuagint, or Greek Old Testament, when the Jews would "go away" from God to worship other gods.

"Apostasia" is only used one other time in the New Testament, in Acts 21:21 to describe "forsaking", or "going away from" the teachings of Moses.

"Apostasion", the noun form, appears in Matt 5:31, & 19:7, and Mark 10:4 where it describes a "writing of divorcement", or "papers that separate". (Again, so someone can go away).

"Apostasia" literally then means "to depart, or go away from", and to "go away from what" must be determined from the context.

So, what is the "context" of both the First and Second Epistle to the Church at Thessalonica? The sole subject and context of both epistles is the "Rapture", or "Departure" of the Church, or "the called out ones," and advice to the Church while we await the Return of Christ for the Church. The Second letter to the Church at Thessalonica appears to have been written by Paul to clear up misunderstandings about his First Letter. (2 Thess. 2:1-5)

The Greek word "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 also has the Greek article "the" in front of it, in the Greek text, which makes it, not a general "going away", or "departure", but "The Departure", a special EVENT, that the reader is expected to already know about.

In other words, the use of the article "the" with "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 indicates that Paul expects the Thessalonian Christians to already understand that this is the title of an event, and he expects them to already know what it means.

Had the Apostle Paul already taught the Thessalonians about an "EVENT" that could be described as a "departure", or "going away"? Absolutely, yes.

Paul had already taught the Thessalonian Church about the EVENT, of the Catching Away and "Departure" of the Church in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember? When I was with you I taught you about these things?

I don't see where Paul taught them at all about "a falling away from the truth" in his first letter, but he taught them about the Rapture of the church in at least five passages in 1st Thessalonians:

1. 1 Thess 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead,[even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

2. 1 Thess 2:19 "For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?"

3. 1 Thess 3:13 "To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints."

4. 1 Thess 4:13 - 5:10:

Verse 13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Chapter 5

Verse 1 But of the times and the seasons (dispensations), brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (Tribulation and Second Advent) so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when THEY shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon THEM, as travail upon a woman with child; and THEY shall not escape.

4 But YE, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake YOU as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, (The Tribulation is God's Wrath upon the earth) but to obtain salvation (Greek "sodzo" or "safety") by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
5. 1 Thess 5:23 " And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Also, in Paul's second letter to the Thessalonian Church, in 2 Thess. 2:2, we find that someone had apparently written a letter to the Thessalonian Church saying that the "Day of Christ", the Rapture, was past, in other words, they had missed it, and now they were in the "Day of the Lord", or seven year Tribulation.

In 2 Thess 2:1-5, Paul is proving that they have not missed the Rapture and were now in the Tribulation, but that the Rapture is still future. Paul says:

1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (the Rapture of the Church).

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (Rapture of the Church) is at hand. ("at hand" is a Greek "perfect tense" verb, meaning the Rapture has already happened and is in the past - that would mean they missed the Rapture and are now in the Tribulation).

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come] (this phrase is not in the Greek, but is added by the translators. The Greek "ean may" = "that cannot happen"), except there come a falling away first, (THE Departure of the Church, first) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (and Antichrist revealed).

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

In the above verses, Paul tells them "that cannot happen", TWO things must occur before the "day of the Lord", or 7 year Tribulation, arrives, #1 "THE departure" first, and #2 "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

So, I believe Paul proves to the Church at Thessalonica that they are not in the "Tribulation", as someone had written them, because the Seven Year Tribulation cannot begin until the "Rapture" of the Church occurs and the "man of sin", the "Antichrist" is revealed.

If Paul had been referring to a "general falling away from the truth", it would have "proved" nothing to the Church at Thessalonica, because there was "apostasy" at the time, and there have been, and will continue to be great periods of falling away from the truth throughout the Church Age.

Every reference, that I find, to the "catching away" of the living saints, is described as "imminent", and can happen at any moment - there is no prophesy to be fulfilled before the Rapture can occur.

Think about it, if the "falling away" Paul refers to is a distinct period of "apostasy", of "falling away from the truth", and the world has now been through the "Dark Ages", when Christians were persecuted and Bibles were burned, then Paul would mean "THE period of falling from the truth" that is worse and more defined than the Dark Ages - and it would still be in the future, and the Rapture could not occur until it comes! That does not fit God's revealed plan for earth and mankind.

To me, "The Departure" of 2 Thess 2:3 is the exact opposite of "falling away" from God’s truth. This is in a context of the "Rapture of the Church", the "day of Christ", the Day when Jesus will return, in the air, below the highest mountain top, and catch the Church (all the born again Christians in the world) up into the air, and take them to the Third Heaven.

In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember when I was with you I taught you about these things? - and the subject of Paul's First Letter is "The Departure of the Church", from this earth to our Father in heaven, according to Jesus promises to us in Jn.14:1-4 and 28.

By: Bob Jones


So the word has the core meaning of departure and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as departure from the faith.

Translation History

The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) .[5] This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' " [6] Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of " departure" in 1611 A.D.?

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No good reason was ever given.


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Quasar92

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Post like that makes me wonder why anybody would want to be in the company of Christians.

I'm sorry, but look at how foolish this pre-trib rapture stuff has become...

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

What you guys are saying is...

For that day shall not come,...

What day? The coming, the gathering, and the day of the Lord.

EXCEPT there come a departyre first...

"For the day of departure will not come until there is a departure.....foolishness.

In the above verses, Paul tells them "that cannot happen", TWO things must occur before the "day of the Lord", or 7 year Tribulation, arrives, #1 "THE departure" first, and #2 "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

What a fibrication. The Day of the LORD is the tribulation?
Just another reason that discourages anyone to convert to the God of Christianity.


Denying the teachings of the pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, is calling them all liars.

The following is a four post link on the Biblical teachings of the pre-trib rapture of the Church. Either field a Scripturally supported rebuke refuting any of it, or your views that are the false ones.

And where may I ask did you obtain qualificatios to teach the Bible?

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - a deeper walk...


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jgr

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This passage has been the subject of much controversy, as to whether this speaks of a period of great "apostasy", or whether it refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

I believe the KJV phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

The KJV English phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, is the one Greek word "apostasia", and its basic meaning is to "depart from" or "go away".

The Greek word "Apostasia" is a compound of two Greek words: "Apo" = "to move away", "stasis" means "standing or state", or "to stand".

Literally, from its basic definition, "apostasia" means "to go away from", or "depart", or "change state or standing from one state to another".

"Apostasia" was used in extra Biblical Greek literature to describe political revolt, or a "going away from the establishment" and in the Septuagint, or Greek Old Testament, when the Jews would "go away" from God to worship other gods.

"Apostasia" is only used one other time in the New Testament, in Acts 21:21 to describe "forsaking", or "going away from" the teachings of Moses.

"Apostasion", the noun form, appears in Matt 5:31, & 19:7, and Mark 10:4 where it describes a "writing of divorcement", or "papers that separate". (Again, so someone can go away).

"Apostasia" literally then means "to depart, or go away from", and to "go away from what" must be determined from the context.

So, what is the "context" of both the First and Second Epistle to the Church at Thessalonica? The sole subject and context of both epistles is the "Rapture", or "Departure" of the Church, or "the called out ones," and advice to the Church while we await the Return of Christ for the Church. The Second letter to the Church at Thessalonica appears to have been written by Paul to clear up misunderstandings about his First Letter. (2 Thess. 2:1-5)

The Greek word "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 also has the Greek article "the" in front of it, in the Greek text, which makes it, not a general "going away", or "departure", but "The Departure", a special EVENT, that the reader is expected to already know about.

In other words, the use of the article "the" with "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 indicates that Paul expects the Thessalonian Christians to already understand that this is the title of an event, and he expects them to already know what it means.

Had the Apostle Paul already taught the Thessalonians about an "EVENT" that could be described as a "departure", or "going away"? Absolutely, yes.

Paul had already taught the Thessalonian Church about the EVENT, of the Catching Away and "Departure" of the Church in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember? When I was with you I taught you about these things?

I don't see where Paul taught them at all about "a falling away from the truth" in his first letter, but he taught them about the Rapture of the church in at least five passages in 1st Thessalonians:

1. 1 Thess 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead,[even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

2. 1 Thess 2:19 "For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?"

3. 1 Thess 3:13 "To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints."

4. 1 Thess 4:13 - 5:10:

Verse 13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Chapter 5

Verse 1 But of the times and the seasons (dispensations), brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (Tribulation and Second Advent) so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when THEY shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon THEM, as travail upon a woman with child; and THEY shall not escape.

4 But YE, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake YOU as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, (The Tribulation is God's Wrath upon the earth) but to obtain salvation (Greek "sodzo" or "safety") by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
5. 1 Thess 5:23 " And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Also, in Paul's second letter to the Thessalonian Church, in 2 Thess. 2:2, we find that someone had apparently written a letter to the Thessalonian Church saying that the "Day of Christ", the Rapture, was past, in other words, they had missed it, and now they were in the "Day of the Lord", or seven year Tribulation.

In 2 Thess 2:1-5, Paul is proving that they have not missed the Rapture and were now in the Tribulation, but that the Rapture is still future. Paul says:

1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (the Rapture of the Church).

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (Rapture of the Church) is at hand. ("at hand" is a Greek "perfect tense" verb, meaning the Rapture has already happened and is in the past - that would mean they missed the Rapture and are now in the Tribulation).

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come] (this phrase is not in the Greek, but is added by the translators. The Greek "ean may" = "that cannot happen"), except there come a falling away first, (THE Departure of the Church, first) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (and Antichrist revealed).

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

In the above verses, Paul tells them "that cannot happen", TWO things must occur before the "day of the Lord", or 7 year Tribulation, arrives, #1 "THE departure" first, and #2 "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

So, I believe Paul proves to the Church at Thessalonica that they are not in the "Tribulation", as someone had written them, because the Seven Year Tribulation cannot begin until the "Rapture" of the Church occurs and the "man of sin", the "Antichrist" is revealed.

If Paul had been referring to a "general falling away from the truth", it would have "proved" nothing to the Church at Thessalonica, because there was "apostasy" at the time, and there have been, and will continue to be great periods of falling away from the truth throughout the Church Age.

Every reference, that I find, to the "catching away" of the living saints, is described as "imminent", and can happen at any moment - there is no prophesy to be fulfilled before the Rapture can occur.

Think about it, if the "falling away" Paul refers to is a distinct period of "apostasy", of "falling away from the truth", and the world has now been through the "Dark Ages", when Christians were persecuted and Bibles were burned, then Paul would mean "THE period of falling from the truth" that is worse and more defined than the Dark Ages - and it would still be in the future, and the Rapture could not occur until it comes! That does not fit God's revealed plan for earth and mankind.

To me, "The Departure" of 2 Thess 2:3 is the exact opposite of "falling away" from God’s truth. This is in a context of the "Rapture of the Church", the "day of Christ", the Day when Jesus will return, in the air, below the highest mountain top, and catch the Church (all the born again Christians in the world) up into the air, and take them to the Third Heaven.

In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember when I was with you I taught you about these things? - and the subject of Paul's First Letter is "The Departure of the Church", from this earth to our Father in heaven, according to Jesus promises to us in Jn.14:1-4 and 28.

By: Bob Jones


So the word has the core meaning of departure and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as departure from the faith.

Translation History

The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) .[5] This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' " [6] Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of " departure" in 1611 A.D.?

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No good reason was ever given.


Quasar92
Debunked.

Here is the elaboration on 2 Thes. 2:3 in the Wycliffe translation:

3 [That] No man deceive you in any manner. For but dissension come first [For no but departing away, or dissension, shall come first], and the man of sin be showed, the son of perdition

Note that dissension (consistent with apostasy, separation, schism) is the elaboration. Rapture is unseen.

Departing/departure means departure from the truth i.e. apostasy, not rapture; falling away, not flying away.

Wycliffe himself identified antichrist as the papacy, at whose hands the true church was suffering. He unquestionably therefore did not believe in a pretrib rapture.


And from Calvin's Geneva Study Bible:

Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Calvin also identified antichrist as the papacy, and thus did not believe in a pretrib rapture.
Same with Tyndale. He was martyred by the papacy.
Same with Cranmer. He too was martyred by the papacy.
Coverdale was an associate of Tyndale's, and of like persuasion.
Beza was also of like persuasion.

There is no Reformer who defined the word as anything other than apostasy.

A definition of "discessio," the word used in the Vulgate, is found at this site.

Included near the end is a specific ecclesiological subdefinition:
"In the church, a separation, schism (eccl. Lat.), Vulg. Act. 21, 21; id. 2 Thes. 2, 3."

Occurrences are cited as being Acts 21:21 and 2 Thes. 2:3.

Letting Scripture interpret Scripture, the use of the word in Acts 21:21 is translated "forsake," which is fully consistent with the subdefinition above, and has nothing to do with rapture.

Apostacia: What Modern Greeks say about "Apostacia" in 2 Thess 2:3.

Excerpt: "I could find no debate among Greek speaking Christians on how to interpret this verse. They all interpret "apostacia" in 2 Thess 2:3 to mean "apostacy"."

Does Apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Refer to a ‘Physical Departure’ (i.e. the Rapture)?

2 Thess 2:3 in the Early Church Writings; How early Greek, Latin and Aramaic speaking Christians interpreted "Apostacia"/"Apostacy

The Latin Influence on 2 Thess 2:3


Following is a response from the New American Standard Bible (NASB) translators at the Lockman foundation to a question regarding the validity of "rapture" rather than "apostasy" in 2 Thess. 2:3:

The online article cited offers arguments which are incorrect. The verb that apostasia comes from has several meanings, but the main meanings include "revolt," "desert," "fall away," and even "become a backslider." The noun apostasia is not automatically capable of having all of the meanings that the verb does. The way the meaning of a word is determined is by examining how it is used, and apostasia is consistently used of revolting, rebellion, and abandoning a belief system. Aside from 2 Thess 2:3 it is only found in Acts 21:21 in the New Testament, where it is used of abandoning the Law of Moses. In the Greek translation of the Old Testament, it occurs in Josh 22:22, 2 Chr 29:19, and 1 Macc 2:15, and in each verse it refers to apostasy or rebellion.

It is interesting that the writer also cites Liddell and Scott (now LSJM) in support, observing that the first definitions are "defection" and "revolt." He fails to mention that LSJM immediately add, "especially in a religious sense, rebellion against God, apostasy," and then go on to cite not only Josh 22:22 but also 2 Thess 2:3. So what the writer states is simply a misleading presentation of the evidence. The argument about the translation shift is irrelevant in view of the evidence for the correct meaning, and this argument is also questionable. "Departure" seems not to have meant simply to leave a place, but to separate from someone or something. For these and other reasons the NASB translators are confident about the meaning "apostasy" in 2 Thess 2:3.



"Futurism fantasizes; history realizes."
 
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This passage has been the subject of much controversy, as to whether this speaks of a period of great "apostasy", or whether it refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

I believe the KJV phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

The KJV English phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, is the one Greek word "apostasia", and its basic meaning is to "depart from" or "go away".

The Greek word "Apostasia" is a compound of two Greek words: "Apo" = "to move away", "stasis" means "standing or state", or "to stand".

Literally, from its basic definition, "apostasia" means "to go away from", or "depart", or "change state or standing from one state to another".

"Apostasia" was used in extra Biblical Greek literature to describe political revolt, or a "going away from the establishment" and in the Septuagint, or Greek Old Testament, when the Jews would "go away" from God to worship other gods.

"Apostasia" is only used one other time in the New Testament, in Acts 21:21 to describe "forsaking", or "going away from" the teachings of Moses.

"Apostasion", the noun form, appears in Matt 5:31, & 19:7, and Mark 10:4 where it describes a "writing of divorcement", or "papers that separate". (Again, so someone can go away).

"Apostasia" literally then means "to depart, or go away from", and to "go away from what" must be determined from the context.

So, what is the "context" of both the First and Second Epistle to the Church at Thessalonica? The sole subject and context of both epistles is the "Rapture", or "Departure" of the Church, or "the called out ones," and advice to the Church while we await the Return of Christ for the Church. The Second letter to the Church at Thessalonica appears to have been written by Paul to clear up misunderstandings about his First Letter. (2 Thess. 2:1-5)

The Greek word "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 also has the Greek article "the" in front of it, in the Greek text, which makes it, not a general "going away", or "departure", but "The Departure", a special EVENT, that the reader is expected to already know about.

In other words, the use of the article "the" with "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 indicates that Paul expects the Thessalonian Christians to already understand that this is the title of an event, and he expects them to already know what it means.

Had the Apostle Paul already taught the Thessalonians about an "EVENT" that could be described as a "departure", or "going away"? Absolutely, yes.

Paul had already taught the Thessalonian Church about the EVENT, of the Catching Away and "Departure" of the Church in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember? When I was with you I taught you about these things?

I don't see where Paul taught them at all about "a falling away from the truth" in his first letter, but he taught them about the Rapture of the church in at least five passages in 1st Thessalonians:

1. 1 Thess 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead,[even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

2. 1 Thess 2:19 "For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?"

3. 1 Thess 3:13 "To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints."

4. 1 Thess 4:13 - 5:10:

Verse 13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Chapter 5

Verse 1 But of the times and the seasons (dispensations), brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (Tribulation and Second Advent) so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when THEY shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon THEM, as travail upon a woman with child; and THEY shall not escape.

4 But YE, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake YOU as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, (The Tribulation is God's Wrath upon the earth) but to obtain salvation (Greek "sodzo" or "safety") by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
5. 1 Thess 5:23 " And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Also, in Paul's second letter to the Thessalonian Church, in 2 Thess. 2:2, we find that someone had apparently written a letter to the Thessalonian Church saying that the "Day of Christ", the Rapture, was past, in other words, they had missed it, and now they were in the "Day of the Lord", or seven year Tribulation.

In 2 Thess 2:1-5, Paul is proving that they have not missed the Rapture and were now in the Tribulation, but that the Rapture is still future. Paul says:

1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (the Rapture of the Church).

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (Rapture of the Church) is at hand. ("at hand" is a Greek "perfect tense" verb, meaning the Rapture has already happened and is in the past - that would mean they missed the Rapture and are now in the Tribulation).

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come] (this phrase is not in the Greek, but is added by the translators. The Greek "ean may" = "that cannot happen"), except there come a falling away first, (THE Departure of the Church, first) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (and Antichrist revealed).

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

In the above verses, Paul tells them "that cannot happen", TWO things must occur before the "day of the Lord", or 7 year Tribulation, arrives, #1 "THE departure" first, and #2 "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

So, I believe Paul proves to the Church at Thessalonica that they are not in the "Tribulation", as someone had written them, because the Seven Year Tribulation cannot begin until the "Rapture" of the Church occurs and the "man of sin", the "Antichrist" is revealed.

If Paul had been referring to a "general falling away from the truth", it would have "proved" nothing to the Church at Thessalonica, because there was "apostasy" at the time, and there have been, and will continue to be great periods of falling away from the truth throughout the Church Age.

Every reference, that I find, to the "catching away" of the living saints, is described as "imminent", and can happen at any moment - there is no prophesy to be fulfilled before the Rapture can occur.

Think about it, if the "falling away" Paul refers to is a distinct period of "apostasy", of "falling away from the truth", and the world has now been through the "Dark Ages", when Christians were persecuted and Bibles were burned, then Paul would mean "THE period of falling from the truth" that is worse and more defined than the Dark Ages - and it would still be in the future, and the Rapture could not occur until it comes! That does not fit God's revealed plan for earth and mankind.

To me, "The Departure" of 2 Thess 2:3 is the exact opposite of "falling away" from God’s truth. This is in a context of the "Rapture of the Church", the "day of Christ", the Day when Jesus will return, in the air, below the highest mountain top, and catch the Church (all the born again Christians in the world) up into the air, and take them to the Third Heaven.

In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember when I was with you I taught you about these things? - and the subject of Paul's First Letter is "The Departure of the Church", from this earth to our Father in heaven, according to Jesus promises to us in Jn.14:1-4 and 28.

By: Bob Jones


So the word has the core meaning of departure and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as departure from the faith.

Translation History

The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) .[5] This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' " [6] Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of " departure" in 1611 A.D.?

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No good reason was ever given.


Quasar92
Falling away from believing Jesus the messiah. It is yet to come, but will happen during the first three years of the person's reign as the illegitimate King of Israel - the Antichrist. It was be so convincing to many in Christianity that the Jews were right all along, that a multitude will fall away from Christianity, stop believing that Jesus is the messiah.

Ties to the falling away in Hebrews 6:4-6.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves
the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
 
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Douggg

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Denying the teachings of the pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, is calling them all liars.
No, denying a pre-trib rapture (a misnomer because what is meant is a pre-seventieth week rapture) - is not equivalent to calling anyone a liar. It is have an different interpretation of what is written and the rationale derived by many that the rapture "has to happen" pre-trib (pre-seventieth week).

The rapture may happen pre-seventieth week or it may not. No-one is calling anyone a liar, by virtue of having a different opinion on the timing.

Conversely, the error many people make is to say that the rapture can't happen pre-seventieth week (pre-trib).
 
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Halbhh

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As the rapture could make sense, but the context of nearby wording tells us more about it. Just look --



Denying the teachings of the pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, is calling them all liars.

The following is a four post link on the Biblical teachings of the pre-trib rapture of the Church. Either field a Scripturally supported rebuke refuting any of it, or your views that are the false ones.

And where may I ask did you obtain qualificatios to teach the Bible?

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - a deeper walk...


Quasar92

Even if we feel provoked, I don't think we should use the accusatory language that "denying _____(doctrine) is 'calling God (or Paul or John, etc.) a liar'". On the basis of this instruction from Christ -- "So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you". Since I could sometimes communicate poorly, or leave something out, or fail to categorize one of my statements as just my own view, or whatever else, I do not want some other person to jump in and say that I am "calling God a liar". Right? That's really not an accusation I want thrown at me, unless I explicitly and directly literally called God a liar, which I cannot even conceive of doing. So, to follow the rule from Christ, I could not ever use that kind of accusation except that the person actually said plainly what I would accuse them of, etc. Just the hard to do thing of meeting someones anger (or whatever) with a gentle response, as Christ said to do, for which we all need aid at times, and the Lord's Prayer is one powerful aid we can invoke to help us.
 
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LastSeven

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Either field a Scripturally supported rebuke refuting any of it, or your views that are the false ones.
You can't put the onus on others to prove you wrong, if you haven't first proven yourself right. Much of what you post here is pure conjecture, unsupported by scripture, so for you to take the stance that your position is above all and absolutely true unless proven wrong, is annoying and absurd.

Instead of starting with a notion which you then support with scripture, start with scripture (and an open mind) and see where it leads. And if you can see the merit in that approach, then maybe you'll stop asking people to prove the worth of their opinions based on their "qualifications".
 
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Post like that makes me wonder why anybody would want to be in the company of Christians.

I'm sorry, but look at how foolish this pre-trib rapture stuff has become...

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

What you guys are saying is...

For that day shall not come,...

What day? The coming, the gathering, and the day of the Lord.

EXCEPT there come a departyre first...

"For the day of departure will not come until there is a departure.....foolishness.

In the above verses, Paul tells them "that cannot happen", TWO things must occur before the "day of the Lord", or 7 year Tribulation, arrives, #1 "THE departure" first, and #2 "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

What a fibrication. The Day of the LORD is the tribulation?
Just another reason that discourages anyone to convert to the God of Christianity.
This verse is telling christians NOT to believe in the pre trib rapture!..... but the Tribulation gathering Paul speaks of in 1:7.. paul doesnt mention nor is he waiting for the pre trib rapture..... but yet would one christian study why this says what it says and find out?
 
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Falling away from believing Jesus the messiah. It is yet to come, but will happen during the first three years of the person's reign as the illegitimate King of Israel - the Antichrist. It was be so convincing to many in Christianity that the Jews were right all along, that a multitude will fall away from Christianity, stop believing that Jesus is the messiah.

Ties to the falling away in Hebrews 6:4-6.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves
the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
The falling away is when the pre trib master is delayed and lukes good faithful servantcan stay the godly course (wise virgins) or fall away back to beating and drinking (foolish virgins) thats the decid8ng factor in falling away for him is when the master is delayed... then pauls tribulstion Jesus comes and cathces them.off guard and leaves tyem or cuts him to pieces....... thats the falling away.. 2 peter 3;3-4 the First thing in the Last days (7 years trib) scoffers will say Wheres the Promise (pre trib) of his coming? If Jesus came their would be no scoffers..... thats why matt mark luke starts out with wars pestilences and famine (rev 6) and the false christ and prophets because pre trib Jesus didnt show....
 
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The worlds scoffers Know the pre trib rapture is this promise, theyve all heard it before.....and as soon as the tribulation starts scoffers never seeing christians disappear say wheres that promised coming you christians told us about? Ofcourse they will hate you for it.... this is why christ ask, will I find any faith when I come.... not sure verse...

Many are called but few are choosen - those who lose faith will have been called but not choosen....if youve been told the called are all the world this isnt true..... or it would read All are called....
 
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This passage has been the subject of much controversy, as to whether this speaks of a period of great "apostasy", or whether it refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

I believe the KJV phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

The KJV English phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, is the one Greek word "apostasia", and its basic meaning is to "depart from" or "go away".

The Greek word "Apostasia" is a compound of two Greek words: "Apo" = "to move away", "stasis" means "standing or state", or "to stand".

Literally, from its basic definition, "apostasia" means "to go away from", or "depart", or "change state or standing from one state to another".

"Apostasia" was used in extra Biblical Greek literature to describe political revolt, or a "going away from the establishment" and in the Septuagint, or Greek Old Testament, when the Jews would "go away" from God to worship other gods.

"Apostasia" is only used one other time in the New Testament, in Acts 21:21 to describe "forsaking", or "going away from" the teachings of Moses.

"Apostasion", the noun form, appears in Matt 5:31, & 19:7, and Mark 10:4 where it describes a "writing of divorcement", or "papers that separate". (Again, so someone can go away).

"Apostasia" literally then means "to depart, or go away from", and to "go away from what" must be determined from the context.

So, what is the "context" of both the First and Second Epistle to the Church at Thessalonica? The sole subject and context of both epistles is the "Rapture", or "Departure" of the Church, or "the called out ones," and advice to the Church while we await the Return of Christ for the Church. The Second letter to the Church at Thessalonica appears to have been written by Paul to clear up misunderstandings about his First Letter. (2 Thess. 2:1-5)

The Greek word "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 also has the Greek article "the" in front of it, in the Greek text, which makes it, not a general "going away", or "departure", but "The Departure", a special EVENT, that the reader is expected to already know about.

In other words, the use of the article "the" with "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 indicates that Paul expects the Thessalonian Christians to already understand that this is the title of an event, and he expects them to already know what it means.

Had the Apostle Paul already taught the Thessalonians about an "EVENT" that could be described as a "departure", or "going away"? Absolutely, yes.

Paul had already taught the Thessalonian Church about the EVENT, of the Catching Away and "Departure" of the Church in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember? When I was with you I taught you about these things?

I don't see where Paul taught them at all about "a falling away from the truth" in his first letter, but he taught them about the Rapture of the church in at least five passages in 1st Thessalonians:

1. 1 Thess 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead,[even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

2. 1 Thess 2:19 "For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?"

3. 1 Thess 3:13 "To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints."

4. 1 Thess 4:13 - 5:10:

Verse 13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Chapter 5

Verse 1 But of the times and the seasons (dispensations), brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (Tribulation and Second Advent) so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when THEY shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon THEM, as travail upon a woman with child; and THEY shall not escape.

4 But YE, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake YOU as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, (The Tribulation is God's Wrath upon the earth) but to obtain salvation (Greek "sodzo" or "safety") by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
5. 1 Thess 5:23 " And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Also, in Paul's second letter to the Thessalonian Church, in 2 Thess. 2:2, we find that someone had apparently written a letter to the Thessalonian Church saying that the "Day of Christ", the Rapture, was past, in other words, they had missed it, and now they were in the "Day of the Lord", or seven year Tribulation.

In 2 Thess 2:1-5, Paul is proving that they have not missed the Rapture and were now in the Tribulation, but that the Rapture is still future. Paul says:

1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (the Rapture of the Church).

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (Rapture of the Church) is at hand. ("at hand" is a Greek "perfect tense" verb, meaning the Rapture has already happened and is in the past - that would mean they missed the Rapture and are now in the Tribulation).

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come] (this phrase is not in the Greek, but is added by the translators. The Greek "ean may" = "that cannot happen"), except there come a falling away first, (THE Departure of the Church, first) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (and Antichrist revealed).

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

In the above verses, Paul tells them "that cannot happen", TWO things must occur before the "day of the Lord", or 7 year Tribulation, arrives, #1 "THE departure" first, and #2 "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

So, I believe Paul proves to the Church at Thessalonica that they are not in the "Tribulation", as someone had written them, because the Seven Year Tribulation cannot begin until the "Rapture" of the Church occurs and the "man of sin", the "Antichrist" is revealed.

If Paul had been referring to a "general falling away from the truth", it would have "proved" nothing to the Church at Thessalonica, because there was "apostasy" at the time, and there have been, and will continue to be great periods of falling away from the truth throughout the Church Age.

Every reference, that I find, to the "catching away" of the living saints, is described as "imminent", and can happen at any moment - there is no prophesy to be fulfilled before the Rapture can occur.

Think about it, if the "falling away" Paul refers to is a distinct period of "apostasy", of "falling away from the truth", and the world has now been through the "Dark Ages", when Christians were persecuted and Bibles were burned, then Paul would mean "THE period of falling from the truth" that is worse and more defined than the Dark Ages - and it would still be in the future, and the Rapture could not occur until it comes! That does not fit God's revealed plan for earth and mankind.

To me, "The Departure" of 2 Thess 2:3 is the exact opposite of "falling away" from God’s truth. This is in a context of the "Rapture of the Church", the "day of Christ", the Day when Jesus will return, in the air, below the highest mountain top, and catch the Church (all the born again Christians in the world) up into the air, and take them to the Third Heaven.

In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember when I was with you I taught you about these things? - and the subject of Paul's First Letter is "The Departure of the Church", from this earth to our Father in heaven, according to Jesus promises to us in Jn.14:1-4 and 28.

By: Bob Jones


So the word has the core meaning of departure and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as departure from the faith.

Translation History

The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) .[5] This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' " [6] Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of " departure" in 1611 A.D.?

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No good reason was ever given.


Quasar92

By you own definition----fall away from, departure from, etc---has nothing to do with being whisked away from in bodily form, but a leaving of a way of thinking. Nothing in your lengthy statement is any indicator of a physical body leaving this world, but of a departure, a leaving of ideological ways.
 
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Quasar92

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Debunked.

Here is the elaboration on 2 Thes. 2:3 in the Wycliffe translation:

3 [That] No man deceive you in any manner. For but dissension come first [For no but departing away, or dissension, shall come first], and the man of sin be showed, the son of perdition

Note that dissension (consistent with apostasy, separation, schism) is the elaboration. Rapture is unseen.

Departing/departure means departure from the truth i.e. apostasy, not rapture; falling away, not flying away.

Wycliffe himself identified antichrist as the papacy, at whose hands the true church was suffering. He unquestionably therefore did not believe in a pretrib rapture.


And from Calvin's Geneva Study Bible:

Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Calvin also identified antichrist as the papacy, and thus did not believe in a pretrib rapture.
Same with Tyndale. He was martyred by the papacy.
Same with Cranmer. He too was martyred by the papacy.
Coverdale was an associate of Tyndale's, and of like persuasion.
Beza was also of like persuasion.

There is no Reformer who defined the word as anything other than apostasy.

A definition of "discessio," the word used in the Vulgate, is found at this site.

Included near the end is a specific ecclesiological subdefinition:
"In the church, a separation, schism (eccl. Lat.), Vulg. Act. 21, 21; id. 2 Thes. 2, 3."

Occurrences are cited as being Acts 21:21 and 2 Thes. 2:3.

Letting Scripture interpret Scripture, the use of the word in Acts 21:21 is translated "forsake," which is fully consistent with the subdefinition above, and has nothing to do with rapture.

Apostacia: What Modern Greeks say about "Apostacia" in 2 Thess 2:3.

Excerpt: "I could find no debate among Greek speaking Christians on how to interpret this verse. They all interpret "apostacia" in 2 Thess 2:3 to mean "apostacy"."

Does Apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Refer to a ‘Physical Departure’ (i.e. the Rapture)?

2 Thess 2:3 in the Early Church Writings; How early Greek, Latin and Aramaic speaking Christians interpreted "Apostacia"/"Apostacy

The Latin Influence on 2 Thess 2:3


Following is a response from the New American Standard Bible (NASB) translators at the Lockman foundation to a question regarding the validity of "rapture" rather than "apostasy" in 2 Thess. 2:3:

The online article cited offers arguments which are incorrect. The verb that apostasia comes from has several meanings, but the main meanings include "revolt," "desert," "fall away," and even "become a backslider." The noun apostasia is not automatically capable of having all of the meanings that the verb does. The way the meaning of a word is determined is by examining how it is used, and apostasia is consistently used of revolting, rebellion, and abandoning a belief system. Aside from 2 Thess 2:3 it is only found in Acts 21:21 in the New Testament, where it is used of abandoning the Law of Moses. In the Greek translation of the Old Testament, it occurs in Josh 22:22, 2 Chr 29:19, and 1 Macc 2:15, and in each verse it refers to apostasy or rebellion.

It is interesting that the writer also cites Liddell and Scott (now LSJM) in support, observing that the first definitions are "defection" and "revolt." He fails to mention that LSJM immediately add, "especially in a religious sense, rebellion against God, apostasy," and then go on to cite not only Josh 22:22 but also 2 Thess 2:3. So what the writer states is simply a misleading presentation of the evidence. The argument about the translation shift is irrelevant in view of the evidence for the correct meaning, and this argument is also questionable. "Departure" seems not to have meant simply to leave a place, but to separate from someone or something. For these and other reasons the NASB translators are confident about the meaning "apostasy" in 2 Thess 2:3.



"Futurism fantasizes; history realizes."


You have debunked nothing at all with your above rhetoric, I have proven you to be in error over, through the translation history of 2 Thess.2:3 previously. The following excerpt of the OP explains the issue clearly, as follows:

>>>This passage has been the subject of much controversy, as to whether this speaks of a period of great "apostasy", or whether it refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

I believe the KJV phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

The KJV English phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, is the one Greek word "apostasia", and its basic meaning is to "depart from" or "go away".

The Greek word "Apostasia" is a compound of two Greek words: "Apo" = "to move away", "stasis" means "standing or state", or "to stand".

Literally, from its basic definition, "apostasia" means "to go away from", or "depart", or "change state or standing from one state to another".

"Apostasia" was used in extra Biblical Greek literature to describe political revolt, or a "going away from the establishment" and in the Septuagint, or Greek Old Testament, when the Jews would "go away" from God to worship other gods.

"Apostasia" is only used one other time in the New Testament, in Acts 21:21 to describe "forsaking", or "going away from" the teachings of Moses.

"Apostasion", the noun form, appears in Matt 5:31, & 19:7, and Mark 10:4 where it describes a "writing of divorcement", or "papers that separate". (Again, so someone can go away).

"Apostasia" literally then means "to depart, or go away from", and to "go away from what" must be determined from the context.

So, what is the "context" of both the First and Second Epistle to the Church at Thessalonica? The sole subject and context of both epistles is the "Rapture", or "Departure" of the Church, or "the called out ones," and advice to the Church while we await the Return of Christ for the Church. The Second letter to the Church at Thessalonica appears to have been written by Paul to clear up misunderstandings about his First Letter. (2 Thess. 2:1-5)

The Greek word "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 also has the Greek article "the" in front of it, in the Greek text, which makes it, not a general "going away", or "departure", but "The Departure", a special EVENT, that the reader is expected to already know about.

In other words, the use of the article "the" with "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 indicates that Paul expects the Thessalonian Christians to already understand that this is the title of an event, and he expects them to already know what it means.

Had the Apostle Paul already taught the Thessalonians about an "EVENT" that could be described as a "departure", or "going away"? Absolutely, yes.

Paul had already taught the Thessalonian Church about the EVENT, of the Catching Away and "Departure" of the Church in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember? When I was with you I taught you about these things?

I don't see where Paul taught them at all about "a falling away from the truth" in his first letter, but he taught them about the Rapture of the church in at least five passages in 1st Thessalonians:

1. 1 Thess 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead,[even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."<<<


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You have debunked nothing at all with your above rhetoric, I have proven you to be in error over, through the translation history of 2 Thess.2:3 previously. The following excerpt of the OP explains the issue clearly, as follows:

>>>This passage has been the subject of much controversy, as to whether this speaks of a period of great "apostasy", or whether it refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

I believe the KJV phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, refers to the "departure", or "Rapture" of the Church.

The KJV English phrase "falling away", in 2 Thess. 2:3, is the one Greek word "apostasia", and its basic meaning is to "depart from" or "go away".

The Greek word "Apostasia" is a compound of two Greek words: "Apo" = "to move away", "stasis" means "standing or state", or "to stand".

Literally, from its basic definition, "apostasia" means "to go away from", or "depart", or "change state or standing from one state to another".

"Apostasia" was used in extra Biblical Greek literature to describe political revolt, or a "going away from the establishment" and in the Septuagint, or Greek Old Testament, when the Jews would "go away" from God to worship other gods.

"Apostasia" is only used one other time in the New Testament, in Acts 21:21 to describe "forsaking", or "going away from" the teachings of Moses.

"Apostasion", the noun form, appears in Matt 5:31, & 19:7, and Mark 10:4 where it describes a "writing of divorcement", or "papers that separate". (Again, so someone can go away).

"Apostasia" literally then means "to depart, or go away from", and to "go away from what" must be determined from the context.

So, what is the "context" of both the First and Second Epistle to the Church at Thessalonica? The sole subject and context of both epistles is the "Rapture", or "Departure" of the Church, or "the called out ones," and advice to the Church while we await the Return of Christ for the Church. The Second letter to the Church at Thessalonica appears to have been written by Paul to clear up misunderstandings about his First Letter. (2 Thess. 2:1-5)

The Greek word "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 also has the Greek article "the" in front of it, in the Greek text, which makes it, not a general "going away", or "departure", but "The Departure", a special EVENT, that the reader is expected to already know about.

In other words, the use of the article "the" with "apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2:3 indicates that Paul expects the Thessalonian Christians to already understand that this is the title of an event, and he expects them to already know what it means.

Had the Apostle Paul already taught the Thessalonians about an "EVENT" that could be described as a "departure", or "going away"? Absolutely, yes.

Paul had already taught the Thessalonian Church about the EVENT, of the Catching Away and "Departure" of the Church in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember? When I was with you I taught you about these things?

I don't see where Paul taught them at all about "a falling away from the truth" in his first letter, but he taught them about the Rapture of the church in at least five passages in 1st Thessalonians:

1. 1 Thess 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead,[even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."<<<


Quasar92
Go talk to the Reformers, the Greeks, the NASB translators at the Lockman Foundation, and every other English Bible translator in existence.
 
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Go talk to the Reformers, the Greeks, the NASB translators at the Lockman Foundation, and every other English Bible translator in existence.


The sources for what I post here come directly from the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles. The following is the precise reason for what Paul taught in 2 Thess.2:3. The epistles of Paul, in 1 Thess.4:13-18 and 2 Thess.2:1-8, are about the rapture of the Church, There is nothing in either passages that has a single thing in it about any falling away of the Church, except for the blatant mistranslation of the verse


Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years.

1 Thes.4:13-18:
The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

"We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.

"According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.

Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23, when and as each believer dies. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in 1 Thess.4:16.
Because they had all been raised once before, previously as recorded abpve.

"For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all those who previously died in Him], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

"Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, [The theme of the passage consisting of verses 1-8 - a direct reference to 1 Thess.4:17] we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In vs 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In vs 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.


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The sources that the Reformers, Greeks, and English Bible translators used and use come from the same teachings.


The Greek word APOSTASIA" iin the context of the two epistles of Paul, of 1st and 2nd Thess, mean TO DEPART or DEPARTURE. From another source confirming it.

The true meaning of the Greek word apostasia in II Thessalonians 2:3 cannot be overlooked or ignored any longer by the Christendom faith; we have a spiritual obligation to search the Scriptures as we study it in its context. One must understand that the translators of Scriptures were not the writers neither the ones who received the revelation through the words given them. In other words, they were only translators. The translator cannot accurately interpret the true sentiments of an expression found in a language which is original only to that culture. Language is very much entangled in the culture of the people. An example of it is the idiom style found in every language, which is an accepted phrase construction, or expression contrary to the usual patterns of the

language, or having a meaning different from the literal(Webster Dictionary). The Word of God has come to us with interpretation and choices of certain words that are not always clear to our understanding, and sometimes not agreeing with the context as in II Thessalonians chapter two: But relative to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to meet Him, we beg you, brethren, not to allow our minds to be quickly unsettled or disturbed or kept excited or alarmed, whether it be by some revelation of Spirit or by word or by letter from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has arrived and is here. Let no one deceive or beguile you in any way, for that day will not come except the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, who is the son of doom. . . Do you not recollect that when I was still with you, I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining him; it is so that he may be manifested in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work in the world,[but it is ] restrained only until he who restrains is taken out of the way, and then the

lawless one will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by His appearing at His coming (vs. 1-3, 5- 8). This chapter would be very assuring in the hope of our salvation from the tribulation if the word, apostasy was translated in agreement with the context of the chapter. The Greek word apostasy is a compound word, “apo” –from and “istemi”- stand. So we see here that the fundamental meaning is “away from or departure”. Let’s put these verses in perspective in the order of events which Paul mentioned using the word departure in verse three and we will see that the subsequent verses, 6-8 will agree, establishing the same order of events. “The departure Paul previously referred to was ‘our being gathered to Him’ (v.1) and

our being ‘caught up’ with the Lord and the raptured dead in the clouds “( I Thessalonians 4:17) an insight from Scripture clearly opening our eyes of understanding by Dr. Gordon R. Lewis. Allan MacRae, president of Faith Theological Seminary in a letter to Schuyler English has said the following concerning this matter: I wonder if you have noticed the striking parallel between this verse and verses 7-8, a little further down. According to your suggestion verse 3 mentions the departure of the church as coming first, and then tells of the revealing of the man of sin. In verses 7 and 8 we find the dentical sequence. Verse 7 tells of the removal of the Church; verse 8 says: "And then shall that Wicked be revealed." Thus close examination of the passage shows an inner unity and coherence, if we take the word apostasia in its general sense of

"departure," while a superficial examination would easily lead to an erroneous interpretation as "falling away" because of the proximity of the mention of the man of sin.[11] Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. So we have here in verse three the departure of the church before the Lawlessness one is revealed; and in verses seven and eight Paul repeats the sequence, the removal of the church and the revealing of the wicked one. When the word apostasy is used in the meaning of “falling away” it breaks the connection in its meaning. In the History of the translation of the word apostasia we learn from Dr. Thomas Ice the following: The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun

as either "departure" or "departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608).[5] This supports the notion that the word truly means "departure." In fact, Jerome's Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of a.d. 400 renders apostasia with the "word discessio, meaning 'departure.'"[6] Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure"? Here is the summary of the ways apostasia means rapture in II Thessalonians 2:3 from Online Bible Study: 1. The parallel between verse 3 and 7-8, showing the antichrist is revealed after the rapture. 2. Words With Similar Definitions: methormizô, remove from one anchorage to another 3. Words With Similar Definitions: metex-anistamai, Pass., move from one place to another 4. Apostasia is translated as "Dissecto" in Latin, which has a meaning of a "spacial departure". 5. Apostasia is translated as "departure" in many Bibles. 6. Liddell and Scott Dictionary authors note

Apostasia is translated as "spacial departure" in one case in the 6th century. 7. metatithemi, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both mean "to fall away" 8. metatithemi, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both mean "to depart" 9. metatithemi, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both signify "change" as the rapture is a change. 10. metathesis, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both (in the word it's derrived from, aphistemi) can both mean "to remove". 11. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, and harpazo (rapture in 1 Thess 4:17), can both mean "to take" 12. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, and harpazo, can both mean "to seize" 13. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, and harpazo, can both mean "to snatch away" 14. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, also carries the meaning "to marry, take a wife" which is a strong rapture parallel

For the rest of the article:

http://www.lightfromtheword.org/upload/Apostasia or Departure.pdf



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