What does "except there come a falling away first" in 2 Thess. 2:3 mean?

[Quasar92]

This doesn't make too much sense to me -- KJV translators were "overzealous RCC scribes"??!!??

The reason for it is in the context you are puzzled about. Because of the RCC teachings of Amillennialism.


Quasar92

 

[Hal A Peno]

thg

 

[Quasar92]

Debunked.

Meaningless opinion without a shred of Scriptural support to verify it by.


Quasar92

 

[Hal A Peno]

dfh

 

[Douggg]

Meaning what?


Quasar92

Meaning Barrack Obama was in different roles at different times - and was not Senator Obama when he was in the role as President Obama. It is erroneous to call President Obama - Senator Obama.

It is an analogy. To show you the error you are making to always calling the person the Antichrist.

Q, if you are referring to the person after he has become the beast - call him the beast - not the Antichrist.

If the person is in the little horn role, before he becomes the King of Israel, don't call him the Antichrist - but the little horn.

The person is only the Antichrist while he is in the role of being the King of Israel (illegitimate).

 

[2Timothy2:15]

By: Bob Jones

This is "Bob Jones" the guy from IHOP?

 

[2Timothy2:15]

FYI, what I cut and paste comes from the data bank of Christian material I have compiled over the past 20 years at my website. Most of which comes from my own composition. In

The entire OP comes from someone else, not from your own composition. At least be honest, that is a integrity issue that discredits you from the get go.

Main content of the OP can be found here, word for word verbatim.

apostasia, falling away, the departure, apostasia rapture, Bob Jones

 

[Douggg]

The entire OP comes from someone else, not from your own composition. At least be honest, that is a integrity issue that discredits you from the get go.

Main content of the OP can be found here, word for word verbatim.

apostasia, falling away, the departure, apostasia rapture, Bob Jones

Somebody's doing their homework. Maybe Q is Bob Jones? Or maybe Bob Jones is quoting Q ? Or they are both quoting someone else?

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Somebody's doing their homework. Maybe Q is Bob Jones? Or maybe Bob Jones is quoting Q ? Or they are both quoting someone else?

I posed the question because I wanted to give him a chance to explain. There is a well know Bob Jones who is not alive anymore, so I am fairly certain he is not that Bob Jones. Not that Bob Jones is not a common name . Let's wait as see what Q says...

 

[Anto9us]

I am not a preterist just because I believe Christ's prophecy of "not one stone left upon another" was fulfilled in 70 AD

I am not a pre-tribber or a post-tribber just because I believe the "falling away" in 2 Thess 2 has not happenned yet

I know nothing of "Bob Jones" other than I aint him

 

[Quasar92]

From my good brother Daniel Speck...
Exploring Prophetic Mysteries

With Daniel Speck 8.16.16 Home

The Long List of Pre-Tribulation Rapture Fabrications

“But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.” Matthew 15:6-9, Isaiah 29:13

The list of unbiblical doctrines fabricated by Dispensationalists is long and should disturb anyone who truly believes in Sola Scriptura. These are just some of the many Pre-Tribulation Rapture and Invisible Return false doctrines found nowhere in the Bible.

1. The Rapture will occur before the start of the Tribulation

2. Jesus will come back invisibly and only believers will see Him

3. The Rapture will be instant and invisible

4. The Church will not be here during the Tribulation

5. Christ’s Olivet prophecies were not written to the Church

6. II Thessalonians 2 says the Rapture will precede the antichrist

7. The Seven Churches of Revelation are seven church ages

8. The church at Philadelphia is solely the Church of the Last Days

9. John’s entrance through the open door is the Rapture

10. The 144,000 are evangelists

11. The Rapture is not the Second Coming

12. The Great Multitude that comes out of the Tribulation is not the Church

13. The Tribulation is the Day of the Lord

14. The Church and Israel cannot both be here during Daniel’s seventh week

15. There are seven Dispensations taught in the Bible

16. The Seventh Trumpet is not the last trumpet of I Corinthians 15

17. I Corinthians 15 instant transformation is an instant rapture

18. The prophetic types predict a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

19. The Mystery of God is not Christ and the Church

20. The First Resurrection of Revelation 20 is not the I Thessalonians 4 resurrection

21. The seven seals and seven trumpets are judgments

22. The Tribulation is the wrath of God

23. The Seven Bowls of Gods’ Wrath is part of the Tribulation

24. The Church will not come under persecution by the Antichrist

25. The Church will not be here when the mark of the beast is instituted

The list of Last Day prophecy doctrines that pre-Tribulationists don't understand is equally long and disturbing

1. What the Seven Seal Scroll is

2. What the Seven Seals are

3. Who the Great Multitude are

4. Who the 144,000 are

5. What the Seven Trumpets are

6. What the Seven Bowls of God's Wrath are

7. Who the Seven Churches are

8. Who the Philadelphia church represents

9. What the Mystery of God is

10. What the Seventh Trumpet is

11. What the Last Trumpet is

12. What and when the First Resurrection is

13. Who the Olivet Discourse is written to

14. What happens in the twinkling of an eye

15. When the Rapture will take place

16. What the Little Scroll is

17. Who will populate the Messianic age

18. The Tribulation is not wrath or judgment

19. What is the relationship between the Church and Israel

20. What and when the Church age is

21. How many dispensations are really taught in the Bible

22. What the Day of the Lord is

23. What and when the Second Coming is

24. Who the Restrainer is

25. Who Matthew 24 was written to

26. What "every eye shall see Him" means

27. Who will be persecuted by the beast

28. Who the elect, saints or brethren are

29. What "this generation" means

What the Bible actually says about the Second Coming and Rapture and how these false teaching contradict the Word of God

1. Jesus said He would return to gather the elect from the air after the Tribulation. Christians are called the elect (chosen) throughout the New Testament. Matthew 24:29-31, Romans 8:33.

2. The Rapture will not occur until after the Last Trumpet sounds. The last Trumpet in the Bible is the Seventh Trumpet at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 11:15-18). A great trumpet sounds at the coming of Christ in Matthew 24:31. If this is not the Rapture Trumpet, then I Corinthians 15:51 is wrong.

3. The First Resurrection will not happen until after the saints resist the mark and image of the beast. Since there can be only one First Resurrection, the Revelation 20 resurrection has to be the same as the resurrection of the dead in Christ just before the Rapture. Revelation 20:4-7 is called the First Resurrection. I Thessalonians 4 says the dead in Christ will rise first just before the rapture. Revelation 20:4-6 is describing who will reign with Christ during the Millennium. This resurrection is a parenthetical event that happened earlier but the rewards for it are described in this later chapter because they were now being awarded. Revelation 20:1-5, I Thessalonians 4:16-17.

4. The Lord Jesus will not come and we will not be gathered to Him unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed first, both Tribulation events. Matthew 24:10, II Thessalonians 2:1-4.

5. Rahab, a prophetic type of the Church, was not taken out until after the seventh trumpet of the seventh day of the battle of Jericho, just as the Church will not be taken out of the world until after the seventh trumpet of the seventh seal. Joshua 6:20-23.

6. Joel 2 says the cosmic disasters of the Sixth Seal will occur before the Day of the Lord so the Tribulation cannot be the Day of the Lord as pre-Tribulation advocates claim. Joel 2:31, II Thessalonians 2:1-4, Revelation 6:12.

7. The Bible never says the rapture is always imminent as pre-Tribulationist teach. Suddenness is not imminence. Imminent means something is about to happen. Nothing can be imminent for 2,000 years. Only when “all these things” of the Tribulation begin to take place will the return of Christ and the Rapture be truly imminent. Matthew 24:33, Luke 21:31-13, Mark 13:29-36.

8. Darbyists teach that because the name "Church" is not used after Revelation 3, this proves it will not be here during the Tribulation. The name “Jew” isn’t used after chapter 3 either, but that doesn’t mean the Jews will not be present during the Tribulation. They certainly will be. The great multitude of Gentile believers in Revelation 7:9-17 is a perfect description of the Church.

9. An invisible Coming is not Biblical either. The Scriptures clearly state that every eye will see Him. Acts 1 says Jesus will come in the same way as He left: visibly and in the clouds. His Coming will be seen across the entire sky from east to west. Revelation 1:7, Acts 1:9-11, Matthew 24:27.

10. Another falsehood is teaching the Tribulation is the wrath and judgment of God. The Tribulation is called a test (Revelation 3:10) but it is never called wrath or judgment anywhere in the Scriptures. The wrath of God in poured only after Jesus comes on the clouds to gather the Church. The Seven Bowls of God's Wrath are not poured out until after the Seventh Trumpet, in fact don't occur until five chapters later.

11. The pre-Tribulation rapture is not in the Bible anywhere. There is not a single verse of Scripture which states there will be a pre-Tribulation rapture or an invisible return or that the Church will not go through the Tribulation.
____________________________
Check out his site...

2030 Second Coming

The teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, that refute you:

Beginning with Mt.24:31:
[/B] And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out.

Lk.21:36:
"Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years.

1 Thes.4:13-18:
The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

"We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.

"According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.

Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures.

"For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

"Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In vs 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In vs 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.


Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!


The difference between the Second Coming of Christ and the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice...eenTheRapt.pdf


Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.


The pre-trib rapture of the Church views posted above fully endorsed by the following:

1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.

Chuck Missler, Koinonia House, Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Zola Levitt, Levitt's Ministries, Miles Weiss, Zola Levitt's Ministries, Moishe Rosen, Jew's For Jesus Org., David Bickner, Jew's For Jesus Org., Mitch Glaser, His Chosen People Minisries Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Haye, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV ministry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker and Dr. Norbert Lieth.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

Meaning Barrack Obama was in different roles at different times - and was not Senator Obama when he was in the role as President Obama. It is erroneous to call President Obama - Senator Obama.

It is an analogy. To show you the error you are making to always calling the person the Antichrist.

Q, if you are referring to the person after he has become the beast - call him the beast - not the Antichrist.

If the person is in the little horn role, before he becomes the King of Israel, don't call him the Antichrist - but the little horn.

The person is only the Antichrist while he is in the role of being the King of Israel (illegitimate).

The Scriptural exegesis togetheer with the hermeneutics of my posts are not "in error" as you claim. Opinion is meaningless without Scriptural support to verify it with.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

Your first paragraph,

I'm going to correct you again, your first paragraph debunked......

The word 'elect' in Mathew 24:31 doesn't refers to Jews. Pre-trib deceivers do that because in the text, Jesus clearly indicates the gathering occurs AFTER the tribulation. To make pre-trib fit, they had to remove CHRISTIANS entirely from the text and tell you the chapter is meant only for Jews. However, they've been caught in a lie they can't overcome!

To a pre-tribber who accepts the fabrication the 'elect is ISRAEL, they say that since Jesus was speaking only to Jews, the gathering Jesus is talking about occurring at the end of tribulation is meant only for Jews. Luke wasn't a Jew! They've fabricated "another rapture" and another return of Christ to counter that contradiction, and created a host of other contradictions in the perversion process.

We know that the 'elect' always refers to Christians in the New Testament. The word elect is the same word as chosen and in every verse I looked at it always referred to Christians and a few times to angels, and once to Christ. It NEVER refers to Islael in the NT.
The word elect is 'eklektos' which means...

1) picked out, chosen
a) chosen by
God,
1) to obtain salvation through Christ
a)
Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
2) the
Messiah in called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians

The word elect, chosen-'eklektos,' is used in the following verses in the NT where it always refers to Christians... whether Jew or gentile!

Here are a few examples how the word for 'elect' in Mathew 24 is used elsewhere.

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Check also...

Matthew 20:16, John 13:18, 15:16, Acts 15:22, 15:25, Romans 8:33, 16:13, 1 Corinthians 1:27-28, Ephesians 1:4, Colossians 3:12, James 2:5, 2 Timothy 2:10, Titus 1:1, 1 Peter 1:2, 2:9, 5:13, Revelation 17:14.

If God wanted the elect of Mathew 24 to mean Jews, He would have used a different Greek word. Probably this one...

1445. Hebraios heb-rah'-yos from
1443; a Hebræan (i.e. Hebrew) or Jew:--Hebrew.

Hal A Peno

[/QUOTE]


Hal A Peno wrote: "I'm going to correct you again, your first paragraph debunked......

The word 'elect' in Mathew 24:31 doesn't refers to Jews. Pre-trib deceivers do that because in the text, Jesus clearly indicates the gathering occurs AFTER the tribulation. To make pre-trib fit, they had to remove CHRISTIANS entirely from the text and tell you the chapter is meant only for Jews. However, they've been caught in a lie they can't overcome!"

You are not "correcting me," but rather, you are expressing your unsupportable, meaningless opinion. Review the statement by Jesus in the following refuting you:

Mt.10:5 "These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel."

Mt.15:24 "He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

The entire OP comes from someone else, not from your own composition. At least be honest, that is a integrity issue that discredits you from the get go.

Main content of the OP can be found here, word for word verbatim.

apostasia, falling away, the departure, apostasia rapture, Bob Jones

FTI, credit for the OP was properly given to Bob Jones. His info comes from the same sources those of mine do, posted on my own website for the past 10 years!


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

I am not a preterist just because I believe Christ's prophecy of "not one stone left upon another" was fulfilled in 70 AD

I am not a pre-tribber or a post-tribber just because I believe the "falling away" in 2 Thess 2 has not happenned yet

I know nothing of "Bob Jones" other than I aint him

With that statement, you are quite right. However the "falling away" you allude to was for the first 14 centuries, rendered "departure", in 2 Thess.2:3" Confirmed in verse 7, with, "...he is taken out of the way." The "he," being the one body of Christ, His Church, in which the reference is to the rapture of the Church.


Quasar02

 

[Douggg]

The Scriptural exegesis togetheer with the hermeneutics of my posts are not "in error" as you claim. Opinion is meaningless without Scriptural support to verify it with.


Quasar92

If you refer to the beast in Revelation 13, as the Antichrist - you are in error.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

FTI, credit for the OP was properly given to Bob Jones. His info comes from the same sources those of mine do, posted on my own website for the past 10 years!


Quasar92

That is your website rapturenotes.com ? And you did not answer my question about Bob Jones.

 

[jgr]

However the "falling away" you allude to was for the first 14 centuries, rendered "departure", in 2 Thess.2:3

Departure as rapture, or departure at all, is not found in a single English Bible translation in existence.

NASB translators' comments on the article which attempts to rewrite Holy Scripture in 2 Thess. 2:3:

The online article cited offers arguments which are incorrect. The verb that apostasia comes from has several meanings, but the main meanings include "revolt," "desert," "fall away," and even "become a backslider." The noun apostasia is not automatically capable of having all of the meanings that the verb does. The way the meaning of a word is determined is by examining how it is used, and apostasia is consistently used of revolting, rebellion, and abandoning a belief system. Aside from 2 Thess 2:3 it is only found in Acts 21:21 in the New Testament, where it is used of abandoning the Law of Moses. In the Greek translation of the Old Testament, it occurs in Josh 22:22, 2 Chr 29:19, and 1 Macc 2:15, and in each verse it refers to apostasy or rebellion.

It is interesting that the writer also cites Liddell and Scott (now LSJM) in support, observing that the first definitions are "defection" and "revolt." He fails to mention that LSJM immediately add, "especially in a religious sense, rebellion against God, apostasy," and then go on to cite not only Josh 22:22 but also 2 Thess 2:3. So what the writer states is simply a misleading presentation of the evidence. The argument about the translation shift is irrelevant in view of the evidence for the correct meaning, and this argument is also questionable. "Departure" seems not to have meant simply to leave a place, but to separate from someone or something. For these and other reasons the NASB translators are confident about the meaning "apostasy" in 2 Thess 2:3.


The article makes the following claim:

"The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either departure or departing."

Yet not a single quote of 2 Thess. 2:3 from any of the seven Bible version translations is provided.

There is thus insufficient evidence to support the claim.

 

[Hal A Peno]

xtfgh

 

[Quasar92]

If you refer to the beast in Revelation 13, as the Antichrist - you are in error.

FYI, the beast out of the sea is the Antichrist, Satan will give his throne, power and great authority to. The beast out of the earth, is the False Prophet. As recorded below:

The Beast out of the Sea

1The dragona stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. 4People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”

5The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.b

9Whoever has ears, let them hear.

10“If anyone is to go into captivity,

into captivity they will go.

If anyone is to be killedc with the sword,

with the sword they will be killed.”d

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.

The beast out of the earth

11Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

18This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.e That number is 666.

Review the following:

http://www.prca.org/resources/sermons/reading/reformed-witness-hour/item/4735-antichrist-the-beast-from-the-sea


Where to find the beast/Antichrist in the Bible, Satan will give his throne, power and great authority to:

1 Jn.2:18 is the only place in the Bible where the term Antichrist is found. But he is referred to by a number of different terms as recorded below, and where to find them:

1. He is the "little horn" in Dan.7:8;

2. He is known as a "stern faced king, in Dan.8:23.

3. He is all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27.

4. He is the willful king in Dan.11:36-45.

5. In 2 Thess.2:3, 4, he is referred to as "the man of lawlessness."

6. In 2 Thess.2:8-9, he is referred to as the "lawless one."

7. In Rev.11:7; 17:3, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 16 and 17, he is called the beast.

8. In Rev.13:1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, he is called the beast out of the Sea.

The beast out of the earth in Rev.13:11-17 is the False Prophet and the activity he is involved in:

11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name"

When Jesus returns in His second coming with His armies from heaven, He will defeat both beasts, the Antichrist and the False Prophet, Throw them in the lake of fire, and destroy the armies of the ten horns/nations allied to them, recorded in Rev.19:11-21.



Quasar92